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Author Topic: The case of the Russian Scammer.  (Read 7999 times)
kiba
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February 19, 2011, 07:34:14 PM
 #21

So we have a little court thing going on here.  Wink

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Matt Corallo
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February 19, 2011, 07:58:23 PM
 #22

Few screenshots that I want to see:
  • the screenshot confirming the link between tolsi.ru[at]gmail.com
    (which is owned by Tolsi) and bitcoin.backup[at]gmail.com or katyabor1[at]mail.ru
  • the ip address that was used by Hummer (btw he use the different time zone in the forums profile)
  • and also the date and the time when the Tolsi's wallet file was sent to the address of the fraudster
Sadly, the password both of the accounts has been changed.  I have no further evidence to submit.  You can have a look at the #bitcoin-dev logs if you want more info.  The IP Address was the one, however that appeared in the Gmail logs (how else would I have Tolsi's IP Address, I live in Germany). 
Frankly I dont care if it was Tolsi or just someone who wanted very badly to frame him (he does have tor running on his router, maybe an endpoint?). 
In any case I doubt anyone spent that much effort to frame him. 

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February 19, 2011, 08:01:45 PM
 #23

In any case I doubt anyone spent that much effort to frame him.
Yes, but Tolsi said that he got a spam message. It is enough to gain access to his email.

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February 19, 2011, 09:20:17 PM
 #24

Really, congratulations for all this catch-the-scammer task force! Amazing!

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February 19, 2011, 10:32:49 PM
 #25

Why are so many Russians dishonest? Is it because of all those years of communism, a system built on lies? Or does it go deeper in the Russian culture? Are Russian children even taught by their parents not to lie? Are they taught sayings like "honesty is the best policy", and stories like George Washington and the cherry tree?

Hey! Vladimir Ilyich Lenin lied only once - when he broke vase in his childhood. And then he was very ashamed.

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February 19, 2011, 10:58:29 PM
 #26


Maybe the years of not having an honest monetary system due to communistic central banking has debased the morals ....

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February 20, 2011, 03:47:25 PM
 #27


Maybe the years of not having an honest monetary system due to communistic central banking has debased the morals ....

Money and moral? You a kidding?
Probably you think what scam is unique russian invention?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_fraud

btw, Goran - it's not common russian name, is a south slavic name. Serbia and maybe Romania. Only second name looks like russian.

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February 20, 2011, 05:14:37 PM
 #28

Also in the GMail account the signature field had a bunch of smileys like:

(: (: (: (:

But Russians don't use those kind of smileys. They write )) like that )))  some more stuff )))))

However when checking the logs, the first 4 IP addresses were from Russia.
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February 20, 2011, 05:20:40 PM
 #29

Isn't the fact that the scammer listed the same donation address as the other guy proof enough?
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February 20, 2011, 06:05:06 PM
 #30

Note how the OP never fails to preclude the word "scammer" with the word "Russian".


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February 20, 2011, 08:44:21 PM
 #31

Note how the OP never fails to preclude the word "scammer" with the word "Russian".


Because in this case, the scammer was russian.  The IP Addresses were from Russia, and he clearly was.  Anyway it makes it sound more dramatic Smiley.

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nanaimogold
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February 20, 2011, 08:50:53 PM
 #32

Note how the OP never fails to preclude the word "scammer" with the word "Russian".


Because in this case, the scammer was russian.  The IP Addresses were from Russia, and he clearly was.  Anyway it makes it sound more dramatic Smiley.

I'll bet if you did the same post about a Nigerian scammer, the bitfags posting here would shrill and stamp and call you racist.

lol @ bitfags

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February 21, 2011, 04:42:03 PM
 #33

Interesting thread. "Russian scammer" with non russian name etc... etc..

The way an English court would look at it is that it remains to be proven (beyond reasonable doubt, no less) that anyone has indeed been scammed. However, a group of people including OP have publicly confessed in committing an offence (criminal act, felony) under Computer Misuse Act 1990. There is 5 year jail term and/or unlimited fine for such offences.

Moreover there are potentially significant civil damages and legal expenses to be paid to user Tolsti should he/she decide to call in a solicitor specialising in libel. Ironically, the only reasonable defence again such libel lawsuit would be confessing (under oath this time) in misuse of computer systems i.e. felony in US terms.


Just an observation...
I think you look at this in context. We're a bunch of semi-anonymous people on an internet forum. It could be an elaborate hoax perpetrated by the supposed victim, a case of mistaken identity, or that Tolsi is in fact a scammer. In a state legal system, the state is allowed to break the law during the course of collecting evidence. I'd like to think that what we have here is an experiment in statelessness, stemming from our use of unapproved currency. In that case, do you really think anybody reverse engineering the malicious software and using the credentials found from this process to gain access to evidence is performing an immoral act? I don't. An in my opinion, the evidence offered is rather damning, though I will not attempt to force my opinion on anyone else, and they are free to do business with Tolsi if they so choose.
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February 22, 2011, 12:06:52 AM
 #34

Its not an english court its a bitcoin court .
kiba
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February 22, 2011, 12:22:41 AM
 #35

Its not an english court its a bitcoin court .

We still have very few precedents and no arbitration market yet. It will take a while for bitcoin laws to develop.

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February 22, 2011, 12:34:47 AM
 #36

Its not an english court its a bitcoin court .

We still have very few precedents and no arbitration market yet. It will take a while for bitcoin laws to develop.
There can’t be any official bitcoin laws because there won’t be any state enforcing them. There is no central legislature, judicature or executive. Bitcoin is anarchistic and only the morals of its users will create some sort of justice.

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kiba
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February 22, 2011, 12:39:00 AM
 #37

There can’t be any official bitcoin laws because there won’t be any state enforcing them. There is no central legislature, judicature or executive. Bitcoin is anarchistic and only the morals of its users will create some sort of justice.

Um...I don't doubt that.

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February 22, 2011, 02:13:12 AM
 #38

Its not an english court its a bitcoin court .

We still have very few precedents and no arbitration market yet. It will take a while for bitcoin laws to develop.
There can’t be any official bitcoin laws because there won’t be any state enforcing them. There is no central legislature, judicature or executive. Bitcoin is anarchistic and only the morals of its users will create some sort of justice.


False. See: Somalia (Xeer) and Medieval Iceland.
kiba
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February 22, 2011, 02:24:28 AM
 #39

Actually, 'official' law can exists. Basically some laws in the crypto-anarchistic system gain universal acceptance, thus codifying itself.

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February 24, 2011, 05:14:18 PM
 #40

Its not an english court its a bitcoin court .

We still have very few precedents and no arbitration market yet. It will take a while for bitcoin laws to develop.
There can’t be any official bitcoin laws because there won’t be any state enforcing them. There is no central legislature, judicature or executive. Bitcoin is anarchistic and only the morals of its users will create some sort of justice.

That is, until someone actually brings up charges in a terrestrial court and someone has to answer, legally, for their actions. Terrestrial courts will not be too understanding of the idea that they shouldn't have a say because the online world is its own thing, you still interface it from where they can reach you.

That said, this a bit of a special case... since the person who could claim to have been wronged by the access of his account etc, is also a scammer whose actions are also illegal. Also, the cost to him for pressing such charges would probably be more significant than what he could personally "recoup" in damages..... if he won.... and didn't end up winning one case, AND being charged with his own crime.

As a pot smoker (civil offense here, so I don't worry about admitting to it, that and I think we need to take a cue from the gays and come out of the closet if we ever want civil rights) I have known a few people who were dealers. Several of them have, usually rarely but its happened, been robbed. They can't go to the police about it, so the people who rob them generally get off scott free.

Afterall... a drug dealer admitting that he had many lbs of pot could spend several years in jail.... possibly much more time than the person who robbed him for money. As such, they are, oddly enough, a vulnerable class with no protection other than that which they make for themselves (and risk even more jail time for)

In any case, this seems to me kind of similar.... who is the scammer going to report this to? How do you convict people of harming him without his cooperation, which... would require that he identify himself to the authorities.
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