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Author Topic: Mining machine VS space heater  (Read 3428 times)
PatrickHarnett
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August 12, 2011, 08:26:50 PM
 #21

The issue with using a heat pump for your winter heating is that the cold outside air has very little heat that can be pulled out of it. The colder it get's outside, the less efficient the device becomes.

Yes and no, and while air is still a gas, it has lots of kinetic energy.   Moving from 10C to 0C (50f to 32f) only extracts about 5% of the energy available.  Move it to -100C and it will choke.  Remember also that AC units (heating and cooling) are normally designed for their environment, that's why some will work happily at -15C and others will have iced up.

Flip side, exchanging energy from a hot room to an even hotter outside is the same principle.
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin-Qt, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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shaun5000
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August 12, 2011, 08:31:20 PM
 #22

My 1.1G/hash miner uses 750W's and generates A LOT of heat. The bright side of running it is that when its mining bitcoin its gaining more then it costs to operate. Hence the heat is free (kinda). about 10 of these should keep any 1200 ft home worm any time of year.
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August 12, 2011, 09:13:57 PM
 #23


NO!!! All electric heaters are exactly 100% efficient. 1000W of electricity in is 1000W of heat out.

I have a hard time believing that all electric heaters are 100% efficient but I'm sure it's close.

As for a miner, your power supply might be 20% efficient (at generating heat), but then you have the efficiency of the other components to take into account.  I've worked with servers that put out enough heat to rival a space heater.

Mad7Scientist
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August 12, 2011, 10:29:46 PM
 #24

It's called conservation of energy!

When a machine uses 1000W of electricity it will put out 1000W of heat. If it puts out more then you have a "free energy machine" or "perpetual motion machine". If it puts out less then you have violated the conservation of energy rule just as much.

If you have a 1000W electric motor that is 80% efficient that is running a fan, then 200W of heat is going to be made by the motor and 800W of heat is going to be created in the surroundings by the friction of the air blowing past everything. It will add exactly 1000W of heating to the room it is in.

A computer that is using 1000W will add exactly 1000W of heating to the room that it is in. A space heater that uses 1000W will put 1000W of heat in the room.

A radio station that is 1000W might make 400W of heat and 600W of energy may be radiated out in to the world and in to space. It will create heat eventually when it hits something like the side of a mountain.

An air conditioner (heat pump) is moving heat from one side to the other. It cools down the air going through one side and then puts that energy it took out of that air in to a liquid/gas which goes through some pipes and then it goes through the hot side which adds energy to the air on the hot side by heating it up when it goes through. All the heat from the electric motor, compressor and friction comes out as heat on the hot side in addition to the heat it took out of the cold side. So a heat pump will never put out less heat than the electricity it is using.
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August 12, 2011, 10:36:11 PM
 #25

My 1.1G/hash miner uses 750W's and generates A LOT of heat. The bright side of running it is that when its mining bitcoin its gaining more then it costs to operate. Hence the heat is free (kinda). about 10 of these should keep any 1200 ft home worm any time of year.

The noise will be a bit of a nuisance with a miner running in every room. Smiley
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August 13, 2011, 09:39:27 AM
 #26

Yeah 'a bit'. I don't know about you but I can't sleep when all I hear is the blipping sound of the hard drive's needle moving in my otherwise silent htpc.
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August 13, 2011, 12:30:22 PM
 #27


An air conditioner most definitely CAN output more heat than the power it consumes if placed in a window "backwards".  It's called a heat pump, and it gives you more heat than just using that same electricity to make heat. Good heat pumps can have a COP (coefficient of performance) of over 6! So every watt it uses concentrates 6 watts of heat from one place and moves it to another.  The highest I've seen is 7-something, which blows my mind.

It seems that I was mistaken that "window air conditioner" aren't designed to be used as a heat pump and that those which are, are known as reverse cycle air conditioner and these are installed the normal way, rather than reversing them.

So is it true and a common thing that window air conditioner units sold in the states are also effective heat pumps when installed reversed? This is the part I'm skeptical about since a quick look up indicates that heat pumps have to be designed specifically for the temperature ranges desired or their efficiency drops rapidly. So it seems that using a window air conditioner not designed for such a purpose would result in even worse performance.



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gnoll110
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August 13, 2011, 01:06:54 PM
 #28

There are two types of air conditioning, refrigerated (a kind of heat pump) and the traditional evaporative.

Refrigerated uses gas phase change (inside a sealed cycle) to move heat from indoors to outdoor (or vis versa, if run as a heater).

Evaporative also uses phase change (water evaporation). Air is blown over a wet surface, the water evaporated (change phase) taking heat out of the air, before it enters the room. Requires dry air for the water to evaporate into, so doesn't  work in humid condition. This is the same principle as the human body uses cools itself by sweating (or "glowing" if you're a woman).

Rubyist who think bitcoin sound like a good idea.
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August 13, 2011, 01:12:23 PM
 #29



It seems that I was mistaken that "window air conditioner" aren't designed to be used as a heat pump and that those which are, are known as reverse cycle air conditioner and these are installed the normal way, rather than reversing them.

So is it true and a common thing that window air conditioner units sold in the states are also effective heat pumps when installed reversed? This is the part I'm skeptical about since a quick look up indicates that heat pumps have to be designed specifically for the temperature ranges desired or their efficiency drops rapidly. So it seems that using a window air conditioner not designed for such a purpose would result in even worse performance.


An unmodified, consumer product window AC unit would make a terrible heat pump, even installed reversed.  However, modifications are possible if you know what you are doing.  Probably more cost effective to buy a unit designed to do it to start with.

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August 13, 2011, 01:36:45 PM
 #30

Thermodynamic fallacies like some expressed in this thread are hard to overcome. It still is impossible to convince my mother that turning out the lights is not necessary in winter, when the light bulbs are just doing the same job as the resistive electric furnace running at 3000W, eventually converting every bit of electricity they use into heat.

Not related to anything posted yet - when looking for a space heater as a space heater, there is human comfort factor that is also important. Humans like to be 37C. If we lose heat faster than we generate it, we feel cold. The thermal conductivity of the medium affects how cold we feel; for example 25C water removes heat from our bodies much faster than 25C air, so a 25C swimming pool is cold on a 25C day. Moving air also does the same thing, while my computer may be blowing 30C air on my legs, it feels cold because it is removing more heat from my body that cooler, but more stagnant, air would be.

The best space heaters are those that direct very hot air right at you. I have a Pelonic ceramic heater that puts out a slow flow of air at a constant 125C (only the fan speed changes when adjusting it from high to low, the ceramic element 'wants' to be 125C, and the element resistance drops quickly below that temperature). That is much better than a space heater that blows a lot of 35C air at me from across the room, because although they may both be using 1500W, one is removing heat from my body.

MY mining machine used around 300W, My small fan heater uses around 190W and puts out 3X as much heat 5X faster. My oil heater uses 80W takes a hour to get up to the same temp but once its there it turns off and on saving power.
I think you need to re-read the wattage labels on those heaters. Your TV likely puts out more heat than 190 watts.

Ollie
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August 13, 2011, 02:12:50 PM
 #31

I live in a very cold country too, and our stupid politicians decided to ban traditional energy wasting light bulbs forcing people to buy those new expensive energy saving devices. Apparently they didn't realize, that the energy is not really saved, but moved to increased heating costs.
Mad7Scientist
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August 13, 2011, 08:15:30 PM
 #32

Thermodynamic fallacies like some expressed in this thread are hard to overcome. It still is impossible to convince my mother that turning out the lights is not necessary in winter, when the light bulbs are just doing the same job as the resistive electric furnace running at 3000W, eventually converting every bit of electricity they use into heat.

But some of the light escapes through the windows!!!
tynt
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August 14, 2011, 04:28:52 PM
 #33

I live in a very cold country too, and our stupid politicians decided to ban traditional energy wasting light bulbs forcing people to buy those new expensive energy saving devices. Apparently they didn't realize, that the energy is not really saved, but moved to increased heating costs.
Same here. Incandescent bulbs are banned and electric heaters are not. I think I should relabel light bulb packages and start selling 100W electric heaters that emit light.

5830 mining for life
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August 14, 2011, 04:34:05 PM
 #34

My basement is COLD in summer and COLDER in winter. Even it summer it feels good to cozy up to my mining machine. I haven't ordered a: Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor, yet. I'm wondering how a mining machine compares to a space heater and also oil heaters.

These heaters usually run between 500 and 1500 watts, and based on using them before, the space heaters are not very efficient, the oil heaters probably produce more heat for less wattage. How does a mining machine stack up against a space heater and oil heater?

Are we getting over and saving a bit of money in the winter?

Of course most of us would not run the heater 24/7, but lets just ignore that for the time being.

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You just killed the Physics and the laws of the thermodynamic do you know?? The conservation of energy and whatelse  Shocked
Xephan
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August 14, 2011, 04:54:14 PM
 #35

Same here. Incandescent bulbs are banned and electric heaters are not. I think I should relabel light bulb packages and start selling 100W electric heaters that emit light.

100W Heaters with Ultra-Bright in-operation indicators
Ensures you won't leave home without realizing your heater's on Wink

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PiGames
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August 14, 2011, 06:45:26 PM
 #36

I personally can't wait for winter.
I live in central Florida so the summer has been brutal ~97f every day.
Mining has been pretty costly. BUT. When it's gets to around nov/dec I'm looking at enough heating from my machine to not have to worry about central air. ( it's gets to be about 60f at night. But when you used to the climate. That's pretty damn cold)
Mad7Scientist
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August 16, 2011, 04:46:40 PM
 #37

Same here. Incandescent bulbs are banned and electric heaters are not. I think I should relabel light bulb packages and start selling 100W electric heaters that emit light.
That is an amazing idea!
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August 16, 2011, 06:38:03 PM
 #38

It's probably worth a try if you don't pay for electricity. Scenarios include apartments in which you don't pay for utilities and unusually oblivious or generous neighbors.

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August 16, 2011, 10:40:20 PM
 #39

I live in Alaska and my house, my boat & the immediate environment off the garage are now heated with 15KW of bitcoins per hour. Smiley
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December 06, 2011, 06:46:43 AM
 #40

Personally my suggestion is to go for room heaters with minimum cost which are available in market. As mining costs more,going for these types of equipments can help you more.

Regards.



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