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Question: Is a Madmax outcome coming before 2020? Thus do we need anonymity?
yes - 74 (46.5%)
no - 85 (53.5%)
Total Voters: 159

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Author Topic: Is a Madmax outcome coming before 2020? Thus do we need anonymity?  (Read 102436 times)
BadBear
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December 14, 2013, 07:55:26 AM
 #21

You don't have porn mags in your SHTF bag?  Cheesy

1Kz25jm6pjNTaz8bFezEYUeBYfEtpjuKRG | PGP: B5797C4F

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December 14, 2013, 08:01:42 AM
 #22

You don't have porn mags in your SHTF bag?  Cheesy

Honestly , I don't understand who buys all those porn mags I see and the newspaper kiosks.Haven't touch one in years.
Although I have some GB of scanned ones downloaded from tpb Smiley

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December 14, 2013, 10:27:33 AM
 #23

if we get into a Madmax scenario , we would need lots of ammo , gas and a few cargoboats of faith and hope.
Who the hell cares about anonymity when you're facing starvation?

The point is we avoid the Madmax Dark Age if we can prevent the socialism from destroying everything. We need to intervene before we get to the wasteland phase, so we can abort that trajectory. Thus we need anonymity and NOW!

My epic insight on physical coins for cryptocurrency.

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December 14, 2013, 10:24:01 PM
 #24

I am not asian. Actually no one on our team is either. I live in Florida, engineers are American and German on hardware. Software side we have French, Tanzanian, and another Floridian.

Any way, I heard from Malcom CasSelle that the Chinese are ramping up Litecoin ASICs:

http://youtu.be/rBgQFzyg8pk

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December 20, 2013, 11:03:04 PM
 #25

Politicians crave power. Any idealism is feigned or self-delusion (often with drugs and sex to sustain) to cover for their lust for power. I don't see your point.

Politicians raid/rob the government because that is where the power and money is. Just another form of legalized thieves.

They asked a famous bank robber why he robbed banks, and he said, "because that is where the money is".

You jump to the name-calling, but fail to provide evidence for the following:

a) that government is somehow a 'real' boogie-man, rather than an organised collection of humans with diverse motivations.
b) that "government people" are somehow inhuman, perhaps even of alien origin or genetically modified to enhance their evil tendencies.
c) that government have some X factor making them different -- and therefore eviller -- from mere corporations, conglomerates, or Mafia who would take their place if given the chance.
d) that political power is real and concrete, rather than illusory. Actually, describe what "political power" is, given that it is regularly gamed as people discover new loopholes or create a new technology.

Are you being cynical?

The mathematically irrefutable outcome of government is a power vacuum that attracts the flies aka. vested interests.

Some Iron Laws of Political Economics by Eric S Raymond the 150+ IQ genius author of the Cathedral and the Bazaar and the Art of Unix Programming, who launched the open source revolution (he coined the term "open source", elucidated the business models, etc).

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December 21, 2013, 03:13:08 AM
 #26

Some Iron Laws of Political Economics by Eric S Raymond the 150+ IQ genius author of the Cathedral and the Bazaar and the Art of Unix Programming, who launched the open source revolution (he coined the term "open source", elucidated the business models, etc).

You don't have to tell us about how smart and fancy the writer of that is, when everything he wrote is so blatantly factual and obvious. That list stands on its own regardless of whether the author has a high IQ.

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December 23, 2013, 05:35:03 AM
 #27

Except that his blog is just opinionated crap. Glaring example:

Quote
Corruption is not the exceptional condition of politics, it is the normal one.

No, corruption is an abnormality by definition. If the author thinks it's the normal condition, then a) it's a woe-is-me display of cynicism, b) he was obviously under an erroneous impression that something else was the status quo, before being unceremoniously shown the error of his ways.

No "Laissez Faire style Capitalism" here. Just the natural conclusion to any power system with the incentives aligned in the way that they are in government. Germany and France will get there soon enough.

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December 26, 2013, 10:33:17 PM
 #28

So far he still hasn't answered my earlier questions.

I already did numerous times, but you are not smart enough to get it without me spelling it out for you.

There is a power vacuum because there exists in society the necessity for authority to resolve disputes and allocate collective resources.

Those who get their hands on this power can then promise all of the wants and charge the failure to the collective, while skimming the gains for themselves.

The only way to change this is with some technology that would make it impossible to aggregate centralized power. For example, the following features for a cryptocurrency, so that it hopefully becomes less tractable to tax and reallocate private capital.

As I explained to porc already in other threads, the 3D printing revolution is coming and we will buy downloaded designs and print in our homes. The taxation authorities can't track all this activity down if we have anonymity in our internet transactions.

Corruption is the norm, because it is the nature of how the power vacuum is filled. Anyone who attempts to fill the power vacuum with honesty and frankness, will be immediately rejected by the broad population because everyone wants everything they want. Also humans are diverse and naturally have disagreement over priorities and what should be legal, etc..

blablahblah, we have on the order of 10 examples in past threads where you have challenged my logic and you have been resoundingly put to bed each time. So it is time you start to respect me. Else I may just ignore you, because you are wasting my time. Normally I appreciate challenges and discussion because it helps me elucidate the misunderstandings other have (and occasionally I am corrected or learn something new), but when you go so far as to say Eric is speaking only opinions then it shows you fundamentally lack cognition of your culpability for those who repeatedly correct you.

And you should respect Eric S. Raymond. He is one of the few people that I recognize as being smarter than myself.

Hope you recognize the above generative model that explains why your appreciation of human kindness, diversity, and competition has no relevance on this issue of a power vacuum. That you didn't see that, is indicative of why Eric's and my IQ is higher than most others.

Until the power vacuum is eliminated, humanity will continue to repeatedly fall into bouts of megadeath failure.

Unlike Libertarians, I don't see governments as "basically evil because use their coercive powers to coerce unwilling participants into doing things they don't want to do, and the free market is better and more efficient for pretty much everything."

No, I see the situation more like this:
-something will fill a power vacuum no matter what.
-free markets are always overseen by some higher-level entity that makes the rules. There is no "free" free market.

You were close to understanding the above point.

Except the you probably fail to incorporate in your thought process how technology liberates humans from centralized power vacuums. For example, the internet has removed the absolute power that controlled media had since the time of the newspaper, radio, and TV. Because self-publishing became possible.

So don't assume we can't do something similar with the money and taxation power vacuum.

-free markets are always overseen by some higher-level entity that makes the rules. There is no "free" free market.

You are conflating the barriers in Coase's Theorem with the inevitable triumph of the free market over those barriers.

The entropy of the universe is trending to maximum (Second Law of Thermodynamics).

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December 27, 2013, 09:19:27 AM
 #29

I do believe we are headed for complete economic collapse, but not by the year 2020.  The US will manage to borrow enough to stay afloat until then.   2030 is a more realistic goal.

2030?! Don't you know that economics follows a cycle based on some arbitrary number that has nothing to do with economics, which is Pi, or something?   Roll Eyes

Pi is not arbitrary. Pi fundamental to anything that is wave based since due to Fourier analysis waves can be reduced to composition of sinusoids, which is what matter is:

http://unheresy.com/The%20Universe.html#Matter_as_a_continuum

if we get into a Madmax scenario , we would need lots of ammo , gas and a few cargoboats of faith and hope.
Who the hell cares about anonymity when you're facing starvation?



Who's going to care about cryptocurrencies at all in a situation like that really?

All those productive people that will be building the new economy based on virtual delivery of goods.

I had the insight back in 2010, that the industrial world eat itself like a cancer into chaos and that the new knowledge age economy would rise up.

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December 28, 2013, 10:10:29 PM
 #30

I have come to realize that it is necessary to put most of the foreign men into poverty, rather than argue with them. That is why a new altcoin that defeats Bitcoin (and takes over the world) must be launched very stealthy in a way that most of the naysayers will not profit from it. Because we don't want these myopic people who lack sufficient technical skills to have capital in the new knowledge economy coming, as they would retard its potential. It has been one of my strategies to piss as many people off as I could, so they would ignore me and thus miss out.

It is impossible to argue rationally with someone who ignores the facts presented upthread.

For example, we have the $150 trillion global debt, the roughly $1000 trillion in unfunded social welfare promises from governments, and another $1000 trillion on top of that in derivatives to keep it all propped up by causing interest rates to decline and the 30 year bond bubble (see chart on first page of the thread).

Eventually we run out of other people's money to spend, then the collective cancer known as democracy or government enters megadeath mode as it must extract blood ($) from a turnip. Nazi Germany is one example, the 57 million shot in the back of the head during China's Cultural Revolution (which was really about economic failure) is another, and we have these repeating examples throughout recorded history since Mesopotamia. These totalitarian despots rise to power when the populace becomes desperate to extract blood from a turnip. For example, how Hitler printed his own money and started massive infrastructure projects, e.g. the Autobahn, and universal healthcare (now we have Obamacare, so we don't have to pay for anything anymore). By the time they ran out of other people's money (printing money from thin air), they were culling the weak in order to afford their "universal" health care.

Europe now has universal health care, lifetime employment guarantees, 37 hour work weeks with 1 month paid vacations, etc. and the megadeath is coming. Europeans are in the same delusion as this mother of 15 who lost her kids to the state because she was depending on the state. Eventually the cancer eats itself, because we run out of other people's money. Now the Americans are falling into the same cancer that razed Europe in the early 19th century, with a repeat underway.

The only thing that has ever rescued society from itself, is technology that opens new paradigms for efficiency and to escape from the dying cancer of each gruesome bout of democracy.

Yet you are taught that democracy is good, because you are ignorant cows. And this is why you are dominated by the elite who serve the role of harvesting you when you are fattened with debt, as explained in the upthread cited generative model that Eric S. Raymond summarized.



Even the developing world is fattened with debt and they feel they are riding high. For example in the Philippines where I am there is a massive expansion of debt to race to build out gas stations, malls, condos, subdivisions, and retail. They have sent 10% of their population overseas to work and call centers are flourishing. Yet this is just bubble, as the OFWs will lose their incomes when the global debt bubble implodes. For example, the Hong Kong real estate market is up 600% in a decade, and these middle class Chinese families can afford filipina maids, all pumped up with debt. Of course that real estate market will collapse and they won't be able to afford maids any more. Ditto call centers where they are finding out that the real productivity gains were coming from automation, not from these workers in India and the Philippines whose education is no where near the level to create innovation in the high tech knowledge age (innovation is what drives profits not robotic employees). You've got the Philippines economy pumped up with debt driving a highly unbalanced consumer economy with manufacturing base halved as a percent of GDP in the past decade.

47% of all existing jobs to be replaced by automation:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Oxford+study+predicts+job+loss+computer+automation

Economist magazine explains most of the gains for corporations were due to automation, not the outsourcing:

http://www.tutor2u.net/blog/index.php/business-studies/comments/is-outsourcing-about-to-go-into-decline

So outsourcing is declining and in some areas reversing:

http://www.americanbazaaronline.com/2013/01/18/outsourcing-to-india-will-stop-by-2022/

https://www.google.com/search?q=outsourcing%20declines

Actually the Philippines economy is highly unbalanced and will collapse in 3 years, as well the global economy will collapse and most OFWs will come home:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/21/heres-why-the-philippines-economic-miracle-is-really-a-bubble-in-disguise/

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December 29, 2013, 08:12:42 AM
 #31

I do believe we are headed for complete economic collapse, but not by the year 2020.  The US will manage to borrow enough to stay afloat until then.   2030 is a more realistic goal.

2030?! Don't you know that economics follows a cycle based on some arbitrary number that has nothing to do with economics, which is Pi, or something?   Roll Eyes

Pi is not arbitrary. Pi fundamental to anything that is wave based since due to Fourier analysis waves can be reduced to composition of sinusoids, which is what matter is:

http://unheresy.com/The%20Universe.html#Matter_as_a_continuum

Sure, but human ingenuity and invention, which is what drives economics, is not wave based. Or at least is not on any specific pattern.
By the way, since apparently no one ever told you (you seem to have had a very sheltered life), you don't get respect by telling people that they should respect you. That actually does the exact opposite. Likewise with claims about trumping someone's logic. You don't do it by telling people that you did, you do it by actually doing it and having them realize that you did. If you didn't make them understand that you trumped their logic, or that your smarts should warrant respect, then you have failed miserably. Otherwise, I could just as easily say,

I have successfully refuted all your logic and debates. You have to respect me.

Now where is that CPU only cryptocurrency of yours? I'm sure there are tons of botnet operators waiting giddily to get their hands on it.

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December 31, 2013, 11:25:21 PM
 #32

Sure, but human ingenuity and invention, which is what drives economics, is not wave based. Or at least is not on any specific pattern.

Yes it is. It is actually following a 78 year (3 x 26 year maturity generations) pattern which mirrors the technological unemployment and real estate cycle. Correlate the first 3 agricultural revolutions, the 2 industrial revolutions, and now the first computer revolution.


By the way, since apparently no one ever told you (you seem to have had a very sheltered life), you don't get respect by telling people that they should respect you. That actually does the exact opposite.

Agreed. Men have to be beaten into respect. Michael Jordan-esque style.

Then the beta-males (followers) and the women come over to the winning tribe.

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December 31, 2013, 11:44:26 PM
 #33

P.S. I am done talking. I've already stated upthread my plan-of-action, don't need to repeat.

I am not for making people suffer, because I understand that government only serves one purpose which is to redistribute from the profitably productive to the misallocation, i.e. the unproductive. Unfortunately debt skews these metrics of profitability, so that the unproductive are more profitable than the productive, i.e. the meaning of productive is also skewed as we end up with overcapacity in less advanced sectors of the economy, e.g. conspicuous consumption, manufacturing, real estate, and health care. Although it sounds nice to say that everyone should be cared for by Big Brother, the reality is the IRON LAW and power vacuum which was explained to you by high geniuses upthread.

There are two kinds of people, socialists who love government and the not stupid. I can immediately classify people by this taxonomy and not waste time. Unfortunately, most people fall into the former category. This means we are headed into a very dangerous time, where most people are useless (sorry we can replace you with a robot which is more productive, you modeled your education and skills for a debt bubble economy which is not real) and at odds with the few productive smart people. I love people, but just as I can lead a horse to water, I can't make it drink, I also can't convert a socialist to a smart person. They have to undergo their learning by experience as depicted below.

But the world has never ended, not even once. Therefore your doomsday preaching makes you a fool.

For the people depicted below, this world ended. Yeah I know "it is different now", and every generation thought it was.











Europe now has universal health care ...[snip]...

...Eventually the cancer eats itself, because we run out of other people's money. Now the Americans are falling into the same cancer that razed Europe in the early 19th century, with a repeat underway.

Maybe if that phantom "universal" healthcare required large amounts of neodymium to be imported from China, or it destroyed the local habitat, or something similar, giving the debt a tangible inventory-based aspect to it, you would have a point. But since public services like health, pensions, education and all that other stuff can mostly be likened to a "just in time" model with minimal inventory, your claim holds no water.

That debt you keep whining about is just an accounting system that makes it all work. Governments don't keep gold bars or uranium rods in cold storage as "hard money" to pay pensions when people retire. The sensible trend is to reduce carrying costs wherever possible.

You've conflated so many things, I do not think is my duty to unravel the spaghetti that is your mind.

First of all, I am entirely against hard money (search for my math and comments in the Peter Schiff thread in the Economics forum) although it is fine as a private asset, but that is irrelevant to the point of this thread.

Money what ever form it takes represents a claim on human labor, because ultimately human effort and knowledge is what puts raw resources into effectual benefit.

Massive debt means humans have been allowed to waste their lives doing activities and aggregating knowledge which is not profitable. In short, a massive misallocation of human capital.

The way this is resolved is as the photos above depict.

Society can't forever take from those who are truly productive and redistribute to those who do activities which are unprofitable. Eventually starvation results, as depicted in the photo of the Chinese famine which lead to the fanatical execution of 57 million Chinese.

During a debt bubble, the truly productive activities are not in many cases more enticing than simply running up debt and speculation (e.g. flipping houses in the real estate bubble or speculating on the Bitcoin ponzi bubble).

I have come to realize that it is necessary to put most of the foreign men into poverty, rather than argue with them.
Oooh, a feudal-like class system as collective punishment for my "angry Yank" comment?

For those who believe large government and debt-based society is going to take care of them and who don't upgrade their high tech skills, yes they will feel like they are in a feudal-like class system.

For those of us who will be active participants in the coming high tech revolution (as predicted by Oxford that 45% of all existing jobs will be replaced by computer automation within 20 years), this is going to be a very productive time.

your oversimplified "government = socialism = evil" claptrap.

So you love government and you ignore the IRON LAW which was presented to you upthread by several high geniuses. So go ahead to your deserved outcome.

Now who's being delusional?

Wink

whatever happened to that pseudo-intellectual discussion about spreading knowledge and defeating the power law of wealth distribution?

It all fits together, but it is not surprising to me that you can't fathom it.

Europe now has universal health care, lifetime employment guarantees, 37 hour work weeks with 1 month paid vacations, etc.
Hogwash.
In case you haven't heard, 'Europe' has lots of different countries:
-Relaxed Greece which naively allowed their corrupt politicians to squander Euro funds
-Utopian Belarus. Think: North Korea but cold and slightly radioactive

among others.
a) What part of Europe are you regurgitating propaganda about?
b) When was the last time you went to (a) to find out what it's really like?

Don't go hiding under a rock by 2018 or so. I will expect you to answer to this comment.

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January 01, 2014, 05:45:11 AM
 #34

There are two kinds of people, socialists who love government and the not stupid.

 Grin
I've been lurking a few of the threads you're involved in, but need to give that a +1

For the record, I think you're bitcoin doomsday scenario is plausible, but I can think of many equally or less fanciful ways by which bitcoin will save the world from statism. We'll see what crystallizes over the next few years.
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January 02, 2014, 08:02:03 AM
 #35

"Allowed to waste..."?! Mis-allocation?! Who are you to judge, Mr I'm-totally-against-socialism-and-free-markets-pwns-all-anyway? Oh wait, you're more the "benevolent dictator" type, am I right? With your superior technological nous, you'll be at the top of the food chain, supplying our hungry mouths with tasty morsels of your closed-source power-law-busting solutions?

Actually, it requires a dictator to impose arbitrary laws on people.  It is obvious that the more socialistic a country, the more burdensome the laws.  A country which embraces property rights and free commerce would have little need for a dictator.  That dictator would have no power.  The law would protect people's basic rights and nothing more.  This is why the elite detest freedom for the masses.  Socialism is a very clever way to consolidate power in the hands of the few.

Capitalism?  It has ever existed outside of a theoretical thought experiment.  It is a system which is incompatible with animal nature.  Animals are programmed to covet the life and property of other animals.  This is why socialism will always resonate with people, and ironically there will be no end to the suffering they endure because of it.  The elite are simply better at stealing than you will ever be.
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January 02, 2014, 08:44:48 PM
 #36

no i do not think its a mad max outcome or a biblical  thingy. Yes i'm a scientist AND believe in GODS.. viking gods to be exact... who doesn't want to go to a hall and drink beer/mead and battle the forces of evil in the afterlife  Grin Just kidding hehe
I think those in power will remain in power. They control a lot if not nearly everything. Thanks to Snowden we now know that secret services from every country, or nearly every country, is using some kind of surveillance on their citizens. I think these banksters and filthy rich have read up on Sun tzu:

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

I think that is the reason  for all this data collecting. Knowledge is power. All under the guise of " preventing terror attacks" but meanwhile just harvesting other innocent peoples data. Personally if the NSA should look me up the only thing they will find is that i talk too much on the phone(hands free) even when I"m driving ( yeah NSA you got me there  i'm a bad bad bad man  Grin ), am a comic book and coin collector, l do a lot of volunteer work, love bitcoins, etc No real secrets there Smiley
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January 03, 2014, 05:29:26 PM
 #37

We'll see what crystallizes over the next few years.

Agreed because the ecosystem (not just Bitcoin, let's include all altcoins) is largely a free market. I am not omniscient enough to predict the myriad of possibilities in a free market. The nature of a free market is that everyone sees best the portions closest to them, and no one sees the new (as contrasted with repeating below) future all with perfect clarity.



I was explaining to you the repeating pattern of result of socialism upthread. Remember debt is always future taxation throughout history.

1) Aggregate size of debt is irrelevant.

As I explained in my prior post upthread, distributing free money distorts all the feedback loops that provide the most efficient outcomes. For example, low or 0% down 30 year mortgage loans pull 30 years of demand for homes forward by 30 years, thus distorting the economy. The vested interests capture the public backstop via the government to privatize the profits and socialize the losses. An example of one distortion is that human capital (i.e. lifespans) are wasted because instead of realizing they need to study computer science, biotech, nanotech, or robotics, many people were too "profitably" busy being real estate brokers or financial analysts. As an idiot, you will apparently never understand that.

Even the IMF admits it is coming:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10548104/IMF-paper-warns-of-savings-tax-and-mass-write-offs-as-Wests-debt-hits-200-year-high.html

Perhaps you totally ignored the upthread links I provided from Martin Armstrong. Well eat this humble pie.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/01/03/roman-empire-sources/

Quote
This is one of the books I hope to have out this year. It is a project of pulling together the various contemporary historians and laying it all out. You can see how I use the ancient sources in the piece I did on Julius Caesar and the Debt Crisis. The monetary system is my own original research and was put together building perhaps the largest collection of ancient coins for the sole purpose of reconstructing the monetary history of the entire world. It cost tens of millions of dollars to produce this single chart. It is the product of my passion. I wanted to see how Rome collapsed was it like a 747 coming in for a landing, or was it what I called a Waterfall Event. To my shock, thingseconomic collapses happen much faster than people would ever suspect.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/01/03/imf-proposed-expropriation-for-europe/

Quote
The IMF proposal to just take 10% of all European deposits would certainly not take place before the EU elections on May 25th. We do show higher volatility and a crazy period in 2014 in the September/October period. That will be the beginning of the crisis period that will not end until about 2020. We are preparing the 2014 Gold Report and the report on the Pension Crisis. There is a tremendous paradox that has the market befuddled. Why are long-term interest rates so low when the norm had been 8% for so long? Why has the financial system not collapsed? The answers will be in this report and the results of our study of both the Supply and Demand will shock many. Sometimes trends evolve right under our nose and we forget to look closely until it is too late.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/01/01/why-we-should-be-concerned-about-nsa/

Quote
So why should we be concerned? Because this technology will be used for taxation. You do not build a system this comprehensive for 19 guys and a camel. Where is the profit in this?...

What we should be concerned about is the effort to eliminate economic freedom. These people believe they are not the problem – it is you. If you paid all your taxes, they could keep the system running and retain power. But the more this system fails, the greater they will use their powers to hunt everything down. This is how Rome fell. Maximinus I declared all wealth belonged to the state. When there were no other enemies to wage war against and bring home more wealth, they began turning against their own people. This is how EVERY empire has died. They self-destruct unleashing deflation at its worst because people begin to hoard money and that reduces the velocity of money. In Rome they kept raising taxes so high, people just walked away from their properties giving rise to the Dark Age and serfdom.

In Japan, each new issue of bronze coins devalued those in circulation making the new coin worth 10 times that of the previous coins in circulation. This practice ended hoarding as people then preferred Chinese coins and eventually the monetary system collapsed as coinage was no longer acceptable for anything. Money began rice. Japan did not issue coins for nearly 600 years. Money became simply food.

It is this turning inward against the people that is the standard operational procedure for an established state, nation, or empire that signals its demise. This is the danger of the NSA. Maximinus I paid spies to report on hidden wealth. We have the NSA.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/01/02/europes-practice-of-cancelling-currency-the-dirty-little-secret-everyone-overlooks/

Quote
Again, opinions are worthless – we all have them. All I can do is qualify events based upon the past. For the American readers, it is important to comprehend a critical point. A US dollar bill from 1861 is still legal tender. That is not the case in Europe – not even Britain. This goes to your question about stockpiling euro notes regardless of the codes. Europe routinely CANCELLED currency with each new issue. They demonetize both previous coins and notes. This has been a socialistic trick. This is WHY the US dollar was favored even in Russia, China, and among drug dealers. The dollar haters do not understand this aspect.

The tradition in Europe is always to cancel the previous notes. Old British pound notes are not legal tender. I would recommend old $100 bills while you can still get them. The new ones they can pick up on a scanner going through an airport these days.

So all I can suggest is based upon previous experience. Will they cancel the notes? They can do that. They always cancelled the notes to ensure people PAID TAXES. If you had a bundled of cash you didn’t pay taxes on, cancelling the old notes forced capital out of hiding and it was then taxed.

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January 04, 2014, 02:23:27 AM
 #38

Martin Armstrong disagrees with a grand conspiracy or collusion among the likes of the Bilderberg group, Trilateralists, and CFR to bring about a one-world government. Let me first quote his recent logic, and I will refute each quote below it.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/29/fema-camps-the-real-issues/


Quote
There is no plot with the bankers conspiring to collapse the US economy. What would they have to gain from that? They want the easy life and places to go and spend money. They are not interested in the destruction of the economy. There is no profit in that. Money loses ALL value in a Dark Age. The ONLY thing that survives if you go that far is food. There were no gold coins even minted shortly after the fall of the Roman Empire until the 13th century.

First of all, he apparently ignores or isn't aware of the concept of compartmentalization, wherein the lower-level participants do not have a total perspective of what is going on.

Armstrong is conflating dispensable banking corporations with the power of those who sit at a much higher level in the economy than these throw-away corporations.

These corporations are just chess pieces (pawns) of the $trillionaires. The wealth of these high-ranking globalists is not measured in money, rather in political power. They control worldwide the supply of credit, the media (including the internet giants such as facebook and google), the drug companies, the education system. This is all you need to control the minds of the people.

They are not interested in more money, they can print that at-will. They are interested in more control. They want to bring the humans to a greater state of slavery. This is for example what the fabricated lie of global warming is about. Some links on that:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4015637#msg4015637
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4018527#msg4018527
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4018815#msg4018815
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4021602#msg4021602
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4021654#msg4021654
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4026338#msg4026338
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4032736#msg4032736
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4039839#msg4039839
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4064874#msg4064874
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4246486#msg4246486

Particularly amusing is this debt-induced "Save the Planet" delusion of westerners:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374873.msg4298658#msg4298658



http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/29/collapsing-the-economy-makes-no-sense/

Quote
COMMENT: So government has no interest in collapsing the economy, but they do in collapsing the Twin Towers as you intimated?  We’re all a bit looney in our own way I guess.

JC

REPLY: Follow the money. 911 expanded their power and got rid of an investigation into $2.3 trillion missing money at the Pentagon Rumsfeld said he would investigate one day before 911. Of course the plane hit ONLY the room where all the evidence was stored ending that investigation. WTC 7 had way too much evidence they needed eliminated. However, the Twin Towers was really a terrorist attack they LET HAPPEN for the guys in MCC New York drew the Twin Towers on the wall of their prison cell with airplanes going into them 1 year BEFORE! They knew it and used it as cover and to expanded their power. The Pentagon and WTC7 were convenient eliminations. Stay with the evidence. Painting everything with the same brush loses credibility.

They are going after the bankers now with major fines for the first time. J.P.Morgan was hit with $13 billion fine for its mortgage scam, then there is the Whale Trade and more. They are concerned about civil unrest that could lead to revolution. Government cannot control the economy any more than lowering interest rates helped Japan, USA, or Europe. It is always about their power. Collapsing the economy would produce what advantage? They are the Financial Capital of the World. Why would they even want to collapse that? I honestly do not understand this sort of reasoning. Where’s the benefit to them? The dollar would not be the reserve currency. They would lose everything in their basket of power trips. It makes no sense. Not even Bush would come up with that one.

The power-elite won't lose during a meltdown. They will accumulate more power, because they will have their fingers on the political and war making levers as the defaults transfer REAL assets and political control from the middle class to them.

I can't fathom why Armstrong can't see this throughout his studies of the period since central banking began. This is why I think he may be complicit with the power-elite. More likely, Armstrong just has some bias that causes him to think the structure disallows a power-elite. I think he is conflating complete control with tangential control. Of course the power-elite are not in complete control, they are an incidental effect of the IRON LAW of collective political economics which I and other high geniuses explained upthread.



http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/29/the-coming-french-revolution/

Quote
The Coming French Revolution?

They do not intentionally need to destroy the economy, they are doing a great job on their own without even trying. The French Constitutional Court has approved Hollande’s 75% tax on all people earning more than 1 million euros. They just do not understand the economy and never will. Those who are so desperate to see conspiracies to grab everything for the top 1%, never take the next step. What will someone do if he has all the money? He cannot spend it because there is no place left to spent it. Money becomes worthless in a Dark Age These people are destroying the economy with unintended consequences.


Hollande thinks he can seize all the money of the rich and this will somehow make things better. He is such a fool. Even the sports players are starting to leave and then to keep people happy the Romans knew how – give them games and free bread. We will see the French rise up against the insanity as unemployment continues to rise, the future is cut-off for the youth, and they will not even have sports to occupy their minds. The French have a long history of confrontation with government.

Again they are not interested in accumulating more money, they already control the creation of credit with their national central banks in every country.

They want to drastically expand debt in repeating 78 year waves, then ride the contraction in debt to their advantage where political control becomes more centralized on each cycle. This coming debt implosion is going to move them much closer to a one-world government, because the nations (and their national central banks) are going to be destroyed and highly discredited in the eyes of the people.

International institutions and cooperation will be required by the coming implosion and even Oxford U. predicts up to 45% of existing jobs to replaced by computer automation by 2032, thus massive international sharing of private wealth to feed all these unemployable people who did not get the correct education, because it was more profitable to do other activities during the debt bubble.

So the globalists are just riding the structure that transfers more centralized control to them. It was in their advantage to use their control over the things I stated already, to help the debt bubble be extended since 1998 (LTCM and Asian/Russian/Euro contagion) and since 2007 contagion so that the coming debt implosion will be much more severe, thus transferring more power to the centralized international bailouts and "cooperation". Cooperation means socialism! More of the same sh8t that got us where we are are.



http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/29/new-world-order-2/

Quote
New World Order

Some people seem to think there is a serious plan to create a New World Order with a single government. You cannot even get Congress to agree no less the European Union. Yes, the theory was to unite Europe and that would eliminate future war. In reality, it shows a single entity is impossible and the new union will increase the chances of war. The idea was simply that if there was one government there would be no war. That is an absurd theory and Europe is proving how that idea will not work. Will someone TRY? They would like to. Yes there are the Biblical prophecy but even that does not same the entire world. In order for that to actually unfold, it seems such an opportunity would come ONLY after war. There is unlikely to be a movement where politicians voluntarily surrender power.

We cannot confuse lofty goals with practical human capability. A one world government and one world currency is impractical for you will never get people to ever agree. Replacing the dollar with a single world reserve currency – yes. But a currency used at the local store worldwide – no way. Only war could set up such a scenario. That is economic power and sovereignty no politician will surrender without a fight.

The collapse the economy is coming all by itself because they CANNOT stop it without reducing power and that will not happen. Some say there the evidence is overwhelming citing, Rockefeller, Soros, among others. Do they wish to END capitalism? No – they just want to control it even more and pretend there is still freedom. Collapsing the existing system of capitalism is raising taxes and over-regulating everything, i.e. Obamacare..

No government will accept a one world government. Just look at the rise in the social unrest and finger-pointing already in Europe. What people would LIKE to create is one thing. Are they CAPABLE of creating a New World Order – no way. You cannot get people to agree on this subject alone no less everyone agree to one state. Don’t worry. The civil unrest will ensure there will not be a New World Order. If you think they are INTENTIONALLY collapsing the economy, sorry. They are too stupid to even see anything they do causes a problem. The problem is always the people – never them. Just look at the irrational decision of Hollande in France and the IMF. They are outright ignorant and power drunk. They think people will leave their money in the bank so they can just take it? They know nothing of human nature.

There would have to be a war to totally devastate the political structure. I really do not see politicians voluntarily giving up any power ever.

The coming debt collapse will devastate nation-state political structures. The will of the people will be rabid. This uptick in Armstrong's war cycle, with the coming riots is right in line with the objectives of the elite. Does he not realize that this "Operation Wallstreet" and "I am the 99%" plays right into the aims of the power-elite to discredit the nation-states. Of course only the millionaires and smaller billionaires need to be worried about this. The power-elite $trillionaires will never be implicated nor touched by this public outcry.

The power-elite won't try to move all the way to one-world slavery on this cycle. They will get the SDR reserve currency basket that Armstrong is also advocating! They will move much law making and cooperation to international institutions. They will move us to a Technocracy (e.g. Smart Electric Meters with China as a model of state control) where they see and tax everything.

The next cycle after this one will be the likely 666 result of total failure and gridlock for humanity.

The only thing that can derail this outcome, is a technology that makes it impossible for government to track and tax everything.



http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/29/new-world-order-collapsing-economy/

Quote
New World Order – Collapsing Economy

QUESTION: You do not believe in the New Work Order and the bankers orchestrating the collapse of the economy?

JP

ANSWER: Sorry no. The banks are in serious retreat. They have been caught manipulating various markets for short-term gains. They have to abandon commodity trading and Morgan Stanley just sold the energy trading to Russia. The IDEA of a New World Order was the driving force behind the Euro. The theory was to create just one government and you will end war. This theory has been proven to be unsound. The union of Europe is being torn apart at the seams. France is insane and wants to tax everything from YouTube to all electronics now.

The ONLY way to create a New World Order will be by force (war) but more likely in the aftermath of war. I do not see governments worldwide surrendering their sovereignty. All they have to do is look at Europe. Rockefeller is dead and his words were of an era when they believed socialism/communism would create the perfect world. I do agree, it will take the right crisis to launch such an idea but they killed Kondratieff for saying that the business cycle would destroy communism as well. No such system will ever last forever. It does not matter the design. No system lasts eternally – not even ours. It is always just a question of TIME. There is a time and place for everything and change is one of them.

Are there people who would like to collapse the economy (capitalism) to create a New World Order of Socialism? Yes. Are they capable of pulling that off? No. That is not the issue. The economy IS collapsing from socialism on its own. They, of course, talk about the rich and the top 1% to justify their communistic agenda. That is who they will blame when the culprit is the masses. We cannot keep a Ponzi scheme going between generations and raising taxes on everything that moves. Rome destroyed itself in that same precise manner – unfunded pensions..

What Lenin preached sounded wonderful to the person who thought the rich would be stripped of their wealth and it would all fall to their pockets. When you take a million dollars and give $1 each to a million people you do not create very much.

This is the origin of the New World Order. A world free of war and the land of Utopia. Sorry. It is impossible as Communism proved.

Any New World Order would be an agenda after war. I do not see politicians voluntarily surrendering their power to someone else at this time. They do not need some sinister group to orchestrate the collapse of the economy. Politicians screwed that up ensuring its demise without intentionally adopting such a scheme.

The tree has been already cut. The question is which direction will it fall. I try to stay active in hopes that perhaps with all the people I know, just may be I can push it in the direction of freedom and away from any socialistic state if that is what people call the New World Order. There will be a time for choice.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/30/economic-collapse-is-structural-design-flaw-requiring-no-conspiracy/

Quote
Economic Collapse is Structural Design Flaw Requiring No Conspiracy

QUESTION: Mr. Armstrong; I think I understand that what you are saying conspiracies are irrelevant because the system is self-destructing all on its own. You wrote: “They do not need some sinister group to orchestrate the collapse of the economy. Politicians screwed that up ensuring its demise without intentionally adopting such a scheme.” Am I correct in my interpretation?

Thank you

SK

ANSWER: Yes. You hit it spot on. When the Euro was being crafted upon this theory of a New World Order where one government would eliminate war, I made it clear that the Euro would fail unless there was a single national debt. They said at that time this was Phase I and that would be Phase II because they did not believe they could sell that idea to the people. Well, Phase II never took place and the people who were there are gone and those in place know nothing about Phase II and this they have to defend the current structure. It will require NO EFFORT of some sinister group.to collapse the system. It will happen without anyone’s help. The US debt structure never paying anything off is the same fatal flaw. The economy will collapse regardless of the desire of any group. Yes these structural flaws could be fixed right now. But that requires government changing and letting go of some power. Hence, the collapse in inevitable.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/31/it-is-all-connected-us-population-growth-collapsing-that-fits-in-nicely-with-the-economic-collapse/

Quote
As we look ahead into 2014 and into 2020, we are headed into the eye of the economic storm. It honestly will require no conspiracy of all-powerful groups to collapse the economy. The Senate investigations of the 1930s from which the SEC was born, NEVER discovered any of the rich moguls short. They all lost huge money and were found to be long at the top as well from Rockefeller on down.

The “super rich” will be going down the same drain because the underlying system was constructed on bogus assumptions that whatever trend was in motion will remain in motion. They need not try to collapse the economy – it is doing it all on its own and they could not conspire to prevent it.

Sorry – that is not how everything works. It is a shame we have to be put through this nonsense for our families. The finger-pointing will always lead to some group in the private sector the government will promise to hunt down. But the hunters are the problem – not the prey. Pointing the finger at the “super rich” as Joe Biden called the, will lead to state control of everything. Do you want Communism and the New World Order or Freedom? Your choice. It is government designed by morons that has created this mess

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/01/01/is-anyone-really-in-charge/

Quote
Is Anyone Really in Charge?

COMMENT: Hi Marty

I think your take on conspiracy theories is refreshing especially to someone like me who is little leaning towards them.   While I am happy to concede that there is no one truly behind the curtain isn’t it bad enough that there are forces definitely TRYING to control the world which ultimately cannot be controlled. (The writings of Rockerfeller, Zbigniew Brezinski are testament to this). In your recent writings you said that the NWO is impossible unless there is some kind of war. Well isn’t war in the plan to achieve that aim. Just as politicians will never relinquish power there are power addicted forces that will stop at nothing to get what they want.

Happy New Year

A

REPLY: I believe we need conspiracies for the same reason they say if God did not exist, man would create him. We look at government as a god – all-powerful, yet we do not understand how they function. The Fed plays the game because they know it is really a matter of confidence, A bank run is a panic spreading by fear – a lack of confidence. They control the media to control confidence. Snowden had to turn to the Guardian in Britain because no US newspaper would have published that story. I can tell you for at least two years in advance I was being warned by people on Capitol Hill that the NSA was sucking up even their emails. This was not hush-hush. This was said to me openly, which meant you can bet every journalist covering Washington also knew but did not print the story.

We need conspiracies so we can sleep at night thinking someone is in charge.But it is far worse than any conspiracy when you realize nobody is deliberately causing this nightmare, and NOBODY can stop it either.

I use to think there were such dark forces. But after the computer predicted correctly not just the precise day of the October 19th 1987 Crash, but the point move and more importantly that this was the LOW and new HIGHS would be seen by 1989, so when the Crash came in 1989, I had two phone going simultaneously and on my left ear was the US Treasury and in my right was the Bank of Canada. They both wanted to know if they should be intervening. What did the model say?

I came to realize, there were no groups. If anyone was really in control, nobody would bother calling me. Why would the CFTC actually put in papers that I was manipulating the world economy because their view was we were the largest adviser ever. Just total nonsense. There is no such group. This is far worse for there is no plan and NOBODY can stop it if they wanted to.

Does it really matter if there is a group or not when the problem is structural? It will collapse regardless because nobody in their right mind would have designed such a system this way. Anyone in the private sector who ran a company the way these people run government would be in prison for life if not fried in an electric chair.

We are collapsing the same as Rome and every Empire before us and there were no groups that were credited with those events. Communism fell for the same reason and it did not require war – it was structural! Cheer up. We are in a cab and the driver is a kangaroo. It cannot get any more crazy than this.. You will wish there was some all-powerful group who you could bribe to reverse this mess. It ain’t gona happen! We are still collapsing all by ourselves. Will it make you feel any better if there is some sinister group? The reason I point this out is because government will prefer to look for a conspiracy they can blame and if they are rich, hey that justifies communism. Government needs conspiracy groups to get them off the hook. If we entertain this nonsense of conspiracies, we will never restructure government correctly and thus it is all pointless – we are just morons repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Blame conspiracies and you will support Communism and lose all freedom. This is a structural collapse that cannot be prevented without the complete reform of politics moving to a real Democracy not a pretend one that is really a corrupt Republic.

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January 04, 2014, 02:52:22 AM
 #39

@AnonyMint

Great post, nicely sums it up IMHO.

------

For all I know, looking around, following international politics, finance and having spent time in active military - thus having seen the delta between mass media propaganda and reality on-site across the globe...
All I can say that his world is a shithole, in majority governed by sociopathic maniacs.

We in "civilized countries" (which governments in reality often took and take actions we'd not normally associate with "civilized") presently live in a room full of smoke&mirrors. Comparisons to "the Matrix" aren't as far fetched as some would think.
The true rulers (there are many different labels for them) are good at hiding and poisoning the masses out of the dark. Divide & Conquer is still all the rage and bread&games still works like a charm today. Just the methods and technology are more refined - the goals and basic incentives haven't changed in millenia.

Power, wealth and control is what it's all about. Human live is expendable to them.

The way I see it, above images occur almost every day, thanks to "international politics" which is the dirtiest thing you can possibly find on the planet. You just don't see it, because it's usually far away, that's how it works.
For as long as the sheeple stay asleep, undereducated and psychologically conditioned to actually like their fate, nothing will ever change. We right now are witnessing the extend of the decease of culture already and it comes in many shapes.

It's like a wolfpack, that at one day had one member with a vision : to start herding the sheeple! Feed and pretend to care for them in the open, while at night silently kill as many of them as they see fit.
Turns out it worked pretty well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Le_Bon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mass_Psychology_of_Fascism

All it takes for the world our sheeple love so much to change for the worse (hint : it already does in our pseudo-democracies, where governments don't give a sh*t about what their sheeple want them to do), is a good financial crisis followed by a global depression. With the help of central banks, large wars are always appreciated by the sociopathic elite. Worked perfect twice in the last century and in our predicament, things aren't any different today - except the scale is even larger than last time.
Good luck with that, we're right on the road headed straight in the next nightmare and it's only a question of time. Really doesn't take much to turn humans into the most evil monsters the planet has ever seen. Frighteningly little to be precise.
Those running the show behind the curtain don't need >7 billion people walking the earth. To them, most of these are "useless eaters" that only increase the required effort to keep the masses asleep, they see it like an ant hill.

The brilliant George Carlin once put it this way : It's a big club! And you and I are NOT in it!
True statement...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaa9iw85tW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_zwB6GLpo4

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January 04, 2014, 06:17:06 AM
 #40

I sent an email to Armstrong.

Quote
You are very smart man. I respect your work very much.

But we are talking past each other.

Correct government is the problem. And government exists due to a power
vacuum.

I am not attributing this to very rich groups. You apparently
misunderstand the complexity and depth of my point.

You are correct of course that there is a structure and the power elite
couldn't alter the outcome even if they wanted to. If they don't play the
synergistic role, some other power elite will step up to take their role.

First let's identify where that structure originates. It is a power vacuum
as described by Mancur Olsen as eloquently summarized by the 150+ IQ
genius Eric S Raymond, the guy who explained the models and coined the
term "open source" in this famous The Cathedral and The Bazaar.[1]

This is why we can't fix the problem with global cooperation as you are
pushing for. You are playing right into the synergistic outcome of a more
centralized global order post 2032. The power vacuum must always be filled
so just saying we are going to put the smart people in charge won't work
because that power vacuum demands that those who can promise the most debt
win[1].

The only way to eliminate that power vacuum is with some technology that
makes it impossible to collect tax. READ THIS SENTENCE OVER AND OVER.

Where I believe you are incorrect is that you think the highest echelon of
power elite are not benefiting and synergistic with that structure and the
current outcome you've identified. You see only the dumb shit they (the
pawns of their chessboard) are doing to make the outcome worse. But you
fail to see this is synergistic with them obtaining greater centralized
control post 2032.

What if I told you such a technological solution may be possible? Correct
it isn't Bitcoin. But...I don't know you and you don't know me. I only
know of your work.

And thank you very much for the work you've shared. That is why it is
important for me to argue you when I see a problem in your logic.


[1] Some Iron Laws of Political Economics, http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=984

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