toptek12
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May 17, 2018, 04:54:26 PM
Last edit: May 17, 2018, 05:07:18 PM by toptek12 |
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So again, heres the thing. ASICs do not equal centralization, anyone can buy them, run them, and point them where they want. All you people talk about decentralization as it is some buzzword to trump all others when I dont think you quite have the grasp of what it is. Just because Bitmain is the first to release a miner, does not make it the only manufacturer capable of producing them. You realize Innosilicon, Halong, BW, Obelisk and Baikal (im probably forgetting one or two) all make altcoin ASICs as well right? In the bitcoin space there is even more competition. Just because bitmain is the largest doesnt make them the only one.
Heres another example of your centralization fallacy...I run a large datacenter. I manage over 10,000 GPUs here (and 11k ASICs). As a bulk buyer I get priority over other customers when I order GPUs, and I can run as many as I want here. The only difference is the GPU systems are a pain in the ass and the ASICs are more of a 'set it and forget it' item. Large scale mining on GPUs is already happening...do you really think the shortage of cards was from you hobby miners running 6 or 12 cards? No it was people like me buying them by the thousand until the market ran out of cards to sell. The 12 cards you run versus my 10,000 doesnt help with decentralization at all by your definition of it. You use the word ignorance, which is a bit funny because you are a shining example of it. You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought.
P.S. Ill put your few years of hobby mining up against my years of experience in this industry if you want to brag about how long you have been doing it.
I said it before and I am saying it again, there is no comparison between a ASIC and GPUs availability. MANY Asian countries have ASICS BANNED UNOFFICIALLY, they seize them in customs. Hoarding of ASIC can lead you to jail even if there is no official law on paper. Any central govt. can put a stop to ASICs and the public wouldn't care. It won't take them much to ban ASICs, it is really easy for them. But the same can't be done with GPUs as they were not made for crypto mining and are required by many different industries of which cryptocurrency mining is a very very tiny fraction. A person living in a small town of a third world country can easily buy a GPU, contribute to the network and get some reward for it which is not possible with ASICs due their retail availability and govt restriction. So no, not anybody can buy and run ASICs. That is an illusion. GPU are the real flag bearers of democratic mining. Also ASICs would get more respect if there was more competition in the industry instead of Bitmain's monopoly and shady practices which are against proper functioning of capitalism. gameboy366 > fanatic26 is like a trump troll who lies and make shit up so he can act like his idea of capitalism is the best one an even says it look at what he runs .. sigh ....He doesn't want GPU around any more and wants to shut out the little guy but will act like he doesn't but doesn't care, i can list all his BS an why he thinks CROPS should rule but won't but will in a few words "look up trump ..." He bought Bone Spur's trump into it not me . I love this assumption: "You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought." I wish there was a Mueller for ASIC to prove just how bad ASIC is ... why can't GPU's exist with ASIC there is NO reason why not other then the greedily bastards have to much an now they want it all. |
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toptek12
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May 17, 2018, 05:16:48 PM |
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So again, heres the thing. ASICs do not equal centralization, anyone can buy them, run them, and point them where they want. All you people talk about decentralization as it is some buzzword to trump all others when I dont think you quite have the grasp of what it is. Just because Bitmain is the first to release a miner, does not make it the only manufacturer capable of producing them. You realize Innosilicon, Halong, BW, Obelisk and Baikal (im probably forgetting one or two) all make altcoin ASICs as well right? In the bitcoin space there is even more competition. Just because bitmain is the largest doesnt make them the only one.
Heres another example of your centralization fallacy...I run a large datacenter. I manage over 10,000 GPUs here (and 11k ASICs). As a bulk buyer I get priority over other customers when I order GPUs, and I can run as many as I want here. The only difference is the GPU systems are a pain in the ass and the ASICs are more of a 'set it and forget it' item. Large scale mining on GPUs is already happening...do you really think the shortage of cards was from you hobby miners running 6 or 12 cards? No it was people like me buying them by the thousand until the market ran out of cards to sell. The 12 cards you run versus my 10,000 doesnt help with decentralization at all by your definition of it. You use the word ignorance, which is a bit funny because you are a shining example of it. You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought.
Look dude, I'm done with you. This is my last response to you. You're being ignored after this post. I'm not even going to waste my valuable time responding to you. I'll let you decide when and/or if you will humble yourself in order to deflate that puffed up head of yours. Why? Because it's so puffed up you can't take it out of your arss to see the damn RED PILL to even swallow it. Good riddance... Not wasting my time with you anymore. I'm still LMAO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I'll let you decide when and/or if you will humble yourself in order to deflate that puffed up head of yours. Why? Because it's so puffed up you can't take it out of your arss to see the damn RED PILL to even swallow it." |
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gameboy366
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May 17, 2018, 05:29:06 PM |
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gameboy366 > fanatic26 is like a trump troll who lies and make shit up so he can act like his idea of capitalism is the best one an even says it look at what he runs .. sigh ....He doesn't want GPU around any more and wants to shut out the little guy but will act like he doesn't but doesn't care, i can list all his BS an why he thinks CROPS should rule but won't but will in a few words "look up trump ..." He bought Bone Spur's trump into it not me .
I love this assumption: "You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought." I wish there was a Mueller for ASIC to prove just how bad ASIC is ...
why can't GPU's exist with ASIC there is NO reason why not other then the greedily bastards have to much an now they want it all.
One should also keep in mind about the possibility of interacting with Bitmain's own 50 cent army. CCP spends billions of dollars on their "50 cent army" in trying to manipulate public opinion in favour of them by using internet trolls. I am sure Bitmain is also running a similar "army" which is active here on Bitcointalk. One should still keep these things in mind. |
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toptek12
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May 17, 2018, 05:47:53 PM |
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cryptomined ignore fanatic26 he doesn't appear to be the real fanatic from a while back, I honestly think hes a paid troll from some place trying to piss us off and wants everything ASIC when both GPUs and ASIC can exist to gather ..
toptek That's my old account some one hacked,I'm trying to get back I'm the real owner who would not do what ever that jerk is doing to my account to make it be marked red sigh .......... |
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badfad
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May 17, 2018, 05:55:52 PM |
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Seeing someone saying gpus lead to centralization and then suggesting the problem to that is ASICs is fucking hilarious. Get over yourself dude.
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heavyarms1912
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May 17, 2018, 08:02:28 PM |
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Seeing someone saying gpus lead to centralization and then suggesting the problem to that is ASICs is fucking hilarious. Get over yourself dude.
I yup I pretty much thought the same and avoided to post a response explaining the centralization rationale with GPUs and ASICs. The bottomline is: true, centralization could be achieved even with GPUs but the likelyhood of that happening with GPUs is much much lower than that of ASICs. I mean you've a live example isn't it? https://medium.com/@homakov/stop-calling-bitcoin-decentralized-cb703d69dc27 |
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cryptomined (OP)
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May 18, 2018, 03:20:32 PM
Last edit: May 18, 2018, 06:36:15 PM by cryptomined |
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Hi CryptoMined, Daira, is looking into it tomorrow. It's currently 1:50am for her now.  Thanks, doesn't matter too much to me though since I rarely used the forum for the last year. eitherway  removing the 6 month suspension would show good will on their part though... and would make them look less guilty it is funny shawn got so angry after that video... yet he never stated WHY HE CHANGED THE POST. so my words stand, I will not remove the video or post any kind of retraction. I do consider him an employee of ZEC co... unpaid directly ... fine... but still an employee and representative of the company on their company forum. if shawn really felt that his posts were not a reflection of ZEC co... he would not have edited it. |
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fanatic26
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May 18, 2018, 04:01:06 PM |
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cryptomined ignore fanatic26 he doesn't appear to be the real fanatic from a while back, I honestly think hes a paid troll from some place trying to piss us off and wants everything ASIC when both GPUs and ASIC can exist to gather ..
Oh hell I didnt see this bwaahahahahahahhahahahahahah Im as real as it gets and nobody is paying me for shit. Also you really dont listen to my point. I have never once said GPUs dont have their place. There are hundreds of shitcoins to play with on the GPUs. My whole point is that ASICs are not the devil people make them out to be on this forum, they are the natural progression of a coin once it reaches a certain level. I actually work with GPU mining OS developers on a daily basis, I am not anti GPU at all. I am just not a blind acolyte of the GPU lovers. You can call me anything you want, but a paid shill? No fucking way. Go look at the last few years of logs, and see that the IP range I log in from 99% of the time has changed once, and thats when I moved from one datacenter to my newer, larger one. Calling me a shill because im pointing out that most of you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground is beyond silly. |
Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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ltcsprite
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May 18, 2018, 09:10:54 PM |
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Batch 1 is sold out.  |
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yrk1957
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May 19, 2018, 01:07:52 AM |
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ASICs definitely secure networks better...
must have been GPU miners doing the 51% attack on BTG today...
Jihad Wu would never do anything like that... no .. never... he wouldn't dare test this kind of attack out on smaller cap coins...
zooko was right, ASIC miners can be trusted more than GPU miners... he was right, no problem letting bitmain take over your network....
Would have taken only 5000 odd Z9s to do this. This may end in a war which destroys confidence in smaller coins which decided to fork, which probably was the objective. |
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kadal88
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May 19, 2018, 02:56:27 AM |
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I knew this would happen, reason why I never invested on any equihash coin, there is nothing amazing or brilliant about zec, monero is in many ways better, the only thing i don't like about monero is the high transaction fees ...
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cryptomined (OP)
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May 19, 2018, 05:30:03 AM |
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Would have taken only 5000 odd Z9s to do this. This may end in a war which destroys confidence in smaller coins which decided to fork, which probably was the objective.
you mean All equihash coins if they decide to fork as even zooko has now admitted that bitmain probably has had over 50% of the zcash network hashrate for months now, maybe up to 6 months... from his interview with coindesk at consensus |
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TheronB
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May 19, 2018, 02:03:51 PM |
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You guys are blinded by your own greed and it is hilarious. The only reason you want it to stay GPU is because you dont want to spend money upgrade equipment.
ASICs are a good thing. They strengthen the network ten fold over GPU hashrate. They are cheaper to buy and run than a GPU mining rig.
You guys talking about how you supported the project by mining it are so full of crap. You mined it to make a profit, you dont care about the direction of the coin until it isnt making enough money for you.
You talk about how BTCP, BTG and BitcoinZ are forking away from it. Who cares? They are shitcoins cloned off of other peoples hard work. Zcash actually brought something original to the table, being the first coin to incorporate zk-Snarks and its zero knowledge proof.
Also this crazy idea that miners were "used" to build the hashrate to be good enough for an ASIC? What kind of idiocy is this? Go look up Bytom.....a coin that was unminable until the ASIC came out from bitmain that was developed in concert with the Bytom team.
I mean how have you been taken advantage of? You mined coins and got paid right? You chose to do that, you profited from it, now you are crying about it. The hypocrisy is undeniable.
These wild conspiracy theories should be scrubbed from this forum before some poor fool reads it and believes all of this garbage.
Thanks for being the voice of reason. GPU miners just want the coin manipulated to serve them. WAIT! I thought we needed crypto to take away power from the manipulative banking system. Freaking hilariously hypocritical. |
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TheronB
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May 19, 2018, 02:28:21 PM |
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So show us the proof this was done with ASICs. Crickets chirping... |
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toptek12
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May 19, 2018, 02:37:09 PM
Last edit: May 19, 2018, 02:49:15 PM by toptek12 |
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I agree sense china steals from the US any time they can who to say the CEO doesn't do some shandy shit with butmian there not held account able for anything they do, so why not,is hows they see it and trumps giving china a pass with ZTE makes "China Great again" is the new buzzword.. trump is pading his Picket with 5 billion from ZTE , who knows how much more. cryptomined you were right two year ago about the trump reality show and china is taking advantage of it any way they can including with who controls the cryptosystem. I'm willing to bet the CEO of butmain has to ask china's President to do some stuff to the US and the world or China has a lot of say in what butmain does . |
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cryptomined (OP)
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May 19, 2018, 02:47:29 PM |
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So show us the proof this was done with ASICs.
Prove it was done with GPU's The educated guess would point to ASIC's being used, as it is commonly discussed that this exact attack is the primary risk of ASIC's towards small cap coins... However when one entity currently controls over 50% of the zec network, it is also a risk to zec... and it was zooko that took the educated guess that bitmain has over 50% of network hashrate now.
I agree sense china steals from the US any time they can who to say the CEO doesn't do some shandy shit with butmian there not heard account able for anything they do, so why not i bet is how they see it and trumps giving china a pass with ZTE makes "China Great again" is new the buzzword.. so trump can pad his Picket with 5 billion and who knows how much more ..
cryptomined you were right two year ago about the trump reality show and china is taking advantage of it any they can including with who controls the cryptosystem.
I'm willing to bet the CEO of butmain has to ask china's President to do some stuff to the US and the world or China has a lot of say in what butmain does .
This is a major risk with allowing a chinese company to control the hashrate of any POW coin... bitmain and other chinese ASIC manufactuers can easily be controlled by the chinese government... and that is not a nice thought. (since i live in china i can speak from being on the ground here) |
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toptek12
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May 19, 2018, 02:52:38 PM |
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Prove it was done with GPU's The educated guess would point to ASIC's being used, as it is commonly discussed that this exact attack is the primary risk of ASIC's towards small cap coins... However when one entity currently controls over 50% of the zec network, it is also a risk to zec... and it was zooko that took the educated guess that bitmain has over 50% of network hashrate now.
I agree sense china steals from the US any time they can who to say the CEO doesn't do some shandy shit with butmian there not heard account able for anything they do, so why not i bet is how they see it and trumps giving china a pass with ZTE makes "China Great again" is new the buzzword.. so trump can pad his Picket with 5 billion and who knows how much more ..
cryptomined you were right two year ago about the trump reality show and china is taking advantage of it any they can including with who controls the cryptosystem.
I'm willing to bet the CEO of butmain has to ask china's President to do some stuff to the US and the world or China has a lot of say in what butmain does .
This is a major risk with allowing a chinese company to control the hashrate of any POW coin... bitmain and other chinese ASIC manufactuers can easily be controlled by the chinese government... and that is not a nice thought. (since i live in china i can speak from being on the ground here) Some times you don't need proof that's how obvious it is . sigh .From what I see in Documentary's on TV, YouTube and read about, i thought the Chinese government controlled all the big crops in china . |
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dmwardjr
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Technical Analyst/Trader
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May 19, 2018, 03:04:54 PM |
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Thanks, doesn't matter too much to me though since I rarely used the forum for the last year. eitherway removing the 6 month suspension would show good will on their part though... and would make them look less guilty it is funny shawn got so angry after that video... yet he never stated WHY HE CHANGED THE POST. so my words stand, I will not remove the video or post any kind of retraction. I do consider him an employee of ZEC co... unpaid directly ... fine... but still an employee and representative of the company on their company forum. if shawn really felt that his posts were not a reflection of ZEC co... he would not have edited it. Hi CryptoMined, Sure, I was happy to try, Sir. I agree, it would show good will on their part. Something tells me they won't lift the ban and leave it for 6 months. I consider Shawn an employee as well. You're right, he would not have edited his posts if he was not actually a representative of ZEC co. I'm honestly beginning to have doubts ZEC will fork off ASIC; at least in time enough to avoid doing a lot of harm to GPU miners. It won't be long before we may be forced to mine other Privacy coins that actually forked when others did not. I will have absolutely NOTHING to do with those coins that do not fork off ASIC. N O T H I N G !!! No trading or mining of that coin. I hope a large number of GPU Miners will do the same. I'm about to head to bed. It's currently 10:07am and I've been awake since 3:00pm yesterday (19 hours). Happy Mining, Sir. |
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cryptomined (OP)
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May 19, 2018, 03:10:19 PM |
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Thanks, doesn't matter too much to me though since I rarely used the forum for the last year. eitherway removing the 6 month suspension would show good will on their part though... and would make them look less guilty it is funny shawn got so angry after that video... yet he never stated WHY HE CHANGED THE POST. so my words stand, I will not remove the video or post any kind of retraction. I do consider him an employee of ZEC co... unpaid directly ... fine... but still an employee and representative of the company on their company forum. if shawn really felt that his posts were not a reflection of ZEC co... he would not have edited it. Hi CryptoMined, Sure, I was happy to try, Sir. I agree, it would show good will on their part. Something tells me they won't lift the ban and leave it for 6 months. I consider Shawn an employee as well. You're right, he would not have edited his posts if he was not actually a representative of ZEC co. I'm honestly beginning to have doubts ZEC will fork off ASIC; at least in time enough to avoid doing a lot of harm to GPU miners. It won't be long before we may be forced to mine other Privacy coins that actually forked when others did not. I will have absolutely NOTHING to do with those coins that do not fork off ASIC. N O T H I N G !!! No trading or mining of that coin. I hope a large number of GPU Miners will do the same. I'm about to head to bed. It's currently 10:07am and I've been awake since 3:00pm yesterday (19 hours). Happy Mining, Sir. cool its all good, thanks for trying have a goodnight |
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