Drone Air strike kills 15 civilians (on their way to a wedding) in Yemen

[bryant.coleman]

I saw an interesting video on Russia Today earlier that details all the puppet governments the US have helped instal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLE7Bswz9G8

The problem with that video is that the current Ukraine government is also a puppet government. But it is Russia's puppet not the US'. Don't think the Americans are the only ones playing this geopolitical game of puppet master.

At least the people in Ukraine elected Yanukovych. And he still enjoys widespread public support, although the Western media paints him as an oppressor.

On the otherhand, the US frequently invades other nations, overthrows the democratically elected governments there, and then install the ruler whom they like to rule.

[guybrushthreepwood]

How Drone attacks actually go down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew-SrlQ9tlI

'Ey up, you unbelieving Kufar Bastards. That missile launcher scene had me howling first time I saw it.

[jinni]

I saw an interesting video on Russia Today earlier that details all the puppet governments the US have helped instal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLE7Bswz9G8

The problem with that video is that the current Ukraine government is also a puppet government. But it is Russia's puppet not the US'. Don't think the Americans are the only ones playing this geopolitical game of puppet master.

At least the people in Ukraine elected Yanukovych. And he still enjoys widespread public support, although the Western media paints him as an oppressor.

Oppressive can be a finicky term, but is there any doubt that Yanukovych is rotten to the core? Though a government in Ukraine of any kind that is not mired in overt corruption is hard to imagine.

On the otherhand, the US frequently invades other nations, overthrows the democratically elected governments there, and then install the ruler whom they like to rule.

Yes. This is true. I do not like US interference of the kind we saw in the video. But neither do I like Russian overt pressure to conform to the Russian trading block - hence reaffirming Ukraine's status a puppet of Russia.

As far as I can understand Ukraine is split about in the middle between the Western part that would like to lean towards the EU and the Eastern part that would like to lean towards Russia.

The EU has only applied soft pressure, by offering a trade (and implied association deal) with Ukraine, whereas Russia is using Ukraine's reliance on Russian gas to force their hand. A deal with the EU would still leave the Ukraine free to deal with Russia, but a deal with Russia would not make the country free to deal with the EU.

As I said, I don't agree with what Washington is doing, but the Kremlin is just as bad...if not worse.

[bryant.coleman]

Oppressive can be a finicky term, but is there any doubt that Yanukovych is rotten to the core? Though a government in Ukraine of any kind that is not mired in overt corruption is hard to imagine.

Tymoshenko is more corrupt, when compared to Yanukovych.

The EU has only applied soft pressure, by offering a trade (and implied association deal) with Ukraine, whereas Russia is using Ukraine's reliance on Russian gas to force their hand. A deal with the EU would still leave the Ukraine free to deal with Russia, but a deal with Russia would not make the country free to deal with the EU.

As I said, I don't agree with what Washington is doing, but the Kremlin is just as bad...if not worse.

There is nothing like Soft Pressure. Both the sides are trying to force Ukraine to ally with them. The Western media however, would like to paint this as blackmail by Putin, and carrot and stick by the EU.

[guybrushthreepwood]

I saw an interesting video on Russia Today earlier that details all the puppet governments the US have helped instal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLE7Bswz9G8

The problem with that video is that the current Ukraine government is also a puppet government. But it is Russia's puppet not the US'. Don't think the Americans are the only ones playing this geopolitical game of puppet master.

At least the people in Ukraine elected Yanukovych. And he still enjoys widespread public support, although the Western media paints him as an oppressor.

They'll paint anyone they don't like as an oppressor.

[bryant.coleman]

They'll paint anyone they don't like as an oppressor.

Well.... in some scenarios, an oppressor can become a democratic ruler (provided he suddenly agrees to follow the orders of the US). Example: Saudi king.

In some other scenarios, a democratic ruler can suddenly become an oppressor. Example: Saddam Hussain.

[hilariousandco]

They'll paint anyone they don't like as an oppressor.

Well.... in some scenarios, an oppressor can become a democratic ruler (provided he suddenly agrees to follow the orders of the US). Example: Saudi king.

In some other scenarios, a democratic ruler can suddenly become an oppressor. Example: Saddam Hussain.

I'd hardly say Saddam was democratically elected.

[bryant.coleman]

I'd hardly say Saddam was democratically elected.

I didn't meant that.

I said that, for the US Saddam Hussain was a democratic ruler until the late 1980s. Or better, the Americans viewed Saddam as one of their best allies. They even gave him weapons to fight the Iranians. However, in the late 1980s he became an oppressor for the Americans, after he ignored their pleas to export more oil.

[bryant.coleman]

How Drone attacks actually go down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew-SrlQ9tlI

This nutcase gave up a cozy living in the UK, to fight jihad in Yemen? Something is wrong with the British people lately.

[hilariousandco]

I'd hardly say Saddam was democratically elected.

I didn't meant that.

I said that, for the US Saddam Hussain was a democratic ruler until the late 1980s. Or better, the Americans viewed Saddam as one of their best allies. They even gave him weapons to fight the Iranians. However, in the late 1980s he became an oppressor for the Americans, after he ignored their pleas to export more oil.

What do you mean by democratic ruler?

Saddam and America were very pally with each other. USA usually is friends with tyrants, until they do something that isn't in their business interests.

[guybrushthreepwood]

How Drone attacks actually go down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew-SrlQ9tlI

This nutcase gave up a cozy living in the UK, to fight jihad in Yemen? Something is wrong with the British people lately.

You do know it's a comedy, right? lol

[hilariousandco]

How Drone attacks actually go down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew-SrlQ9tlI

This nutcase gave up a cozy living in the UK, to fight jihad in Yemen? Something is wrong with the British people lately.

You do know it's a comedy, right? lol

It's actually a documentary about British Jihadis.

[bryant.coleman]

What do you mean by democratic ruler?

Oh God! How many times I have to tell? As far as I am concerned Saddam was a dictator. But for the Americans (i.e until 1980s) he was a democratically elected leader, or so the media told us. 

Saddam and America were very pally with each other. USA usually is friends with tyrants, until they do something that isn't in their business interests.

I found most of the (recent) US presidents much more tyrannous than Saddam. 

[hilariousandco]

What do you mean by democratic ruler?

Oh God! How many times I have to tell? As far as I am concerned Saddam was a dictator. But for the Americans (i.e until 1980s) he was a democratically elected leader, or so the media told us. 

Yeah, well I don't think the media know or understand the definition of a dictator or a tyrant.

[yatsey87]

What do you mean by democratic ruler?

Oh God! How many times I have to tell? As far as I am concerned Saddam was a dictator. But for the Americans (i.e until 1980s) he was a democratically elected leader, or so the media told us. 

Yeah, well I don't think the media know or understand the definition of a dictator or a tyrant.

I think they do, they just selectively apply it.

[dc0ded]

This is just terrible.

Obama's drone program is one the most cowardly and disgusting things this world has ever seen.

I would have agreed but its not just Obama to be blamed but presidents before him too. Drones are really the most coward weaponry to be used at war. The government won't have anyone to answer while killing, as there will be never an American life lost at war using drones.

The world expects more from the US. But I think its not the American people but just the capitalists controlling the decisions.

[hilariousandco]

This is just terrible.

Obama's drone program is one the most cowardly and disgusting things this world has ever seen.

I would have agreed but its not just Obama to be blamed but presidents before him too. Drones are really the most coward weaponry to be used at war. The government won't have anyone to answer while killing, as there will be never an American life lost at war using drones.

The world expects more from the US. But I think its not the American people but just the capitalists controlling the decisions.

True, but Obama has used them more than Bush ever did.

[bryant.coleman]

I would have agreed but its not just Obama to be blamed but presidents before him too. Drones are really the most coward weaponry to be used at war. The government won't have anyone to answer while killing, as there will be never an American life lost at war using drones.

The world expects more from the US. But I think its not the American people but just the capitalists controlling the decisions.

Drones are cowardly. But look at the options which are tabled before the American President. Manned missions increases the risk of casualties, and this can provoke strong political reactions back home. Using unmanned drones makes sure that there is no casualty on the American side. So there is no pressure from the public back home. And increase in the civilian casualties on the war-zone..... well that doesn't matter. At least as long as those who are being killed are non-Americans.

[Wilikon]

The war in Iraq is over, and the war in Afghanistan is ending, but unmanned aerial drones continue to wage an expansive war on terrorism. Obama has ratcheted up his predecessor’s tactic of deploying unmanned aircraft into Pakistan and Yemen to kill supposed terrorists (even U.S. citizens). Since Obama took office, media outlets have reported more than 300 drone strikes in Pakistan targeting al-Qaeda or the Taliban, outnumbering the Bush administration’s drone strikes five to one. Supporters say the strikes are an efficient way to kill militants, while critics say the strikes kill too many civilians, spur terrorist recruitment, shirk judicial oversight, and represent an abuse of presidential power. This map, which is based on data from the New America Foundation, displays the location and kill count of reported drone strikes since 2004 and shows that Obama has greatly extended the drone program.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2012/06/obama_drone_strikes_the_president_ordered_more_than_george_w_bush.html

[hilariousandco]

The war in Iraq is over, and the war in Afghanistan is ending, but unmanned aerial drones continue to wage an expansive war on terrorism. Obama has ratcheted up his predecessor’s tactic of deploying unmanned aircraft into Pakistan and Yemen to kill supposed terrorists (even U.S. citizens). Since Obama took office, media outlets have reported more than 300 drone strikes in Pakistan targeting al-Qaeda or the Taliban, outnumbering the Bush administration’s drone strikes five to one. Supporters say the strikes are an efficient way to kill militants, while critics say the strikes kill too many civilians, spur terrorist recruitment, shirk judicial oversight, and represent an abuse of presidential power. This map, which is based on data from the New America Foundation, displays the location and kill count of reported drone strikes since 2004 and shows that Obama has greatly extended the drone program.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2012/06/obama_drone_strikes_the_president_ordered_more_than_george_w_bush.html

Fucking hell, and that's just Pakistan.