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Author Topic: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design -  (Read 21068 times)
intron
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December 14, 2013, 02:09:50 PM
 #1

We did a 15 bitfury miner design using the proprietary
'string' feature this ASIC has. In a string, all chips are
arranged in a series configuration and power is applied
accordingly. So instead of a low voltage/high current
power supply, a less exotic power source can be used,
driving down cost considerably and taking up less board
area.

The board measures 70 x 100 mm, is powered with 12 Volt
and has a USB interface. As no DC/DC converter is needed,
BOM costs can be well below $ 10 (ex. PCB and cooling).

Hashrate can be compared to conventional designs and
overclocking can be achieved by just increasing the supply
voltage within certain limits. Reported hashrate is with 12V8
power supply and with a 2A6 current.

Cooling for the prototype was done using a low-cost
CPU heatsink. Temperatures measured on the PCB were
in the 50..70 oC range.







intron & c-scape

Note: Some images were retouched to protect our IP.
Hope you understand.
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intron
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December 14, 2013, 02:10:07 PM
 #2

- reserved -
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December 14, 2013, 02:37:21 PM
 #3

How much?

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December 14, 2013, 02:38:42 PM
 #4

Well done Intron and c-scape !

Selling a miner based on this design is planned ?
intron
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December 14, 2013, 02:43:22 PM
 #5

How much?

We don't sell miners, we only design miners.

The design can be purchased so other parties can
produce them. We have not set definitive prices
or conditions yet, just probing interrest for now.

intron
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December 14, 2013, 03:04:10 PM
 #6

looks nice guys! But if the BF chip situation stays the same..

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December 14, 2013, 04:51:07 PM
 #7

with hashfast announcing 500 GH / chip .. this is ... dust in the wind ... all respect for your work tho !
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December 14, 2013, 04:52:10 PM
 #8

If the bitfury chips become available again, the higher difficulty requires a cheap board. A design like this has minimal BOM cost, so it will be a good solution.

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December 14, 2013, 04:58:50 PM
 #9

with hashfast announcing 500 GH / chip .. this is ... dust in the wind ... all respect for your work tho !

What's their total cost for the chip, board, power regulators and cooling system ?

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December 15, 2013, 09:16:17 PM
 #10

The other side of the board has 15 different ground planes. The radiator can short them. Do you use a thermal pad between PCB and a heatsink? Or all ground covered with protective mask?

PS: Well done.
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December 15, 2013, 10:10:03 PM
 #11

didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted?

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December 15, 2013, 10:12:37 PM
 #12

If the bitfury chips become available again, the higher difficulty requires a cheap board. A design like this has minimal BOM cost, so it will be a good solution.

Prices for bitfury chips might need to go down too. Can't have those ridiculous prices anymore.

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December 15, 2013, 10:20:36 PM
 #13

The other side of the board has 15 different ground planes. The radiator can short them. Do you use a thermal pad between PCB and a heatsink? Or all ground covered with protective mask?

PS: Well done.

Smart guy:) It's Sil-Pad here.



intron
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December 15, 2013, 10:27:42 PM
 #14

didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted?

Yes, you are right. We did that design, but we
didn't operate the board, no idea why it went
down in flames. Our strings board is running
solid now for days and days on end.

intron
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December 15, 2013, 11:34:43 PM
 #15

didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted?

As a side note: this string configuration of chips is beyond brilliant,
I think we must honour Valery for this. I have never seen anyone
doing this before. It makes board design so much simpler, elegant
and less costly.

intron
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December 15, 2013, 11:41:49 PM
 #16

Very nice. Are you using your own custom miner software?
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December 15, 2013, 11:56:47 PM
 #17

didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted?

As a side note: this string configuration of chips is beyond brilliant,
I think we must honour Valery for this. I have never seen anyone
doing this before. It makes board design so much simpler, elegant
and less costly.

intron


+1

BF is the most integrated chip design of all SHA-256 hashers. It's like Intel Haswell with included clock, Vreg, and logic. What's missing is auto-overclock and p-states Wink just jk.

btw which MCU are you using? Thanks!

Looking to review Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
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December 16, 2013, 12:02:29 AM
 #18

didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted?

As a side note: this string configuration of chips is beyond brilliant,
I think we must honour Valery for this. I have never seen anyone
doing this before. It makes board design so much simpler, elegant
and less costly.

intron


+1

BF is the most integrated chip design of all SHA-256 hashers. It's like Intel Haswell with included clock, Vreg, and logic. What's missing is auto-overclock and p-states Wink just jk.

btw which MCU are you using? Thanks!

all i can say is: thank god this design does not rely on a Raspberry Pi controller. Somehow my bitfury rig went its first 20 shutdown cycles without any issue, but since then it seems everytime i need to adjust it, the card is damaged. Just today i had to format it, run for 10 min, make the new chainminer, then after a few min of 0.000 results i used sudo reboot and the SD is dead again

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December 16, 2013, 12:04:42 AM
 #19

didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted?

As a side note: this string configuration of chips is beyond brilliant,
I think we must honour Valery for this. I have never seen anyone
doing this before. It makes board design so much simpler, elegant
and less costly.

intron


+1

BF is the most integrated chip design of all SHA-256 hashers. It's like Intel Haswell with included clock, Vreg, and logic. What's missing is auto-overclock and p-states Wink just jk.

btw which MCU are you using? Thanks!

A tiny NXP ARM, LPC11U24FHI33/301.

intron
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December 16, 2013, 06:30:43 AM
 #20

Very nice. Are you using your own custom miner software?
The USB interface protocol is the same as for bi*fury, so the latest cgminer/bfgminer version can be used.

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December 16, 2013, 07:29:28 AM
 #21

A tiny NXP ARM, LPC11U24FHI33/301.

Note that the design is not dependent on the exact type of microcontroller. As long as it has a built-in USB interface, some I/O pins, and a few kB of RAM, it can be used in the design. We picked the LPC because we had already used it on the bi*fury.

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December 17, 2013, 02:07:36 AM
 #22

neat and amazing job... are you guys planning to do the same for the latest avalon chips?
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December 17, 2013, 03:53:21 AM
 #23

I don't think Avalon chips have a String feature.

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December 17, 2013, 09:56:33 AM
 #24

I really like this design Smiley
intron
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December 17, 2013, 10:03:10 AM
 #25

I really like this design Smiley

You can have it:-)

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December 17, 2013, 10:04:15 AM
 #26

It can be done with any chips, but requires extra components (opamp + mosfet)

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December 17, 2013, 10:10:57 AM
 #27

So when will we see this hitting the streets?

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December 17, 2013, 10:38:33 AM
 #28

now get this to hash scrypt!....nice design.

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December 17, 2013, 10:54:47 AM
 #29

now get this to hash scrypt!....nice design.

Hand me some chips, we'll make you a miner:)
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December 17, 2013, 11:17:39 AM
 #30

Good job guys. I really like new design ideas!

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December 17, 2013, 09:48:04 PM
 #31

This is the kind of design you need for a massive yet more cost effective mining farm. If had a bunch of bitfury chip reels guess what I'd be doing....

Congrats to intro and team for innovative board designs.


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December 18, 2013, 12:14:28 AM
 #32

Intron - Is this design based on the same idea that Tytus had:

2. 8-chip cards that were supposed to give more hashrate per chip using the same 30Amp power regulator, this design failed !!! the new PCB was designed as 2 layers and it generates too much noise to connect 2 h-cards in one bank ... so we can use such cards only in the last position of the bank.
3. provisional 5V string designs [no power regulator], this is a very promising design, chips run very clean and fast, but require cooling. If this is not provided or if it fails, chips heat up, leakage increases, chips consume more power and heat up more and melt and burn finally http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG, http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300316.JPG ... the chips don't have any thermal sensors so I am still thinking how to detect such problems using the hardware we have.
(in case the images above don't work here are the two images again: http://imgur.com/D7yH26n and http://imgur.com/gqVOtA5 )

and where you later commented that it was an experiment that went out of control -

What's that pic ... the new boards?

and what's that pic ? ^^

http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG

It's an experiment that went a bit out of control.
The latest scientific explanation I heard is that
"the boards don't like women." Not really sure
about that though:)

intron

So basically - is it the same design? If so - what has been done (and was there anything done) to avoid the same outcome as tytus' ?

And just out of curiosity - are you guys going to be publishing the design schematics?

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December 18, 2013, 01:00:26 AM
 #33

Intron - Is this design based on the same idea that Tytus had:

2. 8-chip cards that were supposed to give more hashrate per chip using the same 30Amp power regulator, this design failed !!! the new PCB was designed as 2 layers and it generates too much noise to connect 2 h-cards in one bank ... so we can use such cards only in the last position of the bank.
3. provisional 5V string designs [no power regulator], this is a very promising design, chips run very clean and fast, but require cooling. If this is not provided or if it fails, chips heat up, leakage increases, chips consume more power and heat up more and melt and burn finally http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG, http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300316.JPG ... the chips don't have any thermal sensors so I am still thinking how to detect such problems using the hardware we have.
(in case the images above don't work here are the two images again: http://imgur.com/D7yH26n and http://imgur.com/gqVOtA5 )

and where you later commented that it was an experiment that went out of control -

What's that pic ... the new boards?

and what's that pic ? ^^

http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG

It's an experiment that went a bit out of control.
The latest scientific explanation I heard is that
"the boards don't like women." Not really sure
about that though:)

intron

So basically - is it the same design? If so - what has been done (and was there anything done) to avoid the same outcome as tytus' ?

And just out of curiosity - are you guys going to be publishing the design schematics?

this was my concern too, but intron's design has its own controller, so perhaps (hopefully) it is capable of detecting a lost chip and acting (restart the mining process or turn off) so that we dont see a bunch of home fires and molten PCBs

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December 18, 2013, 07:31:30 AM
 #34

Intron - Is this design based on the same idea that Tytus had:

2. 8-chip cards that were supposed to give more hashrate per chip using the same 30Amp power regulator, this design failed !!! the new PCB was designed as 2 layers and it generates too much noise to connect 2 h-cards in one bank ... so we can use such cards only in the last position of the bank.
3. provisional 5V string designs [no power regulator], this is a very promising design, chips run very clean and fast, but require cooling. If this is not provided or if it fails, chips heat up, leakage increases, chips consume more power and heat up more and melt and burn finally http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG, http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300316.JPG ... the chips don't have any thermal sensors so I am still thinking how to detect such problems using the hardware we have.
(in case the images above don't work here are the two images again: http://imgur.com/D7yH26n and http://imgur.com/gqVOtA5 )

and where you later commented that it was an experiment that went out of control -

What's that pic ... the new boards?

and what's that pic ? ^^

http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG

It's an experiment that went a bit out of control.
The latest scientific explanation I heard is that
"the boards don't like women." Not really sure
about that though:)

intron

So basically - is it the same design? If so - what has been done (and was there anything done) to avoid the same outcome as tytus' ?

And just out of curiosity - are you guys going to be publishing the design schematics?

this was my concern too, but intron's design has its own controller, so perhaps (hopefully) it is capable of detecting a lost chip and acting (restart the mining process or turn off) so that we dont see a bunch of home fires and molten PCBs

The microcontroller is pretty much irrelevant for that issue.

The issue that Tytus had is the same one that you get with any Christmas lights string - if one light shorts the rest get some extra voltage. If two short, the remaining lights get even more overpowered. And it gets worse and worse even faster until they all melt and/or the fuse blows.
Or if one light burns - they all die.

In tytus' case he was getting the first option - when chips overheat they tend to use more power and then they start overheating even further even faster until they hit the limit and the melting point. At which point you get either a short in one of the chips (and then everything dies very quickly), or the chip cuts the string and again everything dies. Actually my preference would be for the second option - at least the rest of the chips may survive Smiley
Unfortunately (or fortunately?) bitfury's chip has a very solid design, and it's much easier to melt the silicon inside than to burn all of those power wires.

Bitfury said at some point that he gave up on that design (quoting various reasons) but as time goes people may have found a workaround - and if that's the case - lots of respect for intron and co!

And I guess that's the root of my question - is it some novel approach?

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December 19, 2013, 05:28:53 PM
 #35

We have three One String boards hashing now,
looks like performance is rock solid.

Board temperature well below 45 oC. Hottest
ASIC about 70 oC.




intron

PS: The little blip in the green trace was
cgminer going down and needed restarting:)
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December 19, 2013, 07:03:44 PM
 #36

Ok, so the selling point on these isn't so much the hashrate as the lower cost of the power supply? You are losing me there. can you give an example of a typical power supply used and a lower cost alternative? I'm not sure what we are talking about.
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December 19, 2013, 07:06:54 PM
 #37

This design uses 12V to power the chips directly. Other designs, such as the H-CARD have an on-board 12V -> 0.8V power regulator with 30-50Amp capability.

In both cases, you need a 12V supply, but for our new board, you avoid the additional cost of the 0.8V regulator. Also, the 0.8V regulator is typically only about 90% efficient, so it creates 10% more heat for the same hashrate. The powerful switching regulator also produces lots of electrical interference that can degrade reliability of the overall system, and requires additional components (capacitors/inductors) to help reduce the noise.

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December 19, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
 #38

This design uses 12V to power the chips directly. Other designs, such as the H-CARD have an on-board 12V -> 0.8V power regulator with 30-50Amp capability.

In both cases, you need a 12V supply, but for our new board, you avoid the additional cost of the 0.8V regulator.

Oh, so the cost savings is in the parts list, not the actual power supply. The only reason i asked is that i'm getting tired of miners requiring ATX power supplies. Unless you get a modular one you have to deal with a bunch of unneeded cables. also they take up more room than a power brick. Unless you use some sort of case to put your miner in, your work space can become quite messy/unwieldy. This is one of the reasons i won't buy ASICminer Cubes, 1-2 Cubes per powersupply can make for a lot of power supplies laying around. I'm a Hobbyist.
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December 19, 2013, 07:20:48 PM
 #39

But this design has a very big disadvantage. If the first chip in the series connection got damaged the other chips doesnt work anymore, too.

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December 19, 2013, 07:23:43 PM
 #40

But this design has a very big disadvantage. If the first chip in the series connection got damaged the other chips doesnt work anymore, too.

That depends on the exact nature of the damage. If the hashing core is damaged (which makes up the biggest part of the chip), the chip may still provide a working connection to the other chips.

It's not much different than low-voltage bitfury designs, such as the H-CARD. In those designs the communication between the chips also forms a chain. Actually, the M-BOARD has 4 H-CARDS with total of 64 chips in each chain.

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December 19, 2013, 07:26:42 PM
 #41

Oh, so the cost savings is in the parts list, not the actual power supply.

Correct. You still need a 12V power supply. Each card draws about 2-2.5 Amps, depending on the exact voltage.

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December 19, 2013, 07:40:13 PM
 #42

Ok, so the selling point on these isn't so much the hashrate as the lower cost of the power supply? You are losing me there. can you give an example of a typical power supply used and a lower cost alternative? I'm not sure what we are talking about.

Just as an example, take a look at the HashFast board: almost
50% is taken up by the DC/DC converting circuitery providing
for the low voltage/high current the chip needs.

In a string design this DC/DC conversion is no longer needed,
so taking up no PCB area and not adding to the Bill of Materials.

intron
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December 19, 2013, 07:45:40 PM
 #43

And it's not just the cost of the components, but also the availability of some of the more exotic ones.

Another factor is the circuit board design. The fast switching DC/DC regulators typically require at least a 4-layer board for good performance. The One String design uses a cheap 2-layer board.

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December 19, 2013, 07:50:31 PM
 #44

Might be a more interesting design if the chips were priced anywhere near the marginal cost of manufacturer, but with them priced like they were solid gold— the cost of the additional electronics and the reliability concerns may outweigh the benefits.

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December 19, 2013, 07:55:39 PM
 #45

These boards don't have additional electronics. On the contrary, a lot of the expensive components have been removed, and the 2-layer board is cheaper too.

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December 19, 2013, 08:35:54 PM
 #46

These boards don't have additional electronics. On the contrary, a lot of the expensive components have been removed, and the 2-layer board is cheaper too.
Yes, I know. I was attempting and failing to say that the because the chips are so costly the additional electronics are not that substantial, and considering the reliability concerns the efficiencies gained may not be worth it.  E.g. you save $x on support electronics but increase the failure rate by y% then if its a win or not depends on the price of the chips.

E.g. if chips cost a million dollars a piece and you save $20/chip on electronics at the cost of a 0.01% increase in failures its not a win.

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December 19, 2013, 08:45:29 PM
 #47

So far, we have no indication of increased failure rate. The prototypes that we have are rock solid with constant temperature and constant hashing speed. In a couple of weeks, we'll make a few dozen more boards, and we'll see what happens to the failure rate.

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December 19, 2013, 08:46:28 PM
 #48

I was attempting and failing to say that the because the chips are so costly the additional electronics are not that substantial

That will change. The chips are going down to $5/chip.

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December 19, 2013, 08:54:11 PM
 #49

That will change. The chips are going down to $5/chip.

Either they will go to $5/chip and lower, or they will not be sold at all. In the first case, you need a cheap, low-overhead, mining board. In the second case, you don't need a mining board at all.

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December 19, 2013, 09:13:16 PM
 #50

Fair enough.

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December 19, 2013, 10:04:44 PM
 #51

So when, where and how much?

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December 19, 2013, 11:22:29 PM
 #52

So when, where and how much?

I would like to know that for the 5$/ bitfury chip, because if you are asking about boards, then find out that they don't sell boards. Only the design.

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December 20, 2013, 01:25:10 AM
 #53

i'm still not sure if my concern was fully answered; what makes this board design work when the H-board string design ended in molten plastic and scorched PCB?

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December 20, 2013, 06:31:03 AM
 #54

i'm still not sure if my concern was fully answered; what makes this board design work when the H-board string design ended in molten plastic and scorched PCB?
We have a better design Smiley

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December 20, 2013, 07:16:54 AM
 #55

The problem with this design is that it requires the 12V power supply to be very well regulated (and adjustable if you want to overclock). Normal ATX PSUs are not that well regulated (ATX spec provides for up to +-5% tolerance on the 12V line (older spec allowed 10%).

On the other hand, I could buy a big well regulated (and adjustable, or at least modify it to be adjustable) 12V PSU and connect a lot of the boards to it. Then it comes to what is cheaper - A standard ATX PSU (I can sometimes get them cheap by taking failed ones and repairing them) and regulators in each board or an expensive PSU and no regulators. I guess the "no regulators" design wins over for large numbers of boards, while the traditional design is better for a few boards.

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December 20, 2013, 07:45:04 AM
 #56

The on-board 0.8V, 30A regulator would add about $15-$20 to the design. For 10-15 cards, the money saved would buy a good PSU with voltage trim option.

Either way, the cards work fine if the voltage isn't perfectly regulated. They just run a bit cooler under 12V, and a bit faster/hotter over 12V.

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December 20, 2013, 08:47:16 AM
 #57

So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips Wink
PowerMatrix Wink

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December 20, 2013, 11:24:11 AM
 #58

So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips Wink
PowerMatrix Wink

We did that already. It's called X-HASH:)

intron
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December 20, 2013, 05:35:58 PM
 #59

So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips Wink
PowerMatrix Wink

We did that already. It's called X-HASH:)

intron

and how did that work?
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December 20, 2013, 05:46:45 PM
 #60

So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips Wink
PowerMatrix Wink

We did that already. It's called X-HASH:)

intron

and how did that work?

It takes so many bitfury chips to test it, we were
reluctant to try it. That's why we started with the
smaller strings.

intron
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December 20, 2013, 06:18:02 PM
 #61

Quote
Oh, so the cost savings is in the parts list, not the actual power supply. The only reason i asked is that i'm getting tired of miners requiring ATX power supplies. Unless you get a modular one you have to deal with a bunch of unneeded cables. also they take up more room than a power brick. Unless you use some sort of case to put your miner in, your work space can become quite messy/unwieldy. This is one of the reasons i won't buy ASICminer Cubes, 1-2 Cubes per powersupply can make for a lot of power supplies laying around. I'm a Hobbyist.

In the next day or two I should have prototype information available for an interface board designed to break out server supplies for use with miners; these can typically be found for much cheaper than an equivalent output/efficiency ATX supply and usually exhibit better regulation. Screw terminals so you only use what wires you want, and additional output filtering. They're also designed to be run in parallel with load sharing and daisy-chain for automatic power-on in groups.


Quote
The problem with this design is that it requires the 12V power supply to be very well regulated (and adjustable if you want to overclock). Normal ATX PSUs are not that well regulated (ATX spec provides for up to +-5% tolerance on the 12V line (older spec allowed 10%).

If enough people want it, I'll look into adding a trimmer to tweak output voltages.


Been watching this thread; series power dropping chips (if it can be done reliably) is such a darn cool idea and if someone ends up making these boards affordably (and chips are available for not a bajillion dollars) I'll definitely be in the market. Good work, guys.

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December 20, 2013, 07:09:06 PM
 #62

So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips Wink
PowerMatrix Wink

We did that already. It's called X-HASH:)

intron

and how did that work?

It takes so many bitfury chips to test it, we were
reluctant to try it. That's why we started with the
smaller strings.

intron


are there any photographs available of said x-hash or was one ever fabbed?

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December 20, 2013, 07:14:15 PM
 #63

So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips Wink
PowerMatrix Wink

We did that already. It's called X-HASH:)

intron

and how did that work?

It takes so many bitfury chips to test it, we were
reluctant to try it. That's why we started with the
smaller strings.

intron

are there any photographs available of said x-hash or was one ever fabbed?

No, the board was only designed, never made (yet).
As I mentioned, we didn't want to risk a lot of bitfury
chips for just one experiment.

intron


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December 21, 2013, 10:06:59 AM
 #64

In the next day or two I should have prototype information available for an interface board designed to break out server supplies for use with miners; these can typically be found for much cheaper than an equivalent output/efficiency ATX supply and usually exhibit better regulation. Screw terminals so you only use what wires you want, and additional output filtering. They're also designed to be run in parallel with load sharing and daisy-chain for automatic power-on in groups.
I have repaired a couple of power supplies used in Supermicro servers (Ablecom forgot the part number). While I still do not know the full pinout of the connector, I found which two traces to short inside to turn it on. Aslong as the power supply is not fully digital, it should not be difficult to use it. Still, the regular ATX PSUs are simpler and easier to fix Smiley
Quote
If enough people want it, I'll look into adding a trimmer to tweak output voltages.
Traditional (not digital) power supplies can be modified to adjust he output voltage just by controlling the feedback. However, if you want the adjustment to be external to the power supply (so you don't need to open the PSU), then youwill have to use a powerful regulator and the total cost will probably be higher than an adjustable PSU.

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December 24, 2013, 02:40:18 PM
 #65

Had five Ones String boards hashing for some
time, performance looks nice and stable and
no thermal runaways.



intron
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December 25, 2013, 06:00:09 PM
 #66

No, the board was only designed, never made (yet).
As I mentioned, we didn't want to risk a lot of bitfury
chips for just one experiment.
I don't think it will work better than several strings in paralel. The chip seems to like constant current more than constant voltage, but the built in regulator will try to equalize the voltage across paraleled chips and if they are not equal, they will not perform at their best ... and you save nothing more than few resistors on the SPI. I have my strings running on 24V better than on 12V, probably because the current is more stable

I hope the chips will be cheap and freely available in volume soon - my idea is to run the string directly on 220V, which also risks a lot of chips for the experiment, but will save additional 10-20% of power efficiency ... just not sure if RPi will be capable of running 350-400 chips in a string and also there is the lower SPI speed with the increased string length

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December 26, 2013, 12:52:44 AM
 #67

No, the board was only designed, never made (yet).
As I mentioned, we didn't want to risk a lot of bitfury
chips for just one experiment.
I don't think it will work better than several strings in paralel. The chip seems to like constant current more than constant voltage, but the built in regulator will try to equalize the voltage across paraleled chips and if they are not equal, they will not perform at their best ... and you save nothing more than few resistors on the SPI. I have my strings running on 24V better than on 12V, probably because the current is more stable

I hope the chips will be cheap and freely available in volume soon - my idea is to run the string directly on 220V, which also risks a lot of chips for the experiment, but will save additional 10-20% of power efficiency ... just not sure if RPi will be capable of running 350-400 chips in a string and also there is the lower SPI speed with the increased string length

Did you try placing chips in parallel? I'm also not
sure whether to make seperate strings or connect
all nodes with the same voltage level together.
Biggest challenge is the huge amount of chips you
have to sacrifice for a single experiment that might
run haywire:)

And this 220V string is af course the optimum you
can get in cost efficency:) Looked into a rectifier
for this, it's not easy, mainly due to the current that
is needed.


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December 26, 2013, 04:36:19 PM
 #68

Did you try placing chips in parallel?
Didn't even tried that. During my tests i have discovered that each chip requires a bit different voltage for optimal speed, but always the same amps, so it's like the chip 'wants' to be serially connected Smiley
Quote
And this 220V string is af course the optimum you
can get in cost efficency:) Looked into a rectifier
for this, it's not easy, mainly due to the current that
is needed.
You need 2-2.5A for the string ... let's make them 3A = 600uF for 0.1V @50Hz it's not that much and expensive, but still, the main ripple regulator should be the current limiter for the string and then each chip for itself (via it's current mirror)

One of the problems is that the grid voltage is not so stable, you need protection from the (kA) spikes, so you will definitely need an UPS (and if it's on-line model with 220V to 110V conversion, you can go with shorter strings), but then you'll loose in efficiency again Sad
The second one is, the string length will reduce the SPI speed and the third one is that RPi (or dedicated MCU) may not be able to drive that much chips

EDIT: Ooops it's 300mF not 600uF, so you are right it will be expensive

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December 29, 2013, 07:44:51 PM
 #69

Had five Ones String boards hashing for some
time, performance looks nice and stable and
no thermal runaways.



intron

Well done folks !

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January 03, 2014, 11:59:59 PM
 #70

Hi

Are you able to make me this miner if I get the chips

Cheers
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January 04, 2014, 01:32:19 PM
 #71

Hi

Are you able to make me this miner if I get the chips

Cheers

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370932.msg3963420#msg3963420
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January 10, 2014, 09:40:01 PM
 #72

Fastest USB miner at this moment:





Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running
from a 5.5 Volts supply.

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January 10, 2014, 09:53:07 PM
 #73

Fastest USB miner at this moment:

Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running
from a 5.5 Volts supply.

intron

How much?

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January 10, 2014, 10:10:41 PM
 #74

Fastest USB miner at this moment:

Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running
from a 5.5 Volts supply.

intron

How much?

PM-ed you.
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January 10, 2014, 11:18:04 PM
 #75

Fastest USB miner at this moment
...
from a 5.5 Volts supply.
So it's not powered from the USB, but from an external power supply ?

Even at the minimum 0.6W/Gh the BF chips are capable of - 15Gh is 9W, which is not possible from a single USB port be it even 3.0
With 2x USB 3.0 or 4x USB 2.0 it is doable

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January 10, 2014, 11:24:00 PM
 #76

nice USb, but i dont understand why - it draws far too much power for a USB port, so for the effort of getting it to work it seems like a much easier idea to go with the one-string or other design that uses 12V and holds more chips

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January 10, 2014, 11:32:34 PM
 #77

please pm the price for hex fury , thanks
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January 10, 2014, 11:37:34 PM
 #78

nice USb, but i dont understand why - it draws far too much power for a USB port, so for the effort of getting it to work it seems like a much easier idea to go with the one-string or other design that uses 12V and holds more chips

It takes about 2.5 Amps, you can power it from
an USB hub. And it also has a seperate power
input that feeds the bitfury ASICs. When this
option is chosen then the USB has to power
only the processor.

And indeed, we were just playing around a bit...Wink



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January 11, 2014, 03:40:22 AM
 #79

Hi intron, please PM me price for hex-fury. 

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January 11, 2014, 04:13:32 AM
 #80

nice USb, but i dont understand why - it draws far too much power for a USB port, so for the effort of getting it to work it seems like a much easier idea to go with the one-string or other design that uses 12V and holds more chips

It takes about 2.5 Amps, you can power it from
an USB hub. And it also has a seperate power
input that feeds the bitfury ASICs. When this
option is chosen then the USB has to power
only the processor.

And indeed, we were just playing around a bit...Wink





Extremely promising design. Congrats Smiley what is the controller chip that you are using? Thanks!

Looking to review Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
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January 11, 2014, 07:01:31 AM
 #81

Fastest USB miner at this moment:

http://i.imgur.com/nFqPO7d.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MjCPOg4.gif

Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running
from a 5.5 Volts supply.

intron

awesome. someone actually made a 6 chip version. i'd thought about making a 6 chip stick when the sample chips first came out (but our first design failed and we gave up)...I think this is the best bang for the buck you can get out of bitfury chips in a USB stick form factor.
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January 11, 2014, 07:03:13 AM
 #82

I think this is the best bang for the buck you can get out of bitfury chips in a USB stick form factor.

Yes, that was the idea. Total BOM cost is about $4, excluding bitfury ASICs.

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January 12, 2014, 02:46:02 PM
 #83

How much (PM please  Wink)

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January 12, 2014, 04:33:46 PM
 #84

Hi guys,

it's really nice work you've done there. Interested in getting one of them! Smiley

Greetings,
Silv0r

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January 13, 2014, 04:24:53 AM
 #85

please pm with prices Cheesy please and thank you

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January 13, 2014, 06:45:11 AM
 #86

Are the chips available now ? If so a roundabout price ?

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January 13, 2014, 06:55:52 AM
 #87

Are the chips available now ? If so a roundabout price ?
No they won't be back in stock until February

Message me if you have any problems
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January 13, 2014, 08:37:02 AM
 #88

I really like the One String miner. Wish i had some bitfury chips right bout now. Is this what Dave was carrying with him at Inside Bitcoins Las Vegas?

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January 13, 2014, 08:54:55 AM
 #89

I really like the One String miner. Wish i had some bitfury chips right bout now. Is this what Dave was carrying with him at Inside Bitcoins Las Vegas?

Don't think so:)
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January 14, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
 #90

Intron, Cscape,
         Very nice work! Just when i thought I've seen it all, you come a long and surprise me.
in your opinion, what are the possibilities this will become a standard with new ASIC chip designs from others?
Hopefully other ASIC competitors will take notice.
No DCDC converter with only two layer PCBs is a huge win in price reduction.

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January 14, 2014, 06:21:44 PM
 #91

No DCDC converter with only two layer PCBs is a huge win in price reduction.
Many thanks to bitfury - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.msg2411923#msg2411923 he designed the chip with that in mind ... so far no one picked up that trend and we are still far from the best design of a chip, but if he fixes the few small problems for V2 (which i am sure he is working on and wish him a luck with that) - that will be the best of both worlds: high hashrate and cheap board.
Many thanks to Intron and Cscape for their work too - they have showed to the public that it's possible and hopefully more chip designers will at least think about the possibility.

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January 14, 2014, 07:17:48 PM
 #92

Intron, Cscape,
         Very nice work! Just when i thought I've seen it all, you come a long and surprise me.
in your opinion, what are the possibilities this will become a standard with new ASIC chip designs from others?
Hopefully other ASIC competitors will take notice.
No DCDC converter with only two layer PCBs is a huge win in price reduction.


To be able to make a string design, the chip must provide
for a method to shunt the current that is carried by the
string when it is not in full operation. When you got that
one right and have some means of level shifting of the
signals going up and down the string it should be possible
whith any chip.

And Valery got that right:)
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January 17, 2014, 08:17:05 AM
 #93

Fastest USB miner at this moment:

Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running
from a 5.5 Volts supply.

intron

How much?

PM-ed you.

Also interested in the hex*fury...  Please PM for the price.  Thanks.

halu
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January 18, 2014, 09:21:59 AM
 #94

Fastest USB miner at this moment:





Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running
from a 5.5 Volts supply.

intron

how much for any of ur products ?

YinCoin YangCoin ☯☯First Ever POS/POW Alternator! Multipool! ☯ ☯ http://yinyangpool.com/ 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623937
Bwincoin - 100% Free POS. BBzwiwL76AkPGE42qN3FrpC1efuSoFoAxc
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January 19, 2014, 02:02:11 PM
 #95

I have a few quick question regarding string configuration.

Q1 ) Can I assume each bitfury chip acts like a diode, and a string is just a series connection of multiple chips?

Q2 ) Do the chips have an internal voltage regulator or some kind of impedance adjustment?

Thanks in advance.

Looking to review Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
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January 19, 2014, 02:31:28 PM
 #96

Q1 ) Can I assume each bitfury chip acts like a diode, and a string is just a series connection of multiple chips?
Not quite, as it has it's own consumption, not a fixed voltage drop like diodes, but the second part is correct.

Q2 ) Do the chips have an internal voltage regulator or some kind of impedance adjustment?
Yes there is current mirror inside the chip, which does the job.
Detailed explanation is here and here is a picture of what's inside the chip (to replace Russian explanation), but the external links of the schematic are wrong

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January 20, 2014, 04:14:00 AM
 #97

Where do we get these to test out??  That looks like a little beast with a big punch.


Fastest USB miner at this moment:





Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running
from a 5.5 Volts supply.

intron

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February 10, 2014, 08:59:00 AM
 #98

I'D like to buy one can I get directions where to buy from? Smiley
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February 10, 2014, 09:02:37 AM
 #99

I'D like to buy one can I get directions where to buy from? Smiley

We are working with others to get both the 15-chip One String Miner, as well as the 6-chip hex*fury produced.

Happy with your c-scape product ? Consider a tip: 16X2FWVRz6UzPWsu4WjKBMJatR7UvyKzcy
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February 10, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
 #100

I'D like to buy one can I get directions where to buy from? Smiley

We are working with others to get both the 15-chip One String Miner, as well as the 6-chip hex*fury produced.

I await updates on this Smiley

someone needs to compete with Bitmain. its shocking that that company came out of no-where with a developed product, and has sold from stock for months now at the best price on the market and some of the best design (could be a little more compact or a bit more power efficient, but those are little details)

24" PCI-E cables with 16AWG wires and stripped ends - great for server PSU mods, best prices https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563461
No longer a wannabe - now an ASIC owner!
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February 10, 2014, 04:26:18 PM
 #101

I am definitely interested in them when they come out.  Looks great so far.
If you need someone to test any units for you let me know.

I'D like to buy one can I get directions where to buy from? Smiley

We are working with others to get both the 15-chip One String Miner, as well as the 6-chip hex*fury produced.

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February 10, 2014, 05:29:04 PM
 #102

I am definitely interested in them when they come out.  Looks great so far.
If you need someone to test any units for you let me know.
--
Thank you for the offer, but we are 'testing' the hell out
of these things already. And for more than Two Weeks (tm) Wink

intron
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February 10, 2014, 06:19:52 PM
 #103

Very cool.
I can't wait to see them hit the market.

I am definitely interested in them when they come out.  Looks great so far.
If you need someone to test any units for you let me know.
--
Thank you for the offer, but we are 'testing' the hell out
of these things already. And for more than Two Weeks (tm) Wink

intron

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February 10, 2014, 06:28:20 PM
 #104

Only if there are chips first Sad Waiting since November to build some more strings.

One strange thing i have noticed, is that the hashrate is increasing with the time without any other changes - started with 245Gh and now at 265Gh/s ... ~7% increase it's like with the time the clock stabilizes and increases or the chips get in some kind of resonance between themselves.
@intron do you have similar experience with strings?

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February 10, 2014, 07:11:41 PM
 #105

Only if there are chips first Sad Waiting since November to build some more strings.

One strange thing i have noticed, is that the hashrate is increasing with the time without any other changes - started with 245Gh and now at 265Gh/s ... ~7% increase it's like with the time the clock stabilizes and increases or the chips get in some kind of resonance between themselves.
@intron do you have similar experience with strings?

The hashrate of a strings design is heavily dependent
of the supply voltage. You are sure this didn't change?
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February 10, 2014, 07:59:30 PM
 #106

The hashrate of a strings design is heavily dependent
of the supply voltage. You are sure this didn't change?
The PSU is 24V +- 1% not 7% and the power (edit: at the wall) is the same, while an increased voltage should have been increased the consumption too.

My strings are of 28 chips or 14 per 12V instead of 15 as in your case. The last chip is replaced from a diode to get the IOVDD (wasn't sure if IOVDD = VDD will work, so played safe) - this is the only part that may affect the overall per chip voltage ... in case the voltage drop on the diode decreases with the time, but then the effect of the temperature would be much more, which is not the case, so my (current) bet is on either CMQ (+-) resitors change in value (= less unused current for balancing) or some kind of resonance of the chip clocks

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March 02, 2014, 05:09:45 AM
 #107

We've got them  Smiley
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495536.0

I am selling in stock OneStringMiner boards, based on the Bitfury chips. Have a look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495536.0
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March 12, 2014, 04:39:27 PM
 #108

Intron - please PM me details about the hex miner, VERY interested xD

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March 12, 2014, 06:31:34 PM
 #109

Intron - please PM me details about the hex miner, VERY interested xD

PM-ed you.
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March 14, 2014, 09:14:39 PM
 #110

Intron - please PM me details about the hex miner, VERY interested xD

Same here please, want to buy at least one, awesome design!

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March 14, 2014, 09:42:23 PM
 #111

Me too please.  I had already PM'd you though.  Grin
Thanks

Intron - please PM me details about the hex miner, VERY interested xD

PM-ed you.

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March 14, 2014, 10:01:43 PM
 #112

Any ETA on these? Pumped for 15 gh/s usb sticks xD

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