Power Supply to Overclock Prospero X-3?

[TinkerTom]

I realize this is kind of speculation, but if overclocking the X–3 is practical, I’d suspect it would be pretty worthwhile for the first month or two. At least until all the TH/s miners get out and installed.

In the specs for the X–3 there’s this note:

Note: In theory the ASICs could be overclocked up to 128 Ghash/second but we cannot guarantee this until thorough testing. This would raise the speed up to 2560 Ghash/second but will increase the power dramatically which will not be supported by the supplied PSU.

And later:

It has been designed to be: Over-clocked with around 20%. Increasing the voltage might be required. If voltage is increased, the efficiency will drop.

Given: Power Consumption (Watt): 1050

Can we assume that we would need a PSU with 1050 + 20% = 1260W capacity? Is there any chance that a second, low capacity PSU could be added, rather than purchasing a 1200+ unit for several hundred dollars?

Should I expect this to be plug-and-play to swap the new power supply in? I’ve built a PC before, so am ok with that, if that’s about the skill level that would likely be required.

Finally, does this look right for power in the US, with 120 volt service? 1200 Watts / 120 volts = 10 amps. So I’d need service with at least 10 amps per machine?

Thanks!
-Tom

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[reikokuko]

I read/heard somewhere that 20A is pretty standard per circuit in the US, Don't quote me on it, I would like a definite answer as well.

Also, have you preordered it yet? I'm trying to preorder it and the website is saying they don't ship to the US.  I'm not able to complete the checkout due to the shipping address I entered.

[Pentax]

Your amps are right.  There are calculators online to calculate that.  I'm too lazy to find one right now...

you can possibly run 208V single phase if your panel will handle it.  I think the X-3's will run on that.  If you've got a hot tub, electric stove, oven or dryer, you may be running it already.  Tap in there.  get a multimeter for 15 bucks and check your voltages.

In terms of overclocking, that seems right, although you'd probably want to go higher than the advised 20% or you're going to blow out your PSU if it's running 100% duty cycle.  I'm stocking a spare as it is.  I do not think you can just piggyback supplies, so you're likely going to have to get a single beast if you're going to go this route, although I could be wrong.

I'm not planning on OCing mine, as I don't want to be shipping it back and forth and hoping they fix it if I cook chips, but good luck with that.  Keep it cool and you might get away with it....

[sidehack]

Typically, overclocking and overvolting means an exponential increase in power consumption. The power draw in a typical CMOS IC is actually mostly charge displacement from turning on and off transistors, which said charge increases with voltage and the number of displacements increases with frequency.

As an example, my max-overclocked Blades run 16.384MHz at 1.25V and consume about 135W of power, at 9W/GH
The stock blade runs 12MHz at 1.05V and consumes about 85W, at around 8W/GH. The power draw does not increase linearly with the speed increase, or with the voltage increase, but with both.

To be safe, looking for a 20% increase in speed, I'd opt for a (1.20*1.20=)1.44x increase in power supply output just in case. This is probably overkill, but overkill also means safety margin.

Since you're not terribly likely to find any 1500W supplies for less than entirely-too-many dollars, I'd look into getting two smaller server supplies (750-1000W) and running them in parallel. Most server supplies are built as redundancies, where two or more are run together in the same machine and are built to load-balance outputs between them.

[TinkerTom]

Also, have you preordered it yet? I'm trying to preorder it and the website is saying they don't ship to the US.  I'm not able to complete the checkout due to the shipping address I entered.

Yes, but I ordered from MinerSource.net. They're located not far from me in St. Louis.

[TinkerTom]

Thanks for the info guys. Running 280v is a great idea -- I'll see if my panel has room. I was going to have a new circuit pulled anyway, that would probably make sense. (I ordered multiple machines and have crappy old electric.)

Looking into the redundant server PSUs, those seem to be designed to hit the max rated wattage, e.g., not be run in parallel -- the ones that are rated 750W state that combined they should never exceed 750W. If that's the case, it's probably beyond where I want to go with this.

Maybe if I stick to OC 10% and hit somewhere like 1200W or less PSU it might be somewhat helpful, but not break the bank (or the X-3).

[repairguy]

I read/heard somewhere that 20A is pretty standard per circuit in the US, Don't quote me on it, I would like a definite answer as well.

Also, have you preordered it yet? I'm trying to preorder it and the website is saying they don't ship to the US.  I'm not able to complete the checkout due to the shipping address I entered.

Yes 20 is common, 15 is also common. Most electricians will run 20amp outlet circuits, however some jobs are done on the cheap and will only have 15amp. Keep in mind that even thought the circuit is rated at 20 amp the receptacles  are usually not.

This is a 15 amp receptacle

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/electric-outlet-wall-socket-plug-receptacle-7529752.jpg

This is a 20 amp receptacle

http://images.meredith.com/diy/images/2009/03/p_SCW_104_03.jpg

Also most residential homes don't have 208v dual phase.  they have 240v split phase

[repairguy]

I realize this is kind of speculation, but if overclocking the X–3 is practical, I’d suspect it would be pretty worthwhile for the first month or two. At least until all the TH/s miners get out and installed.

In the specs for the X–3 there’s this note:

Note: In theory the ASICs could be overclocked up to 128 Ghash/second but we cannot guarantee this until thorough testing. This would raise the speed up to 2560 Ghash/second but will increase the power dramatically which will not be supported by the supplied PSU.

And later:

It has been designed to be: Over-clocked with around 20%. Increasing the voltage might be required. If voltage is increased, the efficiency will drop.

Given: Power Consumption (Watt): 1050

Can we assume that we would need a PSU with 1050 + 20% = 1260W capacity? Is there any chance that a second, low capacity PSU could be added, rather than purchasing a 1200+ unit for several hundred dollars?

Should I expect this to be plug-and-play to swap the new power supply in? I’ve built a PC before, so am ok with that, if that’s about the skill level that would likely be required.

Finally, does this look right for power in the US, with 120 volt service? 1200 Watts / 120 volts = 10 amps. So I’d need service with at least 10 amps per machine?

Thanks!
-Tom

It could be possible you could use multiple power supplies.  It will depend entirely on how the unit is laid out electrically on the inside.  I am sure that it will use more than one connector to get power from the power supply.  As long each of the connectors are electrically isolated from each other you would be fine, however if they are bonded anywhere inside the unit=smoketown.  Although sidehack may be correct about using server power supplies.  I am not sure how the vreg works with them, so it could be a maybe.

[ORabbit]

Prospero X-1s and X-3s have their own power supplies built in.

[takagari]

It appears to me the x-3 for example simply has 20 minions inside and configured, I guess off an internal router? not sure how they are doing it. So can't see why you could run half off a secondary PSU and overclock. But Cooling will be key, they are in a enclosed case. So probably reached their limits of cooling. Time to modify the case

[reikokuko]

Prospero X-1s and X-3s have their own power supplies built in.

Yes, but overclocking it may increase it's power consumption past what the built in one is capable of, so we are exploring other options of supplemental power.

[TinkerTom]

Thanks for the info on 15/20 amp circuits. Since I'm having one pulled, maybe I should get 220v? I think then my amps go down by about half. However, I suppose I would have to find a battery backup that runs on that. Would there be any efficiency difference? In the end I'd guess that 1050 Watts is 1050 Watts, whichever. I'll need a total of about 40 amps.

I'm working on the room cooling now too. I have a partial vent built going out of the room into the ductwork for winter and will install another to go outside for summer. The room is in the basement so runs on the cool side to begin with. I can open a vent from the ductwork back into the room for A/C in the summer if it becomes necessary.

Speaking of which, this thermostat just arrived. Records temps at the base plus 3 remote locations (and you can buy up to 4 more remotes I believe) and has an (optional) alarm if a temp gets out of range (high or low, you can set each). After just setting it up I really like it. I like that I can see 4 temps without it having to sit there and cycle through them the way most of these do.

It also has trailing 24 hour high/low that you can see with one button press (click min/max once, all temps show 24 hr high temp; press again, they show 24 hr low; press again and back to current temps).

The instructions are actually very good and the operation is really easy. You can set a high/low temp or humidity alarm on each channel. I can see my outside temp, the temp here in my office, another location in the house, and the laundry/server room. The last one I set the high/low temp alarm on and I may move one of the other sensors also into that room -- one right next to the machines, one across the room.

Note that you'll need 6 AAA batteries -- 4 for the base and two each for sensors.
(p.s. That isn't an affiliate ID link -- thanks Colorado! I just like the product.)

[takagari]

In the UK they use 200 volt over two pins, because a and b phase are not in sync they can be shared.

In north america we don't do that. we use two seperate pin's for 220,

in reality you could jsut splice, but that fucks your whole house up.

You need to buy an adapter, converter or what ever. It's NOT cheap to run a 200 volt plug in north america.

Just get a 20 amp plug in and be done with it.

Your electrical company does not charge you by the amp, but by the Kw. This is an equation from volts/amps drawn. so as voltage increases, amps do indeed decrease but your Kw hours stay the same.

Not worth the money

Donations to my wallet are always welcome. lmao 

I'm an aircraft electrician I work with 300 volts 3 phase regularly.

[repairguy]

In the UK they use 200 volt over two pins, because a and b phase are not in sync they can be shared.

In north america we don't do that. we use two seperate pin's for 220,

in reality you could jsut splice, but that fucks your whole house up.

You need to buy an adapter, converter or what ever. It's NOT cheap to run a 200 volt plug in north america.

Just get a 20 amp plug in and be done with it.

Your electrical company does not charge you by the amp, but by the Kw. This is an equation from volts/amps drawn. so as voltage increases, amps do indeed decrease but your Kw hours stay the same.

Not worth the money

Donations to my wallet are always welcome. lmao 

I'm an aircraft electrician I work with 300 volts 3 phase regularly.

That does not make me confident in flying.

[repairguy]

If you are considering hiring an electrician to install a dedicated outlet(s) for you mining rig there are a few things to consider.

It will be less expensive for an electrician to install a single 240v outlet for your equipment rather than standard outlets, however the items to connect your equipment to your outlet is less common and usually more expensive with 240v

[takagari]

If you are considering hiring an electrician to install a dedicated outlet(s) for you mining rig there are a few things to consider.

It will be less expensive for an electrician to install a single 240v outlet for your equipment rather than standard outlets, however the items to connect your equipment to your outlet is less common and usually more expensive with 240v

Unsure what you meant by the above comment?
Our american standard 240 volt plug is NOT the same in any means as what they use in the UK....

I also don't understand how it's any cheaper? your running 12/3 you can get a single 240 volt plug, Or you can get 2 120 volt plugs on different breakers and phases. Same amount of wire, and a 20 amp 120volt plug is cheaper than a 240volt plug. As well as the 2 20 amp breakers are cheaper than a 240volt 20 amp breaker....

[sidehack]

Some server supplies have a "current share" pin, which if I understand correctly you tie them together and they co-regulate using this line to keep currents balanced between supplies in parallel. In this way you should be able to "add" the currents from multiple supplies without risk of overloading. Gonna do more research on this in the next few days.

[repairguy]

Some server supplies have a "current share" pin, which if I understand correctly you tie them together and they co-regulate using this line to keep currents balanced between supplies in parallel. In this way you should be able to "add" the currents from multiple supplies without risk of overloading. Gonna do more research on this in the next few days.

After you had mentioned it, I was thinking it was possible.  The hot swappable server supplies are both on at the same time and they have to be bonded otherwise one could not be replaced without the machine going down.  I have also been intending to mess around with it, but I have more projects than I have time.

[sidehack]

I'm already messing with interfacing to these supplies so I'll just add that to the list of things to test and/or implement by week's end.

[TinkerTom]

I'm leaning towards running 2, 20 amp circuits, but will check on cost. One last factor is that in the long run, having more 110 circuits may be handy for various home needs, whereas a 240 would probably wind up useless if I either sell the house or quit mining.

Again, thanks for the great input.

[takagari]

0 save zero on power and simply spend a lot more on a electrician to have a euro style 240

a single 20 amp should run even an over clocked x-3.

I'm wiring my server room up over new years with 8 20 amp plugs

[Coinmark]

Keep in mind the X-3 as of now has a high likelihood of coming as two separate physical units, in which case scaling up the power supply on a single physical box wouldn't require such high wattage single power units.  A 750 watt unit might already be almost 50% over spec (assuming 1050 watts total / 525 a box).

[TinkerTom]

Keep in mind the X-3 as of now has a high likelihood of coming as two separate physical units, in which case scaling up the power supply on a single physical box wouldn't require such high wattage single power units.  A 750 watt unit might already be almost 50% over spec (assuming 1050 watts total / 525 a box).

If it is 2 units that could each have a PSU, that would be probably make things a lot more doable for overclocking.

Is this based on the drawings at Black Arrow? I've wondered about those -- they also seem to indicate that each of those 2 units is 2U -- thus for one total X-3 you might actually need 4U? I guess I'll post that question over on the black arrow thread just to clarify. Hopefully they're getting the specs tightened up enough to have a good idea of form factor and so forth. I sure hope that isn't the case as I just ordered a smallish rack to setup over the holidays.

I'm also looking at power conditioners and these 2400W Tripp Lite ones seem to be pretty good -- one per two X-3s. They have a rack mount version too, but it's about $60 more expensive and takes 3U. I think UPSs are too expensive for me, and my power isn't too bad. Just rather have it very clean for longevity.

[TinkerTom]

Word from the mod (David) on Black Arrow forums is this:

The size is 3U per unit so this would be a total of 6U for every X-3.

My 13U rack is going to need to double in size.  I think I'd still rather have two of these than one bigger rack as they should fit my space better, so no harm here. Hope they update the website though or people may be a little surprised.

[sidehack]

What man doesn't like large racks?

Also are the X1 just a standalone job?

[takagari]

Yes it would seem they are