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Author Topic: Did the MysteryMiner (MM) keep his coins?  (Read 7543 times)
sadpandatech
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October 13, 2011, 04:48:29 PM
 #21





Awesome, where did you get (the data for) that?

Not my work, it came from www.bitcoinminer.com  They have a lot of very interesting data they have been gathering for quite some time.


  On another note, knowing what the difficulty was then and the time period MM was mining we can see he made no where near 400k coins... Some quick in my head math says more like, 14-16,000 BTC for his first stint from Feb 17th to Mar 1st, and then 18-22,000 BTC for Mar 4th to the evening of Mar 7th. Total maybe 42-45k BTC for all the short bursts combined with those two more stable periods. *shrug*

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It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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October 13, 2011, 08:30:00 PM
 #22

Even w/ a GPU half a terrahash is a lot of hashing power.  No way this was a garage full of mining rigs. 

It would need to be something exotic.
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October 13, 2011, 08:47:29 PM
 #23

Even w/ a GPU half a terrahash is a lot of hashing power.  No way this was a garage full of mining rigs. 

It would need to be something exotic.

A botnet with a few million bots packs some processing power even if most of the machines are only suitable for CPU mining.
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October 13, 2011, 09:57:13 PM
 #24

Even w/ a GPU half a terrahash is a lot of hashing power.  No way this was a garage full of mining rigs. 

It would need to be something exotic.

A botnet with a few million bots packs some processing power even if most of the machines are only suitable for CPU mining.

  I definetly can agree it wasn't a shed full of GPU's. It could easily have been a bot net orrr a large group of gpu enthusiast who already had equip in place for other such parallel projects that wanted to see what the whole 'bitcoin' thing was about.  Some more research into the time period and discussions going on there may shed some light on who it was and what they did it with.  I believe their IP is on record some place as that is how they were able to graph out MM seperatly from the rest of the network......

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
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October 14, 2011, 04:05:05 AM
 #25

A network of 2,000 pcs with a crappy 8800GT can do 2,000 * 20 = 40,000 megahash. CPU mining on top of that can do maybe another 10-20 gigahash, and there are companies with tens of thousands of PCs with even better video cards in them. It is entirely feasible it was not a botnet, it was a system admin who simply got caught.

10k PCs with shitty Radeon 4850s can do 10,000 * 60 = 600,000 megahash/s

I'm tell you, it doesn't have to be a botnet operator when it could have been a rogue system admin(especially since it suddenly stopped).

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Gerald Davis


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October 14, 2011, 04:10:10 AM
 #26

A network of 2,000 pcs with a crappy 8800GT can do 2,000 * 20 = 40,000 megahash. CPU mining on top of that can do maybe another 10-20 gigahash, and there are companies with tens of thousands of PCs with even better video cards in them. It is entirely feasible it was not a botnet, it was a system admin who simply got caught.

10k PCs with shitty Radeon 4850s can do 10,000 * 60 = 600,000 megahash/s

I'm tell you, it doesn't have to be a botnet operator when it could have been a rogue system admin(especially since it suddenly stopped).

What company has tens of thousands of machines with anything other than integrated video (likely some Intel POS)?

Some high end workstations might have better video cards but most business machines have the cheapest $1.50 videochip they can solder onto the motherboard.  Given integrated video can now do dual DVI output @ 1920x1200 there isn't much need for anything more.  

Also it wasn't 60GH/s it was 500GH/s and back when miner performance was significantly lower.  At 10MH/s per machine 500GH would be ~ 50,000 desktops.

Slightly off topic but pretty soon video cards in non-gaming computers are going to be extinct.  Both AMD and Intel now make CPU w/ built in graphics capabilities so no need even for integrating video into the north-bridge. Hell no reason even for a north-bridge at all.  Combine that w/ displayport supporting both daisychain and hubs (connect 2, 3, 4. 10+ monitors from a single displayport port) the need for even a basic graphics card is dying. 

For most consumers (and virtually all businesses) going forward there won't even be a reason (and in some cases choice) to buy a graphics card.  Not a good place to be in if your name is Nvidia.
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October 14, 2011, 04:39:15 AM
 #27

What company has tens of thousands of machines with anything other than integrated video (likely some Intel POS)?

I've recently been in south Korea. A lot of these people are gamers. The seldomly own their own machines, but go to "PC"-places. Good gfx-cards there, many machines. There's a lot of these places, I mean: a lot of them. I can't understand Korean language, but maybe there are some chains. They also have custom XP installs on these systems... who knows, someone might provide service for a lot of these places and is maybe able to centrally configure machines to mine?

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October 14, 2011, 05:01:52 AM
 #28

My bet is on a "borrowed" GPU or FPGA cluster.
More likely than a botnet with 10,000 $150 GPUs.

-rph

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sadpandatech
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October 14, 2011, 06:02:46 AM
 #29

  Both AMD and Intel now make CPU w/ built in graphics capabilities so no need even for integrating video into the northbridge. Hell no reason even for a northbridge at all.  Combine that w/ displayport being daisychainable within 5 years you will be able to hook up 3,4,10 high resolution monitors to an enterprise desktop via single displayport connector and using the video capabilities of the CPU.  For most consumers (and virtually all businesses) there will never be a reason to buy a GPU.  Not a good place to be in if your name is Nvidia.


  Aye, APU ftw with the American market for sure. I was peeping out some of the statistics for pre-built(i.e. HP, Dell, etc) computer sales and it was pretty apparent that American buyers have the absolute lowest percentage of purchases with a dedicated GPU added on. A quick search on the new APU's should supply the stats so I will not attempt to quote them from my poor memory.

  Yea, not sure what Nvidia's plans are for the very near future with APU's, Intel/AMD appear out for blood to get more of a strangle hold on the market share from them.  With IE9, etc adding built in support for AMD's 'Vision Engine' technology, things be looking real good for for them this coming year. For your OT reading pleasure, http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/Pages/vision-engine.aspx
  Note also; Systems powered by AMD APUs include AMD VISION Engine Software
■Includes AMD Catalyst™ Graphics driver, Vision Engine Control Center, and AMD’s driver for OpenCL™

  A small part of my Nvidia fanboyness just died a little. ;p


  Back 'On Topic';  I think before we can truly speculate further about what they were using we should do the research to see just 'who' it was....

Agreed, I don't even think any one folding project would be enough considering the coordinated effort that would go into making it work.

Aye, especially considering most of the World Community Grid, Boinic, etc projects are more CUDA focused instead of the Int-OP focus that sha hashing utilizes with the ATI cards.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
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October 14, 2011, 10:26:46 PM
 #30

Quote
Err not exactly meant as a compliment.

I get that DDoS is like 'protesting' on the internet, however I generally classify people that offer such services as shady, regardless of their intentions.
And no matter how I re-read your second statement, it sounds like a crude joke about a double spend attack.

What exactly does it mean? Has your DDoS services ever been used for what we would both consider immoral intent (e.g Bot-net taking down competitions website, compared to protesting taking down a child porn site)?
You can clasify me as you see fit, I don't care. The second line is not crude joke about double spend, it's crude joke about getting your wallet.dat Cheesy

It means what it means. I don't consider taking competitors website offline for some time immoral. The competition in capitalism is fierce, and if someone from corporation one says that corporation two products are inferior and theyr boss have small penis, there comes the immoral services. On other side I don't consider taking down child porn website a heroic thing. There is few if any CP websites in plain internet, and if the small minority of pedos can jerk to pictures and don't harm the little girl or boy next door, let they get there stuff and release the pressure.

Generally I offer to bring out the treasures from closed and private parts on hacking forums to people who can pay me.
Quote
I deleted a wallet with 100 coins in 2009 because I realized it was pointless/worthless since the coins couldn't sold even for a penny. At the time this really just seemed like a professor's side project that was going to go nowhere.
Would'nt it feel better now if of You saved the file somewhere for later time or just simply sent them to me?
Quote
Well, at the time with the difficulty only moving from 55k to 76k(march 9th 2011) This is about the area he peaked once at about 200GH then maxed out to just over ~495GH before just going *POOF*  Just wanted to provide some more accurate info to help in the speculation.
Classic botnets with CPU mining will not tolerate CPU mining for long, peoplw will start noticing the 100% load because it will for them make the workstations useless as shit. 1 week of CPU mining before noticable reduction in numbers is my estaminate. Probably the coins was inexpensive back then and the operator used the botnet for other more profitable or more fun purposes.

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October 17, 2011, 04:33:30 PM
 #31

A network of 2,000 pcs with a crappy 8800GT can do 2,000 * 20 = 40,000 megahash. CPU mining on top of that can do maybe another 10-20 gigahash, and there are companies with tens of thousands of PCs with even better video cards in them. It is entirely feasible it was not a botnet, it was a system admin who simply got caught.

10k PCs with shitty Radeon 4850s can do 10,000 * 60 = 600,000 megahash/s

I'm tell you, it doesn't have to be a botnet operator when it could have been a rogue system admin(especially since it suddenly stopped).

What company has tens of thousands of machines with anything other than integrated video (likely some Intel POS)?

Some high end workstations might have better video cards but most business machines have the cheapest $1.50 videochip they can solder onto the motherboard.  Given integrated video can now do dual DVI output @ 1920x1200 there isn't much need for anything more.  

Also it wasn't 60GH/s it was 500GH/s and back when miner performance was significantly lower.  At 10MH/s per machine 500GH would be ~ 50,000 desktops.

Slightly off topic but pretty soon video cards in non-gaming computers are going to be extinct.  Both AMD and Intel now make CPU w/ built in graphics capabilities so no need even for integrating video into the north-bridge. Hell no reason even for a north-bridge at all.  Combine that w/ displayport supporting both daisychain and hubs (connect 2, 3, 4. 10+ monitors from a single displayport port) the need for even a basic graphics card is dying. 

For most consumers (and virtually all businesses) going forward there won't even be a reason (and in some cases choice) to buy a graphics card.  Not a good place to be in if your name is Nvidia.


At this time all built in graphics solution sucks for real gaming, and it's going to be a long way before intel can implement something remotely comparable to what Nvidia has to offer. (I skipped ATI / AMD for obvious reasons Smiley)

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October 18, 2011, 03:01:06 AM
 #32

At this time all built in graphics solution sucks for real gaming, and it's going to be a long way before intel can implement something remotely comparable to what Nvidia has to offer. (I skipped ATI / AMD for obvious reasons Smiley)

For hardcore gaming you may be right but honestly it doesn't really matter.  Intel craptastic (I am talking pre Sandy Bridge utter garbage, the utter garbage that couldn't even run Win7 properly and resulted in lawsuits) graphics chips have gained it ...... 57% of GPU markethsare world wide.

With Sandy Bridge, decent Aero performance, multi display support, HD video, and casual gaming how high do you think on-Chip GPU marketshare can go.  Nvidia is locked out of that market.  It will be split 3:1 between Intel and AMD.  AMD got a win w/ xbox 360 which had to sting NVidia.   Next gen consoles have taken a bite out of high end PC gaming and that is Nvidia only real market left.

Splitting the 20% and shrinking marketshare of PC that actually use a discrete GPU?  Would you want to base your business model on that?

This is on top of AMD & Intel killing the chipset market.  AMD/Intel both moved more and functionality into the CPU that nortbridges aren't needed.  That combined with accelerating development cycles and high speed propreitary busses to southbridge knocked Nvidia out of the chipset market almost completely. 5 years ago Nvidia moved a decent number of chipsets (nForce), onboard video, and discrete video.  Only one product line is even alive anymore and ATI/AMD merger gives AMD graphics deeper pockets and  access to higher volume pricing.

If I had put to put money in AMD, Intel or NVidia it would be Intel.  AMD a distant second, and NVidia a "God please don't make me do that".
I like NVidia tech but honestly hardcore games think to much about the ultra high end and forget the billions are made on the other 99% of the market.
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February 23, 2014, 11:06:44 AM
 #33

This is called hoarding a large portion of the minted coins and holding on them to drive the price of BTC up, whoever wants to see BTC suceed is doing this. KnC is doing it today with their datacentres, they mine months before with their "new hardware", they never take it offline either. They sit on all the coins they mined, a few months later they manufacture the same amount of hash power that they have in their data center with the same tech, and ship it out to everyone else at a set price. As soon as retail miners receive them it's easy to see that they won't ROI, KnC knows this aswell as they control most of the network either way. After all the batches arrive to customers (38 million $ worth for neptunes right now), no ROI in sight = miners hoard coins, as KnC has also hoarded all coins for months before with no intention of selling, artificial scarcity happens, retail miners hold their coins and the price drives up on the exchanges. If these big mining manufacturers wanted to crash the market, they could right now. Do you seriously think that there is 7-11 billion dollars sustaining the current bitcoin price? Hell no. Probably 10-100 million. KnC has a kill switch, questions to ask yourself - 1) Do they want Bitcoin to succeed? 2) What are their real motives? Is it just to sell hardware? That mystery miner in 2011 held all the coins it mined, that's what caused the price spike shortly after.

Satoshi = KnC?
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February 23, 2014, 08:26:22 PM
 #34

My vote is it was a botnet attack for sure !! 2009 was a big year for crackdown and discovery of huge botnet systems and this might of been one of the last ditch efforts of getting everything they could out of there botnet controlled computer networks. Over 1 million computers where at the power of some of these botnet cyber gangs and it had to be one of them. Here is a link for the cyberwar time frame by years.. Notice the crackdown in security that just happens to be in 2009. For the most part the botnets used would just get personal info and credit card numbers as they tryed to limit system performance loss so the virus could hide easier.. I bet they started feeling the pressure and decided to use full power of all computers as long as they could mining bitcoin ...   


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0307/Cyberwar-timeline

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February 24, 2014, 02:33:45 AM
 #35

simple

i time travelled with a usb hub and eruptors

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February 24, 2014, 07:44:38 AM
 #36

simple

i time travelled with a usb hub and eruptors

best explanation

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February 25, 2014, 01:36:23 AM
 #37

Or the PIXAR render farm......

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February 25, 2014, 08:30:45 PM
 #38

I will be doing another time travel in the next week, anyone with experience please contact me.

You will have the opportunity to withdraw MTGOX funds, so this could be good for everyone!

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February 25, 2014, 08:42:00 PM
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http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/grappling-zeroaccess-botnet
molecular
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February 25, 2014, 08:51:26 PM
 #40

ok, but: did they keep they coins? ;-)

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