Anyone interested in chatting about BTC RF transmissions / internetless bitcoin

[Altoidnerd]

Ordered by total amount of bandwidth required:

1. By far most traffic generated by Bitcoin is the initial blockchain download. Nodes connect to random other nodes and request all the current blocks. The amount of traffic has a lower bound of the size of the block chain, but can be more due to coordination.

2. Received blocks and transactions are relayed through the network.

3. Then there are miners that broadcast new blocks. Due to difficulty adjustment this aims for 1 block of 1MB every 10 minutes, but has a Poisson distribution and there can be variations due to changes in network hashrate.

4. Then there are nodes transmitting new transactions. The volume in newly transmitted transactions is very low. Estimate would also be max 1MB per 10 minutes in total (can be more in the case not all transactions make it into a block).

If you have an alternative way to get nodes up to speed (1), and ignore the P2P gossip network (2) and replace it by a broadcast model, that leaves only 3+4 which are pretty low bandwidth.

Question: when a balance query is made, is anything transmitted at all?    My immediate guess is "no."

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[mb300sd]

Has anyone ever considered leasing satellite space instead? Launching your own would be highly cost prohibitive, but leasing an unused or obsolete transponder on an existing satellite might be reasonable.

[Altoidnerd]

But theres no actual encryption in the bitcoin network. All data over the network is readable by anyone, signing != encrypting.

Question about signing:  what does this require in an abstract picture - am I correct in saying it a result that is easily verified but not easily found?  Like the discrete log?

Leasing satellites is a good way to do it.  I have no knowledge in launching them (lol!)

[WindMaster]

Has anyone ever considered leasing satellite space instead? Launching your own would be highly cost prohibitive, but leasing an unused or obsolete transponder on an existing satellite might be reasonable.

The average transponder lease rate on a geosynchronous bird is approximately $2 million/year.

[Altoidnerd]

Has anyone ever considered leasing satellite space instead? Launching your own would be highly cost prohibitive, but leasing an unused or obsolete transponder on an existing satellite might be reasonable.

The average transponder lease rate on a geosynchronous bird is approximately $2 million/year.

BTC market cap of 11 billion, chump change isn't it.

Well a more complicated analysis of costs is in order.  I don't mean to laugh away the problem, its a real one.  Only suggesting that for bitcoin it is "affordable."

[Altoidnerd]

HΨ = EΨ

...Could have geosynchronous satellites...

If the magnetic field due to earth is small enough at the altitude of geo-synch. orbits, NMR could be the road to achieving a coherent state vector

http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1swog1/on_what_order_of_magnitude_is_the_b_field_from/

Let's see what they say

[WindMaster]

If the magnetic field due to earth is small enough at the altitude of geo-synch. orbits, NMR could be the road to achieving a coherent state vector
http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1swog1/on_what_order_of_magnitude_is_the_b_field_from/

Given that LEO satellites commonly use the earth's magnetic field for orientation control through magnetorquing (not so much in the case of geosynchronous satellites due to weak field strength), most of what you're after (in terms of calculating approximate field strength) can be found in technical discussions of magnetorquers.

http://microsat.sm.bmstu.ru/e-library/Algorithms/mss/mag.pdf

The average transponder lease rate on a geosynchronous bird is approximately $2 million/year.

BTC market cap of 11 billion, chump change isn't it.

Figure you need a minimum of 3 for full-earth coverage.  Also budget about $600K each to build 3 satellite uplink stations (teleports).  Note, transponder lease rates referenced above are for C-band transponders (figure minimum 6' to 8' dish size needed on the receiving end in most cases).  Ku-band transponders, which are higher-powered and use receive dishes more akin to what people are accustomed to for modern DTV satellite systems (Dish Network, DirecTV, Bell ExpressVu in Canada) with 18" to 24" dishes, run about double that per year.

[Altoidnerd]

If the magnetic field due to earth is small enough at the altitude of geo-synch. orbits, NMR could be the road to achieving a coherent state vector
http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1swog1/on_what_order_of_magnitude_is_the_b_field_from/

Given that LEO satellites commonly use the earth's magnetic field for orientation control through magnetorquing (not so much in the case of geosynchronous satellites due to weak field strength), most of what you're after (in terms of calculating approximate field strength) can be found in technical discussions of magnetorquers.

http://microsat.sm.bmstu.ru/e-library/Algorithms/mss/mag.pdf

Perfect.  Printing this and probably need to hibernate again for a while.  My notion is that the fields transmitted can be used to synchronously adjust the static applied field at each node to some collection of inert solids.  Solid state NMR/NQR is an insanely sensitive magnetometer.

I'm only suggesting magnetic resonance because it is what I know.  That's not to say it is the only way to do this.

[Altoidnerd]

http://microsat.sm.bmstu.ru/e-library/Algorithms/mss/mag.pdf

Well thanks for units in electromagnetism being a sloppy mess since the 1800's strong, I still have not been able to calculate a mean field <B> in gauss working on that.  On the surface of the earth under 2 G is a common value. I regularly measure .5 G orthogonal to east-west, in north florida. Differences of parts in thousands are readily detectable in quadrupole spectra in this background. The sensitivity is amplified in smaller static fields.

[Altoidnerd]

I need some sleep now but as i was experimenting with transmitters and i know some things about analoge electronics that would be interesting!

Have you got a set up and tried tx transmissions wirelessly?  I have some test equipment at home, and considerable analog skills.  I have access in principle to unlimited test equipment at work but cannot legally use it for this, AFAIK.

[Altoidnerd]

So lets clarify this. The aim is for a Radio based hardware product, which can automatically find and sync. with other similar devices, also linking in chains to the Bitcoin network through 'main' nodes which are conected to the internet to enuse connectivity.

I'm still a little unsure, this is speculative rambling so far.

I think a great goal would be to conceptualize and deploy a fake bitcoin network in-house that is a small scale version of what is being discussed here.  That labwork can begin once the concept is solidified a bit more.

[tubbyjr]

Nice progress of ideas on this. I noticed you said that Mbps MBps and kbps kBps were confusing you. If you see a lower-case b it refers to bits, most bandwidth measures will be in bits, most modern broadband internet connections will range from 5-15 Megabits/s which would equate into 0.625 MBps-1.875 Megabytes per second, or 625 - 1875 kilobytes per second. Your browser will usually show your download speeds in terms of Megabytes, but it seems to be a marketing ploy by ISPs, to provide their bandwidth in terms of Mbps.

There's many useful unit converters, here's one so you may be better to grasp it: http://www.numion.com/calculators/units.html

And nice to see you so serious about this, I will keep following this.