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Author Topic: Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???  (Read 4089 times)
drewster
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December 28, 2013, 02:54:49 AM
 #21

OKay seriously wtf are you talking about? 


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We are determined to keep Bitcoin rooted in its core principles: non-political economy, openness and independence. While we aim to advance standards and security, we remain strong advocates of the liberating power of decentralized money.

If you can't see the underlying implications of this statement as on the front page of the bitcoin foundations [website](https://bitcoinfoundation.org/about/why) you might be an engineer. If you really think about it and then do not see anything wrong with it, you might have voted for W.

Politics is 'who gets what where, when and how', there is nothing as misleading as suggesting taking the politics out of something to fix it. It's this festering idea especially in the United States and to a lesser extent in the United Kingdom, that regulation leads to bureaucracy and that kills everybody. This bureaucracy is the logical outcome of 'politics'.

The liberating power of money (decentralized, not decentralized, whatever)  Huh  how is that going to liberate well at least something close to a significant number of the populace (forget us frapuccino slurping yuppies for a moment.) I presume these claims are made for the benefit of all, not just the initiators of the foundation - which are in turn self-proclaimed strong advocates - and being an advocate that has never anything to do with politics either.

'Freedom' is a word to our western culture as meaningful as 'enjoy' is to Coca-Cola. Empty hollow phraseology that doesn't mean _anything_, so no-one can take offence.

The bitcoin foundation is an interest group in civil society with very strong and clear political ideas (ie. money should not be regulated by a form of consensus/democracy, but must be made by a machine that nobody can fiddle with). That can be your conviction, but it is politics.

Penn and Teller could do a good one about this. "Basically here you have a currency that became popular because it allows you to do all kinds of illegal things and get paid for it while you stay completely or somewhat anonymous, and this is going to save the world... and it is completely politics free... that suonds like a lot of... right, bullshit"

Bitcoin is not going to change the power structures in society much, they just might decide to buy a lot of bitcoins, or do the Chinese thing. It is a neat way to get marijuana though...


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bookie988 (OP)
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January 01, 2014, 05:02:19 AM
Last edit: January 01, 2014, 05:14:59 AM by bookie988
 #22

An argument is an attempt to persuade someone of something, by giving reasons for accepting a particular conclusion as evident.

The argument (agreeably a mistake on my part) was

People who believe in the claims made on this webpage have a very high change of voting for W bush, because both things are stupid, and unless you belong to a very small minority that is not on this website, it would be to the detriment of your financial wellbeing to do so and therefore against your interest. Which would constitute stupid. Belonging to the same category of people, lets say the stupids, chances are higher that you do/believe things that stupids believe.

I will retract that argument on the spot, but its still an argument.

Idiot though is an antiquated word for the mentally challenged, and it is a derogatory remark.
Voogru
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January 01, 2014, 06:48:54 AM
 #23



 I hold a bachelors degree in polsci. moralistic compromising kruft, apolitical, kruft-free. You see, you imply you have done the mandatory digging, but spout of in even more meaningless terms - apolitical, kruft-free, superior, good lord man

Your fancy pieces of paper are of no value here.
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January 01, 2014, 09:45:40 AM
 #24

yes anarchy is hokum to me, but i'm not saying it wouldn't make a dent in the power structure. it does give people more freedom, and it's an alternative currency to bureaucracy-printed money.
luqash3
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January 01, 2014, 08:28:01 PM
 #25

bookie988 I am glad you are standing for the freedom and safeguarding of our rights. I am fed up of the politics and central bank who are the big enemies of freedom. They manipulate the markets for their personnel incentives. I guess bitcoin may give us freedom from central bank tapering.
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January 11, 2014, 05:00:18 PM
 #26

forget my comment about W, it is made because i live in the Netherlands and i have no idea why US agencies have an active office in the Hague, called DEA The Hague - if this is the roman empire, please let us also at least become romans or we should have a Social Police dept in Washington with Dutch agents at least.

there is many benefits, but I find libertarianism naive and appalling, it's just a personal opinion. It's the (tax evasion produced) iPad, starbucks, hip version of a guy in a compound somewhere with a lot of guns, because it is his right. We are all here together, and the right to absolute property is something that seems to be the main motivator in all these discussions.

I know myself what bitcoin allows you to do, now what can one do to make it do something good, that is a question that, apart from some initiatives, does not bother many people here. It's more about ROI, trading bots, legislation and interests... Sounds a lot like the corporations and the politicians as described to begin with.

 
bookie988 (OP)
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January 11, 2014, 05:02:32 PM
 #27

forget my comment about W, it is made because i live in the Netherlands and i have no idea why US agencies have an active office in the Hague, called DEA The Hague - if this is the roman empire, please let us also at least become romans or we should have a Social Police dept in Washington with Dutch agents at least. They could extradite kleptocrats, financial crooks to the Netherlands for fair trial as the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act seems to be hardly implemented at all.

there is many benefits, but I find libertarianism naive and appalling, it's just a personal opinion. It's the (tax evasion produced) iPad, starbucks, hip version of a guy in a compound somewhere with a lot of guns, because it is his right. We are all here together, and the right to absolute property is something that seems to be the main motivator in all these discussions.

I know myself what bitcoin allows you to do, now what can one do to make it do something good, that is a question that, apart from some initiatives, does not bother many people here. It's more about ROI, trading bots, legislation and interests... Sounds a lot like the corporations and the politicians as described to begin with.

 
bookie988 (OP)
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January 11, 2014, 05:05:15 PM
Last edit: January 11, 2014, 05:33:58 PM by bookie988
 #28



 I hold a bachelors degree in polsci. moralistic compromising kruft, apolitical, kruft-free. You see, you imply you have done the mandatory digging, but spout of in even more meaningless terms - apolitical, kruft-free, superior, good lord man

Your fancy pieces of paper are of no value here.

They are not fancy, it's not a PhD.

I didn't claim they have value on this forum, per se. They have value in the argument that i don't know what i am talking about. I come back to this later.

On your statement. After, " no value here..." most of the time you add " because A(, B and C)" (not literally of course). Those are arguments, facts with, if necessary references to often articles from.... people with degrees,  so people can check that and your argument becomes stronger. Otherwise anybody can just say anything that is not verifiable. Otherwise it's truthiness.

Until you give arguments why they would have no value,  with regards to somebody claiming that I don't understand what i am talking about while i hold a degree that covers that subject, you haven't made a point at all. You just said something on the basis of a gut feeling or a conviction. Like "jesus saves" or "the truth shall set you free" or "bitcoins are a good thing" (although we have no experience with what kind of an effect they will have at all).

It's that last point, bitcoins are a good thing, that i have my doubts about. Not on this forum, but if it's a point made by the foundation that says to be apolitical, in so many words, that is a problem. Its not going to mean anything eventually here or anywhere i think - as rich folk can just still buy more coins and it only empowers those who benefit mostly from the least regulation.

We can safely leave the world in their hands, can't we?
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