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Author Topic: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement  (Read 378978 times)
50cent_rapper
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February 23, 2015, 03:12:42 PM
 #1801

IPO START
- The IPO price will be 0.10 USD per Skycoin, at a fixed Bitcoin price of 240 USD/BTC. So 2400 SKY per BTC.
- We will start with 1 million SKY (1% of total) and then release more over time (between 2% and 10%), once we are sure everything is working.

"A business with terrific economics can be a bad investment if the price paid is excessive." W.Buffett.

Skycoin is superb technology, but it's a terrible investment.
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February 23, 2015, 04:02:42 PM
 #1802

skycoin_addr is a skycoin address. If you put in a string like "9f86d081884c7d659a2feaa0c55ad015a3bf4f1b2b0b822cd15d6c15b0f00a08". Then that will be the deterministic key for generating the wallet. Otherwise we will send them to skycoin address given. Make sure you write this down! Only use ASCII characters.For security if you give us a seed, we are converting it to a wallet address and nuking the passphrase, so the private key cannot be recovered in future.

Sorry to bother you with stupid questions, as I understand this first IPO is for those who understand how the stuff works, but is the deterministic key similar to NXT, where I just need that one key/password/seed and that's all I need to backup? I can just write that one password down, and then download the client/wallet on another computer and enter the password, and everything works again?
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February 23, 2015, 08:21:36 PM
 #1803

The initial IPO price would put this coin to #10 on coinmarketcap.com

Looks a bit overpriced for magic out of thin air.

Nevertheless the technology sounds great.

 
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February 23, 2015, 08:22:19 PM
 #1804

The button for loading deterministic wallets from seed is now in interface. I need to switch the wallet generator to the deterministic wallet and confirm now.



The wallet backend needs to be refactored, but can happen later.

Wallets have an id field, a name field,filename and a seed. This should probably been "filename" as id. The name field should be renamed "notes" or removed. The json storage format needs to be improved later. Just general cleanup in future.

When the wallet format changes, you need to go into ".skycoin/wallet" and move the folder. Then open the wallets with a text editor and extract the seed. Then run client and reimport it.

I did this, and I have a skycoin address now. But I can´t see my privat key, and I can´t secure it with a password.
Am I doing this right?


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February 23, 2015, 09:22:37 PM
 #1805

I sent 3 messages to the address provided. 4 hours have passed since the 1st one, but I haven't received anything so far.
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February 24, 2015, 12:07:11 AM
 #1806

- exchange service will be run by trusted third party who meets security requirements

How can you meet security requirements when there is no secure communication channel on the internet which can obfuscate the IP addresses of the communicating parties?

Except maybe Bitmessage?

We tried to use TOX.

I can't readily find any mention about TOX using high-latency onion routing nor Bitmessage-like PIR (everyone sees everything) in order to obfuscate the IP address of the sender and recipient. Does TOX do this?

Tor is low-latency (with very few onion hops), arguably a honeypot, and thus can not be fully trusted.

Based on our experience, every system for secure communication that exists is being actively targeted for disruption of service.

Bitmessage finally (after several weeks of my posts in their forum) implemented a variant of my suggestion to mitigate the spam.

But PIR is not a scalable design. We really need the high-latency onion layer network with paid nodes, so we can resolve Tor's vulnerabilities. Also we need to use several layers of encryption including quantum proof such as  McEliece, because if everything is being recorded then eventually our prior anonymity will be cracked ex post facto (and that means jail time for participants later in life).

Debian packages do not have deterministic builds, so we cannot be assured there are not back doors in the package binaries that are not present in the source.

Deterministic builds are not sufficient to guarantee there are no back doors, instead you need to compile the compilers yourself using multiple compilers to compile the compilers with (and even that doesn't provide an absolute guarantee).

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_trus.html

https://blog.torproject.org/category/tags/deterministic-builds

The state of computer security right now is very bad.

We can't possibly fix this every where within even a year or two.

What we can do is build a more secure network communication as a first line of defense that is needed by everyone. Then we can pick up next in line priorities that apply to the widest swath of software that would be motivated about security.

You can not possibly get any traction if you need to perfect the universe first.

Skycoin is using Golang instead of PHP (MtGox) or C++ (like Bitcoin), so we can guarantee that there are no buffer overflows that will allow computer to be hijacked from the Skycoin client (unlike Bitcoin). At best, an attacker will be able to crash the Skycoin client.

When I looked at it, Golang had afair fundamental design flaws with expression of higher level semantics, and vulnerabilities also creep in semantically.

You seem to be trying to perfect the world from the bottom up, instead of trying to strategize around priorities.

You appear to need a strategist.

... achieving security will require fundamental changes to toolchains, compilers and operating systems and not just the patching of individual exploits.

How are we going to write our own languages, compilers, and toolchains if we don't first create a $billion market cap so we have the funds to do this?

If you go raise $1-5 million in an IPO, you will quickly burn through that and it will not be sufficient. Plus you will try to do too much at once, not having a good prioritized strategy.

Whereas, I have an idea how to get off the ground immediately without any IPO funding (or very small funding maybe $100,000 max) and generate $billions in revenue for the developers over time in order to actually change the world.

If you have socialist attitude (do not value the importance of the money side of things), you won't be able to accomplish your wide ranging goals.

Again I think you need help. You are excellent nerds (better than me), but you need strategy help. I need some extra brain power (and coding help) on the technical side in order to insure I can accomplish my ideas.

But we can't seem to acquiesce to each other.

We cant protect against web-browsers, Java or security vulnerabilities in the operating system. There was recently an exploit in firefox, that would allow your computer to be hijacked through javascript. You merely needed to click a link and a buffer overflow exploit was triggered in an XML parsing library that Firefox used as a dependency.

You can't possibly protect the user's computer from code they run that is not yours.

You worried about details which are too low-level when we haven't even yet solved the high level issues such as how do we communicate over the internet without revealing our IP address.

Skycoin uses a web-browser (local web-client). By default Google Chome saves everything you type into fields and sends it to a remote server to be saved (form autocomplete). So we had to package our own version of Chrome and V8 into the Skycoin repo. This is working, but is only so-so. That is what the ./gui.sh script is.

Why bother! Just tell the user to not run Chrome! Come on guys, you need to learn how to "ship it" and not "perfect the universe" first.

CoreOS, Docker and LLVM are bringing us much closer to these goals. We will not need to implement everything from scratch. It will however be a very expensive process, taking years. We are realistically look at a cost $4 to $15 million dollars over five years and seven dozen small, high intensity six month projects that can be completely by one to three developers.

As usual, estimates in software are always an order-of-magnitude too optimistic. You won't get even close to the resources you need with an IPO.

As another user has commented, if you raise $millions, then the upside is too risky to justify investing. All those fools who bought the Ethereum IPO are going to learn the hard way.

This has to be worked through very carefully to ensure that it would not introduce any edge cases, so will be something we look at for the second generation consensus algorithm implementation. I dont think there is time to fit into this iteration.

I think the existing Skycoin consensus design is 51% attack proof, because the number of nodes required for performing the attack is much larger than the number of mining pools that need to collude and if it occurred, the chain would just fork and run both chains until they were pruned by hand and the bad nodes are kicked off by hand. So it is not clear what the economic incentive for a 51% attack in Skycoin, or why anyone would attempt it. Its more annoying than anything else.

How much time are you going to waste down the low priority rabbit hole of perfecting nature?

Eventually you will learn the hard way that consensus is never decentralized. How many thought experiments and then learning from the real world implementations will have to go through?

There are so many factors such as even social engineering, but it comes down to the fact that humans have large brains and thus prioritize self-interest.

I am not against developing your consensus algorithm to see where it ends up, but it is a lower priority need at the moment. That should happen later when the $billions in development funding is rolling in from a success coup in the investment market.

The number of nodes that need to collude to successfully attack is at least the top 2% of the nodes (absolute worst case). With 10,000 nodes in the network, that means 200 people need to collude to merely attempt an attack. In Bitcoin, only the top two or three mining pools need to collude to attack the network.

How many people voted for Obama or Merkel?

Do you want to scale this to the masses? Or are we just playing a delusion game and keeping this within the crypto zealot market where we can pretend we have decentralization (e.g. Bitcoin today)?

In Skycoin, even if they succeed in attacking the network, one approach merely forks the network into two concurrent branches and it is resolved by hand, by individual node operators.

Since when did Grandma bother with such technical duties?

And what if node owners are paid to run a client which has been patched with code to serve some nefarious interests? What if this is presented to them as a net positive, i.e. offers some improvements in transaction clearing speed or some other desireable trait.

There are so many vectors to introduce failure of decentralized consensus I can't possibly enumerate them all.

In Skycoin the network security does not depend on the coin price

My flippant thought is that is impossible. Why would interest in the coin not decline if it was under attack?

The danger is that if we dont solve the last problem, that we will have Bitcoin like systems, but they will be controlled by the banks and not the public.

The public never controls anything, they are always controlled by the banks.

Decentralized consensus is a lie that doesn't exist in reality.

Analogous to how the fools who vote now don't realize the political system is captured by the banks, the crypto zealot fools don't realize the decentralized consensus systems will be captured by the banks too (via the government, NSA, etc).

Don't forget that the NSA has a black budget in the $5+ trillion range. Even Donald Rumsfeld admitted on national TV the evening before 9/11 that the $3 trillion was missing from the Pentagon budget. The records for this investigation were destroyed at the Pentagon when the plane (or missle) hit the Pentagon.

To me you appear to be very smart kids playing with Tinker Toys. You are not serious. If you want to be serious, you need to get brutally realistic about what is realistically feasible and what is instead "pie in the sky".

If you expect to perfect the universe and prioritize ideological "pies in the sky" then you will fail.

This is really a question about whether we end up with the Bitcoin technology in a walled garden, with gate keepers or whether it remains decentralized.

No the question at hand is whether you guys want to wake up from your myopia and get real, or if you prefer to mess around in delusions.

I say that with a high level of respect for your technical capabilities. I think you need help directing your talents to a better focus.

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February 24, 2015, 12:19:14 AM
 #1807


Whereas, I have an idea how to get off the ground immediately without any IPO funding (or very small funding maybe $100,000 max) and generate $billions in revenue for the developers over time in order to actually change the world.


Would you share what is that idea? I am sure many potential investors would fine useful that info to understand what could be on the table in case you are in the team.
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February 24, 2015, 12:24:48 AM
 #1808

Stuck again with windows installation.

I installed mingw.
Ran the mingw shell.

Managed to clone skycoin's github completely.

When I ran ./setup.sh

It got stuck with gvm and go1.4

"$ ./setup.sh
Installing gvm and go1.4
./install-gvm.sh: cannot make pipe for process substitution: Function not implem
ented
./install-gvm.sh: cannot make pipe for process substitution: Function not implem
ented
./install-gvm.sh: line 4: <(curl -s -S -L https://raw.githubusercontent.com/moov
web/gvm/master/binscripts/gvm-installer): ambiguous redirect
grep: /home/WitTheSecond/.bashrc: No such file or directory
./install-gvm.sh: line 15: /home/WitTheSecond/.gvm/scripts/gvm: No such file or
directory
./install-gvm.sh: line 18: gvm: command not found
./install-gvm.sh: line 24: gvm: command not found
Installing skycoin to $GOPATH
GOPATH is not set
Installing or updating skycoin dependencies
xargs: go: No such file or directory
Done
Do './run.sh -h' to confirm it is installed. This runs the daemon.
README.md has further instructions for building and running the gui.
"

I have a ubuntu live USB and a fresh drive. Would it be alot easier to use that?Huh


i have the same problem ... what can i do?
have no clue
uninstalled and reinstalled gvm and go .. compiled skycoin again
i'm on osx 10.10


actually it says llke that:

Downloading Go source...
Installing go1.4...
 * Compiling...
Installing skycoin to $GOPATH
GOPATH is not set
Installing or updating skycoin dependencies
xargs: go: No such file or directory
Done
Do './run.sh -h' to confirm it is installed. This runs the daemon.
README.md has further instructions for building and running the gui.
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February 24, 2015, 12:33:07 AM
 #1809


Whereas, I have an idea how to get off the ground immediately without any IPO funding (or very small funding maybe $100,000 max) and generate $billions in revenue for the developers over time in order to actually change the world.


Would you share what is that idea? I am sure many potential investors would fine useful that info to understand what could be on the table in case you are in the team.

I am hesitant to explicitly spell out the idea in public, although I've already alluded to it in public. Any one that was really astute and read my posts carefully would already have deduced it.

I am hesitant because if we have multiple copies of people trying to do the same idea, then it won't have the focus and inertia to get off the ground.

I would prefer to spell out the idea in private to those whom I trust and who "need to know", i.e. those who would be significant early investors and to the developers I would be working with.

It is much more efficient to do a Private Placement, than an IPO. The IPO in my idea would occur naturally after launch in the purchase of the coins for a necessary use of the coins. The coins would be dolled out at a rate that insures the price is going up, because the users will have no choice but to purchase coins otherwise they can't use the thing they VERY MUCH NEED.

That should be enough hints already actually.

As what I can see, the developers are overly invested in their consensus algorithm and want to focus their effort there.

Thus I agreed with chompZ that they should just proceed. And I should step away and go try to find a way to get my idea implemented.

I am teased by their apparent technical capabilities and their recognition of how bad the situation is. But they think they've found the Holy Grail with their consensus algorithm, so I guess we just are not going to be able to agree on the priorities.

Afaics, they have not provided to me a BitMessage key to communicate privately. No pressure. I must respect their right to set their own priorities. So I think we have a decision now? I can leave now?

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February 24, 2015, 01:20:02 AM
 #1810

Where can i find my seed per favor?

Lisk.
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February 24, 2015, 01:57:40 AM
 #1811

I sent 3 messages to the address provided. 4 hours have passed since the 1st one, but I haven't received anything so far.
me too, and the IPO is finally handled manually after some many delays?
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February 24, 2015, 05:02:59 AM
Last edit: February 24, 2015, 05:36:31 AM by iamback
 #1812

First of all, I don't fully know who the developers are, how many of them there are, who else is involved behind the scenes, and what their true plans are. For example, I don't know all the details about coin issuance and IPO. Often a non-PoW scheme is a cover for a way to monopolize the coins, because they are not distributed via the decentralized debasement of PoW. That was one of the flaws of or issues with PoS. If these specifics have been clearly mentioned in the OP then my apology for missing it.

So it is possible that anything I write might be falling on deaf ears because I may in essence be going against a pump-and-dump in great disguise (but I am not accusing them of that! just stating the possibilities that one must ponder). However, I will for the moment assume the developers are sincere (and naive?), because I detect some what appears to be idealistic motivation in their posts. So I want to help them not waste their time (if their motivation is really changing the world and not just a quick buck).

Taleb's Anti-fragility (i.e. autonomy) is why decentralized consensus is not decentralized

Thus, I want to make one more concise attempt to convince the developers that decentralized consensus is a lie, and that the only true decentralization arises from a plurality of competing choices.

In essence, all the arguments for a decentralized consensus remaining stable (resilient) against centralization are the stance that the majority (of nodes or participants) will "vote" (or "follow") for honesty over malfeasance. Even skycoin's prior post in essence makes that analogous argument in support of the robustness of the proposed Obelisk consensus algorithm in the worst case scenarios.

The problem with consensus is that it is a "winner take all" paradigm, i.e. by definition there is no way for a minority opinion to be heard. Thus the minority can not act on its wisdom and must instead follow the ("Too Big To Fail") herd. So for example, if a minority sees that the consensus is being gamed some how, and wants to break away (vote with their feet) they can not. Rather they have to try to prove to the majority what is happening and get the majority motivated to act. Doesn't that sound a lot like what we do now trying to convince our relatives of the problems with malfeasance in central banking, politics, etc and instead they either ignore us or they adopt Marxist objectives which further the concentration of wealth, e.g. "blame it all on the 1%, while we demand a government that gives us everything for free because we are poor and redistribution is justified!".

Whereas when there are competing choices, this is truly decentralization because the minority can autonomously break away to a choice that performs better, and the minority becomes more profitable ("smaller things grow faster, saplings grow to trees but trees don't grow to the moon"). For example right now you want to be discarding your Western citizenship and attaining citizenship in the small state of Singapore.

In our case, I have proposed a platform for competing currencies. One of the key elements of my proposal is to have the ability to purchase a unit in any currency that tracks (via options betting) any unit-of-account (e.g. USD or Bitcoin) that you desire. Thus you no longer are tied to the speculative value of the competing currencies if you don't desire to be, and thus there is no longer a need for the market to choose a "winner take all" because everyone can vote for the currency they feel is best managed while sharing a common unit-of-account across multiple currencies. This is the paradigm in money that has never been tried in the history of mankind.

I also proposed that fundamental building block is a secure communication network with hidden servers. Tor is broken. From this communication network, we can actually drive the demand for a cryptocurrency far beyond Bitcoin's current markets. I have vaguely alluded to the details of that and withheld perhaps some details.

For example, let's say a cryptocurrency was run by one group behind a hidden server. For as long as they publish all of the transactions and ledger then it can be verified whether they are honest, the same as Bitcoin's peers verify. If that central server is dishonest, the users can move their value out of that currency. But the users holding the pegged unit-of-account lose no value in doing so. The options traders take all that risk and will be the ones who predict in advance which currencies are well managed.  (btw, this also resolves many of the fundamental issues that plague Ethereum's designs). Even if the controllers of a centralized server tried to block all transactions and lock up the value, they could only succeed in destroying all the value in the coin and thus destroying their own power and reputation. Thus options traders would seek to verify the safeguards in place for the management of the currency.

This is very similar to the way decentralized consensus works in that if some nefarious group tries to take control of the consensus network, then the majority is expected to recognize this and fork away from that. The salient difference is that in my proposal of multiple competing currencies, it is actually very feasible for the minority to vote with their feet. It is an entirely autonomous action (i.e. it maximizes degrees-of-freedom)[1]! No amazing technical assumptions are required. They simply sell the coin that has problems. And the users who are holding pegged units-of-account don't incur any loses.

And there is nothing in my proposal that says the competing currencies can be PoW, PoS, Obelisk, consensus currencies. My proposal sits at a higher-level abstraction.

For me this is a no brainer clear direction. It beats the pants off anything else out there in the crypto world right now.

[1]
CoinJoin doesn't scale and/or it leaks anonymity (e.g. to the masternodes). It is not an autonomous block chain mixing thus it is inferior to one ring signatures. One time ring signatures can be implemented to be prune-able.

...IMO you are entirely missing the point...

Degrees-of-freedom and innovation is where all prosperity originates. Inflation and deflation have nearly nothing to do with it, because innovation is:

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html#Knowledge_Anneals

Quote from: myself
unexpected random chaotic fitness created from multitudes of random path dependencies that can only exist in the bottom-up free market

And innovation far outstrips the factors you are modeling.

I would like to get to the point of how to create decentralized money. I believe that is only achieved through a paradigm that enables multiple competing currencies, not through a winner take-all collective consensus (which I believe will always be a lie about decentralization). Specifically I have asserted (as well did Satoshi and Moldberg) that a widely adopted unit-of-account is the paramount factor in money (so that volatility is not a factor). Domestic businesses don't worry about the international dollar exchange rate. They can plan unfettered by that volatility.

All your top-down, cathedral models won't help you. Enable the free market to experiment and innovate. Don't try to proclaim you know the perfect design for all.

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html#Knowledge_Anneals

Quote from: myself
Knowledge Anneals

Unsophisticated thinkers have an incorrect understanding of knowledge creation, idolizing a well-structured top-down sparkling academic cathedral of vastly superior theoretical minds. Rather knowledge primary spawns from accretive learning due to unexpected random chaotic fitness created from multitudes of random path dependencies that can only exist in the bottom-up free market. Top-down systems are inherently fragile because they overcommit to egregious error (link to Taleb's simplest summary of the math). Given Kurzweil's sensationalized magnum opus is the technological singularity, it is surprising that he is apparently not well studied in the field of social knowledge formation.

Update: you are modeling the factors that were more paramount in the Industrial Age where fixed capital investment was a limiting factor on innovation. We are entering the Knowledge Age where all one needs is a computer and their mind.

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February 24, 2015, 06:34:00 AM
Last edit: February 24, 2015, 06:51:04 AM by skycoin_xtc
 #1813

i'm on osx 10.10

Downloading Go source...
Installing go1.4...
 * Compiling...
Installing skycoin to $GOPATH
GOPATH is not set
Installing or updating skycoin dependencies
xargs: go: No such file or directory
Done
Do './run.sh -h' to confirm it is installed. This runs the daemon.
README.md has further instructions for building and running the gui.

not sure if commands are different on OS X, but this is what you need to do

source "$HOME/.gvm/scripts/gvm" && gvm use go1.4
compile/get-dependencies.sh
compile/install-to-gopath.sh

then, you should be able to run wallet, generate addresses, etc.
Bitseed
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February 24, 2015, 06:39:45 AM
Last edit: February 24, 2015, 07:07:55 AM by Bitseed
 #1814

In our case, I have proposed a platform for competing currencies. One of the key elements of my proposal is to have the ability to purchase a unit in any currency that tracks (via options betting) any unit-of-account (e.g. USD or Bitcoin) that you desire. Thus you no longer are tied to the speculative value of the competing currencies if you don't desire to be, and thus there is no longer a need for the market to choose a "winner take all" because everyone can vote for the currency they feel is best managed while sharing a common unit-of-account across multiple currencies. This is the paradigm in money that has never been tried in the history of mankind.

What would the "common unit-of-account" be? Would it be a common coin to the platform, like Ripple or Bitshares, issued in a private offering and subsequent ICO? Or would it be distributed with some sort of proof of work? It could be a basket of assets, like shares in a hedge fund.

I do think that as Bitcoin becomes more 'mainstreamed' that the early adapters will transfer their value to another blockchain which reflects the original goals. There may be more than one alternate blockchain chosen.

The decentralized consensus problem reminds me of firefly synchronization in nature. Netlogo has a simulation written for it, http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Fireflies .  When the simulation is run, regions develop which are synchronized prior to the entire group of fireflies synching. These remind me of forks in blockchains. The parameters and code can be changed in the simulation, such as sensing range of fireflies and phasing thresholds of time through flash cycle for when to reset flash to sync. For some settings of the parameters, global sync is never reached. Video of real fireflies synching is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Vy7NZTGos . Some latency across the group can be observed, with the upper left flashing slightly ahead of the lower right.

Bitseed - dedicated full node hardware
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February 24, 2015, 07:08:29 AM
 #1815

Hello skycoin,

I have no hope of purchasing any of these coins as I have no idea what to do as it all seems far to much of an involved and complicated process to purchase any.

I have been following Skycoin for quite some time and was very excited about it.
When you first mentioned the price @ .10 cents I found it hard to understand the justification of such a high price with 100 million coins to be released and being at the initial offerings. I thought you may have brought the price down.
I would still like to purchase some but I will purchase far less than I would have originally as it is such a high risk at this stage.

I wish you could somehow make this process of coin purchase far easier so people like myself have a chance to purchase a few.

Thanks.



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February 24, 2015, 07:30:14 AM
Last edit: February 24, 2015, 09:23:18 AM by iamback
 #1816

I think this is too much of me spamming Skycoin's thread. They have been enormously patient with my too numerous posts in their thread. Unless the developers engage me in further discussion, I kindly ask that any further discussion directed at me be move to another thread. Simply provide a link here or in PM please. Feel free to create a discussion thread.

In our case, I have proposed a platform for competing currencies. One of the key elements of my proposal is to have the ability to purchase a unit in any currency that tracks (via options betting) any unit-of-account (e.g. USD or Bitcoin) that you desire. Thus you no longer are tied to the speculative value of the competing currencies if you don't desire to be, and thus there is no longer a need for the market to choose a "winner take all" because everyone can vote for the currency they feel is best managed while sharing a common unit-of-account across multiple currencies. This is the paradigm in money that has never been tried in the history of mankind.

What would the "common unit-of-account" be? Would it be a common coin to the platform, like Ripple or Bitshares, issued in a private offering and subsequent ICO? Or would it be distributed with some sort of proof of work? It could be a basket of assets, like shares in a hedge fund.

None of those. I had already mentioned "option bets".

My idea is decentralized option bets, with two parties taking opposing positions on the move of the currency relative to the specified unit-of-account exchange rate. Leverage relative to exchange rate movement could vary for different bets. When the currency declines in value (an asymmetry in the opposing risks), then the difference has to be taken from the margin posted to make the 3rd party holder of the unit-of-account constant in value. There needs to be auto-settlement so that if the posted margin is depleted, the unit-of-account contract is settled instantly. Afaics, there could be built automated bots which settle and recontract the unit with a new free market bet with new margins posted.

The free market of bid and ask should determine the bets. So the asymmetry will be factored in by the free market of bid and ask.

In other words, I propose an option system where there is no centralized counter party risk. The protocol makes sure settlement occurs before margin is depleted.

We could create a common trading platform for all these competing currencies, i.e. decentralized exchanges with the appropriate logic and APIs. In essense, Skycoin and some of jl777's work for NXT are mentioning some of these similar ideas about decentralized exchanges and platforms for multiple currencies, but afaics they have missed slightly the key insights of what we really need. (Btw, I am still in communication with jl777, but I am not aligned with him and these ideas do not originate from discussion with him)

I am not an expert on options, so perhaps my idea is flawed?

Afair, the BitShares BitUSD functioned differently but I don't recall all the details. (I might go look up the details and edit this post later)

Edit#1: the flaw in my idea is that no one will buy these options because someone else can offer another set of options with the same features that do not have the asymmetric loses (given to the holder of the unit-of-account when the exchange rate declines). The holder would need to pay some cost for the others to take on this asymmetric risk. The holder would have to weigh this cost against the risk (cost) of holding the unit-of-account in its normal form, e.g. USD in a bank. Note we are moving towards negative interest rates so it will actually cost money to store your fiat in a bank or sovereign bonds.


Edit#2: silly me. All I am really advocating is that users can buy puts. The standard models for options apply. The carrying cost of the put will be relative to the volatility of the exchange rate. I think the Black–Scholes model applies.

https://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/core-finance/derivative-securities/Black-Scholes/v/implied-volatility

Edit#3: Okay I see that what we originally told Daniel Larimer (bytemaster) in this forum in 2013 was finally accepted as reality and so they adjusted their design to use a price feed:

http://docs.bitshares.org/content/price_stability.html

So the buyer of the unit-of-account is essentially buying a put (the right to sell his currency for a constant price relative to the unit-of-account) and the other party (is not a short seller!) is buying a call, i.e. is paid a carrying cost for offering to buy that currency at the strike price. A decentralized exchange would match buyers of these puts and calls, where the bid and ask would be for the carrying costs. If the current exchange price is the implied strike price, bids and asks would need to be updated as often as the exchange price changes (but this is conceptually no different than when strike prices are constant and bid and asks change constantly as the market price changes). There would be different contracts for different expirations.

So all BitAssets are is an attempt at a decentralized options market. But it is only for their currency and not a platform for competing currencies. And they are using a single price feed voted on by consensus, whereas I proposed that there be different contracts for different price feeds so that each contract can use a different price feed server (more degrees-of-freedom).

Edit#4: there is another wrinkle that can be considered. It is possible to give some of the upside to the buyer of the unit-of-account, so they have no risk to the downside, but retain some of the upside appreciation if the currency they hold  appreciates. But this will increase the carrying cost, i.e. the price the buyer needs to pay for the unit-of-account insurance. Rather the buyer could also obtain the same effect by holding some portion in the unit-of-account (without upside) and some in the uninsured holding of the currency.

Edit#5: the market for buyers of such unit-of-account contracts are people who want to diversify their (e.g. USD) holdings into crypto-currency without the volatility risk, i.e. they want the advantages of anonymity, autonomy, instant transactions, without the volatility of crypto-currency. Or for example, you want to invest in Bitcoin, but you like the anonymity and instant transactions of an altcoin, so you can get both for a carrying cost, where the carrying cost is related to the volatility of that altcoin relative to the unit-of-account chosen. Thus altcoins can compete to gain marketshare and thus less volatility.

Bottom line is competing currencies as true decentralization and more degrees-of-freedom instead of "one size fits all, one winner forced on everyone".

Password scrambled, ACCOUNT IS NO LONGER ACTIVE. Formerly AnonyMint, TheFascistMind, contagion, UnunoctaniumTesticles.
cryptrol
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February 24, 2015, 07:51:39 AM
 #1817

...
Afaics, they have not provided to me a BitMessage key to communicate privately.
...

It's in the OP.
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February 24, 2015, 12:16:48 PM
 #1818


not sure if commands are different on OS X, but this is what you need to do

source "$HOME/.gvm/scripts/gvm" && gvm use go1.4
compile/get-dependencies.sh
compile/install-to-gopath.sh

then, you should be able to run wallet, generate addresses, etc.

thank you!

now ... when i want to build the client .. it says:

Compiling with go
# github.com/skycoin/skycoin/src/cipher/secp256k1-go
exec: "o32-clang": executable file not found in $PATH
go compilation failed
skycoin_xtc
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February 24, 2015, 12:47:18 PM
Last edit: February 24, 2015, 04:39:04 PM by skycoin_xtc
 #1819

now ... when i want to build the client .. it says:

Compiling with go
# github.com/skycoin/skycoin/src/cipher/secp256k1-go
exec: "o32-clang": executable file not found in $PATH
go compilation failed

not sure

if you've done everything mentioned previously, the client should be installed already

did you try running the wallet, generating addresses, etc. immediately after the last step?


fresh install

Linux:
sudo apt-get install curl git mercurial make binutils gcc bzr bison libgmp3-dev -y

OS X:
brew install mercurial bzr

git clone https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin.git
cd skycoin
./setup.sh

source "$HOME/.gvm/scripts/gvm" && gvm use go1.4
compile/get-dependencies.sh
compile/install-to-gopath.sh

Generating Addresses, public keys, private keys:  
go run ./cmd/address_gen/address_gen.go --help

Running Skycoin Full Node:  
go run ./cmd/skycoin/skycoin.go -web-interface=true
then go to: 127.0.0.1:6420 (or 6402)
skycoin_xtc
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February 24, 2015, 01:01:03 PM
 #1820

Has skycoin launched?
How to get a million skycoins or even 100k skycoins?
Where do i buy

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=380441.msg10555070#msg10555070
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