[SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement

[reverse02]

It's a work in progress -  100 years ago women couldn't even vote, so it takes time to implement the prefect free society if that is possible at all.  

which direction does the nato progress?
which direction does goldman sachs progress?

I have never heard you would criticises the fucking corrupt communist Chinese ruling class that operates a totalitarian maffia state or Yemen

Actually I didnt't see him not criticising China or anyone else, he is criticising them as well .. quite accurate in my opinion

However i found it an interesting read every time
technology is used by politics ... so i d like to know which attitude makes the technology
i like an attitude that has no problem with honesty, equal rights, secularity, peace, openness, and criticising itself - that's progress

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[altcoinUK]

which direction does the nato progress?
which direction does goldman sachs progress?

Far from the ideal and far from the perfect direction, however in my opinion it is a lot better than the direction of the totalitarian, corrupt, communist ruling class that governs China or North Korea or the extremist, lunatic Muslims direction that prevents girls from education and destroys several thousands years old Buddhist arts.

However i found it an interesting read every time

Me too, however lately not a lot of information about the software but mainly these political and philosophical wondering.

[-Greed-]

Lol the dev's still posting tons of useless text. He has been doing it for almost 2 years and because of it obviously the coin is still not released. See you in 2020 nothing will change.

[skycoin]

A group of researchers have reverse-engineered the NSA's retro reflectors, and has recreated them using software-defined radio (SDR)
- https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/06/building_retro_.html

[skycoin]

Lol the dev's still posting tons of useless text. He has been doing it for almost 2 years and because of it obviously the coin is still not released. See you in 2020 nothing will change.

Skycoin has been in development since Litecoin. It has been about four years, not two. It has been on github for two years.

The network has been running continuously for over a year and a half now I think. With a few blockchain resets.

Right now, altcoins are like horse racing. They only exist for pumping and are a form of gambling. I didnt want Skycoin to become like that, but over time realized there is nothing I can do about it. So went ahead and released it before its "useful" in a utilitarian sense, as being part of a larger system that justifies its existence and creates non-speculative demand.

It is mostly just developers and tech people now. There are a few steps we need to open it to the Dogecoin/Litecoin crowd.
- the domain needs to be up (not sure why this wasnt done a year ago; someone was supposed to do this)
- would help if the crypto port to pure go is done, so builds are automatic. this is what will make android/iOS wallet possible
- exchange.

There is too much going on right now and most of it is non-code related.  Global supply chain logistics and other misc.

[skycoin]

Update:

The FCC just banned open source wifi router firmware in the United States. All manufacturs selling routers have to lock the firmware down. Permanent NSA/FISA court back doors for everyone.

http://www.infoq.com/news/2015/07/FCC-Blocks-Open-Source
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=39498&switch=P

This comes after hounding of the TrueCrypt developer and suppression of meshnet project at defcon.

[altcoinUK]

>It's a work in progress -  100 years ago women couldn't even vote, so it takes time to implement the prefect free society if that is possible at all.  

Voting is completely fake. The only time voting was real, was when the government was unable to collect income tax and was less than 2% of GDP. After the government became large, the amount of money and power under political control meant there was vigorous competition for controls of the political system, which eventually turned into collusion against the public.

No it's not fake. It's largely imbalanced and it is very difficult to to challenge the status quo, but the process more or less works. See Syriza in Greece that could from a government, regardless what was the wish of the EU establishment. So don't tell me that the western democracy doesn't work - the bigger issue is that people don't care about politics and not interested be involved in the democratic process. Once they are interested - see Greece - there could be a radical change (not that I agree with the crazy policy of Syriza).

You don't have to convince me that the western society is far from perfect - I understand that. I also share your notion that the voting system provides voters with rather limited choices. You can imagine I am here in this forum, because I am not entirely happy about the political establishment nor I am a big fun of the corrupt banking system. However, the political system of the Western societies is the best what the human race could invent in the last 5,000 years. That's it what it is. It's a work in progress. Still, our western democratic systems in my opinion is significantly better than China where corrupt communists operates political prisons or the Muslim states based on religious fundamentalist principles where women can't drive car and girls aren't allowed to attend schools. 

The mass surveillance is a real concern, it's effect our freedom. We technology people can make difference by rolling out software and hardware that provides users with privacy, precisely what you try to achieve here with the mesh network or the Gadgetcoin guys with the secure video chat software.

Again, in my opinion it would be better if you would focus on software design and try to develop your software instead of banging on these political issues ... your obvious talent would be more productively utilized by designing software ...  but of course you do what makes you happy :-))))) so it's all cool, you do what you want, it was just a suggestion from me.

[TPTB_need_war]

Update:

The FCC just banned open source wifi router firmware in the United States. All manufacturs selling routers have to lock the firmware down. Permanent NSA/FISA court back doors for everyone.

http://www.infoq.com/news/2015/07/FCC-Blocks-Open-Source
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=39498&switch=P

This comes after hounding of the TrueCrypt developer and suppression of meshnet project at defcon.

It shows that TPTB prefer to take action against the centralized aspects of the system, i.e. the manufacturers. This is why centralization of mining in crypto is so dangerous.

[TPTB_need_war]

The good news is software developers are about $2000/month here.

Wait a minute.

David Zimbeck traveled to over seas in order to find developers that he could afford (roughly $2000 a month).

David Zimbeck works heavily with Golang.

And David Zimbeck suggested that BitBay (that wonderfully fabulous disaster of a scam) would work on Meshnet projects in the future.

Yes, three points of contact is pretty slim but I'm going out on a limb and calling Skycoin dev is actually Zimbeck (with the possibility of multiple users of infamy trading account use).  There might be other similarities if one was motivated to do some tedious compare and contrast; or none.  I suspect the latter since I don't believe that a lot of altcoin devs decided to go overseas in order to find cheap developers (correct me if I am wrong).

Be careful with your funds, people.  

I am happy to crowdfund this project even if David Zimbeck is the Skycoin dev. David is a very smart young man and while he had a very shady role in the Bitbay shamble he can make that up to the digital currency community by delivering a good software which I hope Skycoin will be.

I actually would tend to agree.  I have some pretty mass respect for his talent and think that he is capable of it.

I was/am excited for this project but if he is working on multiple projects in tandem with the ill advised collaboration with -omitted- then I think caution is not bad advice.

I'm not here to fud and will leave it at that.  I prefer lurking and supporting on my own whims but thought this was relevant enough to post.

I just expended 30 minutes studying this boy genius who I assume could kick my butt in chess.

http://bitcoinwarrior.net/2014/09/talk-david-zimbeck-bitcoin-2-0-bithalo-blackhalo-nighttrader/

His BlackHalo main innovation is double deposit.

Well I have to raise my hand and blow a hole in his balloon, for the same analogous reason that I (as AnonyMint) did to Gregory Maxwell in his CoinJoin thread.

The problem is DoS attack. If you have to place your double deposit with an unknown party, then you can be DoS'ed to hell and have gridlock.

gmaxwell retorted that the adversary could be blacklisted by coin address but the entire point of anonymity on spending is to enable one to obscuring the payer, thus whoops he can't achieve that without some global blacklist which is about as evil as it gets.

Fail.

[TPTB_need_war]

In general, I think there are only three legit/non-scam projects going right now. I also think when the EU communist nazi fascist dictatorship central committee finishes banning cash, that about thirty percent of the EU GDP that is underground will begin to shift into Bitcoin and the alts. So we may see 2000x increases and about six trillion a year of capital flowing into Bitcoin/alts.

Another developer who thinks anonymity is more than a fascination, but what anonymity features does his Skycoin have?

[TPTB_need_war]

The Good News

I dont have to work on the hardware because there are forty groups doing that now. There have been a number of modules for the raspberry pi and Arduino in in the past few months.

The Skycoin project only has to worry about implementing a corporate type software defined networking solution™. So the two parts left are very small and focused.

Duh! I could have told you months ago to let hardware people handle the hardware.

I see you released your white paper on the consensus algorithm.

Why are you not focused on your core competency?

Also both the West and the East are entering a Global Technocracy. Neither is superior in that regard. It is true that Asia has less debt and lower incomes so it will grow GDP (after the interim collapse to 2020) and the West will shrink GDP. But in terms of national biometric ids, Smart Meters on every home, etc.. China is also leading the way. Don't be so smug.

[illodin]

In general, I think there are only three legit/non-scam projects going right now. I also think when the EU communist nazi fascist dictatorship central committee finishes banning cash, that about thirty percent of the EU GDP that is underground will begin to shift into Bitcoin and the alts. So we may see 2000x increases and about six trillion a year of capital flowing into Bitcoin/alts.

Another developer who thinks anonymity is more than a fascination, but what anonymity features does his Skycoin have?

This post has some speculation on how to implement anonymity. Coinjoin and 3rd party mixers are mentioned. Whether any of that is yet actually implemented, or if the plans are even the same anymore, I don't know.

[TPTB_need_war]

Our new paper of phase II research on consensus is released: http://arxiv.org/abs/1507.03927
Still a lot to do further.

I will quote from your white paper:

Under the SkyHash model the wiki dataset can survive under
DoS attack committed by 7% random nodes or 0.9% top
influential nodes defined as the first 0.9% nodes by sorting all
nodes in descendant order on the count of a node’s followees,
however, the throughput will decrease 50% even when the
network survives. In all the cases that the network survives,
correct nodes can always reach almost-everywhere consensus
within 45 seconds without correct nodes agree at different
values, while under DoS attack by 7% random nodes, 1.5%
nodes refuse to agree at any values, and under DoS attack by
0.9% top influential nodes, 4% nodes refuse to agree at any
values.
As we introduced in Section II, Bitcoin’s PoW is the
best Sybil-proof consensus at present, but it is a different
mechanism to our work and not comparable directly in Fig. 6.
Through the automatic adjustment of the difficulty of PoW,
Bitcoin generates a block in about 10 minutes, and a fully
confirmed consensus need 6 blocks thus needs about 1 hour.
However if a single node or a group of nodes has a large
proportion of compute power, it can compromise the network
and create a fork. Table II shows the probability of success
attack for 6 blocks confirmations [23]. If one adversary in
Bitcoin has a threatening compute power, the whole network
can’t do anything to resist it because the power is controlled
by the adversary itself, while in our approach a node’s power
is controlled by its followees, thus a node can be unarmed by
unfollowing it.

I would not emphasize the speed of your consensus, because there are ways to alter proof-of-work so that instantaneous transactions can be achieved.

Rather the key innovations of your consensus algorithm appear to be:

• It is based on reputation following instead of compute power.
• The fail case is only 7% (or 0.9% for influential nodes) versus 50% (or actually as low as 25% for selfish-mining) for proof-of-work.
• It doesn't waste computing resources and electricity.

I am sorry to inform you that it is possible to make a proof-of-work system that can filter the 51% attack.

[TPTB_need_war]

I don't know what to make of this Skycoin. There is some technical talent. Appears maybe they are sincere. Yet they post a lot of scary words without sufficient citations to prove these scare monger claims, e.g. the claims of doctor in Texas doing bioweapon testing on prisoners. Is that something you read on some Alex Jones site?

Yet the technical results achieved thus far are not so spectacular but not worthless either (see my analysis of the consensus algorithm white paper in the prior post).

I can't decide if this is scam, or what. Seems like maybe a somewhat technically knowledgeable westerner who is shoestring traveling across Asia who writes the long scare monger posts (which may have some validity but seem exaggerated), and he collects the money and pays the Chinese researcher who did the consensus algorithm white paper?

I really don't know.

I don't know how any one can buy an IPO for something that isn't finished and available for trade  

Is there any mechanism by which Skycoins can be sold, so that people who invested in the IPO can divest if they want to? And others can purchase their coins?

The absence of a trading market is indicative of scam. Skycoin please try to correct this asap.

Perhaps you are legit. So please don't leave IPO investors trapped in a non-transparent market.

Or were they told they were angel investors with indefinite time frame for liquidity?

I am really not trying to rain on your parade. I left your thread for the past months. Recently one of your IPO investors asked if I could take a look at the recently released white paper. So I did as a courtesy to him.

Also I want to say thank you, because I got one of my inspirations for a design from this thread some months ago. So again I recognize there is some technical knowledge here. Just not sure about the execution and organization.

Good luck.

[yufu571]

I don't know what to make of this Skycoin. There is some technical talent. Appears maybe they are sincere. Yet they post a lot of scary words without sufficient citations to prove these scare monger claims, e.g. the claims of doctor in Texas doing bioweapon testing on prisoners. Is that something you read on some Alex Jones site?

Yet the technical results achieved thus far are not so spectacular but not worthless either (see my analysis of the consensus algorithm white paper in the prior post).

I can't decide if this is scam, or what. Seems like maybe a somewhat technically knowledgeable westerner who is shoestring traveling across Asia who writes the long scare monger posts (which may have some validity but seem exaggerated), and he collects the money and pays the Chinese researcher who did the consensus algorithm white paper?

I really don't know.

I don't know how any one can buy an IPO for something that isn't finished and available for trade  

Is there any mechanism by which Skycoins can be sold, so that people who invested in the IPO can divest if they want to? And others can purchase their coins?

The absence of a trading market is indicative of scam. Skycoin please try to correct this asap.

Perhaps you are legit. So please don't leave IPO investors trapped in a non-transparent market.

Or were they told they were angel investors with indefinite time frame for liquidity?

I am really not trying to rain on your parade. I left your thread for the past months. Recently one of your IPO investors asked if I could take a look at the recently released white paper. So I did as a courtesy to him.

Also I want to say thank you, because I got one of my inspirations for a design from this thread some months ago. So again I recognize there is some technical knowledge here. Just not sure about the execution and organization.

Good luck.

It seems that Skycoin is premature death. He got money from investors months ago, but provided nothing to his investors.
Skycoin project is becoming a scam.

[skycoin]

Research Update:

Six months ago I began research into economic systems for the meshnet.
- routing (how to choose routes over the topology)
- payment (how much payment for transit should each node reach, how should price be set)

The naive system is to
- choose the shortest route
- choose the lowest cost route

If there are two paths, that transit from point A to point B and the lowest cost route is always chosen, then one node ends up with all the traffic. The paths auction their cost to zero and no profit or incentive exists for expansion. This deters adaption on the provider/hardware side. Similarly, when there is a single path between the two hosts, the path can charge any fee and price gouge, which deters meshnet adaption on the user side.

So
- one path between two points with no competition ends up with monopoly pricing (same as Comcast)
- two or more paths competing in auction model, bids price down to zero (zero marginal cost)

This is a contradiction in the economic model that leads to pathological behavior.

Another possible model is
- the price per bandwidth is fixed allow all links in the network
- the lowest cost path should be taken (in this case, the shortest path)

The optimal arrangement should
- minimize latency between any two points
- maximize throughput between two points
- guarantee profitability to the node operators, to incentive expansion

There are other contradictions, such as the coin being finite in quantity (a stock) and the bandwidth being infinite (a flow). If there is a 1 Gb/s link between two points and it is not used at full capacity, then the unused bandwidth is wasted. If you do not send 1 Gb this second, it is lost and the capacity cannot be stored. The mismatch between the units of stocks and flows means that the network will be under utilized.

If a mesh node costs $60 and the operator can make $60 in the first month, then the size and coverage of the network can double every month, profitably. So if the capacity requirement is 100 Mb/s for an area, then the network expansion will be slower if there are six nodes competing to fulfill that capacity, than if there are only two nodes.

There is Darwinian natural selection between competing economic models for funding and expanding a mesh topology. All of the current models are non-viable. The TOR "do it for free" model, only works because the NSA is paying for most of the nodes and its still slow.

This is a multi-agent coordination and control problem, optimization problem and cybernetics problem.  I found the optimal solution under a toy model and I am satisfied with it.

While researching the effect of different money systems on behavior of the network, I went through several scenarios
- fixed number of coins and no inflation
- fixed number of coins and constant inflation
- nodes create/loan coins into existence as credit (tit-for tat) with periodic settlement

In the third model, if user A uses a path, they give user B coin credit and and then if user B uses a path controlled by A, then it decreases the credit. After a while, the credit balances would be settled as Skycoin on the blockchain or the credit balances sold or traded. Or else the user gets throttled to a lower level or put behind traffic with a better balance of payment. This ends up being identical to Ripple Pay (the original, not to be confused with Ripple) but backed by a finite resource.

Under different currency systems, you get different network behavior. The profitability for the node operator varies, the bandwidth utilization heavily depends on it. The price and appreciation of the coin also ends up depending heavily on the economic model.

There is darwinian selection on economic forms and types of meshnets and incentives. To achieve dominance, a meshnet or decentralized model has to provide higher bandwidth at lower cost than the alternative monolithic ISP model. A meshnet or community controlled network may become the dominant form in Afghanistan or rural areas where monolithic ISPs have no incentive to provide service, while in an urban area or a different situation, the dominant economic form may different.

There are trade offs. The economic form that out competes the other forms may be better or worse for the node operators or may be better or worse than alternatives for the users or may be better or worse than other forms for the coin price and asset holders.

[altcoinUK]

Cool.

What is that $60 hardware, does it exists, do we have a schematic for the hardware already or it is just a plan at this moment in time?

If you need help with the hardware and the firmware let me know, I can help with ARM, AVR, etc. firmware and embedded design, but actually someone above was right to say that if you can, then let the hardware people handle the hardware (if not such hardware exists yet then that is another matter of course).

I am not sure what is the topology of the meshnet (so it would be great to see finally at least a high level design about the meshnet), but in my opinion you will have a virtually unsolvable issue with the FCC in the US. We can't even bring to market a simple Zigbee sensor or Bluetooth device without spending 20K with the FCC, surely you would have a big mountain to climb if you need to convince the FCC about to allow operating the meshnet.

[Wit22]

I'm still following skycoin closely.
Been watching for a long time now.

The political posts are always create a mixture of disbelief, fear and interest for me. They cause me to think about things. The part about the assassination of presidents for special interests struck a nerve. The hit on JFK was super professional. It would have been probably cheap / easy to find a someone like Oswald to take the fall for it. Maybe he was in massive debt, maybe you told him that they'd take care of his family forever after his death...
Seems simple. Lower JFK's defense protocol. Setup multiple shooters. Emotionally leverage oswald into taking the fall. Okay now JFK is gone. Now we can get back to the business of making money. Seems very plausible.

9/11 also has always seemed suspicious to me. Why did it look like a controlled demolition when it was only hit at the top of the building? They say that the jet fuel flowed down the centre and burned out the foundations? Why did the trade centre nearby, which didnt get damaged by anything, also get demolished?

I feel some degree of fear because, what if an involvement in this project makes me a target. Should I be using proxies to hide my identity while posting on this thread?
Im just a nobody though...

Regarding the IPO, can we all get an update on it?
Has the trading started?
I was waiting for the technical issues to be fixed before buying in.
I want to buy in.

[provenceday]

when will skycoin be listed on a exchange platform？

or community will develop a exchange platform for skycoin?

thank you

[elelegzet]

 Yes, please, release the roadmap for investors.