State of Vermont ( Single Payer Healthcare ) puts Obamacare to shame!!

[Wilikon]

The NHS works extremely well and leads to much better health outcomes overall as compared to the US system.

Indeed, very err... efficient:
Patients with terminal illnesses are being made to die prematurely under an NHS scheme to help end their lives, leading doctors have warned.
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.
But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is improving, the experts warn.
As a result the scheme is causing a “national crisis” in patient care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke’s cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.
“Forecasting death is an inexact science,”they say. Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death “without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html

[1715229694]

1715229694

[mistress_magpie]

If you want to have an argument about palliative care, you might want to do it on a medical forum - the argument you made can be made to any private or public hospice facility, across the world.

[Wilikon]

If you want to have an argument about palliative care, you might want to do it on a medical forum - the argument you made can be made to any private or public hospice facility, across the world.

Bitcointalk.org is across the world and the new medicine for money 

[mistress_magpie]

i agree that bitcoin is the medicine for money - and the medicine for many other social ills.

[Wilikon]

i agree that bitcoin is the medicine for money - and the medicine for many other social ills.

So then my point about NHS on this thread under the Politics & Society would be valid then, would you say? You don't have to agree with it, nor with the link of course.

[mistress_magpie]

It's valid, but what I am telling you is that palliative care is fraught with these sorts of decisions no matter how healthcare is paid for in a given country.

[Spendulus]

It's valid, but what I am telling you is that palliative care is fraught with these sorts of decisions no matter how healthcare is paid for in a given country.

Naw, you just set up Death Panels to handle that problem.  Then you staff them with connected people so that you can exert some, you know, pull, like when a child of a major contributor to the Pary is seriously sick.

The Pull Factor is very important in getting the Death Panels to function correctly.  Also it's important to see that the rank and file of Government Employees, as well as Congressmen and Senators, plus their staff, have a different health care system than the common man.

Would you like more details on how to get it all to work - correctly?

[User_513]

VT is becoming more & more socialist by the day it seems. The only way to solve the issues caused by government intervention in the health care industry is to remove the government entirely from the health care industry. But you know who'd never allow that? The largest & most influential ($$$) players in the health care industry who have, over the years, authored most of the legislation which has caused the cost of health care to skyrocket. For their own benefit.

Being a fucking cheerleader for those who are raping as many as they can of as much as they can for as long as they can is simply bad form.

[Hawker]

VT is becoming more & more socialist by the day it seems. The only way to solve the issues caused by government intervention in the health care industry is to remove the government entirely from the health care industry. But you know who'd never allow that? The largest & most influential ($$$) players in the health care industry who have, over the years, authored most of the legislation which has caused the cost of health care to skyrocket. For their own benefit.

Being a fucking cheerleader for those who are raping as many as they can of as much as they can for as long as they can is simply bad form.

Hmm.

You need to make your mind up.  Either its OK to profit from someone being too sick to negotiate or its not.  If you think its OK then you are for the "raping" you complain of.  If you think its not, then you are for the single payer option you complain of.

[Spendulus]

VT is becoming more & more socialist by the day it seems. The only way to solve the issues caused by government intervention in the health care industry is to remove the government entirely from the health care industry. But you know who'd never allow that? The largest & most influential ($$$) players in the health care industry who have, over the years, authored most of the legislation which has caused the cost of health care to skyrocket. For their own benefit.

Being a fucking cheerleader for those who are raping as many as they can of as much as they can for as long as they can is simply bad form.

Hmm.

You need to make your mind up.  Either its OK to profit from someone being too sick to negotiate or its not.  If you think its OK then you are for the "raping" you complain of.  If you think its not, then you are for the single payer option you complain of.

So you're for socialist cheerleaders with bad form?

[Hawker]

VT is becoming more & more socialist by the day it seems. The only way to solve the issues caused by government intervention in the health care industry is to remove the government entirely from the health care industry. But you know who'd never allow that? The largest & most influential ($$$) players in the health care industry who have, over the years, authored most of the legislation which has caused the cost of health care to skyrocket. For their own benefit.

Being a fucking cheerleader for those who are raping as many as they can of as much as they can for as long as they can is simply bad form.

Hmm.

You need to make your mind up.  Either its OK to profit from someone being too sick to negotiate or its not.  If you think its OK then you are for the "raping" you complain of.  If you think its not, then you are for the single payer option you complain of.

So you're for socialist cheerleaders with bad form?

You advocate criminalising parents who import drugs for their sick children.  Until you find a rationalisation for that, what do you care about other health issues?

[cp1]

Obama would have loved single payer but the republicans and insurance companies would never go for it.  So they are actually the ones who came up with obamacare.

[Spendulus]

VT is becoming more & more socialist by the day it seems. The only way to solve the issues caused by government intervention in the health care industry is to remove the government entirely from the health care industry. But you know who'd never allow that? The largest & most influential ($$$) players in the health care industry who have, over the years, authored most of the legislation which has caused the cost of health care to skyrocket. For their own benefit.

Being a fucking cheerleader for those who are raping as many as they can of as much as they can for as long as they can is simply bad form.

Hmm.

You need to make your mind up.  Either its OK to profit from someone being too sick to negotiate or its not.  If you think its OK then you are for the "raping" you complain of.  If you think its not, then you are for the single payer option you complain of.

So you're for socialist cheerleaders with bad form?

You advocate criminalising parents who import drugs for their sick children.  Until you find a rationalisation for that, what do you care about other health issues?

Has it occurred to you that what you actually are doing...

is playing 'socialist cheerleader?'

with 'bad form?'

[Hawker]

VT is becoming more & more socialist by the day it seems. The only way to solve the issues caused by government intervention in the health care industry is to remove the government entirely from the health care industry. But you know who'd never allow that? The largest & most influential ($$$) players in the health care industry who have, over the years, authored most of the legislation which has caused the cost of health care to skyrocket. For their own benefit.

Being a fucking cheerleader for those who are raping as many as they can of as much as they can for as long as they can is simply bad form.

Hmm.

You need to make your mind up.  Either its OK to profit from someone being too sick to negotiate or its not.  If you think its OK then you are for the "raping" you complain of.  If you think its not, then you are for the single payer option you complain of.

So you're for socialist cheerleaders with bad form?

You advocate criminalising parents who import drugs for their sick children.  Until you find a rationalisation for that, what do you care about other health issues?

Has it occurred to you that what you actually are doing...

is playing 'socialist cheerleader?'

with 'bad form?'

Google 'ad hominem' and then make an intelligent point please? The subject is single payer healthcare.

[Spendulus]

The NHS works extremely well and leads to much better health outcomes overall as compared to the US system.

Indeed, very err... efficient:
Patients with terminal illnesses are being made to die prematurely ...l

Interesting that the above bolded argument, recently repeated over and over when ObamaFuckedUpCare was a future thing, is now being repeated over and over as a support for Vermontcare.

I guess if something is off in the future and the goal is to sell the people on the fantasy, most any old argument will do nicely.  Just as long as it's repeated.

And I want a Carl's Jr Burger!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo5gPG72KM

[Spendulus]

Obama would have loved single payer but the republicans and insurance companies would never go for it.  So they are actually the ones who came up with obamacare.

No, sorry.  Ain't no way something named "OBamacare" is bush's.  It'be "Bushcare" and it ain't.

Back to the title of the OP which is quite interesting.

Re: State of Vermont ( Single Payer Healthcare ) puts Obamacare to shame!!

Translated:  Something that doesn't exist (Vermontcare) is far better than something that now exists (Obamacare).

In logic, that's called an "Irrefutable hypothesis".

[Wilikon]

Obama would have loved single payer but the republicans and insurance companies would never go for it.  So they are actually the ones who came up with obamacare.

Mmuuhhahahahaha!

[Spendulus]

Obama would have loved single payer but the republicans and insurance companies would never go for it.  So they are actually the ones who came up with obamacare.

Mmuuhhahahahaha!

Indeed.  By this logic Obama came up with the Iraq War II.

[bitpop]

California's is pretty good too
Only the lazy states that didn't setup their own got screwed the federal site

[nodroids]

Good for Vermont. Almost %80 of Americans support medicare for all.