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Pikachu4170
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January 05, 2014, 06:52:58 PM
 #41

The post is updated.

We WILL be using Raspberry Pis and install them ASIC miners...

More info on the first post!

Keep replying with your thoughts!
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January 05, 2014, 10:37:37 PM
 #42

So little devils advocate here, been involved in quite a handful of DC and higher end server environment build-outs so while do consider this an interesting ideas there are some ideas you need to cross.

First with this location how are you going to provide secure access to the environment, a full glass building is far from ideal from several reasons. One being ease of access from the outside which unfortunately allows for a lower classification on security. While you could offset that by building internal secure access areas you then are faced with the natural disaster scenario and what it can/cannot withstand. While Florida is not prone to acts of god, hurricanes and building classifications Im sure are more prominentS.

Second, building power and feeds to be classified as any sort of redundancy you need two physical lines of power from two different hard line runs from two separate power plants. Often times with larger buildings these are readily available but considering while this may start small you have to take into account the fact that even 30 min of downtime regarding power since these are in-production money producing machines is only tolerable to a certain extent.

Third, cooling requirements again this plays into the first part and why glass buildings are not usually used for any sort of high density server environment. Unless separating physically the location of the infrastructure from the rest of the building simply using built space will prove very difficult to cool, also without dedicated cooling and relying on building cooling you risk the ability of shortening the lifespan of these machines. While this is not always the case, I would assume if you are employing asic mining as well these machines will run at close to if not over capacity thus environmental variables much more sensitive. To also compensate and adjust for this humidity in florida, probably the second worse aspect of environmental concerns over water.

Lastly, building concurrency in line with multi-access routing and I am assuming not solo-mining you will of course need to take into consideration applying multiple link points again through various means of access to your upstream providers. Along with this I would also take the separate measures of applying for some space of your own from ARIN as to allow for portability between providers. Last think you want to deal with is a bunch of BGP flapping between providers because you are not the authority on the IP space, also please consider MPLS when deploying these lines.

Just a few devils advocate observations, looks like a fun project either way just dont sell yourself short on thinking this all out as it grows.
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January 05, 2014, 11:34:55 PM
 #43

So little devils advocate here, been involved in quite a handful of DC and higher end server environment build-outs so while do consider this an interesting ideas there are some ideas you need to cross.

First with this location how are you going to provide secure access to the environment, a full glass building is far from ideal from several reasons. One being ease of access from the outside which unfortunately allows for a lower classification on security. While you could offset that by building internal secure access areas you then are faced with the natural disaster scenario and what it can/cannot withstand. While Florida is not prone to acts of god, hurricanes and building classifications Im sure are more prominentS.

Second, building power and feeds to be classified as any sort of redundancy you need two physical lines of power from two different hard line runs from two separate power plants. Often times with larger buildings these are readily available but considering while this may start small you have to take into account the fact that even 30 min of downtime regarding power since these are in-production money producing machines is only tolerable to a certain extent.

Third, cooling requirements again this plays into the first part and why glass buildings are not usually used for any sort of high density server environment. Unless separating physically the location of the infrastructure from the rest of the building simply using built space will prove very difficult to cool, also without dedicated cooling and relying on building cooling you risk the ability of shortening the lifespan of these machines. While this is not always the case, I would assume if you are employing asic mining as well these machines will run at close to if not over capacity thus environmental variables much more sensitive. To also compensate and adjust for this humidity in florida, probably the second worse aspect of environmental concerns over water.

Lastly, building concurrency in line with multi-access routing and I am assuming not solo-mining you will of course need to take into consideration applying multiple link points again through various means of access to your upstream providers. Along with this I would also take the separate measures of applying for some space of your own from ARIN as to allow for portability between providers. Last think you want to deal with is a bunch of BGP flapping between providers because you are not the authority on the IP space, also please consider MPLS when deploying these lines.

Just a few devils advocate observations, looks like a fun project either way just dont sell yourself short on thinking this all out as it grows.

tl;dr :|
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January 06, 2014, 12:28:59 AM
 #44


tl;dr :|

So your not serious about this then I'm assuming, this post while "long" are serious factors to consider when venturing down this road...just attempting to pass on some vetted knowledge to you for free to help out..

Ill summarize, to prevent you from having to actually read it..

Building not suited for any high density Environment
Environmental concerns for cooling and humidity
Physical Access Security major concern
Power requirements for high density environment need to be factored in
Routing and Upstream Provider Considerations from a very high level

There ya go!
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January 06, 2014, 01:05:31 AM
 #45

Building not suited for any high density Environment
Environmental concerns for cooling and humidity
Physical Access Security major concern
Power requirements for high density environment need to be factored in
Routing and Upstream Provider Considerations from a very high level
1. High Density? Our equipment is not gonna be that large...
2. We will have Air Conditioning and we will control humidity.
3. We will have security systems installed (We do need to take care of the company like a bank).
4. Like estimating our energy consumption?
5. That I don't know...
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January 06, 2014, 03:15:47 AM
 #46

Building not suited for any high density Environment
Environmental concerns for cooling and humidity
Physical Access Security major concern
Power requirements for high density environment need to be factored in
Routing and Upstream Provider Considerations from a very high level
1. High Density? Our equipment is not gonna be that large...
2. We will have Air Conditioning and we will control humidity.
3. We will have security systems installed (We do need to take care of the company like a bank).
4. Like estimating our energy consumption?
5. That I don't know...

I will just make the suggestion here without even going into all the above, look into sub-leasing colo space and or at minimum a Class A facilities. Factoring Triple Net cost on a building that your hosting customer equipment in requires all the above regardless of how "dense" you may think it is. Otherwise you are just risking pissing off customers because when you relying on "building facility" air they decide to shut it off after hours , or during the winter times they crank up the heat and half your asic's are shutting down because of it.

Lets say you take over a whole floor, I would assume without knowing the local market you would be looking at ballparking it 20k a month just for lease space, not counting triple net. You will then have your buildout cost approx 250k-500k depending on how you negotiate the lease, and assuming the building is up for it also at min a 3 yr lease. So your capex upfront just on space is about 750k plus your buildout cost and or operating equipment, upstream providers, hardware etc etc. I would easily see this being a 2-3mm startup cost adjusted over a 3 yr period, thats on the cheap.

So focus on what your MVP model will be, your fastest to market to start getting customers and scale up from there to prove the model before you jump feet first into what seems to be a foreign market to you. If you go the colo sub-lease route you will save you infrastructure cost and cut your capex down to a pretty manageable MRC cost that you can factor what your customer acquisition cost will be in the long run.

Security systems installed into what, how does that change the fact that you will possibly have machines generating 10k+ dollars on them and there is a plate glass window at ladder height?

Also as far as energy consumption, re my too long post it will help you out with understanding the basics of a very minimal redundancy aspect when it comes to providing a hosting facility.

This can all be accomplished but your going from one aspect of generating bitcoins, to the aspect of customers relying on you who are paying for a service and you have to cover all basis contractually.

Feel free to ping me offline, ill put you in touch with a few resources if your serious about moving forward at least to steer you in the right direction so you dont sink a bunch of time and money into something.
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January 06, 2014, 07:57:27 PM
 #47


I will just make the suggestion here without even going into all the above, look into sub-leasing colo space and or at minimum a Class A facilities. Factoring Triple Net cost on a building that your hosting customer equipment in requires all the above regardless of how "dense" you may think it is. Otherwise you are just risking pissing off customers because when you relying on "building facility" air they decide to shut it off after hours , or during the winter times they crank up the heat and half your asic's are shutting down because of it.

Lets say you take over a whole floor, I would assume without knowing the local market you would be looking at ballparking it 20k a month just for lease space, not counting triple net. You will then have your buildout cost approx 250k-500k depending on how you negotiate the lease, and assuming the building is up for it also at min a 3 yr lease. So your capex upfront just on space is about 750k plus your buildout cost and or operating equipment, upstream providers, hardware etc etc. I would easily see this being a 2-3mm startup cost adjusted over a 3 yr period, thats on the cheap.

So focus on what your MVP model will be, your fastest to market to start getting customers and scale up from there to prove the model before you jump feet first into what seems to be a foreign market to you. If you go the colo sub-lease route you will save you infrastructure cost and cut your capex down to a pretty manageable MRC cost that you can factor what your customer acquisition cost will be in the long run.

Security systems installed into what, how does that change the fact that you will possibly have machines generating 10k+ dollars on them and there is a plate glass window at ladder height?

Also as far as energy consumption, re my too long post it will help you out with understanding the basics of a very minimal redundancy aspect when it comes to providing a hosting facility.

This can all be accomplished but your going from one aspect of generating bitcoins, to the aspect of customers relying on you who are paying for a service and you have to cover all basis contractually.

Feel free to ping me offline, ill put you in touch with a few resources if your serious about moving forward at least to steer you in the right direction so you dont sink a bunch of time and money into something.

You seem pretty much the informative type of guy...

Sure, you can help me get on the track (After all, this is in its drawing boards).
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January 07, 2014, 12:20:51 AM
 #48

Sorry for not posting in a while, but I was on vacation. Anyways, some guy on this page said that florida was a bad idea. Yes, I agree with that because by default there is hot weather, so air conditioning will cost more, and if the air conditioning fails you are F*cked. Now it may not be possible to move somewhere else, but if this were to be a huge company, move to antartica or alaska where the power is really cheap. Also, there is free cooling there and its pretty empty so there is less people to steal your mining equipment. That probably wouldn't be necessary right now when you are small, but if you turn into something like ghash.io, its necessary to move to a place like that. About my donations, unless I see progress there will be no donations whatsoever. Maybe the OP (does OP mean original poster??? Im a forum noob lol) is just some scammer looking for some free money then hes going to run away. Anyways, thats probably not true but I need to see real progress soon or theres no deal. Maybe you should buy a few rigs and mine in your basement or something and see how you like it, and if you do then try it. And lastly, if I donate I would maybe expect a return like a stock or something. For example if I donated maybe 100$ worth of cryptocoins, you could give me a percentage of your profits for a month or something.
Well, thats all I have to say. On a side note BTC and LTC webt up today, with LTC hitting 30$ and BTC hitting 1000$. Whoohoo.

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January 07, 2014, 08:57:39 PM
 #49

Sorry for not posting in a while, but I was on vacation. Anyways, some guy on this page said that florida was a bad idea. Yes, I agree with that because by default there is hot weather, so air conditioning will cost more, and if the air conditioning fails you are F*cked. Now it may not be possible to move somewhere else, but if this were to be a huge company, move to antartica or alaska where the power is really cheap. Also, there is free cooling there and its pretty empty so there is less people to steal your mining equipment. That probably wouldn't be necessary right now when you are small, but if you turn into something like ghash.io, its necessary to move to a place like that. About my donations, unless I see progress there will be no donations whatsoever. Maybe the OP (does OP mean original poster??? Im a forum noob lol) is just some scammer looking for some free money then hes going to run away. Anyways, thats probably not true but I need to see real progress soon or theres no deal. Maybe you should buy a few rigs and mine in your basement or something and see how you like it, and if you do then try it. And lastly, if I donate I would maybe expect a return like a stock or something. For example if I donated maybe 100$ worth of cryptocoins, you could give me a percentage of your profits for a month or something.
Well, thats all I have to say. On a side note BTC and LTC webt up today, with LTC hitting 30$ and BTC hitting 1000$. Whoohoo.
Antartica/Alaska? I can't just "move" to another place that easily, you know...

Also, if A/C fails, I can just try to override the computer fans at a more higher speed and quickly fix the A/C (My grandfather is an expert on Air Conditioning, so I can just call him and try to diagnose it to resolve the problem).

Also, progress? Just give me a method of contact just to keep you in touch of any updates to the project (Also, please tell me how often you want me to keep you up to date).
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January 08, 2014, 12:30:34 AM
 #50

Sorry for not posting in a while, but I was on vacation. Anyways, some guy on this page said that florida was a bad idea. Yes, I agree with that because by default there is hot weather, so air conditioning will cost more, and if the air conditioning fails you are F*cked. Now it may not be possible to move somewhere else, but if this were to be a huge company, move to antartica or alaska where the power is really cheap. Also, there is free cooling there and its pretty empty so there is less people to steal your mining equipment. That probably wouldn't be necessary right now when you are small, but if you turn into something like ghash.io, its necessary to move to a place like that. About my donations, unless I see progress there will be no donations whatsoever. Maybe the OP (does OP mean original poster??? Im a forum noob lol) is just some scammer looking for some free money then hes going to run away. Anyways, thats probably not true but I need to see real progress soon or theres no deal. Maybe you should buy a few rigs and mine in your basement or something and see how you like it, and if you do then try it. And lastly, if I donate I would maybe expect a return like a stock or something. For example if I donated maybe 100$ worth of cryptocoins, you could give me a percentage of your profits for a month or something.
Well, thats all I have to say. On a side note BTC and LTC webt up today, with LTC hitting 30$ and BTC hitting 1000$. Whoohoo.
Antartica/Alaska? I can't just "move" to another place that easily, you know...

Also, if A/C fails, I can just try to override the computer fans at a more higher speed and quickly fix the A/C (My grandfather is an expert on Air Conditioning, so I can just call him and try to diagnose it to resolve the problem).

Also, progress? Just give me a method of contact just to keep you in touch of any updates to the project (Also, please tell me how often you want me to keep you up to date).
Hey,
I guess I wasn't really thinking about when you said this, and I agree its extremely hard to move, but if you get shown great interest into this project, and if you get tons of customers and your business goes well, you probably will need to relocate. Thats only if you get really bix like ghash.io or something like that. About the AC, yes you can override it, but at the 40 or higher degree weather in Florida, its a bit hot for the graphics cards, and running the fans at full 100% speed isn't really good for the fans and the fans will break down a lot sooner, and when the fan breaks the card will overhead without you knowing and will probably cause further damage.
For keeping me up to date and other chatting methods please use my skype: williamj2543 OR you can use my email: williamj2543@gmail.com. Email is probably preferred for updates, but I would like to have your skype for any questions that I can get quick answers for.
Thanks!

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January 08, 2014, 07:22:33 PM
 #51

Hey,
I guess I wasn't really thinking about when you said this, and I agree its extremely hard to move, but if you get shown great interest into this project, and if you get tons of customers and your business goes well, you probably will need to relocate. Thats only if you get really bix like ghash.io or something like that. About the AC, yes you can override it, but at the 40 or higher degree weather in Florida, its a bit hot for the graphics cards, and running the fans at full 100% speed isn't really good for the fans and the fans will break down a lot sooner, and when the fan breaks the card will overhead without you knowing and will probably cause further damage.
For keeping me up to date and other chatting methods please use my skype: williamj2543 OR you can use my email: williamj2543@gmail.com. Email is probably preferred for updates, but I would like to have your skype for any questions that I can get quick answers for.
Thanks!

No problem.
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January 08, 2014, 07:48:56 PM
Last edit: January 08, 2014, 08:14:06 PM by Pikachu4170
 #52

Also, UPDATE:

I am at a Burger King and when I passed the building I was planning for this project I saw a few trucks and a guy trying to check out the place (Noticed it was someone mowing the lawn  Kiss). (No photo to prove it, though)

Due to this, I may have to scratch off the building part of the project and try to find another one (Probably around Massachusetts to make it near the MIT, the institution I am planning to go to).

Not right now though as it is still not leased yet (I can still see the signs).

Oh, I also forgot to tell this all along:
The project will not be complete until maybe 4-5 years (Reality: I'm in High school planning to go to the MIT; I have a lot of passion in mathematics and technology, BTW), but the draft will still be in progress time to time.

I'm not sure if Bitcoins can still be mined half a decade later. I think ~75% of the coins could have been mined at that time...
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January 08, 2014, 10:15:31 PM
 #53

Hey,
Litecoin mining and bitcoin mining profitability will go down, and will be unprofitable probably in 2-3 years. I thought you were going to do this soon, so if you cant say you are doing this within the next year, I'm probably out. Who knows where mining will be like in 4-5 years, and I wouldn't want to invest in this. I'd still be happy to support this with info or suggestions, and am still really interested, but again if you want this to be successful you NEED to start right now or within a few months. Remember, less than a month litecoin mining at 720kh/s could make 15$ a day, now thats down to about 5-6$.

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January 08, 2014, 10:23:45 PM
 #54

Hey,
Litecoin mining and bitcoin mining profitability will go down, and will be unprofitable probably in 2-3 years. I thought you were going to do this soon, so if you cant say you are doing this within the next year, I'm probably out. Who knows where mining will be like in 4-5 years, and I wouldn't want to invest in this. I'd still be happy to support this with info or suggestions, and am still really interested, but again if you want this to be successful you NEED to start right now or within a few months. Remember, less than a month litecoin mining at 720kh/s could make 15$ a day, now thats down to about 5-6$.

I'm still too young...

If I really need to do this right away, I need someone older than me to handle it for me...
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January 13, 2014, 12:44:31 AM
 #55

*Bump*
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January 13, 2014, 12:48:30 PM
 #56

Quote
CryptoMiners is a concept I have in mind of attempting to rent a business building sitting next to my state road that has been unused for years without and use it as a mining facility.

Okay, I assume that if you want to rent a whole building, or even a whole floor, it's going to be a really huge enterprise...

Quote
Each floor should have 4 Raspberry Pis (Model B) loaded up with Raspbian (Debian port for Raspberry Pi) each containing 8 ASIC miners. All 4 Pis will be monitored on a Debian 8 (jessie) server.

Oh wait, nevermind.

Also:
Quote
Oh, I also forgot to tell this all along:
The project will not be complete until maybe 4-5 years (Reality: I'm in High school planning to go to the MIT; I have a lot of passion in mathematics and technology, BTW), but the draft will still be in progress time to time.

Well, that is quite an ommision. You want to mine DOGE in 4 years from now. Good luck with that.
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January 13, 2014, 08:01:59 PM
 #57

Quote
CryptoMiners is a concept I have in mind of attempting to rent a business building sitting next to my state road that has been unused for years without and use it as a mining facility.

Okay, I assume that if you want to rent a whole building, or even a whole floor, it's going to be a really huge enterprise...

Quote
Each floor should have 4 Raspberry Pis (Model B) loaded up with Raspbian (Debian port for Raspberry Pi) each containing 8 ASIC miners. All 4 Pis will be monitored on a Debian 8 (jessie) server.

Oh wait, nevermind.

Also:
Quote
Oh, I also forgot to tell this all along:
The project will not be complete until maybe 4-5 years (Reality: I'm in High school planning to go to the MIT; I have a lot of passion in mathematics and technology, BTW), but the draft will still be in progress time to time.

Well, that is quite an ommision. You want to mine DOGE in 4 years from now. Good luck with that.

Firstly, we have to start out small (2nd floor) if other clients want to lease out the whole building. If no one leased the rest, we will slowly lease each floor.

Second, shouldn't The Bitcoin Foundation create more unmined Bitcoins? No mining means that Bitcoins will be like Trading Cards (And Bitcoin aren't even classified as trading cards). There should be more Bitcoins out there in the next few years to still call Bitcoin a currency of the future.
rarkenin
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January 13, 2014, 10:14:03 PM
 #58


Second, shouldn't The Bitcoin Foundation create more unmined Bitcoins? No mining means that Bitcoins will be like Trading Cards (And Bitcoin aren't even classified as trading cards). There should be more Bitcoins out there in the next few years to still call Bitcoin a currency of the future.

They don't have the power to. It's not centralized around them. Only miner consensus would result in that.
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January 15, 2014, 03:41:27 AM
 #59

They don't have the power to. It's not centralized around them. Only miner consensus would result in that.

So, mining is still possible in the future?

(And yes, I remembered that Bitcoin is controlled by everyone)
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January 15, 2014, 11:15:41 AM
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It is possible but becomes harder and less profitable for almost all coins as time goes on.
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