8th Alt coin thread. Or what to do now that asics are all over the place.

[citronick]

Monero's next fork is Sept 16... getting ready for that one.

Have you got a link? I'm reading it's gonna be more like mid-October...

I saw the 16 Sept date in SMOS thread.

However, best if you follow fluffypony's Twitter for best information.

https://twitter.com/fluffypony?lang=en

Tytanick is also getting SMOS ready for the fork and he has begun work as per his posts.

Will miss Claymore's miner since I have been enjoying his miner for free (he has waived all fees for this miner) - hope he will update the support for coming fork.


@Marvell2 -- for progpow power consumption, my test rig shows power nearly like ETH mining when mining to your pool. I will give mining a miss this time due to power bill, and will buy the coins off Bitfinex and transfer them to wallet for staking later.

[1714060550]

1714060550

[1714060550]

1714060550

[1714060550]

1714060550

[1714060550]

1714060550

[rs1x]

@Phil -  Are you liking Windows or SMOS better, for BCI?

[philipma1957]

@Phil -  Are you liking Windows or SMOS better, for BCI?

to early to tell


http://solo-bci.altpool.pro/workers/iG5mxRMZErtXwReBaEvpYam7PQStwgK5hR



1-4 are windows

s1 is smos


I burned 3 new smos sticks  to hook up my 3 other smos rigs.

network is growing a lot we are now at 45gh  we were at 31gh on sat

45gh is about 2500 x 1080ti

say 2500 x 18m/h hash =    45gh

my 160mh is now 45000/160 =   281 to 1  or a block
every 2 days


https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-interest/


price dropped a bit.

I have an issue since I can not use bitfinex


 https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-interest/#markets


I need to check on

Hitbtc https://hitbtc.com/

exrates

trade satoshi

[dragonmike]

im sure a lot of blockchains will be internal use only, used to keep track of the various company assets.

projects still can have internal competition and departmental/regional goals. and if some project just wanted private or internal participants, those participants would want a way to prove the percentage of work they contribute, no? possibly it could just be a list of blocks its found vs other participants.. but issued tokens would be a way too. those tokens could be valuable somehow, such as determining participation levels, bonus amounts, allocation of company funds, etc. the tokens and use thereof would be auditable proof on the owning departments or branches participation and used to vote on company agendas.

so, not a general cryptocurrency per se as it wont mean anything outside of that company, but cryptosomething at least. even if only usable within that company.

but, that would expend an awful lot of energy depending on what the chain uses to support it. ideally it could use an algorithm that would generate results beyond simply proof or work, something thats part simulation or something thats otherwise beneficial to the company.. tangible results that could be used for company research or simulations maybe. since its internal they should be able to audit the miners and algo etc to ensure none are cheating.

maybe even get to the point employees could use home equipment to mine the companies blockchain for compensation. but then its pretty much cryptocurrency again heh.

Here's the thing.. internal blockchains can/could be manipulated. With a few bad actors could could easily rewrite/forge some stuff.

The incentive of a public blockchain is the BlockReward and the enconomic value that it brings when solving it. Therefore all actors must act in good faith otherwise they lose their value.

oh i agree. in some sort of internal blockchain a company should use one or more (external?) central authority to monitor it and the contributing hardware. this might result in less errors (or straight up lying) in whatever inventory the blockchain represents, at least at the department level. but ultimately it just shifts the target for dishonesty and corruption over to the central controlling authority rather than the rank and file. ie departments might have a hard time faking product reports.

im not saying private blockchains would work well in general, but possibly just give (even if only slightly?) better and inventory/product/asset control. or at least shift the potential for theft higher up the company food chain.

it may make it harder for the rank and file folks to be dishonest, and management to have a more accurate view of the company. now they only have to trust the central authority that monitors it all. but who watches the watchers heh.

all in all its just private blockchain vs database. they are administered differently, the corruption risks are shifted around a bit.

perhaps companies with widely separated facilities may have fun trying this out so they can keep an eye on each other better. good luck.

NB: the argument I was putting forward is not the private vs public blockchains... but rather, what would be the utility of block rewards (and giving any sort of value to crypto coins or tokens) alltogether? Permissioned blockchains need not reward anyone. Public blockchains might still to some extent, but I think the future will relegate them to open-source dev and/or decentralization evangelists. I just cannot see real-world use of blockchain "rewarding" users/miners for very much longer as the technology gets privatized.

EDIT: as a miner and small time investor, of course, I hope I'm wrong. But crypto has so far failed in acting as a worthy alternative for fiat currency (despite what Buterin & friends still think it should be - good luck with that - ETH will lose massive hashpower in the near future - have fun managing your cryptokitty-transactions).

[Marvell2]

im sure a lot of blockchains will be internal use only, used to keep track of the various company assets.

projects still can have internal competition and departmental/regional goals. and if some project just wanted private or internal participants, those participants would want a way to prove the percentage of work they contribute, no? possibly it could just be a list of blocks its found vs other participants.. but issued tokens would be a way too. those tokens could be valuable somehow, such as determining participation levels, bonus amounts, allocation of company funds, etc. the tokens and use thereof would be auditable proof on the owning departments or branches participation and used to vote on company agendas.

so, not a general cryptocurrency per se as it wont mean anything outside of that company, but cryptosomething at least. even if only usable within that company.

but, that would expend an awful lot of energy depending on what the chain uses to support it. ideally it could use an algorithm that would generate results beyond simply proof or work, something thats part simulation or something thats otherwise beneficial to the company.. tangible results that could be used for company research or simulations maybe. since its internal they should be able to audit the miners and algo etc to ensure none are cheating.

maybe even get to the point employees could use home equipment to mine the companies blockchain for compensation. but then its pretty much cryptocurrency again heh.

Here's the thing.. internal blockchains can/could be manipulated. With a few bad actors could could easily rewrite/forge some stuff.

The incentive of a public blockchain is the BlockReward and the enconomic value that it brings when solving it. Therefore all actors must act in good faith otherwise they lose their value.

oh i agree. in some sort of internal blockchain a company should use one or more (external?) central authority to monitor it and the contributing hardware. this might result in less errors (or straight up lying) in whatever inventory the blockchain represents, at least at the department level. but ultimately it just shifts the target for dishonesty and corruption over to the central controlling authority rather than the rank and file. ie departments might have a hard time faking product reports.

im not saying private blockchains would work well in general, but possibly just give (even if only slightly?) better and inventory/product/asset control. or at least shift the potential for theft higher up the company food chain.

it may make it harder for the rank and file folks to be dishonest, and management to have a more accurate view of the company. now they only have to trust the central authority that monitors it all. but who watches the watchers heh.

all in all its just private blockchain vs database. they are administered differently, the corruption risks are shifted around a bit.

perhaps companies with widely separated facilities may have fun trying this out so they can keep an eye on each other better. good luck.

NB: the argument I was putting forward is not the private vs public blockchains... but rather, what would be the utility of block rewards (and giving any sort of value to crypto coins or tokens) alltogether? Permissioned blockchains need not reward anyone. Public blockchains might still to some extent, but I think the future will relegate them to open-source dev and/or decentralization evangelists. I just cannot see real-world use of blockchain "rewarding" users/miners for very much longer as the technology gets privatized.

EDIT: as a miner and small time investor, of course, I hope I'm wrong. But crypto has so far failed in acting as a worthy alternative for fiat currency (despite what Buterin & friends still think it should be - good luck with that - ETH will lose massive hashpower in the near future - have fun managing your cryptokitty-transactions).

Crypto has not failed as much as its being blocked by the traditional entities that control this space alongside with the banksters and counties that need to control wealth movement like they have for 100s of years.

It seems like thier plan is to attempt to control it by slowing adoption so they can take it for themselves

[philipma1957]

im sure a lot of blockchains will be internal use only, used to keep track of the various company assets.

projects still can have internal competition and departmental/regional goals. and if some project just wanted private or internal participants, those participants would want a way to prove the percentage of work they contribute, no? possibly it could just be a list of blocks its found vs other participants.. but issued tokens would be a way too. those tokens could be valuable somehow, such as determining participation levels, bonus amounts, allocation of company funds, etc. the tokens and use thereof would be auditable proof on the owning departments or branches participation and used to vote on company agendas.

so, not a general cryptocurrency per se as it wont mean anything outside of that company, but cryptosomething at least. even if only usable within that company.

but, that would expend an awful lot of energy depending on what the chain uses to support it. ideally it could use an algorithm that would generate results beyond simply proof or work, something thats part simulation or something thats otherwise beneficial to the company.. tangible results that could be used for company research or simulations maybe. since its internal they should be able to audit the miners and algo etc to ensure none are cheating.

maybe even get to the point employees could use home equipment to mine the companies blockchain for compensation. but then its pretty much cryptocurrency again heh.

Here's the thing.. internal blockchains can/could be manipulated. With a few bad actors could could easily rewrite/forge some stuff.

The incentive of a public blockchain is the BlockReward and the enconomic value that it brings when solving it. Therefore all actors must act in good faith otherwise they lose their value.

oh i agree. in some sort of internal blockchain a company should use one or more (external?) central authority to monitor it and the contributing hardware. this might result in less errors (or straight up lying) in whatever inventory the blockchain represents, at least at the department level. but ultimately it just shifts the target for dishonesty and corruption over to the central controlling authority rather than the rank and file. ie departments might have a hard time faking product reports.

im not saying private blockchains would work well in general, but possibly just give (even if only slightly?) better and inventory/product/asset control. or at least shift the potential for theft higher up the company food chain.

it may make it harder for the rank and file folks to be dishonest, and management to have a more accurate view of the company. now they only have to trust the central authority that monitors it all. but who watches the watchers heh.

all in all its just private blockchain vs database. they are administered differently, the corruption risks are shifted around a bit.

perhaps companies with widely separated facilities may have fun trying this out so they can keep an eye on each other better. good luck.

NB: the argument I was putting forward is not the private vs public blockchains... but rather, what would be the utility of block rewards (and giving any sort of value to crypto coins or tokens) alltogether? Permissioned blockchains need not reward anyone. Public blockchains might still to some extent, but I think the future will relegate them to open-source dev and/or decentralization evangelists. I just cannot see real-world use of blockchain "rewarding" users/miners for very much longer as the technology gets privatized.

EDIT: as a miner and small time investor, of course, I hope I'm wrong. But crypto has so far failed in acting as a worthy alternative for fiat currency (despite what Buterin & friends still think it should be - good luck with that - ETH will lose massive hashpower in the near future - have fun managing your cryptokitty-transactions).

Crypto has not failed as much as its being blocked by the traditional entities that control this space alongside with the banksters and counties that need to control wealth movement like they have for 100s of years.

It seems like thier plan is to attempt to control it by slowing adoption so they can take it for themselves

Asic builders attacking and wiping out gpu mining set back adoption big time.

but developers are greatly at fault for not having forks ready and simply selling out to asic builders.

Here on this site most of us are not 1 card to 2 card hobby miners but the fact is I built 20 rigs for miner/gamers last year

They got a
2 card 1080ti rig
 with an intel 7700 cpu
 16 gb ram
 plat 850 watt psu
and 1tb ssd

 everyone of them  has fully paid those rigs off Since I was moving them out in May June July of last year.

this was a nice side business for me.  It also was leading to widespread adoption and was snuffed by developers selling out and asics killing gpu mining.

Maybe xmr and BTC and BCI can rally gpu mining  back  we will see how it unfolds.

[Marvell2]

Big facts , we are like princess Leia : Xmr , Bci , youre are only hope 😂😂

Seriously you’re right phill, But the asics holders are getting purged atm since thier greed knows no bounds.

they built huge farms of E3 and z9s along with selling thr machines like candy , I guess they have never heard of
market saturation and difficulty?  Whst did they think they could build unlimited asics and the networks would absorb it all?

they not only killed thier resale market but their own farms who does that

and even though the have minimal power costs , even they feel the losses at these low crypto prices , and most of them rent thier property so they have a additional cost we as home miners don’t face.

the best thing honestly that could happen is happening now , bitmain over produces, has to start dumping held crypto at a loss to improve thier balance sheet , eth Icos dumping, eth reduces issuance plans into a long term bear market turning lots of asics into bricks etc.

yeah alot of miners are struggling too but all this has lead to new innovation and a proper anti centralization sentiment that those of us like  Voskcoin and people in the know have been pushing for years.

now its all coming to fruition

[philipma1957]

@ Marvell2 wasn't Princess Lela asking ObWanKeNoBe for the help.

Yeah I spelled it wrong but it has been more then 40 years since I watched the movie.

[Marvell2]

@ Marvell2 wasn't Princess Lela asking ObWanKeNoBe for the help.

Yeah I spelled it wrong but it has been more then 40 years since I watched the movie.

Yeah she was , i just substituted obi wan for, XMR,BCI/progpow

[philipma1957]

@ Marvell2 wasn't Princess Lela asking ObWanKeNoBe for the help.

Yeah I spelled it wrong but it has been more then 40 years since I watched the movie.

Yeah she was , i just substituted obi wan for, XMR,BCI/progpow

duh missed it  nice one.

[dragonmike]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

...sorry I had to

[Marvell2]

@ Marvell2 wasn't Princess Lela asking ObWanKeNoBe for the help.

Yeah I spelled it wrong but it has been more then 40 years since I watched the movie.

Yeah she was , i just substituted obi wan for, XMR,BCI/progpow

duh missed it  nice one.

lol thx

[sNaKeyz0r91]

need more people on our bci pool

http://67.40.164.173:8080/stats

I would like to join your pool.
A little more details please? I have 6 x 1080ti, I should choose diff 8 or 60?
Also, I would like to mine directly to the exchange so I can sold the coins, would that be ok with your pool (how often are payouts made?)

Thanks

[Marvell2]

need more people on our bci pool

http://67.40.164.173:8080/stats

I would like to join your pool.
A little more details please? I have 6 x 1080ti, I should choose diff 8 or 60?
Also, I would like to mine directly to the exchange so I can sold the coins, would that be ok with your pool (how often are payouts made?)

Thanks

all the info is in the discord link, lets not hijak this thread its not about pools

[nsummy]

im sure a lot of blockchains will be internal use only, used to keep track of the various company assets.
-snip-

Here's the thing.. internal blockchains can/could be manipulated. With a few bad actors could could easily rewrite/forge some stuff.

The incentive of a public blockchain is the BlockReward and the enconomic value that it brings when solving it. Therefore all actors must act in good faith otherwise they lose their value.

Yeah i agree, internal private blockchains are counter productive to what blockchain is all about. If you have a private internal blockchain, then whats it's difference from having an centralized database server? A custom server can be configured pretty well to match or even surpass blockchain features.

Like philip said, there will always be a place for public blockchains and mining incentives (not for GPU miners).

Saying private blockchains are counter productive is simply a false statement.  There is a giant difference in having a centralized server and a decentralized ledger.  One can be tampered with, the other cannot.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/06/technology/ibm-blockchain-gamble/index.html

[nsummy]

I think this is fake, or hoping it is.  I mean even if he/she bought at a the all-time high. it hasn't even been a year.  Yes its down 80%, but obviously it will recover.

Here's a curve ball.
What if blockchain technology did not need cryptocurrency?

If the next years show blockchain tech get adopted more and more in permissioned environments, there is no need to reward the private actors/miners with currency.

The great dream of decentralisation and distributed ledger for the masses could be falling flat on its face. Permission-less blockchains could become a thing of the past and/or be relegated to github, i.e. open-source development.

...and I would let you figure out what that would mean for 99% of altcoin prices.

im sure a lot of blockchains will be internal use only, used to keep track of the various company assets.

projects still can have internal competition and departmental/regional goals. and if some project just wanted private or internal participants, those participants would want a way to prove the percentage of work they contribute, no? possibly it could just be a list of blocks its found vs other participants.. but issued tokens would be a way too. those tokens could be valuable somehow, such as determining participation levels, bonus amounts, allocation of company funds, etc. the tokens and use thereof would be auditable proof on the owning departments or branches participation and used to vote on company agendas.

so, not a general cryptocurrency per se as it wont mean anything outside of that company, but cryptosomething at least. even if only usable within that company.

but, that would expend an awful lot of energy depending on what the chain uses to support it. ideally it could use an algorithm that would generate results beyond simply proof or work, something thats part simulation or something thats otherwise beneficial to the company.. tangible results that could be used for company research or simulations maybe. since its internal they should be able to audit the miners and algo etc to ensure none are cheating.

maybe even get to the point employees could use home equipment to mine the companies blockchain for compensation. but then its pretty much cryptocurrency again heh.

Any internal mainnet blockchain would not be mined by outside people and more than likely wouldn't even be PoW.  It would just a bunch of internal nodes, basically like Ripple.  There are other consensus methods coming out that are more appropriate for internal blockchains:  https://sawtooth.hyperledger.org/docs/core/releases/1.0/architecture/poet.html

[nsummy]

im sure a lot of blockchains will be internal use only, used to keep track of the various company assets.

projects still can have internal competition and departmental/regional goals. and if some project just wanted private or internal participants, those participants would want a way to prove the percentage of work they contribute, no? possibly it could just be a list of blocks its found vs other participants.. but issued tokens would be a way too. those tokens could be valuable somehow, such as determining participation levels, bonus amounts, allocation of company funds, etc. the tokens and use thereof would be auditable proof on the owning departments or branches participation and used to vote on company agendas.

so, not a general cryptocurrency per se as it wont mean anything outside of that company, but cryptosomething at least. even if only usable within that company.

but, that would expend an awful lot of energy depending on what the chain uses to support it. ideally it could use an algorithm that would generate results beyond simply proof or work, something thats part simulation or something thats otherwise beneficial to the company.. tangible results that could be used for company research or simulations maybe. since its internal they should be able to audit the miners and algo etc to ensure none are cheating.

maybe even get to the point employees could use home equipment to mine the companies blockchain for compensation. but then its pretty much cryptocurrency again heh.

Here's the thing.. internal blockchains can/could be manipulated. With a few bad actors could could easily rewrite/forge some stuff.

The incentive of a public blockchain is the BlockReward and the enconomic value that it brings when solving it. Therefore all actors must act in good faith otherwise they lose their value.

oh i agree. in some sort of internal blockchain a company should use one or more (external?) central authority to monitor it and the contributing hardware. this might result in less errors (or straight up lying) in whatever inventory the blockchain represents, at least at the department level. but ultimately it just shifts the target for dishonesty and corruption over to the central controlling authority rather than the rank and file. ie departments might have a hard time faking product reports.

im not saying private blockchains would work well in general, but possibly just give (even if only slightly?) better and inventory/product/asset control. or at least shift the potential for theft higher up the company food chain.

it may make it harder for the rank and file folks to be dishonest, and management to have a more accurate view of the company. now they only have to trust the central authority that monitors it all. but who watches the watchers heh.

all in all its just private blockchain vs database. they are administered differently, the corruption risks are shifted around a bit.

perhaps companies with widely separated facilities may have fun trying this out so they can keep an eye on each other better. good luck.

NB: the argument I was putting forward is not the private vs public blockchains... but rather, what would be the utility of block rewards (and giving any sort of value to crypto coins or tokens) alltogether? Permissioned blockchains need not reward anyone. Public blockchains might still to some extent, but I think the future will relegate them to open-source dev and/or decentralization evangelists. I just cannot see real-world use of blockchain "rewarding" users/miners for very much longer as the technology gets privatized.

EDIT: as a miner and small time investor, of course, I hope I'm wrong. But crypto has so far failed in acting as a worthy alternative for fiat currency (despite what Buterin & friends still think it should be - good luck with that - ETH will lose massive hashpower in the near future - have fun managing your cryptokitty-transactions).

Crypto has not failed as much as its being blocked by the traditional entities that control this space alongside with the banksters and counties that need to control wealth movement like they have for 100s of years.

It seems like thier plan is to attempt to control it by slowing adoption so they can take it for themselves

Asic builders attacking and wiping out gpu mining set back adoption big time.

but developers are greatly at fault for not having forks ready and simply selling out to asic builders.

Here on this site most of us are not 1 card to 2 card hobby miners but the fact is I built 20 rigs for miner/gamers last year

They got a
2 card 1080ti rig
 with an intel 7700 cpu
 16 gb ram
 plat 850 watt psu
and 1tb ssd

 everyone of them  has fully paid those rigs off Since I was moving them out in May June July of last year.

this was a nice side business for me.  It also was leading to widespread adoption and was snuffed by developers selling out and asics killing gpu mining.

Maybe xmr and BTC and BCI can rally gpu mining  back  we will see how it unfolds.

Maybe wiping out gpu mining profits, but adoption?  I don't think so.  If/when crypto truly hits mainstream adaption, the users will have a cursory idea of how it works and probably won't even understand mining. Stability, usefulness, and ease of use is what will drive adoption.  Right now buying crypto is extremely complicated, hard to spend, and there is not much to spend it on.  Its going to have to be just as easy as venmo and debit cards.  And sadly I think it will require a few centralized 3rd parties to process transactions (like visa, mc, ac) for it to really take off.

I think you will find that most developers are not money people.  They are trying to create something for long term prospects while not really caring about short term prices.  Monero is probably the only coin that I can say actively works on thwarting ASICs  AND has a mature, stable, project.  These other coins that are using resources on forking algos don't even have a fully developed product.

[philipma1957]

...

Maybe wiping out gpu mining profits, but adoption?  I don't think so.  If/when crypto truly hits mainstream adaption, the users will have a cursory idea of how it works and probably won't even understand mining. Stability, usefulness, and ease of use is what will drive adoption.  Right now buying crypto is extremely complicated, hard to spend, and there is not much to spend it on.  Its going to have to be just as easy as venmo and debit cards.  And sadly I think it will require a few centralized 3rd parties to process transactions (like visa, mc, ac) for it to really take off.

I think you will find that most developers are not money people.  They are trying to create something for long term prospects while not really caring about short term prices.  Monero is probably the only coin that I can say actively works on thwarting ASICs  AND has a mature, stable, project.  These other coins that are using resources on forking algos don't even have a fully developed product.

There are a lot of gpus out there

rx550
rx560
rx570
rx580

rx460
rx470
rx480

vega 56
vega 64

gtx 1050
gtx 1050ti
gtx 1060
gtx 1070
gtx 1070ti
gtx 1080
gtx 1080ti

everyone of the above  if purchased sept 1 2017  made a profit to roi fully by feb 1 2018   every fucking one.

now granted many people fucked up  and blew or lost the profit but  check the facts out  I am correct.

find the sept 1 2017 price for those cards and do the math.   that = millions of cards and millions of adapters   and asic builders killed that off.

basically asic builders got so fucking hungry they ate their legs and crippled the industry by doing it.

So instead of a gpu kid  happy to get a free gaming rig and a few bucks to buy more games  you get a gaming kid that hates mining won't use crypto  .

World wide   x 3,000,000  maybe 5,000,000 turned off by the move.

Me I am flexible I have all gear cpu gpu fpga asics.

 But I am a miner not a gaming kid.
 I have worked with pc's before apple existed and back as far as 1974.
I can say they were mainframe back then not really pc's.


I always saw this as a power game not a gear game.

the reality is it
 see-saws from
 power king to
gear king to
 power king

and on  an on.  Dealing the blow to gpu hobby and small miners kills adaption big time.

[igotek]

I have been mining for two years. Slow start with 6 AMD GPUs and Baikal mini miner.
I bought many GPUs in last 10 months.
I have 402 GPUs mixed AMD -- NVIDIA and some Baikal ASICs.
the profit ? i have earned the half of the investment. I need to earn around 50K USD to reach ROI.

[MagicSmoker]

Maybe wiping out gpu mining profits, but adoption?  I don't think so....

...
basically asic builders got so fucking hungry they ate their legs and crippled the industry by doing it.

So instead of a gpu kid  happy to get a free gaming rig and a few bucks to buy more games  you get a gaming kid that hates mining won't use crypto  .
...

I never thought of this issue in quite this way, but I have to say you make a compelling case here (good enough for 1 of my last 2 sMerits).

I would add that the GPU shortage earlier this year also had the same unintended consequence of alienating many who would naturally be interested in crypto.

One ray of sunshine: the bursting of the dotcom bubble didn't kill the internet.