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Author Topic: BetcoinPoker.com Betcoin.ag-Big Tourneys-BONUS-Freerolls, Ring Games, Real Poker  (Read 367528 times)
Financisto
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February 04, 2016, 05:25:23 AM
Last edit: February 04, 2016, 05:40:30 AM by Financisto
 #3981

^^ Pump: P2P Lending

Dump: Banks...

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February 04, 2016, 08:05:28 AM
 #3982

I'd suggest not to lend as well: beside putting you at risk of being scammed this (bad in my opinion) habit attracts potential scammers to the site when thay see this opportunity going on.

On a side note: if a players hasn't been able to grow a proper bankroll to play with, then I don't see a good opportunity of investiment in him,

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February 04, 2016, 02:49:45 PM
 #3983

...
That would be a problem if a scammer "poker player" falsely alleges someone else took his chips inappropriately. He asks BetcoinPoker for a chargeback and the lender (who sent some coins and held the chips as collateral) gets scammed...
...

I don't get it. Betcoin allow P2P transfers but they won't act as debt-collector, who you lend to/borrow from and whether they pay you back is entirely your problem and you take the risk.

Also why would anyone use chips as collateral since chips are essentially bitcoins (you can just withdraw them)?

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February 04, 2016, 07:53:07 PM
 #3984

...
That would be a problem if a scammer "poker player" falsely alleges someone else took his chips inappropriately. He asks BetcoinPoker for a chargeback and the lender (who sent some coins and held the chips as collateral) gets scammed...
...

I don't get it. Betcoin allow P2P transfers but they won't act as debt-collector, who you lend to/borrow from and whether they pay you back is entirely your problem and you take the risk.

Also why would anyone use chips as collateral since chips are essentially bitcoins (you can just withdraw them)?


And what are they going to do? In The real world do casinos bar entrance, suspend, ban, or hold the funds of a player who is in debt to another player at the casino?

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February 04, 2016, 08:49:10 PM
 #3985

...
That would be a problem if a scammer "poker player" falsely alleges someone else took his chips inappropriately. He asks BetcoinPoker for a chargeback and the lender (who sent some coins and held the chips as collateral) gets scammed...
...

I don't get it. Betcoin allow P2P transfers but they won't act as debt-collector, who you lend to/borrow from and whether they pay you back is entirely your problem and you take the risk.

Also why would anyone use chips as collateral since chips are essentially bitcoins (you can just withdraw them)?


And what are they going to do? In The real world do casinos bar entrance, suspend, ban, or hold the funds of a player who is in debt to another player at the casino?

No.

But if they know someone is trying to scam other players they get banned for sure.

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February 06, 2016, 05:52:02 PM
 #3986

...
That would be a problem if a scammer "poker player" falsely alleges someone else took his chips inappropriately. He asks BetcoinPoker for a chargeback and the lender (who sent some coins and held the chips as collateral) gets scammed...
...

I don't get it. Betcoin allow P2P transfers but they won't act as debt-collector, who you lend to/borrow from and whether they pay you back is entirely your problem and you take the risk.

Also why would anyone use chips as collateral since chips are essentially bitcoins (you can just withdraw them)?


And what are they going to do? In The real world do casinos bar entrance, suspend, ban, or hold the funds of a player who is in debt to another player at the casino?

No.

But if they know someone is trying to scam other players they get banned for sure.

You really think that Betcoin is going to ban someone for trying to scam other players? Did that  guy worldpeace get banned for DDOS you out of games and tournament....or did they just want him to apologize to you???
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February 06, 2016, 06:25:01 PM
 #3987

...
That would be a problem if a scammer "poker player" falsely alleges someone else took his chips inappropriately. He asks BetcoinPoker for a chargeback and the lender (who sent some coins and held the chips as collateral) gets scammed...
...

I don't get it. Betcoin allow P2P transfers but they won't act as debt-collector, who you lend to/borrow from and whether they pay you back is entirely your problem and you take the risk.

Also why would anyone use chips as collateral since chips are essentially bitcoins (you can just withdraw them)?


And what are they going to do? In The real world do casinos bar entrance, suspend, ban, or hold the funds of a player who is in debt to another player at the casino?

No.

But if they know someone is trying to scam other players they get banned for sure.

Hmm... Not sure about that.

Yeah it's always better to keep a healthy community so they MIGHT do so, but on the other hand that's your problem if you get scammed.

They're not going to get rid of players actually bringing them money just because you were too naïve to let them rob you Grin

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February 06, 2016, 08:44:15 PM
 #3988

...
That would be a problem if a scammer "poker player" falsely alleges someone else took his chips inappropriately. He asks BetcoinPoker for a chargeback and the lender (who sent some coins and held the chips as collateral) gets scammed...
...

I don't get it. Betcoin allow P2P transfers but they won't act as debt-collector, who you lend to/borrow from and whether they pay you back is entirely your problem and you take the risk.

Also why would anyone use chips as collateral since chips are essentially bitcoins (you can just withdraw them)?


And what are they going to do? In The real world do casinos bar entrance, suspend, ban, or hold the funds of a player who is in debt to another player at the casino?

No.

But if they know someone is trying to scam other players they get banned for sure.

You really think that Betcoin is going to ban someone for trying to scam other players? Did that  guy worldpeace get banned for DDOS you out of games and tournament....or did they just want him to apologize to you???

I was talking about live casinos (Vegas, AC etc..) They will absolutely 86 anyone who they think is there with intent to scam their players.

Only person Banned from betcoin is me afaik, and I have never scammed/cheated anyone.

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February 08, 2016, 10:31:51 PM
 #3989

...
That would be a problem if a scammer "poker player" falsely alleges someone else took his chips inappropriately. He asks BetcoinPoker for a chargeback and the lender (who sent some coins and held the chips as collateral) gets scammed...
...

I don't get it. Betcoin allow P2P transfers but they won't act as debt-collector, who you lend to/borrow from and whether they pay you back is entirely your problem and you take the risk.

Also why would anyone use chips as collateral since chips are essentially bitcoins (you can just withdraw them)?


And what are they going to do? In The real world do casinos bar entrance, suspend, ban, or hold the funds of a player who is in debt to another player at the casino?

Great commentary here everyone.  Our advice is "Don't Lend, Don't Borrow." 

If you choose to lend and or borrow you do so at your own risk.  We all believe that people should be free to choose what they want to do with their own bitcoin. 

P2P transfers come in very handy for staking, assisting a friend to play or introducing new players to the great game of poker. 

There is some very good action today and it continues to increase.  We will continue to provide great opportunities for you at Betcoin Poker and we thank you all for playing with us. 

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February 08, 2016, 10:32:53 PM
 #3990

I now have hand histories of over raked pots going back to 10/31/15.  Hands before this appear to be capped properly.  I think we can conclude that the "mistake" which resulted in Betcoin double or tripling their cap happened around midnight UTC 10/30/15.

The updated time frame during which Betcoin accidentally took but will not return (aka stole) is 10/31/15 - 12/9/15

Well over 600,000 hands were dealt, I'll share more accurate figures later.


Also, for a easier to digest summary of Betcoins uscroupulous scumbaggery, see this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.msg13507632#msg13507632

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CASINO GAMES
CRYPTO EXCLUSIVE
CLUBHOUSE
FAST & SECURE
PAYMENTS
.
..PLAY NOW!..
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February 08, 2016, 11:25:09 PM
 #3991

I now have hand histories of over raked pots going back to 10/31/15.  Hands before this appear to be capped properly.  I think we can conclude that the "mistake" which resulted in Betcoin double or tripling their cap happened around midnight UTC 10/30/15.

The updated time frame during which Betcoin accidentally took but will not return (aka stole) is 10/31/15 - 12/9/15

Well over 600,000 hands were dealt, I'll share more accurate figures later.


Also, for a easier to digest summary of Betcoins uscroupulous scumbaggery, see this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.msg13507632#msg13507632

Do you have any idea of the amount in BTC involved so we can put this in perspective.
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February 08, 2016, 11:34:34 PM
 #3992

I now have hand histories of over raked pots going back to 10/31/15.  Hands before this appear to be capped properly.  I think we can conclude that the "mistake" which resulted in Betcoin double or tripling their cap happened around midnight UTC 10/30/15.

The updated time frame during which Betcoin accidentally took but will not return (aka stole) is 10/31/15 - 12/9/15

Well over 600,000 hands were dealt, I'll share more accurate figures later.


Also, for a easier to digest summary of Betcoins uscroupulous scumbaggery, see this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.msg13507632#msg13507632

Do you have any idea of the amount in BTC involved so we can put this in perspective.

It's hard to say without knowing how many hands were played at mid-high stakes HU cash tables.

But considering just the these mid-high stakes HU tables they were taking 4 extra chips from every hand that saw a flop, I think 10 BTC is a very conservative estimate.  (Easily 100+ hands per hour, seeing 70% of flops = 280 chips/hr per table in over charged rake)

Would take 35 table hours of just mid-HS HU Cash action for Betcoin to take 10 extra Bitcoins off the table. 

Example, rake should have been capped at 1 mbtc here.



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February 08, 2016, 11:41:34 PM
 #3993

So about $4,000.00 divided amongst how many players?
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February 09, 2016, 12:09:02 AM
 #3994

Just getting started at Betcoin and really enjoying it.  Is there a way to change your affiliate?  Does anybody know.  I did some great research before signing up and tried many different sites.  I can see why people like twitchyseal and a few other people are so passionate about wanting to improve Betcoin, because it really is a fun place to play.  Twitchy's tactics are completely ineffective though and they come off as spamming trolls IMO.  Great value in the VIP at Betcoin, maybe the best online, 24/7 live customer service, great casino, dice, sports.  Betcoin gets my vote for best all around bitcoin gaming destination.  Keep up the good work and let the trolls be trolls. 
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February 09, 2016, 12:24:55 AM
 #3995

So about $4,000.00 divided amongst how many players?

I'm kind of just pulling this out of my ass here  but if I had to guess I'd say probably fewer than 25 players would account for 70%+ of total overcharged rake.  There are not a huge number of regs putting in volume.

It's also possible, 2 or 3 guys could be making up 70% of total overrake.  Any HU Bum hunter could of easily put in 40+ hours at the mid-high HU Cash games over the course of 5 or 6 weeks.  This would ad up to 5BTC + stolen from them.

I think attempting to pick a single number won't really be as meaningful as trying to determine a realistic range of what was taken. 

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February 09, 2016, 01:16:58 AM
 #3996

4,000 posts here on BitcoinTalk.org and growing.  Thank you for making us a great Bitcoin Poker destination.  We have many new innovations coming and please send your suggestions and comments via ticket at www.betcoin.ag/support

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February 09, 2016, 02:01:47 AM
 #3997

So about $4,000.00 divided amongst how many players?

I'm kind of just pulling this out of my ass here  but if I had to guess I'd say probably fewer than 25 players would account for 70%+ of total overcharged rake.  There are not a huge number of regs putting in volume.

It's also possible, 2 or 3 guys could be making up 70% of total overrake.  Any HU Bum hunter could of easily put in 40+ hours at the mid-high HU Cash games over the course of 5 or 6 weeks.  This would ad up to 5BTC + stolen from them.

I think attempting to pick a single number won't really be as meaningful as trying to determine a realistic range of what was taken. 

The problem is that you are the only one doing anything about it and the people that were scammed don't do anything. I was not playing enough here at that time and less now, to get upset about very little money.
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February 09, 2016, 02:39:25 AM
 #3998

So about $4,000.00 divided amongst how many players?

I'm kind of just pulling this out of my ass here  but if I had to guess I'd say probably fewer than 25 players would account for 70%+ of total overcharged rake.  There are not a huge number of regs putting in volume.

It's also possible, 2 or 3 guys could be making up 70% of total overrake.  Any HU Bum hunter could of easily put in 40+ hours at the mid-high HU Cash games over the course of 5 or 6 weeks.  This would ad up to 5BTC + stolen from them.

I think attempting to pick a single number won't really be as meaningful as trying to determine a realistic range of what was taken. 

The problem is that you are the only one doing anything about it and the people that were scammed don't do anything. I was not playing enough here at that time and less now, to get upset about very little money.

I think the biggest reason players dont do anything about these issues is not because they don't care, it because of the scummy way Betcoin makes any issue take way more effort to explain than is actually worth.  We have all witnessed or experienced their standard strategy of "pretend to care, ignore, offer absurd explanation, ignore, ask what the issue is again, repeat"  This along with getting treated like shit by Betcoin and all the shills is pretty unattractive. 

Most complaints about Betcoin are BS, just like most complaints about any casino. (check out http://fuckpokerstars.com/ )  It's the nature of the industry that degens lose their mind, their money and act crazy. Betcoin uses this to their advantage, and has been lumping legitimate issues into the same pile as the crazys.  I'm trying to make it somehow easier for players to stand up for themselves against sites like Betcoin. 

I understand what you're saying though, and agree to some extent.  I don't blame any player that chooses not put themselves through all the goes with calling out Betcoin - (although those who are willing to tell the world how trustworthy Betcoin is for a free ticket to daily coin are pretty despicable)  I don't ever expect a moment of triumph or anything, but it's worth noting that between pokerfraud alert and twoplustwo at least several hundred poker players are aware of whats going on at Betcoin, possibly over 1,000. I think their reputation has suffered over the past few months, After over 2 years, they still can't even get enough players to fill two tables and meet the guar for the "daily coin"

My next step I think is to make official scam accusations against them, including plo8monster and Xiaoxiao, and hopefully get the attention of those who are most trusted on this forum.





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February 09, 2016, 05:57:38 AM
 #3999

So about $4,000.00 divided amongst how many players?

I'm kind of just pulling this out of my ass here  but if I had to guess I'd say probably fewer than 25 players would account for 70%+ of total overcharged rake.  There are not a huge number of regs putting in volume.

It's also possible, 2 or 3 guys could be making up 70% of total overrake.  Any HU Bum hunter could of easily put in 40+ hours at the mid-high HU Cash games over the course of 5 or 6 weeks.  This would ad up to 5BTC + stolen from them.

I think attempting to pick a single number won't really be as meaningful as trying to determine a realistic range of what was taken. 

The problem is that you are the only one doing anything about it and the people that were scammed don't do anything. I was not playing enough here at that time and less now, to get upset about very little money.

The problem people like you should be having is if Betcoin has screwed so many of it's members out of so many coins and have acted so shady and disrespectful in so many circumstances...doesn't it stand to reason that it'll happen to you as well?  Seriously, every long term player has had problems with them where they have no payed, slow payed, lied, ignored, ect.  The only people playing there today that were playing there 6 months ago are the people on the payroll or the people so broke that they have to beg for $5 stakes every day.

Also, anyone with half a brain has to admit that when multiple people publicly discuss how a site has lied/cheated it's players, the site says nothing, yet random 0 day old accounts show up to attack the people providing the proof...that's odd.  That isn't the action of a site who has the player's long term best interests in mind.
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February 09, 2016, 06:22:30 AM
 #4000

So about $4,000.00 divided amongst how many players?

I'm kind of just pulling this out of my ass here  but if I had to guess I'd say probably fewer than 25 players would account for 70%+ of total overcharged rake.  There are not a huge number of regs putting in volume.

It's also possible, 2 or 3 guys could be making up 70% of total overrake.  Any HU Bum hunter could of easily put in 40+ hours at the mid-high HU Cash games over the course of 5 or 6 weeks.  This would ad up to 5BTC + stolen from them.

I think attempting to pick a single number won't really be as meaningful as trying to determine a realistic range of what was taken. 

The problem is that you are the only one doing anything about it and the people that were scammed don't do anything. I was not playing enough here at that time and less now, to get upset about very little money.

The problem people like you should be having is if Betcoin has screwed so many of it's members out of so many coins and have acted so shady and disrespectful in so many circumstances...doesn't it stand to reason that it'll happen to you as well?  Seriously, every long term player has had problems with them where they have no payed, slow payed, lied, ignored, ect.  The only people playing there today that were playing there 6 months ago are the people on the payroll or the people so broke that they have to beg for $5 stakes every day.

Also, anyone with half a brain has to admit that when multiple people publicly discuss how a site has lied/cheated it's players, the site says nothing, yet random 0 day old accounts show up to attack the people providing the proof...that's odd.  That isn't the action of a site who has the player's long term best interests in mind.

I have not played at Betcoin for a couple of months for the reasons posted here.
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