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Author Topic: Fastcoin  (Read 3181 times)
steelhouse
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August 22, 2011, 09:02:04 AM
 #1

The purpose of this is to create a fast small decentralized currency.  The bitcoin block chain is growing 100 mb a month.  The idea is that the currency will never be used for business transactions.  It will only be used to fund wallets and be exchanged into other currencies.

1. Blockchain limited to 1 years worth.  All fastcoin older than 1 year old will be deleted (the block chain will be cut). It might be possible to check the blocks and update coins before they are deleted automatically.
2. 1 block found every 2.4 hours is to keep the block chain small as possible and discourage transactions. 10x365=3650 blocks are maximum.
3. Difficulty change every block.
4. All mined coins out in about 1 year, thus coins put out at steady rate.  20,000,000,000 in existence.
5. To cut the creation of fastcoin. All transaction fees mandatory fixed at 3% truncated and rounded up to 1, 100% deleted.  Thus if you do a 100 coin transaction, 3 coins will be the transaction fee.  In hindsight the fees might be logarithmic to prevent attack.
6. Software to determine remaining coins in existence and age of your coins. Coins combined and wallet cleaned updated with every transaction.  A transaction is required to update wallet.
7. Two weeks lead time prior to start.
8. If possible a businesscoin linked to fastcoin with a free exchange built into the client.  businesscoin might have your name address attached to a ledger so all transactions can be tracked openly.
9. Mining software built into the client where everyone submits shares, thus there are no solo or pooled mining.  The client is a big pool.
10. At the end of the year, 2,000,000 put out a year at a constant rate.  This is a 0.01% inflation rate to make up for a small percentage of lost coins.
11. It might be better not to have mining for the 1st year and distribute all coins by bounty.  100 messages on this board might earn you 1,000,000, why waste electricity.

Please send bounty if used. lgpl
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August 22, 2011, 01:16:42 PM
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1. blockchain limited to 100 mb in size - the block chain does not accept coins deep within the block thus the chain after 100 mb can be deleted.
2. 1 block found a minute, difficulty changes similar to solid.
3. All mined coins out within 2 years, thus coins per blocked halved every 3 months. 1,000,000 in existence.
4. Bitcoin gui based.
5. All transaction fees mandatory fixed at 3% truncated to 0.01, 100% go to miners. 
6. Software to determine remaining coins in existence.
7. During a transaction all fastcoins are sent in the wallet, to reset the wallet pointer.  But, only fees on spent coins.
8. The 3% fee will benefit the poor.

Idea is to make a valuable coin.  However, non-used coins go bye bye.

So the result is surely that all wallet software eventually implements an automated system to transfer older coins to another location so as to 'refresh' them.
Will the additional movement of these 'housekeeping' transactions add a significant amount to the chain size?
I'm guessing they might..  100MB sounds awfully small.. I can imagine if it got popular and the limit was approached - there would be a frenzy of housekeeping transactions such that they were a significant proportion of all transactions (?)
Then what..  everyone's wealth gets siphoned off to the miners within a few days/weeks?

Sounds like a fast-track to chain self-destruction!



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August 22, 2011, 07:03:49 PM
 #3

I don't understand your topic subject "[1 BTC bounty] Fastcoin". What's the bounty for? You're gonna pay someone 1 BTC to code this for you? In that case you miiiight wanna bump that bounty up a bit Smiley

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steelhouse
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August 31, 2011, 02:45:29 AM
 #4

Updated.  I want to give ideas to create a small fast sustainable currency.
kano
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August 31, 2011, 06:22:33 AM
 #5

LOL you'll pay someone $8 to spend days working on the bitcoind software to introduce (among other things) a really bad idea that people lose their money after a year of inactivity ...

Good luck with that Tongue

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steelhouse
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August 31, 2011, 07:14:23 AM
 #6

Did you use to work on kanotix?

In an ideal world you could allow the block to grow and grow.  But we live in reality.  bitcoin block and index is pushing 700 mbs right now, and when I load the client it takes a minute before the client pops up.  Takes a long time to catch up to the block chain.  New users might have to wait 12 hours to get the whole chain.  Much of the bitcoin drop is failure to get new people interested in bitcoin.  The reason is who wants to download a block chain that takes 12 hours.    IMHO, bitcoin use has dropped off about 30% from 2 months ago and the block chain is only growing 3 mb per day when it use to grow 5 mb per day.  

1 year 2 years or 3 years 5 years does not matter.  The point wallet.dat in bitcoin will in 10 years will be massive, in 50 years it will not be a decentralized currency.   Who is going to download 1 tb to use it?  The idea is we have a mechanism to clean out the block chain easily.  Maybe instead of 1 year it should be 3 years.  If you don't use bitcoin in 3 years you don't deserve to keep them as a store of value.

All you need is an api to connect to any wallet, and you could develop a single app to use any wallet.  It would be fast, and even today if you want a fast bitcoin, you are going to have to accept 0 unconfirmed as payment.  Wallets should be used for most business transactions, as they can also be tracked easily.

In many ways solidcoin does what  I want.  However, bitcoin could be fixed with a 0.1 transaction fee.
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August 31, 2011, 02:30:03 PM
 #7

Ideally technology will improve to the point that the size is a non-issue. 10-15 years ago, I was on dialup and had a 8 GB hard drive. Now I'm have 10 Mb/s DSL and 1TB+ HD. 10 years from now? Who knows?
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August 31, 2011, 02:49:43 PM
 #8

(Sorry, no I've nothing to do with Kanotix - I've used kano and かの online since 2006)

The actual wallet.dat file isn't what grows that large.
So since it's the most critical part of your person bitcoin, it's really not an issue for backup at least.

Mainly it's blk001.dat (and blkindex.dat) that will be growing to those sizes and of course is needed by the bitcoin/bitcoind program for spending (not receiving) bitcoins associated directly with your wallet.
However, their size will almost certainly be dealt with in later versions of the software anyway.

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August 31, 2011, 03:14:20 PM
 #9

zimbobwai 's currency has an expiration date as well, not a good model to copy.

Quote
Ideally technology will improve to the point that the size is a non-issue. 10-15 years ago, I was on dialup and had a 8 GB hard drive. Now I'm have 10 Mb/s DSL and 1TB+ HD. 10 years from now? Who knows


and a year ago, I had an unlimited mobile data plan and now it has a cap. There is also only so much improvement you can do to wireless. I suppose though in the future we will have working banks and not have wallets on our pc unless we really want them

Quote
Mainly it's blk001.dat (and blkindex.dat) that will be growing to those sizes and of course is needed by the bitcoin/bitcoind program for spending (not receiving) bitcoins associated directly with your wallet.


then how come I have to download them all to recieve my coins? and when peoples clients lock up and they dont get their coins, people tell them to del the blk files and -rescan.. sure seems like you need them to find your coins, at least locally

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kano
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August 31, 2011, 11:34:22 PM
 #10

...
Quote
Mainly it's blk001.dat (and blkindex.dat) that will be growing to those sizes and of course is needed by the bitcoin/bitcoind program for spending (not receiving) bitcoins associated directly with your wallet.


then how come I have to download them all to recieve my coins? and when peoples clients lock up and they dont get their coins, people tell them to del the blk files and -rescan.. sure seems like you need them to find your coins, at least locally
If you don't run bitcoin/bitcoind for however many months your coins are still there in the block chain.

Your wallet doesn't actually store the coins, it just happens to keep track of them (and store the keys that give you access to them)

If you lose the keys, you can't spend them later - it's the keys that allow you to spend them, not something else in the wallet.

No one else can get them and they wont suddenly expire (they don't expire in the REAL Bitcoin)

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steelhouse
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September 01, 2011, 08:17:42 PM
 #11

The whole idea of fastcoin is to keep blk0001.dat growth as small as possible.  It does this by having 3% fee.  Cutting the block after 1 or 2 years, and generating blocks every 2.4 hours.  If bitcoin was under the same scenerio, I think the blockchain would presently be growing about 1/4 mb-day.  You would transfer say 10 fastcoin to instawallet or mtgox or mybitcoinwallet to be used as your wallet.  I suggest the wallets also be part of a ring where each is given a 5 digit code.  Thus when you buy something from a retailer you use a fastcoin code and a five digit code.  But the fastcoin coin of the wallet is a fake code, it is an internal wallet code.  The vendor must belong to the wallet.

The vendor never accepts fastcoin directly, except for large purchases like cars and houses, even that would be done by the wallet, since there is a receipt and paper trail.

Fastcoin is just the decentralized center of the currency, that is the real money.  The wallets are the fake money.  
steelhouse
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September 02, 2011, 06:51:35 AM
 #12

I hope so, hope they give me a bounty.  I am not here to write code.  My mind is 47 years old and not sharp enough anymore.    I want all the coins out in one year to make the block chain even smaller.  Why fool around?  May want the money supply to attempt to mimic the dollar which is about $20 trillion. Thus we all will be millionaires.  I may want 1/10th of transaction fees to be deleted to create some good deflation.  A 1000 FC coin transaction is 30 FC, with 27 going to miners and 3 to deflation.  However, lost wallets and expired wallets might be enough deflation.
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September 06, 2011, 11:15:26 PM
 #13

@OP/steelhouse

So will old gathered coins just dissapear?  That is no good for a currency.  People need to be able to take all their fortunes and dump them into coins to hide them and keep them safe from their ex-wives, tax collectors, cops, etc.  My idea is basically to trim these transactions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41905.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40029.0

Also the 6 hour delay is bad.  They need to take no more than 30 seconds.  And 6 hours of transactions will still use lots of data.

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September 07, 2011, 10:18:14 AM
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The whole idea of fastcoin is to keep blk0001.dat growth as small as possible.  It does this by having 3% fee.
I see you have not too much clue about how bitcoin works.
The (storage) size of a transaction does not depend on the actual transaction value.

Look at a recent "attack" (it is suspected that this comes from solidcoin/coinhunter):
http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000000305f98ffbe1db8445ce847fb9a924551945b465386c828f136f
Some huge (storage) transaction containing just some tiny values. In your model that would cost near to nothing.

So the only way to keep the block chain small is to charge per kilobyte (bitcoin), not some % value.
Coinhunter made the same mistake as you, and so the solidcoin block chain almost 100MB a week.

steelhouse
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September 07, 2011, 11:05:14 PM
 #15

@OP/steelhouse

So will old gathered coins just dissapear?  That is no good for a currency.  People need to be able to take all their fortunes and dump them into coins to hide them and keep them safe from their ex-wives, tax collectors, cops, etc.  My idea is basically to trim these transactions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41905.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40029.0

Also the 6 hour delay is bad.  They need to take no more than 30 seconds.  And 6 hours of transactions will still use lots of data.

The 2.4 hour or 1 day delay, will slow transactions.  You will save all the space of the header of the block.  If you have to wait 1 day you are going to send more money to a wallet, thus even less transactions.   I am thinking it might be possible to have automatic updating of the wallet.  When the block is about to be deleted, during the 2.4 hour wait.  Software will check to see if any of the coins are still valid.  The software will update the new coin to a block.  Whenever you send or receive a coin all your coins are sent and all the receipients coins are sent and combined to make a wallet.  Thus your wallet is just 109 coins and not 20 24 27 2 2 4 15 coins.

I really don't like the idea of mining and hope owners of the coins protect the network.  Thus, I think after the original coins are distributed, mining will give virtually no coin.
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September 07, 2011, 11:13:12 PM
 #16

Let's say I want to buy a car in person with bitcoins?  Get a laptop to load 1 gig of data that takes 1 month.  Transfer it in person.  So I have to sign a contract then wait a day for them to clear.  Then try to get the judge to enforce it if one party doesn't come through.


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steelhouse
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September 07, 2011, 11:23:27 PM
 #17

If you use bitcoin it would be like paying in cash.   If you buy a car, 1 day is not too long to wait.  I don't know how much block header uses in total space so you could lower the block generation time 90%, but I don't like the idea of the fastcoin to be used for store transactions directly.  The stone money was never used.  You could also put coin on 10 ewallets over $3000 on each and just use ewallets for the transaction to divide risk.
steelhouse
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September 07, 2011, 11:25:02 PM
 #18

The whole idea of fastcoin is to keep blk0001.dat growth as small as possible.  It does this by having 3% fee.
I see you have not too much clue about how bitcoin works.
The (storage) size of a transaction does not depend on the actual transaction value.

Look at a recent "attack" (it is suspected that this comes from solidcoin/coinhunter):
http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000000305f98ffbe1db8445ce847fb9a924551945b465386c828f136f
Some huge (storage) transaction containing just some tiny values. In your model that would cost near to nothing.

So the only way to keep the block chain small is to charge per kilobyte (bitcoin), not some % value.
Coinhunter made the same mistake as you, and so the solidcoin block chain almost 100MB a week.



Thanks a static fee is best.  Maybe $1 USD equivalent per transaction.  Hopefully to be destroyed to create deflation to facilitate gdp growth.
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September 06, 2013, 05:28:34 AM
 #19

Remembering old topics

Grin
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September 06, 2013, 11:39:57 AM
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