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Author Topic: Intellectual Property - In All Fairness!  (Read 95974 times)
BitterTea
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October 11, 2011, 08:47:49 PM
 #1821

Backpedaling, are you? Are you against regulations which would prevent others from keeping slaves on their own property?

Oh, and your earlier comments about animals having no rights is repugnant. Especially in light of how you feel about slavery.

He's not backpedaling. You're just conflating unrelated concepts.

For instance, I don't like DRM, I avoid purchasing software which is encumbered by it. I will never encumber my own software with it. I wouldn't, however, advocate violence against those that provide their software encumbered by DRM.

Do you see the difference?
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FredericBastiat
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October 11, 2011, 08:49:07 PM
 #1822

Backpedaling, are you? Are you against regulations which would prevent others from keeping slaves on their own property?

Oh, and your earlier comments about animals having no rights is repugnant. Especially in light of how you feel about slavery.

I haven't backpedaled once since I started posting in this forum. I dare you to find one instance of it. I might even consider a bitcoin bounty just to make my point.

There is no absolutely zero similarity with ownership of animals and slavery. None. Animals don't have rights.

Slavery applies to humans, period. Keeping slaves is not a regulatory issue as it already falls under the NAP.

Don't twist my words. Don't put words in my mouth either.

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FredericBastiat
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October 11, 2011, 08:50:59 PM
 #1823

Supply a reference quote.

How funny! You think the truth of the matter does not exist unless I do the research for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quincy_Adams#Anti-Slavery_Petitions

http://home.nas.com/lopresti/ps.htm

He was talking about humans not animals. Idiot.

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FirstAscent
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October 11, 2011, 08:51:20 PM
 #1824

Animals don't have rights.

So you're then an advocate of a system in which your neighbor can torture animals to his heart's content? Dude, you're really inconsistent here, hence the accusation of you backpedaling.
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October 11, 2011, 08:53:44 PM
 #1825

Supply a reference quote.

How funny! You think the truth of the matter does not exist unless I do the research for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quincy_Adams#Anti-Slavery_Petitions

http://home.nas.com/lopresti/ps.htm

He was talking about humans not animals. Idiot.

Excuse me? Calm down, as it seems you're getting a little hot under the collar. Explain what it is exactly that you require of me in the way of citations so that I may get right on it.
FredericBastiat
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October 11, 2011, 08:55:35 PM
 #1826

Animals don't have rights.

So you're then an advocate of a system in which your neighbor can torture animals to his heart's content? Dude, you're really inconsistent here, hence the accusation of you backpedaling.

Stupid. What did I say about putting words in my mouth?

I don't advocate torture of any living thing ever. How's that for you?

However and notwithstanding the above comment, I would only consider laws which encompass human acts towards humans, never including animals. Animals are property.

Still not backpedaling.

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FredericBastiat
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October 11, 2011, 09:02:51 PM
 #1827

Excuse me? Calm down, as it seems you're getting a little hot under the collar. Explain what it is exactly that you require of me in the way of citations so that I may get right on it.

You're intentionally misquoting and misinterpreting me, hence stupid and idiotic. I know your background. Nothing short of eloquent and educated speech. Don't start down the assinine trolling and chumming-for-a-fight path, it will get you nowhere with me. Assuming you even care.

Slavery != Animal ownership.

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October 11, 2011, 09:07:20 PM
 #1828

Excuse me? Calm down, as it seems you're getting a little hot under the collar. Explain what it is exactly that you require of me in the way of citations so that I may get right on it.

You're intentionally misquoting and misinterpreting me, hence stupid and idiotic. I know your background. Nothing short of eloquent and educated speech. Don't start down the assinine trolling and chumming-for-a-fight path, it will get you nowhere with me. Assuming you even care.

Slavery != Animal ownership.

We're not discussing animal ownership here. We're discussing cruelty and torture to animals, and you've admitted that you won't tolerate any such regulations to prevent it. Furthermore, your views really are antiquated. As I've said, John Quincy Adams was more modern than you in his thinking.
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October 11, 2011, 09:09:38 PM
 #1829

Backpedaling, are you? Are you against regulations which would prevent others from keeping slaves on their own property?

Oh, and your earlier comments about animals having no rights is repugnant. Especially in light of how you feel about slavery.

He's not backpedaling. You're just conflating unrelated concepts.

For instance, I don't like DRM, I avoid purchasing software which is encumbered by it. I will never encumber my own software with it. I wouldn't, however, advocate violence against those that provide their software encumbered by DRM.

Do you see the difference?

Fred says libertarianism means you can torture your dog to death.  And repeat this again and again.

I find that repugnant.  And I am totally OK with using legal process to stop sadists torturing their dogs.  

What about you?  Do you think people have some natural right to torture dogs?

FredericBastiat
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October 11, 2011, 09:19:52 PM
 #1830

We're not discussing animal ownership here. We're discussing cruelty and torture to animals, and you've admitted that you won't tolerate any such regulations to prevent it. Furthermore, your views really are antiquated. As I've said, John Quincy Adams was more modern than you in his thinking.

Again, I repeat; find me a reference where John Q.A. was referring to animals. I'm not antiquated, just not easily fooled. Nice try.

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Rassah
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October 11, 2011, 09:20:01 PM
 #1831

Wrong, owning a sofa is exactly like owning land (except mobility), like owning a dog, like owning a DVD. Making IP laws, dog laws and DVD laws different distorts the meaning and interpretation of property and makes it inconsistent in it's utility and logical construction.

Wrong. Demonstrate how they're the same. As an example, demonstrate how, because you handed Joe ten one hundred dollar bills in exchange for Rover, you are under the belief that such an act accords you the exact same rights as handing Sally ten one hundred dollar bills for her refrigerator.

Wait... that's exactly what we did when we got our new refrigerator, and when we bought our dog (number of hundred dollar bills varied). Actually, when we bought our past 4 dogs and 3 cats (they die of old age after 15+ years). Was there supposed to be something different?

Out of curiosity, who is 'we'?

My family.

Hawker
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October 11, 2011, 09:22:33 PM
 #1832

My family.

Is your family is entitled to torture the dogs and cats it bought?

FredericBastiat
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October 11, 2011, 09:22:43 PM
 #1833

Fred says libertarianism means you can torture your dog to death.  And repeat this again and again.

I find that repugnant.  And I am totally OK with using legal process to stop sadists torturing their dogs.  

What about you?  Do you think people have some natural right to torture dogs?

Oh, so you're going to put words in my mouth too are you? Nice. Have nothing better to do with your time?

I see you didn't read my post. Here it is again, in case you missed it somehow.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38854.msg568807#msg568807

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FirstAscent
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October 11, 2011, 09:24:22 PM
 #1834

We're not discussing animal ownership here. We're discussing cruelty and torture to animals, and you've admitted that you won't tolerate any such regulations to prevent it. Furthermore, your views really are antiquated. As I've said, John Quincy Adams was more modern than you in his thinking.

Again, I repeat; find me a reference where John Q.A. was referring to animals. I'm not antiquated, just not easily fooled. Nice try.

Nobody's trying to fool you Fred.

http://books.google.com/books?id=O1FTPVl9UEEC&pg=PA132&dq=john+quincy+adams+horse+dog&hl=en&ei=t7OUTrHaPKr3sQLRrbTvAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=0Oi6qgCnoAgC&pg=PA242&lpg=PA242&dq=john+quincy+adams+%22animal+rights%22&source=bl&ots=gF0FJbpPgv&sig=JI3WffgocD9S-d6l1auU8mqlDAc&hl=en&ei=NK6UTrmcBOm2sQKgnvzvAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEgQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=john%20quincy%20adams%20%22animal%20rights%22&f=false
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October 11, 2011, 09:26:02 PM
 #1835

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Out of curiosity, who is 'we'?

My family.

Who, in your family, paid for the dogs, cats and refrigerator?
Rassah
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October 11, 2011, 09:28:50 PM
 #1836

My family.

Is your family is entitled to torture the dogs and cats it bought?

Sure! But we don't do it because we love animals. (Except when we forget to walk them and they poop all over the kitchen)

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October 11, 2011, 09:30:14 PM
 #1837

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Out of curiosity, who is 'we'?

My family.

Who, in your family, paid for the dogs, cats and refrigerator?

Why is that relevant to intellectual property?

FirstAscent
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October 11, 2011, 09:38:15 PM
 #1838

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Out of curiosity, who is 'we'?

My family.

Who, in your family, paid for the dogs, cats and refrigerator?

Why is that relevant to intellectual property?

I'm trying to get a sense of the households in which hardcore libertarians live. It's not an unreasonable question.
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October 11, 2011, 09:49:08 PM
 #1839

My family.

Is your family is entitled to torture the dogs and cats it bought?

Sure! But we don't do it because we love animals. (Except when we forget to walk them and they poor all over the kitchen)

Since you've already said you are OK with killing babies, I suppose it was silly to ask your position on torturing animals.

In terms of politics and society, you're advocating a type of society that will never be accepted.  Its a purely intellectual exercise.  Have no you interest in things that are likely to matter in the real world?

FredericBastiat
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October 11, 2011, 09:49:34 PM
 #1840

We're not discussing animal ownership here. We're discussing cruelty and torture to animals, and you've admitted that you won't tolerate any such regulations to prevent it. Furthermore, your views really are antiquated. As I've said, John Quincy Adams was more modern than you in his thinking.

Nobody's trying to fool you Fred.

Epic fail again. That was a metaphor. He never implied that dogs or horses had rights. If anything, it was a off-handed remark intended to mock a stupid argument posed by a critic of slavery whose conclusion and logic was patently false. That being, the US government would be overthrown, and the liberty of the American people would be destroyed if slaves could petition the government for redress.

Same kind of crap I've been reading here about making slavery and animal cruelty equivalent. As if.

Congresscritters give me pause. Nothing ever changes, same ol' ignorance then, slightly different flavor now.

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