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Author Topic: Is Bitcoin failing?  (Read 4080 times)
black_swan
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January 05, 2014, 01:15:53 PM
 #21

This chart is very wrong, almost 99% of all the fiat money belongs to federal reserve banks, which is privately owned

Also some of the bitcoin elite is not known and address != phisical person, take away exchange wallets, etc.
Also the chart should include number of coin owned
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January 06, 2014, 08:24:22 AM
 #22

Why does wealth need to be distributed?
An-caps versus An-socs. Go go go.

An-cap: Leave me alone.

An-soc: F-you. Give us your shit. Or we'll shoot you.

Never a productive argument. It always ends the same.

Wealth distribution isn't the problem - the problem is poverty.

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Ibian
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January 06, 2014, 08:37:31 AM
 #23

Why does wealth need to be distributed?
An-caps versus An-socs. Go go go.

An-cap: Leave me alone.

An-soc: F-you. Give us your shit. Or we'll shoot you.

Never a productive argument. It always ends the same.

Wealth distribution isn't the problem - the problem is poverty.
Not even. Some years back the economy in my country was (allegedly, didn't follow credible sources back then) doing great, everyone had more money but some people had more extra money than others and THIS UPSET PEOPLE. It's not poverty, that's just where things become most obvious, it's greed and envy. It's never enough.

There is no bubble.
cr1776
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January 06, 2014, 12:18:49 PM
 #24

Why does wealth need to be distributed?
An-caps versus An-socs. Go go go.

An-cap: Leave me alone.

An-soc: F-you. Give us your shit. Or we'll shoot you.

Never a productive argument. It always ends the same.

Wealth distribution isn't the problem - the problem is poverty.

Lol.

Perfect encapsulation of the argument. It always ends in threatened violence as a last resort.

The only thing I'd add is:
A-C: freedom will help everyone out of poverty
A-S: F-you.  It is about my envy and my greed for your stuff
Xav
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January 06, 2014, 01:12:52 PM
 #25

Why does wealth need to be distributed?
An-caps versus An-socs. Go go go.

An-cap: Leave me alone.

An-soc: F-you. Give us your shit. Or we'll shoot you.

Never a productive argument. It always ends the same.

Wealth distribution isn't the problem - the problem is poverty.

Lol.

Perfect encapsulation of the argument. It always ends in threatened violence as a last resort.

The only thing I'd add is:
A-C: freedom will help everyone out of poverty
A-S: F-you.  It is about my envy and my greed for your stuff

"Freedom"? Do you mean today's Bitcoin-market controlled by 47 'cowboys', is any better than the current system ruled by banksters and govs?

"F-you"? As in, I deserve grapes whereas my neighbor gets cumcumber for the same job?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV0InWq4fZ4
Loki8
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January 06, 2014, 05:24:32 PM
 #26

Not even. Some years back the economy in my country was (allegedly, didn't follow credible sources back then) doing great, everyone had more money but some people had more extra money than others and THIS UPSET PEOPLE. It's not poverty, that's just where things become most obvious, it's greed and envy. It's never enough.

A society works well with ethics, values, and social responsibility. Capitalism is not honestly and ethically, it's amoral and promotes greed.

However capitalism is born in a Christian ethic, and with that eroding, we now only have self-interest (property without responsibility).
Ibian
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January 06, 2014, 05:45:17 PM
 #27

Not even. Some years back the economy in my country was (allegedly, didn't follow credible sources back then) doing great, everyone had more money but some people had more extra money than others and THIS UPSET PEOPLE. It's not poverty, that's just where things become most obvious, it's greed and envy. It's never enough.

A society works well with ethics, values, and social responsibility. Capitalism is not honestly and ethically, it's amoral and promotes greed.

However capitalism is born in a Christian ethic, and with that eroding, we now only have self-interest (property without responsibility).
No, it's the opposite of that. Socialism is redistribution of wealth (in this case by force) from those who produce to those who do not. It is socialists who are greedy. Capitalists just want the right to keep what they own. Socialists want the right to take from others.

There is no bubble.
cr1776
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January 06, 2014, 06:12:09 PM
 #28

Not even. Some years back the economy in my country was (allegedly, didn't follow credible sources back then) doing great, everyone had more money but some people had more extra money than others and THIS UPSET PEOPLE. It's not poverty, that's just where things become most obvious, it's greed and envy. It's never enough.

A society works well with ethics, values, and social responsibility. Capitalism is not honestly and ethically, it's amoral and promotes greed.

However capitalism is born in a Christian ethic, and with that eroding, we now only have self-interest (property without responsibility).

I agree about ethics, values, and social responsibility, but an economic system is (as you seemed to say) amoral and agnostic.  It works better when people are honest, but it doesn't impose it except through contracts and reputation.

Capitalism about freedom.  The true test for people is if they support freedom or they support force.  Capitalism (not crony-capitalism) is voluntary.  Everyone trades with everyone else for what each considers mutual benefit.  Socialism, communism, all kinds of authoritarianisms require you to be forced into their mold.  There is no way out.  You can have a socialist commune in a free country, but not the reverse. 

That should tell you all you need to know about the differences and about the motives of those who are advocating force.

facundop
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January 06, 2014, 06:31:55 PM
 #29

A currency going so high in price is not falling..
Xav
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January 07, 2014, 12:57:39 PM
 #30

A currency going so high in price is not falling..

Millions of flies can't be wrong? Today, Bitcoin's free market is like a toilet-seat. Everybody sits on it thinking Pecunia non olet; this is very expensive shit gaining value day by day. I wonder about Satoshi's prediction

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I’m sure that in 20 years there will either be very large (bitcoin) transaction volume or no volume.
samjtemp
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January 07, 2014, 08:46:27 PM
 #31

"Capitalism about freedom.  The true test for people is if they support freedom or they support force.  Capitalism (not crony-capitalism) is voluntary. "

This argument is the same as Christians, Communists, Marxists, and even Fascists all use to justify their group. You wash your hands clean by claiming all negative attributes of the ideology "aren't REALLY us, it was our idea being twisted."

Can somebody point to any period in human history where "Free Trade Capitalism" existed without a heavy reliance on slavery, child labor, mass inequality?

None? That tells me all I need to know about Capitalism where you must have a winner and loser.

When the winner no longer has any competition their next step is to manipulate the society so future competitors can no longer challenge them. This is when it becomes "Crony".

What about when your born into a rich family that owns the Government, the police, the maffia, and the businesses. You get the social connections, the best schools, private trainers, and wealth while I am
born into a family of poverty with a worthless school and none of the above so that I can go to work in one of your factories.

Technically "it's volunteer" but not really.


There are flaws with all of these Government systems. No good solution has been found.
Kungfucheez
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January 07, 2014, 08:53:33 PM
 #32

"Capitalism about freedom.  The true test for people is if they support freedom or they support force.  Capitalism (not crony-capitalism) is voluntary. "

This argument is the same as Christians, Communists, Marxists, and even Fascists all use to justify their group. You wash your hands clean by claiming all negative attributes of the ideology "aren't REALLY us, it was our idea being twisted."

Can somebody point to any period in human history where "Free Trade Capitalism" existed without a heavy reliance on slavery, child labor, mass inequality?

None? That tells me all I need to know about Capitalism where you must have a winner and loser.

When the winner no longer has any competition their next step is to manipulate the society so future competitors can no longer challenge them. This is when it becomes "Crony".

What about when your born into a rich family that owns the Government, the police, the maffia, and the businesses. You get the social connections, the best schools, private trainers, and wealth while I am
born into a family of poverty with a worthless school and none of the above so that I can go to work in one of your factories.

Technically "it's volunteer" but not really.


There are flaws with all of these Government systems. No good solution has been found.

I know, Capitalism is the worst, all those first world nations that have adopted it will never succeed.......
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January 07, 2014, 09:42:43 PM
 #33

"Capitalism about freedom.  The true test for people is if they support freedom or they support force.  Capitalism (not crony-capitalism) is voluntary. "

This argument is the same as Christians, Communists, Marxists, and even Fascists all use to justify their group. You wash your hands clean by claiming all negative attributes of the ideology "aren't REALLY us, it was our idea being twisted."

Can somebody point to any period in human history where "Free Trade Capitalism" existed without a heavy reliance on slavery, child labor, mass inequality?

None? That tells me all I need to know about Capitalism where you must have a winner and loser.

When the winner no longer has any competition their next step is to manipulate the society so future competitors can no longer challenge them. This is when it becomes "Crony".

What about when your born into a rich family that owns the Government, the police, the maffia, and the businesses. You get the social connections, the best schools, private trainers, and wealth while I am
born into a family of poverty with a worthless school and none of the above so that I can go to work in one of your factories.

Technically "it's volunteer" but not really.


There are flaws with all of these Government systems. No good solution has been found.



I know, Capitalism is the worst, all those first world nations that have adopted it will never succeed.......

Actually, I look at is "these nations have succeeded despite not adopting a truly Capitalist system." We have a mixed economy with the ever increasing reach of government controls will ensure that this breed of "captalism" is doomed to fail. The top 1% has created quite a mess for themselves.
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