Could BTC ever be manipulated like Wall Street is?

[justusranvier]

It's far easier to break a promise than it is to break cryptography.

OK, right ... if you use SEPA and "long and poor delay" to wire money.
That why i use the "more" fast method of virwox ... but restricted by fee and amount of money.

I was talking about bitcoins but I suppose fiat matters too, I guess.

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[nastybit]

And all the withdrawal delays on Gox suggest that they are ALREADY using a large amount of fractional reserve.  It's a little foolish to think they're not.

Maybe they use some money but I think gox also had real problems with bank accounts all over the world.
Not defending them ofc! Only time will tell

[coinholic]

Yes of course! No doubt about it. These manipulators are called whales as most of us already know. These whales are composed of the government and its affiliates, Banks (the Rothschilds and Rockefellers mainly), and all these other billionaires who could easily scoop up any coin they want! They are the masters of manipulation and they dictate the wave. All we can do is surf along with it...

[r32godzilla]

There's nothing stopping this from happening right now. Mt Gox, Bitstamp, etc don't trade bitcoins on their order book - they trade database entries that represent bitcoins (and USD).

Any of them could trivially create as many database entries as they want to trade with and get away with it as long as not all their customers try to withdraw at the same time.

Wow, that's interesting!

But it still means the exchanges are the only ones who have the power to do that, right?

Why would all the customers withdrawing at once be a problem - is it because if they don't "have" BTCs, they don't have database entries representing BTCs either?

Yes we have already seen many Chinese exchanges creating fake trade volume and manipulating bitcoin price.

Suppose if an exchange creates fake trade volumes and manipulate bitcoin price to increase more and if all investors create sell order at the same time,it would become a big trouble to the exchange as they were the one who created such fake entries and responsible for the price.They might not be able to process the sell order of their users which would create a bad reputation for their exchange.

[Dexion]

I think we see a lot of market manipulation happened, because today, market conditions are very weak for crypto, Mt.Gox is one of the markets that get price manipulation, its trading volume suddenly rises high, and anyone can manipulate prices, whales, hacker.

and this manipulation greatly affects the market and the crypto value.

[kent47400]

my experience for Altcoins is often manipulated but for Bitcoin I have not felt nay when manipulated.

unless I see the price at Bitfinex, the price of Bitcoin goes up sharply and prices go down dramatically.
all of it is needed with an average volume of 1000 Bitcoin, there may also be a price manipulation there. (but who knows)

[elygil2022]

Wall Street has safeguards against manipulations. Why would they risk losing the trust and confidence of investors? Bitcoin needs regulations to become mainstream and protect the investing public. From scammers, not governments. Only criminals and paranoid conspiracy theorists are afraid of governments.

[SnapDown22]

I got the idea from another thread around here:

What would be the banksters best shot be to manipulate BTC as they please?

As I see it, there are no derivates on BTC. On the other hand, who stops me from giving out/selling a future myself on the price of BTC in 6 months?

Gold is hardcore manipulated, a big part of it is done with naked shorts. At least that's not possible with BTC, if I see it clearly.

The question is if we should be concerned about JP Morgan ever taking over BTC like they have taken over silver and gold and controlling it.

if it can be manipulated I think there must be parties who benefit and there are also the disadvantaged, I think manipulation is a difficult thing to do because we know that we can not know for certain that the sale and purchase occurred

[pumbum]

if the manipulators of the course too much drop the course, we will be able to talk about bitcoin to our children as a failed way to get rich and buy lambo. But seriously, the manipulation of the rate can really threaten the stability and faith in bitcoin, as a currency that can change something in the future

[Centola544]

If they have borrowed property or given an option to cover, it's not. well ... when i have 5 BTC in my wallet on my bitcoin-QT software ... it's not a database. bitcoin will survive again "big sale" ... the computer industry's traders do this.

[basici]

I think that bitcoin and crypto currency are even more manipulative than we can imagine

[Chiko.fun]

All the delays in withdrawals on Gox show that they are willing to use a large amount of staggered reserves. There is no doubt about that. These whales include the government and its affiliates, banks and all the other billionaires who can easily find any penny they want! All we can do is surf with it, which affects the market and the encryption value. Unless I see the price at Bitfinex, Bitcoin prices are going up sharply and prices have dropped dramatically.

[thankyoulord]

I was reading a thread online weeks ago about how every industry have a certain group of influencing bodies who manipulate the prices of the market they belong to. This is true especially in industries that have really wealthy individuals be it government officials, billionaires or the like, these are the big sharks or whales that have their final say effect the way things are being done in these industries. So in bitcoin too, there are influencing bodies, market manipulators who own a very good number of bitcoin to their names. If they decide to stop circulation of bitcoin, they can very much do it with ease.

[Kakmakr]

The Bitcoin price is determined by supply and demand, so it is quite obvious if someone has enough fiat, they can basically get in and buy a bunch of coins over a long period and then suddenly dump them on the market, to cause some panic on the markets. When the price drops down, they just buy back these coins at a lower price than what they acquired them.

It just needs to be pointed out that a whole lot of bitcoins is needed to do this and a lot of fiat money. This is normally not done by individuals, but rather a group of whales. 

[kaisa]

The source of manipulation is Fiat, bitcoin exchanges are more rational when there are supply and demand. Whereas fiat can be made at any time and can be used to manipulate the value of bitcoin. 

[florianuhlemann]

the cryptocurrency, which has a strong base while the same is manipulated by the fear of the people

[kaya11]

Exchanges can manipulate basically anything they want and you've got no protection if you leave your coins on one, at least until voting pools become feature that users demand from the exchanges.

Wall Street is getting involved in the exchange market, and as soon as they do be very, very careful. Keep as many of your bitcoins as possible in your own wallet and regularly withdraw your entire balance all at once just to make sure the exchange actually has them.

It's virtually guaranteed that they are going to play undisclosed fractional reserve games with customer deposits.

That is why like banks if we have huge of amounts of money and we want to withdraw a large amount they would need weeks or even months to withdraw? Like exchange there are limits too. I thought we could withdraw any amount we want in the first place. If they play undisclosed and lose all of those amounts what could happen to our deposited assets on an exchange? Now I am starting to withdraw my assets and just keep em safe at my own wallet. These folks really know what to do with our money, it is really safer not to put it on exchange.

[SMOKEU]

if bitcoin price is yes, but i think the bitcoin itself no.. exchanges and whales are the one manipulating the price..its difficult when whales start to play their money, small investors are the ones suffering

[eaLiTy]

Gold is hardcore manipulated, a big part of it is done with naked shorts. At least that's not possible with BTC, if I see it clearly.

The question is if we should be concerned about JP Morgan ever taking over BTC like they have taken over silver and gold and controlling it.

Everyone is aware of the fact that inside trading is seen as a crime in the regulated market, be it stock trading or metal or any other derivatives, but bitcoin  being a new market and there is no regulation regarding that, expect these sort of inside trading and other manipulation in the market by big shots or financial institutions who can shell out big amounts just for their benefit.

[kingpin4321]

Although whales(those that purchase coins in huge quantity) can have an effect on the prices of coins they hold. External bodies can't manipulate it the way Wall Street is