Bitcoin is not a currency and should not be considered as one.

[pbody]

This topic makes no sense to me. How you define currency?

currency definition (Webster):
a :  circulation as a medium of exchange
b :  general use, acceptance, or prevalence <a story gaining currency>
c :  something (as coins, treasury notes, and banknotes) that is in circulation as a medium of exchange
d :  paper money in circulation
e :  a common article for bartering
f :  a medium of verbal or intellectual expression

Anything with value essentially is a currency. So you're saying bitcoin should have no value?

[Ilanoh]

Transaction cost will happen.

Since the difficulty to validate a transaction increase so much, the mining cost will eventually increase.


For example if you buy 1THash today you still make profit. But if you buy it in April2014 at 5000$, if BTC stays at around 1000$ with no transaction cost, you will never break even. I guess miners won't ever sell new bitcoins under a break even price, and if the market doesn't go in the up direction, transaction cost will have to be setup.

I'm not sure about the hardware price, but I think you can get 1Thash for 5000$, if it's a different price, juste put the right price in the sentence, I used to have calculated it.

In regard to the currency, I emphasize, it should not be considered as a currency for common goods and services. But a currency for $, euros etc.

According to aristotle, a currency has 3 fonctions, unity of count, value reserve, medium of exchange. In this view yes it's a currency.

[BCB]

I will never declare to any gov that I own bitcoin that's for sure!

And when I cashout, if I'm asked, I will just say that I sold, cryptographic private keys, that were valuable to some random people, for research or any kind of stuff, to unlock stuff with it.

If they still want to tax it, I would direct myself to banks in Swiss or something like that.


Exactly I see bitcoin like SWIFT in a certain way, but not exactly.

Ilanoh,  I understand the sentiment but that is a very naive attitude.  

1.  You've just stated that you intend to commit a crime (in any jurisdiction with taxation laws) on a public forum.

2.  Your explanation does not hold water.  If you are located in the US the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network has already issued guidance that virtual currencies are legally considered "other value that substitutes for currency" which makes it use and transmission subject to a host of financial service laws and regulations including civil and criminal prosecution.

3.  Even if you are not in the US, DreadPirateRoberts and his administrates and users and sellers thought their bitcoins were safe from from the long arm of the law and that proved to be an incorrect assumption.

4. While I'm not aware of many taxation rulings outside the US when these rulings are put in place again you would become subject to civil and criminal fines and penalties buy trying to evade them.

I'm not saying that is right or wrong.  I'm just stating the facts.  

(ok begin the personal attacks!)

[BCB]

This topic makes no sense to me. How you define currency?

currency definition (Webster):
a :  circulation as a medium of exchange
b :  general use, acceptance, or prevalence <a story gaining currency>
c :  something (as coins, treasury notes, and banknotes) that is in circulation as a medium of exchange
d :  paper money in circulation
e :  a common article for bartering
f :  a medium of verbal or intellectual expression

Anything with value essentially is a currency. So you're saying bitcoin should have no value?

pbody

The word "currency" implies  it is currently in use as a medium of exchange.  And a medium of exchange is what ever two people agree has value to them.  Whether it is eggs, oil or bitcoin.

A lot of people value bitcoin.  A lot of people use them to trade and/or buy things.  There for bitcoin is a currency.

Now whether or not it is a good or bad currency, only time will tell, regardless of what all the talking heads say.

Right before the big asteroid  his the earth.  All the dinosaurs where sitting around saying "This is fucking great!  We rule the world"  They never knew what hit them.

[Bitcoinpro]

This topic makes no sense to me. How you define currency?

currency definition (Webster):
a :  circulation as a medium of exchange
b :  general use, acceptance, or prevalence <a story gaining currency>
c :  something (as coins, treasury notes, and banknotes) that is in circulation as a medium of exchange
d :  paper money in circulation
e :  a common article for bartering
f :  a medium of verbal or intellectual expression

Anything with value essentially is a currency. So you're saying bitcoin should have no value?

pbody

The work "currency" implies  it is currently in use as a medium of exchange.  And a medium of exchange is what every two people agree up has value to them.  Weather it is eggs, oil or bitcoin.

A lot of people value bitcoin.  A lot of people use them to trade and/or buy things.  There for bitcoin is a currency.

Now whether or not it is a good or bad currency, only time will tell, regardless of what all the talking heads say.

Right before the big asteroid  his the earth.  All the dinosaurs where sitting around saying "This is fucking great!  We rule the world"  They never knew what hit them.

Its a delusional kind of thread, much Dystopia can been seen by a section of posters on this forum, not sure whether they are thinking seriously or have a motive, hard logic says they must be motivated by something. Not every post one makes has to be in a positive light though also facts should be considered before making statements. We all know that Crypto's could have security issues and wat not but that dosn't make them not a currency  

[Ilanoh]

I'm an european, my country signed the Rome Treaty. I'm free to move, me as a person and my capital, wherever it is the best for me, if my country isn't giving me a great environment compared to another. 

[skivrmt]

I'm an european, my country signed the Rome Treaty. I'm free to move, me as a person and my capital, wherever it is the best for me, if my country isn't giving me a great environment compared to another. 

People forget that's how the United States basically got started.  The Federal Gov had very little control.  Each state ran its own finances and people were free to move from one state to the next.  91 years ago the Federal Gov decided they had the authority to tax income and passed the 16th amendment.  Little by little over the years since 1912-1913, states rights have been taking away by the Federal Gov.  The constitution gave the states more of the rights.

[BCB]

I'm an european, my country signed the Rome Treaty. I'm free to move, me as a person and my capital, wherever it is the best for me, if my country isn't giving me a great environment compared to another. 

I'm not familiar with Rome Treaty.

[kayim999]

If Bitcoin is not a currency then what is it?

* It has a current set value against other currencies/cryptocoins
* It has value
* You can buy goods with it/sell it for other currencies
* It is obtained by working (mining)
* Any other currency type quality to be added here...

Regarding the tax situation - at some point this will be implemented by governments if they can work out how to track the transactions and identify back to the owner.

[quone17]

I could see bitcoin as a currency but more like a compliment to the dollar. If it was easier to convert dollars to BTC this would be more likely. I could also see it as a a store of value like gold. I don't think there's any way to make the market decide is there?

[skivrmt]

I could see bitcoin as a currency but more like a compliment to the dollar. If it was easier to convert dollars to BTC this would be more likely. I could also see it as a a store of value like gold. I don't think there's any way to make the market decide is there?

I agree completely.  The free markets will decide what Bitcoin is, not me, not you, not this forum.  In due time if and when Bitcoin becomes more mainstream, I think it'll be used as a store of value/medium like gold.  But I also see if being used as currency.  It won't ever replace the dollar, Euro, Yen, etc.  I think people are overly optimistic if they think this.  But if all goes will it'll be another form of value and currency and will compliment it.

[Kenshin]

Bitcoin is a currency. It is listed in many investment magazine and classed it under currency.

[Ilanoh]

Taxing bitcoin should not be possible.

Why do government do taxes.

Because they have to pay for stuff they deliver for free to you.

For ex in France we are heavily taxed because we do not have to pay for health services.

States, guarantee the value of your money, so it's like money is a state property, so state has right to tax you.

But considering bitcoin, state does not have any rights on it, states doesn't guarantee any bitcoins.

So states doesn't have a right on it, so states cannot tax you for it.

[htspringer]

I could see bitcoin as a currency but more like a compliment to the dollar. If it was easier to convert dollars to BTC this would be more likely. I could also see it as a a store of value like gold. I don't think there's any way to make the market decide is there?

I see bitcoin as digital gold. Gold is, as you say, a store of value more than a curency.

[Kungfucheez]

I could see bitcoin as a currency but more like a compliment to the dollar. If it was easier to convert dollars to BTC this would be more likely. I could also see it as a a store of value like gold. I don't think there's any way to make the market decide is there?

I see bitcoin as digital gold. Gold is, as you say, a store of value more than a curency.

I agree. I think bitcoin is better defined as a commodity, not a currency. But still has the same properties as other currencies. Currency is a pretty broad term, so it could technically be classified as both I guess. So who knows lol

I suppose semantics aren't as important here unless you really want them to.

I could see bitcoin as a currency but more like a compliment to the dollar. If it was easier to convert dollars to BTC this would be more likely. I could also see it as a a store of value like gold. I don't think there's any way to make the market decide is there?

Agreed, only time will tell for sure. I mean, people are buying and selling things with btc, so there is that and there's no denying that. I suppose wither you view btc as a currency or a commodity is highly irrelevant in most peoples case. 

[Kungfucheez]

I'm an european, my country signed the Rome Treaty. I'm free to move, me as a person and my capital, wherever it is the best for me, if my country isn't giving me a great environment compared to another. 

We in the United States share that same privilege I hope you realize. I would expect most humans on earth share that same privilege too

[billyjoeallen]

Ooh, a post by a Keynesian telling us all why Bitcoin isn't money. I'll make sure to pay lots of attention to this one.

I LOLed.  Well, I'm an Austrian and I actually agree that bitcoin isn't money...yet. Bitcoin is a virtual commodity with the potential to become money. It has to be more than a store of value and a medium of exchange. It has to be the MOST liquid commodity, the one thing people accept in trade more than any other. it needs to become more valuable and less volatile to actually become money.  I think this has a reasonable chance of happening because of speculators.

Good speculators buy low, sell high, decrease volatility of the market, make profits and continue speculating. Poor speculators buy high, sell low, increase volatility, loose money and quit the game. Over time, the incentives cause the market to become less volatile and that has actually occurred so far. This last "bubble" was proportionally about half the size of the one before it in April 2013, which was in turn less than half the size of the 2011 bubble. Bitcoin will replace gold before it will replace fiat.

[Ilanoh]

In about 4 days difficulty will increase by 25% can we expect an adjusted to cost/difficulty increase in the bitcoin price? Because we can see that graphs have quite the same form (difficulty and btc price).

I begin to work on a platform for Venezuela and bolivars, if someone want to think about it with me, I have all kind of connection around the world that can be useful.

Liquidity is the key I agree with you billy, I have some ideas on how to create liquidity also.

One way for a financial market to be crises-free is to cancel the huge factor: fear of future liquidity shock.

That is we need to guarantee liquidity in every situation possible.