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Author Topic: Gox is Goxxin!  (Read 3531 times)
proudhon
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August 30, 2011, 01:22:51 PM
 #21

The Sierra Charts feed is all weird.  It's like it's recycling the same trades over and over again, but the last price from my Sierra Chart feed is 8.78 and the last price on MtGox.com is 8.89.
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"Cut Your Loose"


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August 30, 2011, 06:29:08 PM
 #22

The joys of MtGox in a single day.


"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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August 30, 2011, 09:09:44 PM
 #23

The joys of MtGox in a single day.

When the big guy's here there's a cheap algorithmic lab going on bitcoin, it's gonna be the rally of a millennium! Cheesy

That chart sure is purrty!
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August 31, 2011, 04:48:23 PM
 #24

Boston shuffler, son!

So basically anybody with enough money and bitcoins can get a bot and manipulate the market to their advantage, profit, and fuck the majority of other traders out there..  Cool.


I honestly think bitcoin is too small for bots.  I don't think bots should be allowed, and I think it would be advantageous to come up with a better method of determining a bitcoin's value and not solely base it on how much danny day trader and his bot want to buy/sell at today.
Piper67
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August 31, 2011, 05:09:32 PM
 #25

Boston shuffler, son!

So basically anybody with enough money and bitcoins can get a bot and manipulate the market to their advantage, profit, and fuck the majority of other traders out there..  Cool.


I honestly think bitcoin is too small for bots.  I don't think bots should be allowed, and I think it would be advantageous to come up with a better method of determining a bitcoin's value and not solely base it on how much danny day trader and his bot want to buy/sell at today.

It will take the cooperation of the exchanges to do anything about it. If they would just add fees to order cancellations over a certain daily amount...


Yup, all it would take is a little fee.
tacotime
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August 31, 2011, 05:51:30 PM
 #26

Boston shuffler, son!

So basically anybody with enough money and bitcoins can get a bot and manipulate the market to their advantage, profit, and fuck the majority of other traders out there..  Cool.


I honestly think bitcoin is too small for bots.  I don't think bots should be allowed, and I think it would be advantageous to come up with a better method of determining a bitcoin's value and not solely base it on how much danny day trader and his bot want to buy/sell at today.

The bot involvement is what makes bitcoin part of the currency of the future, as pretty much anyone can make a bot to compete with someone else's bot.  You can easily lose your money too with HFT, as has been shown in the 2008 crash.

If bitcoin lasts more than a couple years, we'll see interesting things: Artificial intelligence algorithms applied to the market...

As long as you can recognize someone else's pattern, you can program something yourself to take full advantage of it (and knock off the other player).

Aside from that: If you don't like HFT or retarded fake walls, start your own exchange and limit transactions to one every five minutes and hide all the bids/asks

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
YoYa
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August 31, 2011, 06:06:28 PM
 #27

Boston shuffler, son!

So basically anybody with enough money and bitcoins can get a bot and manipulate the market to their advantage, profit, and fuck the majority of other traders out there..  Cool.


I honestly think bitcoin is too small for bots.  I don't think bots should be allowed, and I think it would be advantageous to come up with a better method of determining a bitcoin's value and not solely base it on how much danny day trader and his bot want to buy/sell at today.

It will take the cooperation of the exchanges to do anything about it. If they would just add fees to order cancellations over a certain daily amount...


Yup, all it would take is a little fee.

Ticket raised Smiley

Tacotime, you're right, but for the moment allowing your market to be obliterated by individuals will keep other investors away.....no investors....no market to be kept free in the first place.

As for other exchanges....as long as Gox is the gold standard in the early days, BTC's development overall is tied in to it for good or bad, we are free to go to other exchanges(who are nowhere near as liquid and quite shit tbh), but if Gox don't protect this as a fledgling market, at best it will take longer to develop, at worst it will deplete confidence.
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August 31, 2011, 06:16:03 PM
 #28

I agree with chodpaba.

Transparency in the order book is not the issue.

It is the overall professionalism and proactivity of the big exchanges that is not (yet) keeping up with the development.

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kjj
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September 01, 2011, 02:50:48 AM
 #29

I'm always curious when I read these threads.  Exactly how would bots be prevented?

Does the existence of things like curl, or various schemes for breaking CAPTCHAs change your plan at all?

Are you at all bothered that banning bots (and enforcing the ban!) would mostly hurt legitimate vendors that need to hedge their exposure so they can continue to operate?  Or that the big traders will have the resources to most easily bypass whatever scheme you suggest?

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RyNinDaCleM
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September 02, 2011, 07:29:05 AM
 #30

Exactly how would bots be prevented?
Eliminate the API's!

kjj
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September 02, 2011, 01:04:25 PM
 #31

Exactly how would bots be prevented?
Eliminate the API's!

You don't think I can write a bot that submits orders through the same website that humans use?  HTML is very easy to parse and interpret.

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nmat
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September 02, 2011, 01:56:59 PM
 #32

HTML is very easy to parse and interpret.

That is actually not true Wink But you have a point. It is possible for bots to act even without APIs. I believe that the only way to prevent bot abuse would be to introduce some fees/time interval for cancelling orders or something like that. If that is a good idea or not, I don't know. Aren't forex/stock markets full of bots too?
arnoldrimmer
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September 02, 2011, 03:16:43 PM
 #33

How is the BTC exchange rate calculated?? anyway
kjj
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September 02, 2011, 05:00:21 PM
 #34

HTML is very easy to parse and interpret.

That is actually not true Wink But you have a point. It is possible for bots to act even without APIs. I believe that the only way to prevent bot abuse would be to introduce some fees/time interval for cancelling orders or something like that. If that is a good idea or not, I don't know. Aren't forex/stock markets full of bots too?

Yeah, if you are new to regex, you shouldn't be trying to parse general HTML with it, but you can generally get away with parsing specific HTML from a given site.  Or, you know, use any of the many tools that will parse HTML for you and give you a nested object with all of the elements, tags and attributes.

If your opponent is actively trying to deny you, you might need to also parse javascript, or even write a javascript simulator.  You might also need to break CAPTCHAs, which isn't hard, because if they get too difficult, they start acting in reverse, where getting it wrong suggests a higher probability that the user is human and getting it right suggests a computer.

Doing it with time or fees actually backfires, because it just means that the spread will be wider and the market less liquid.

I have no objection to fees to account for the load on the servers, or to gently discourage certain practices that lead to excessive loads.  But in general, the people that are against bots are either fighting the wrong thing (they think the depths charts are meaningful), or they are pushing for the wrong solution (they couldn't log in because some server was over loaded).

p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
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