Why are people drawn to GHash.io, and how can we reverse it?

[Cubic Earth]

If any pool had the ease of use of bitminter, with the lowest fees, and would advertise with mining manufacturers as the "go to place" it would take over.

What I'm looking for in order:

1. Ease of use
2. Consistent payouts (Larger the pool the more consisten.. You get larger by advertising you ease of use)
3. Fees (Some pools are 1%, that's cheap to me. So paying it over 0 isn't that big of deal)

Unfortunately for Bitcoin, I am afraid that many people share your priorities.  Bitcoin can tolerate masses of it's users being greedy, but it may have a harder time weathering masses of short-sighted, irrational investors.  Mining bitcoins has been a losing investment in terms of BTC for most smaller players, yet the fact that people still irrationally gravitate towards it as a good investment helps to keep it that way.  Rational investors just need to steer clear of markets at which the uninformed masses are blindly throwing their money.  But that is just the investment side of mining.

People might still be wiling to mine at a loss in BTC terms, (though hopefully still profitable in fiat), for the sake of securing the network, to guard against double spends, empty blocks, and centrailization in general.  To those people we all owe our gratitude.  They are still being greedy though, as they want to protect the value of their bitcoin holdings in the long term.  It is far-sighted, long term greed.

Bitcoin is dependent on people caring about decentralization, especially its investors.  hyphymikey, your priorities did not include supporting well-being of the network.  Would you prefer a pool that returned 100% because of no fees, an extra 5% payout from double-spend proceeds, and 5% on top of that just because the pool wants to encourage you to stay with them?  The ignorance of miners is bitcoins biggest weakness.  Such a pool is a valid attack vector on the protocol, and it is enabled by short-sighted, ill-informed 'hashers'.  It would be the cheapest and easiest way for the government to attack bitcoin.

Start pool and hire the best people to make it slick and easy.  Payout 110% (this is subsidized, remember?  Attract the massive number of people who bought hash power to make a quick buck and don't care about Bitcoin as project.  And boom, your over 50%.  Actually, make that two seemingly different pools at 30% each.

[1714656807]

1714656807

[spooderman]

We need a benevolent DOSer to fuck Ghash.

[kokojie]

If any pool had the ease of use of bitminter, with the lowest fees, and would advertise with mining manufacturers as the "go to place" it would take over.

What I'm looking for in order:

1. Ease of use
2. Consistent payouts (Larger the pool the more consisten.. You get larger by advertising you ease of use)
3. Fees (Some pools are 1%, that's cheap to me. So paying it over 0 isn't that big of deal)

What's wrong with bitminter itself?

[Kenshin]

GHash.io does have something other pools don't have. You are merge mining NMC, DVC, IXC and BTC at the same time.

I was with Bitminter, and after discovering the additional merge mining. I switched to GHash.io.

[sturle]

GHash.io does have something other pools don't have. You are merge mining NMC, DVC, IXC and BTC at the same time.

I was with Bitminter, and after discovering the additional merge mining. I switched to GHash.io.

Bitparking does all of the above and I0C as well.  Last time I checked DVC, IXC and I0Cwere completely worthless.  Probably 51'd by GHash.io already.

[Kenshin]

GHash.io does have something other pools don't have. You are merge mining NMC, DVC, IXC and BTC at the same time.

I was with Bitminter, and after discovering the additional merge mining. I switched to GHash.io.

Bitparking does all of the above and I0C as well.  Last time I checked DVC, IXC and I0Cwere completely worthless.  Probably 51'd by GHash.io already.

I didn't like the look of the Bitparking site. Also GHash looks more professional.

[kokojie]

GHash.io does have something other pools don't have. You are merge mining NMC, DVC, IXC and BTC at the same time.

I was with Bitminter, and after discovering the additional merge mining. I switched to GHash.io.

Only NMC has value, and Bitminter already has it. DVC and IXC nearly has no value, together they add 0.16% extra to your mining income.

0.16% extra income is worth the possibility of 51% attack on Bitcoin?

[Cubic Earth]

0.16% extra income is worth the possibility of 51% attack on Bitcoin?

Maybe not alone, but when combined with sleek looks, yes, yes it is clearly worth it risking bitcoin over.

I think people are sending a message to the big bitcoin adversaries: Please launch a bitcoin attack pool.  Just payout 10% higher than any other pool, make sure the website is sleek and we will join!

[NorTiaN]

From a miner's perspective the main draws to ghash.io (if you own your own equip) are:

1) 0% pool fee (but orphans are not included)
2) merged mining
3) good user interface with alerts for individual miners, and the ability to track detailed stats
4) stability of payout - when the pool is larger like ghash.io, there is less variance in your daily payout due to bad luck of the pool

With the small margins on mining gear, even with the run up in BTC/USD, all of the above adds up, and every extra % helps.

I suspect miners would love to point their gear at other pools, but no other pool I have seen has everything else listed above.  It is an attractive combination.

NOTE TO POOL OPERATORS: you want to compete with ghash.io, the above is what you need.

+1

[Gator-hex]

Why are people drawn to GHash.io?
Because they provide conversion of Bitcoins into fiat by selling hashing power to investors.
Investing is bad for the Bitcoin economy though, we should be replacing fiat, by spending Bitcoins into circulation.

How to stop big pools?
Needs to be done on the protocol somehow.
How about the bigger the pool the more Bitcoin dust it has to process?
If people saw they were disadvantaged on bigger pools they'd be more inclined to switch to smaller ones.

How to improve P2Pool?
Payment every 24hrs? When I see micro payments it puts me off. You need a lot of GH to get 0.001BTC (above dust) payouts. This is one of the highest entry barriers to mining on a pool anywhere. Still I use it as my backup pools, because it requires no account, and you get virgin unspent coins with no history.

BTW: www.p2pool.org is not the only option. Also check out http://p2pool.hostv.pl/ for a list of others.

[dyask]

GHash.io does have something other pools don't have. You are merge mining NMC, DVC, IXC and BTC at the same time.

I was with Bitminter, and after discovering the additional merge mining. I switched to GHash.io.

Only NMC has value, and Bitminter already has it. DVC and IXC nearly has no value, together they add 0.16% extra to your mining income.

0.16% extra income is worth the possibility of 51% attack on Bitcoin?

That should be a hypothetical 51% attack.   If some pool does cross that threshold it doesn't mean there will be such an attack.  Besides it would be a stupid crime, risk of being caught almost certain and potential gain is probably negative when the costs are factored in.  So I would have to disagree ... .16% extra income per week is a HUGE deal.   On the other hand there are probably even more advantages of being in a large pool, as you often get to unfairly start working on the new block before other pools do.   

=== OFF TOPIC NOW, just my view ===
When it come to fiat currency, identity theft costs billions, but people live with it.  I personally think bitcoin would be better off if there was a 51% attack.  It would probably survive just fine only shaking out the weak players.   After that people would actually have more respect for bitcoin knowing that it is reasonably safe.  Anyway, it simply isn't possible to have a complex system without some risks.  To me the problems with handling the keys for accessing one's wallets is a vastly larger risk than any 51% attack.