NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS

[ReserviorHunt]

I suspect manually exporting the keys would not be required, merely rescanning, and it could be triggered by a wallet version change f.i., which would then do the same as a "-rescan" option.

This needs to be tested of course, but as soon as the base coin to clone from is known, I could give it a try. Preferably something without too many customizations, so it can be cloned within a reasonable time frame 

I think the reason it was not done is that it was more work when you did not have a tool that could give you the balance of all addresses. Also noble does not have too many addresses with balance, this would be much more complicated for litecoin f.i., and quite impractical for doge or bitcoin.

Another reason is that an exchange-based swap practically guarantees coins will be lost and never swapped (all those that overlooked the swap news), and I suppose at least some coin devs had that in mind.
Speaking of which, an exchange-based swap destroys anonymity, as the exchange knows your email and IPs (and may leak these unwillingly if hacked or seized at a later time)

About the division by ten, another good reason would be to get away from not just the satoshi value, but also the integer 64 overflow and floating point precision issues. Dividing by 100 or 1000 could also make sense.

So dev abandoned the ship and this is a community takeover attempt?

Cool whats the plan

I want to make it clear I specifically stated the NOXT cycle, roadmap and updates in this thread were my primary focus while I took a breather from NOBL under revised leadership. That is all I'll say until the gold/silver licensing, market trade and business/investment updates come.

Rofo's just taking break from nobl and focusing on NOXT. Little has changed, we are all just more aware of what it takes to do a start up.

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[glavos]

We need a graphic designer for a new wallet. Can you help with that? If not do you know someone who is talented and would like to help?

Feel free to answer here or PM myself.

Thanks!

I could help out with that; can you provide more info?

However I'm pretty busy ATM, so I'm wondering how urgent is that request?

Maybe I can help with that.

[systh]

We need a graphic designer for a new wallet. Can you help with that? If not do you know someone who is talented and would like to help?

Feel free to answer here or PM myself.

Thanks!

I could help out with that; can you provide more info?

However I'm pretty busy ATM, so I'm wondering how urgent is that request?

We will need someone like yourself when the wallet is ready. Right now we are brainstorming several possible ways to get it done.

Do you know when you are going to have some time to work on such a project?

Not sure yet, but I'm guessing in about a month in the worst case.

[ReserviorHunt]

We need a graphic designer for a new wallet. Can you help with that? If not do you know someone who is talented and would like to help?

Feel free to answer here or PM myself.

Thanks!

I could help out with that; can you provide more info?

However I'm pretty busy ATM, so I'm wondering how urgent is that request?

We will need someone like yourself when the wallet is ready. Right now we are brainstorming several possible ways to get it done.

Do you know when you are going to have some time to work on such a project?

Not sure yet, but I'm guessing in about a month in the worst case.

Join us #Noblecoin on freenode irc

We can talk things out further.

[NorrisK]

How is the team coming together?

[eagleflies]

I have started working on a PoS wallet for Noblecoin. This is just the very beginning so please do not expect miracles anytime soon.

However I would like to ask everyone on this thread what is your opinion on PoS parameters which should be chosen. Feel free to elaborate why you think those are best for us. Maybe someone did research into PoS parameters and would like to share results? I would love to hear that!

[kresu]

Post-Scriptum on the PoS premine distribution:

I just looked: currently 14417 noble addresses hold funds, so a 1:1 distribution with 10 outputs per tx would take a 1442 lines scripts.

No particular coding would be needed: the script would just be a list of "noblecoind sendmany" commands, to be run on the wallet of the premine. Remaining premine coins could then be burned or whatever.

As a bonus, the distribution of the premine would be in the clear, in the blockchain, rather than in an exchange's private database.

Not saying it's the best option, just saying it's an option you can have for "free".

I like this idea very much.

I checked the numbers:
- We are at 1.881 bln NOBL right now, after burning:
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/nobl/#@inflation

- With 7.2 mln NOBL being mined every day we will reach 2 bln again in 16.5 days (about Jan 28th/29th). If we manage to have running PoS wallet by then, it would be perfect, i think. IMO it would be the best moment to stop the PoW constant supply, which is mostly dumped instantly at marker by Lifeforce, Wafflepool etc. Next "round" number. 2.1 bln, we will reach in about 30 days. I think that a round number is a good number to cut the PoW mining.

Another thing to consider: I think that staying in 1-digit satoshi price range is never good for a coin. Why? Because with X sat every even smallest price change (from 6 to 7 satoshi for example) has to be always more than 10% (from 6 to 7 sat it's 16.6%) — so it's more difficult to find a "fair" price, because there is nothing inbetween.

That's why i think we should not use 1:1 distribution, but for example 10:1.

[kresu]

I have started working on a PoS wallet for Noblecoin. This is just the very beginning so please do not expect miracles anytime soon.

However I would like to ask everyone on this thread what is your opinion on PoS parameters which should be chosen. Feel free to elaborate why you think those are best for us. Maybe someone did research into PoS parameters and would like to share results? I would love to hear that!

1. I think we should have very moderate to small inflation rate at PoS stage. No "High PoS".
With PoW, when calculated year-to-year starting from now (1.8 bln + another 2.6 bln in 365 days), the PoW inflation now is 144%.
For PoS, in my opinion maybe 5%-10% a year would be good. The highest PoS coins have seen a big hype (see HYP), but then the fall is very dramatic, because of the enormous supply.

2. I think we can make a transition to PoS at a "round number" like 2.0 or 2.1 bln NOBL (depending when will we manage to have a running PoS wallet)/

3. I think we should distribute new PoS NOBLes using the fairglu'd automated script method on some clone of 100% premined PoS coin.

4. IMO it would be good to divide the money units (coins) in circulation by 5 or 10 to avoid 1-digit satoshi price range (Ratio 5:1 or 10:1. In this scenario, 1 mln old NOBL would equal 200k or 100k of new PoS NOBL, distributed evenly to all existing addresses, redeemable at any time in the future from your old wallet.dat).

[ReserviorHunt]

I have started working on a PoS wallet for Noblecoin. This is just the very beginning so please do not expect miracles anytime soon.

However I would like to ask everyone on this thread what is your opinion on PoS parameters which should be chosen. Feel free to elaborate why you think those are best for us. Maybe someone did research into PoS parameters and would like to share results? I would love to hear that!

1. I think we should have very moderate to small inflation rate at PoS stage. No "High PoS".
With PoW, when calculated year-to-year starting from now (1.8 bln + another 2.6 bln in 365 days), the PoW inflation now is 144%.
For PoS, in my opinion maybe 5%-10% a year would be good. The highest PoS coins have seen a big hype (see HYP), but then the fall is very dramatic, because of the enormous supply.

2. I think we can make a transition to PoS at a "round number" like 2.0 or 2.1 bln NOBL (depending when will we manage to have a running PoS wallet)/

3. I think we should distribute new PoS NOBLes using the fairglu'd automated script method on some clone of 100% premined PoS coin.

4. IMO it would be good to divide the money units (coins) in circulation by 5 or 10 to avoid 1-digit satoshi price range (Ratio 5:1 or 10:1. In this scenario, 1 mln old NOBL would equal 200k or 100k of new PoS NOBL, distributed evenly to all existing addresses, redeemable at any time in the future from your old wallet.dat).

I agree with 5-10%. No high pos.

Just keep the stake rates steady along that line.

I personally believe 5% to be more then enough. We are going for a good, professional crypto currency here. 5% is more then plenty for inflation.

[whylieaboutcake]

I have started working on a PoS wallet for Noblecoin. This is just the very beginning so please do not expect miracles anytime soon.

However I would like to ask everyone on this thread what is your opinion on PoS parameters which should be chosen. Feel free to elaborate why you think those are best for us. Maybe someone did research into PoS parameters and would like to share results? I would love to hear that!

1. I think we should have very moderate to small inflation rate at PoS stage. No "High PoS".
With PoW, when calculated year-to-year starting from now (1.8 bln + another 2.6 bln in 365 days), the PoW inflation now is 144%.
For PoS, in my opinion maybe 5%-10% a year would be good. The highest PoS coins have seen a big hype (see HYP), but then the fall is very dramatic, because of the enormous supply.

2. I think we can make a transition to PoS at a "round number" like 2.0 or 2.1 bln NOBL (depending when will we manage to have a running PoS wallet)/

3. I think we should distribute new PoS NOBLes using the fairglu'd automated script method on some clone of 100% premined PoS coin.

4. IMO it would be good to divide the money units (coins) in circulation by 5 or 10 to avoid 1-digit satoshi price range (Ratio 5:1 or 10:1. In this scenario, 1 mln old NOBL would equal 200k or 100k of new PoS NOBL, distributed evenly to all existing addresses, redeemable at any time in the future from your old wallet.dat).

How would this distribution method work for the coins held by exchanges? I suppose they would need to know in advance to expect new coins and what the ratio would be.

[NorrisK]

guys, I just got an answer from Joe, the dev of Coin Magi, who is willing to help. He developed a PoS II which seems to be far better and safer!

Here you can find some info about Magi and it's PoS II: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.0

Pls discuss this option! I will be back in some hours

Sounds interesting. Be careful not to have too many people working on a pos fork now, otherwise you may end up with several wallets and disappointed helping hands.

[fairglu]

guys, I just got an answer from Joe, the dev of Coin Magi, who is willing to help. He developed a PoS II which seems to be far better and safer!

Here you can find some info about Magi and it's PoS II: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.0

Pls discuss this option! I will be back in some hours

That would be a good news, been discussing PoS issues with Joe a bit in the last weeks/months, and what he's doing goes in the right direction IMHO.

The issue with "normal" PoS is that if you do not have a lot of wallets staking 24/7 with lots of funds, the network is at a risk of forks when a "whale" comes online once in a while with poor connectivity, and thus can extract a lot of blocks successfully very fast (as diff will be low), and those blocks may not propagate fast enough, which will result in a fork.

I will make and post a distribution script (from current balances) so people can test/check if that works.

[james6546]

I have started working on a PoS wallet for Noblecoin. This is just the very beginning so please do not expect miracles anytime soon.

However I would like to ask everyone on this thread what is your opinion on PoS parameters which should be chosen. Feel free to elaborate why you think those are best for us. Maybe someone did research into PoS parameters and would like to share results? I would love to hear that!

1. I think we should have very moderate to small inflation rate at PoS stage. No "High PoS".
With PoW, when calculated year-to-year starting from now (1.8 bln + another 2.6 bln in 365 days), the PoW inflation now is 144%.
For PoS, in my opinion maybe 5%-10% a year would be good. The highest PoS coins have seen a big hype (see HYP), but then the fall is very dramatic, because of the enormous supply.

2. I think we can make a transition to PoS at a "round number" like 2.0 or 2.1 bln NOBL (depending when will we manage to have a running PoS wallet)/

3. I think we should distribute new PoS NOBLes using the fairglu'd automated script method on some clone of 100% premined PoS coin.

4. IMO it would be good to divide the money units (coins) in circulation by 5 or 10 to avoid 1-digit satoshi price range (Ratio 5:1 or 10:1. In this scenario, 1 mln old NOBL would equal 200k or 100k of new PoS NOBL, distributed evenly to all existing addresses, redeemable at any time in the future from your old wallet.dat).

I agree with 5-10%. No high pos.

Just keep the stake rates steady along that line.

I personally believe 5% to be more then enough. We are going for a good, professional crypto currency here. 5% is more then plenty for inflation.

I think slightly higher. At 5% it isn't worth leaving a computer on staking IMO.

I think rofo decided on 12% from what I can remember.

[fairglu]

Distribution script for testing:

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/nobl/noble.distrib.txt

(based on current balances, I can easily regenerate at later time for any block height, divide the amounts, etc.)

[sid7039]

guys, I just got an answer from Joe, the dev of Coin Magi, who is willing to help. He developed a PoS II which seems to be far better and safer!

Here you can find some info about Magi and it's PoS II: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.0

Pls discuss this option! I will be back in some hours

Wow, Coin Magi is helping NOBL! It's good because they have introduced interresting innovations with Magi.

[eagleflies]

Let's gather PoS related ideas which were proposed so far:

1. [voephilis] Use PoS parameters which were considered in Oct. Interest rate starts at 100% then is being lowered several times until it reaches 1%.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=402667.msg9096942#msg9096942
2. [Boreiv, kresuk] Use same PoS parameters which Rofo considered recently with interest rate 5-10%
3. [fairglu] Switch to PoS without using an exchange.
4. [kresuk] Use swap rate of 5:1 or 10:1 e.g. for 5/10 current coins people get 1 new "pos" coin. 
5. [voephilisI] Joe, the dev of Coin Magi is willing to help. His message: "I can experiment the hybrid PoW/PoS like XMG, but it's also fine with the pure PoS; I strongly recommend XMG's PoS-II, it's more safe compared to the implementation of PoS 2.0 by blackcoin and much more network activities triggered by PoS-II comparing with the PoSV of REDD as it advertised. Feel free to let me know what I can do."

Here's my $.02 on each:
[1] Looks good to me. We are already close to 2 billions coins so the 100% interest rate would be working just at the very beginning. This could work by attracting people to stake just after the switch and at least some of them will continue to do so even with lower interest rate. Also bear in mind that interest rate is not the only PoS parameter available. We could also cap max reward per block.
[2] I think 5% is too low. 10% is OK. The problem may be to find people interested in keeping their wallets open all the time which is important since this is how the network is secured in PoS.
[3] This is interesting because we can do the switch without relying on external parties. Also decide freely what swap rate to choose and so on. However if we follow this route there will be two noblecoins in existence. So in fact we will still need to talk with exchanges either to de-list the old noblecoin or ask them to add new noblecoin-pos.
[4] The idea of having less coins is to push the price higher hoping that with swap rate 10:1 price also goes 10 times higher e.g. to 70 SAT now. However there is risk people who are not actively looking at Noble will treat increase in price as pump and in the end price may end up lower than 10 times higher. So in the end market cap of Noble may go down.
[5] This is most revolutionary idea. Switch to new version of PoS potentially avoiding some pitfalls related to the well known PoS which is used by many coins. This sounds good. However by choosing this path we change drastically Noblecoin's image. What I mean by this is Rofo chose 'stable yet boring route' and this attracted all of us here. This is what usually people in traditional finance like. To have something you can rely on even if it produces lower returns. I am not sure if making such a bold move would be good long term. There is much higher risk that hard fork will be needed if serious issues are found in the new PoS code. Short term it should be good as it is always easier to advertise bold moves in crypto world.

Please share your thoughts. At this point I do not like [4] but would like to further discuss remaining points.

[sorrros]

I have started working on a PoS wallet for Noblecoin. This is just the very beginning so please do not expect miracles anytime soon.

However I would like to ask everyone on this thread what is your opinion on PoS parameters which should be chosen. Feel free to elaborate why you think those are best for us. Maybe someone did research into PoS parameters and would like to share results? I would love to hear that!

1. I think we should have very moderate to small inflation rate at PoS stage. No "High PoS".
With PoW, when calculated year-to-year starting from now (1.8 bln + another 2.6 bln in 365 days), the PoW inflation now is 144%.
For PoS, in my opinion maybe 5%-10% a year would be good. The highest PoS coins have seen a big hype (see HYP), but then the fall is very dramatic, because of the enormous supply.

2. I think we can make a transition to PoS at a "round number" like 2.0 or 2.1 bln NOBL (depending when will we manage to have a running PoS wallet)/

3. I think we should distribute new PoS NOBLes using the fairglu'd automated script method on some clone of 100% premined PoS coin.

4. IMO it would be good to divide the money units (coins) in circulation by 5 or 10 to avoid 1-digit satoshi price range (Ratio 5:1 or 10:1. In this scenario, 1 mln old NOBL would equal 200k or 100k of new PoS NOBL, distributed evenly to all existing addresses, redeemable at any time in the future from your old wallet.dat).

I agree with 5-10%. No high pos.

Just keep the stake rates steady along that line.

I personally believe 5% to be more then enough. We are going for a good, professional crypto currency here. 5% is more then plenty for inflation.

I think slightly higher. At 5% it isn't worth leaving a computer on staking IMO.

I think rofo decided on 12% from what I can remember.

Indeed 5% seems too low to effectively secure the network. 12% better, and possibly even a bit higher (i.e. 20% - 30% range); in the short term network security (staking) is more important than inflation.

Also pls consider a system of constant amount of coins like Ethereum so that inflation decreases over time (as opposed to constant inflation, which is the case with a constant POS rate, even if it's low...).

[fairglu]

Please share your thoughts. At this point I do not like [4] but would like to further discuss remaining points.

Thanks for the summary!

To have people staking, the max stake age and max stake amount are important, i.e you want to reward someone leaving a wallet with 100 coins 24/7 probably more than someone with 10000 coins that stakes once per month: the first will actively defend and support the network, the second may put it at risk. Under PoS, stakers replace miners, it should be worth it staking even if you are not super-rich.

Joe is trying to achieve secure PoS with Magi, it's not simple, you have to balance security with incentive and everything, and there is no magic bullet, but it's a goal worth achieving IMHO.

For 3, keeping a portion of PoW, at least initially would help, if the miners/pools follow, the consensus on the new chain will be easier to achieve.

Yes 4 has risks associated with it, and being a "penny stock" also has risks. Another area where there is no magic bullet.

And finally about the 100% PoS initially, this might be complicated once you factor compound interest, network stability issues, etc. It was discussed with coin age as a limiter (which would have skirted the previous issues), but if the old blockchain is not ported over, all coins will be "new".

That said, I'm a very minor Noble holder.

[james6546]

Thanks for the summary and thought myeagleflies.

I kind of think the new PoS tech idea might be what is needed to kick start Noble a little. I know it goes against the grain a bit, but I remember at one time we were going for a very high PoS rate, which was considered cutting edge at the time.

So option number 5 gets my vote. IMO we need something to draw attention to us and get us on the first page of coinmarketcap even if it is just temporary it will draw in some new people and hopefully investors.

[morphtrust]

@rofo

I sent you a PM to see if you are up for a discussion (voice on something like skype or I can call you at a phone number, up to you) about some tech that could help add physical support to just about any coin, however Noble would be the one in current existence I would rather support than any other honestly, from our dealings in the past you have definitely proven yourself beyond what anyone else in the industry has up till now, (not saying anyone else is not out there, just saying I have not had personal dealings with anyone myself that is as stand up as you)

you can message me here, or on skype (architct is the USER name there, and should show up as Thomas A. Anderson when searching that name) same name can be used on google+ too, just look for a guy in dark goggles and a tophat, you remember my goggles I am sure, so...

to all others, if this idea I have and tech I am working on, is brought together you can expect to see the fecal matter hit the rotary blades in the crypto-world lol.