NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS

[dida]

--- Update 2015-01-21 ---

Last couple of days I have been testing both standard PoS and PoS from Magi Coin. Joe from Magi Coin was really helpful and prepared test code for Magi Coin's PoS

What worked so far is generating premine of about 2 000 000 000 coins which will be used on new blockchain to be distributed to current owners. This way we can achieve 1:1 swap of coins. Also mining using PoW works. We need to use PoW mining at the very beginning of new blockchain to allow PoS to stabilize and start working.

What did not work - I have not seen yet any block generated using PoS. It is quite possible I need to wait longer to see it. Right now there is 193 blocks generated on Magi Coin's testnet.

---

I would like to get more data on people's preferences

--- Poll ---

1. Do you prefer typical PoS or PoS from Magi Coin? Typical PoS is better tested as it is used by more coins out there. Unfortunately this also means there is number of attacks which were researched and which are possible especially against coins with low capitalisation. Magi Coin's PoS has several enhancements which Joe developed in order to mitigate some of know PoS problems. However since code is quite new it may cause us some headaches later. On the other hand if we choose Joe's code we can probably count on much better support from him.

Another factor is if we choose typical PoS and Noble will be successfully attacked e.g. due to low number of people having wallets open we may be forced to do hard fork and to either fix our code or to switch to Magi Coin's PoS. But if we choose Magi Coin's PoS and after some time a flaw is discovered we may also be forced to do hard fork to fix it. So not an easy choice.

2. How often should blocks be generated? 60/90/120/other_value sec? All values have cons and pros. The lower value the faster blocks will be generated so transaction is quicker confirmed which is good if to pay for something at shop etc. On the other side the lower value means blockchain will be bigger and this potentially means gigabytes of data.

3. What interest yearly? Lower interest means noble looks as more stable currency e.g. PPC. However if interest is too low there is huge risk almost nobody will keep their wallets open which means it is easier to attack the coin. Some coins chose falues higher than 100% which attracted many people to staking these coins. However after some time inflation levels are too high which causes price to fall down severely. We should choose some middle ground probably.

4. Any other comments?

3. 8-10% interest yearly is enough...that is like best performing stocks

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[adam1230]

I'll go first:
1. Magi Coin PoS. I think we need to pull something slightly less normal out of the bag in order for Noble to achieve more support and growth
2. I don't really know enough about this to make a decision, in my eyes the lower values are better but would like to see what other people think.
3. 10% minimum, I would like 12%
4. If you want me to help test drop me a PM and I will see what I can set up. I think I speak for the community when I say thanks for all your effort myeagleflies

^ What he said

[NorrisK]

--- Update 2015-01-21 ---

Last couple of days I have been testing both standard PoS and PoS from Magi Coin. Joe from Magi Coin was really helpful and prepared test code for Magi Coin's PoS

What worked so far is generating premine of about 2 000 000 000 coins which will be used on new blockchain to be distributed to current owners. This way we can achieve 1:1 swap of coins. Also mining using PoW works. We need to use PoW mining at the very beginning of new blockchain to allow PoS to stabilize and start working.

What did not work - I have not seen yet any block generated using PoS. It is quite possible I need to wait longer to see it. Right now there is 193 blocks generated on Magi Coin's testnet.

---

I would like to get more data on people's preferences

--- Poll ---

1. Do you prefer typical PoS or PoS from Magi Coin? Typical PoS is better tested as it is used by more coins out there. Unfortunately this also means there is number of attacks which were researched and which are possible especially against coins with low capitalisation. Magi Coin's PoS has several enhancements which Joe developed in order to mitigate some of know PoS problems. However since code is quite new it may cause us some headaches later. On the other hand if we choose Joe's code we can probably count on much better support from him.

Another factor is if we choose typical PoS and Noble will be successfully attacked e.g. due to low number of people having wallets open we may be forced to do hard fork and to either fix our code or to switch to Magi Coin's PoS. But if we choose Magi Coin's PoS and after some time a flaw is discovered we may also be forced to do hard fork to fix it. So not an easy choice.

2. How often should blocks be generated? 60/90/120/other_value sec? All values have cons and pros. The lower value the faster blocks will be generated so transaction is quicker confirmed which is good if to pay for something at shop etc. On the other side the lower value means blockchain will be bigger and this potentially means gigabytes of data.

3. What interest yearly? Lower interest means noble looks as more stable currency e.g. PPC. However if interest is too low there is huge risk almost nobody will keep their wallets open which means it is easier to attack the coin. Some coins chose falues higher than 100% which attracted many people to staking these coins. However after some time inflation levels are too high which causes price to fall down severely. We should choose some middle ground probably.

4. Any other comments?

1. Pos II from Magi
2. I'm not into generation times, can't help here sorry.
3. 8% should be more than enough incentive to stake imo.

[fairglu]

1. Magi PoS+PoW, with an eye on merged mining in the future (with time to prepare it)
2. 90/120sec seems a sweet spot. 60 or even 30 sec is too slow for point of sale anyway, and faster chains need more confirmations to be sure everything propagated globally.
3. Same ballpark

I you want an extra testnet node or two, I can help. I can also setup a test net explorer if enough people are interested in testing to generate some transaction activity, ie. If there will be something to explore :-)

[eagleflies]

1. Magi PoS+PoW, with an eye on merged mining in the future (with time to prepare it)
2. 90/120sec seems a sweet spot. 60 or even 30 sec is too slow for point of sale anyway, and faster chains need more confirmations to be sure everything propagated globally.
3. Same ballpark

I you want an extra testnet node or two, I can help. I can also setup a test net explorer if enough people are interested in testing to generate some transaction activity, ie. If there will be something to explore :-)

I like [1] however not sure if PoS + PoW would be suitable for us. We have problems with too high inflation right now and pushing towards PoS is going to lower it substantially. IF we choose PoS + PoW route incentive must be provided for people to both stake and mine and this is trickier.

Do you have any PoS + PoW specific parameters in mind?

We are running some tests with James right now on testnet. I treat this as alpha stage. Do not think it makes sense to set up block explorer now as several versions of wallet are being tested on daily basis.

Next stage will be testing on "mainnet" when we have most of parameters right. Block explorer will be really useful then.

You can join testing now if you wish. There is even some documentation for this https://github.com/eagleflies/m-Noblecoin/blob/master/digital-ocean-testnet.md However it will be better to gather more people later at beta/gamma stage. We will also check if one can use keys from original wallet to access funds on PoS wallet.

Do you happen to use IRC? It is easier to chat about PoS parameters there.

[dida]

RIP Noblecoin, I use to like it a lot

Not the end, call it a new chapter...

A lot of other coins have been better than before by being run by the community, so rather than spreading FUD, why don't you help out and make Noble even better than before?

What FUD? Man is just honestly expressing his feelings. You talk more about MAGI then NOBLE. If you ask me YOU are the one that are FUD-ing NOBLE coin.

Penalty for larger coin holders? Have you ask your self how this will help this coin? You are on the wrong direction my friends. Plan and simple POS will do just fine. Encourage people to invest, hold and use this coin.

1. Why Invest ?
    Usability, good marketing, good will
2. Why Hold?
    Good intrest (8-10%), why not one integrated NOBL address in wallet that is directly connected to one charity, people in need, etc. (1-2% donation) and you cannot "activate" POS without it?
    .....and you can choose this address from the some list in NOBL web page....and community decides what goes on that list and what POS sum is the goal?
3. Why USE?
    All the above

[Zebedee23]

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

[james6546]

What FUD? Man is just honestly expressing his feelings. You talk more about MAGI then NOBLE. If you ask me YOU are the one that are FUD-ing NOBLE coin.
 

Eh, what have I said about Magi?!

How is saying that Noble is dead going to help anyone?

I kind of agree about the penalising large holders, I guess we could set the limit very high or something...

[fairglu]

Penalty for larger coin holders? Have you ask your self how this will help this coin? [...] Plan and simple POS will do just fine.

You are aware that on a plain & simple PoS, with "few" staking wallets, a large coin holders that stakes once in a while can put the network at risk of major forks? And especially so when staking from a home PC/laptop with poor connectivity (such as on a wifi).

There are a couple chains I host an explorer for that fork regularly because of that.

BTW I recently added Orphan blocks statistics to my explorers, find them in the network tab.

I like [1] however not sure if PoS + PoW would be suitable for us. We have problems with too high inflation right now and pushing towards PoS is going to lower it substantially. IF we choose PoS + PoW route incentive must be provided for people to both stake and mine and this is trickier.

Do you have any PoS + PoW specific parameters in mind?

Nothing specific, the PoW subsidy could be kept lower, and have a fast decline.

The idea would be to help stability during the early transition/launch period, to give PoS time.

Eventually, once merge-mining happens, the subsidy can be very low, as it becomes a "free" benefit for pool operators & miners.

Also, a part of me still doubts the intrinsic security of PoS, which can be "gamed", and needs a centralized checkpointing server, but that server becomes a point of failure, and it feels wrong to have decentralized tech rely on a centralized server :/

[Youghoor]

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

By doing that it will only lower the value of the coin.

[sid7039]

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

By doing that it will only lower the value of the coin.

The price is currently the problem only for large holders. For new users the price is low enough, can't be much lower...
This is why Magi POS could make NOBL popular for new users.

[jawitech]

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

Do you know what you are talking about? It seems you have no idea of the idea behind Magi's PoS concept. Or are you only a big coin holder with fear, someone else might get more than you?

It's NOT a penalty. The idea is to take away the advantage of a few coin holders with a huge amount and give coin holders with smaller funds a better chance. Take a look at the rich list of most coin. You'll see some huge wallets at the top, mostly the devs and a few early birds. They get way more coins via PoS than any other with PoW and PoS combined. That's an unfair advantage and, like fairglu said, a risk for potential attacks.

So in your opinion NOBL is only made for established community members already having a huge amount of coins? You don't want new people who just learned about NOBL? In this case, call it VIP only coin, use default PoS with 1000% in order to ensure established coin holders get the most and tell other people to use other coins with a fair distribution. With your thinking, NOBL with be NOTHING else than the current FIAT ecosystem. The rich ones always get richer, the poor ones always remain poor!

Or probably spend some minutes to understand a concept before stating it's BS.

[Zebedee23]

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

Do you know what you are talking about? It seems you have no idea of the idea behind Magi's PoS concept. Or are you only a big coin holder with fear, someone else might get more than you?

It's NOT a penalty. The idea is to take away the advantage of a few coin holders with a huge amount and give coin holders with smaller funds a better chance. Take a look at the rich list of most coin. You'll see some huge wallets at the top, mostly the devs and a few early birds. They get way more coins via PoS than any other with PoW and PoS combined. That's an unfair advantage and, like fairglu said, a risk for potential attacks.

So in your opinion NOBL is only made for established community members already having a huge amount of coins? You don't want new people who just learned about NOBL? In this case, call it VIP only coin, use default PoS with 1000% in order to ensure established coin holders get the most and tell other people to use other coins with a fair distribution. With your thinking, NOBL with be NOTHING else than the current FIAT ecosystem. The rich ones always get richer, the poor ones always remain poor!

Or probably spend some minutes to understand a concept before stating it's BS.

I already said im not clued up on Magi POS2. The Idea of large holders getting less POS for their coins ,or nothing even,than small or new holders will simply make NOBL a coin that no one wants to hold a large amount of. Large stakeholders will all cash out, price will crash and no one will have the incentive to purchase alot as they will get penalised. Its pretty obvious really.

edit: & what yr saying about the rich get richer and early birds with big wallets is the biggest load of BS iv even heard. Asside from the dev held premine any large holders of NOBLE have generally paid big bucks for them , far far more than the current price, & are the backbone of NOBL community well before POS or involvement w Maggy

This isnt communism. If you want a coin where the poor are more equal than the rich go start Lenincoin or TrorskyCoin

[joelao95]

Hey guys, I have to mention that there is no penalty in Magi's PoS-II for one staking with a big amount of coins. If you didn't get it, please read some docs or PM me (I don't want post many Magi's links here); you're misunderstanding this point. You're gonna stake as like the general PoS coin, but you have to be careful (not like in a general PoS coin, stock & stake).

Rules (PoS-II): Don't send significant amount coins at once in one transition in order to get interest easily (some people understand how PoS works, and they know how to get PoS blocks easily; but that more or less has security concern). Don't keep the wallet offline for more than 5 days in any circumstance, or you need to reset the stake time. That's the rule if one want to stake many coins.

I agree with HP's post (quoted below), and would like here to assist. As discussed, we will go with general PoS and then possibly migrate to PoS-II in the future regarding some stability concerns, to be clear. I welcome anyone points out the deficiency of PoS-II, but please firstly understand how PoS-II works. Addressing any possible issues in PoS-II will consolidate any measure we would take later on for NOBL to go with, if that's the way we're heading. Also, I believe we're trying to solve the issues rather than debating. If you think people talked too much Magi, let it go and let's get general PoS working ASAP.

I see the merits of pos-ii, and at the same time I wish it was an option with longer proven feedbacks. It does sound very promising, but as we should all know, every new tech and innovation can use additional time to stand the test of scrutiny and time. I wish to err on the side of caution and keep a good eye on this, while initially stabilizing our transition by using a proven general POS option.

Long ago we had many discussions about merits of Merged Mining and I had hoped such a path would be open and possible. As far as I know, DMD offer was the closest we had to achieving that goal, but at the moment it seems it did not materialize as the torch was passed on to palmdetroit for a general pos wallet (and he has not responded afte a month and a half now).

We have dedicated community members working on both of general pos and pos-ii options, so once it is ready the community should review both options and agree on the best course to take for the foreseeable future. Once again, I advocate for the general pos swap as the immediate course of action, and perhaps pos-ii at a later date should it stand the test of scrutiny and proven its stability with test of time. It would be highly risky to risk the future of Noblecoin on something so new so quickly, and basic improved security of the blockchain (removing multipools and large hashrates from conducting further 51% attacks) is paramount and immediate concern.

One step at a time, so we can get this done right for the good of all and Noblecoin itself

[wenwen]

just want to fuck this shit coin,who let it die,not big holders,the dev did .don't change change change.do you know DigiByte or Dnotes.so do sth real good to noblecoin. not just change into another coin. only to get some payments for your work.oh my god,what i have said?

[sorrros]

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

Do you know what you are talking about? It seems you have no idea of the idea behind Magi's PoS concept. Or are you only a big coin holder with fear, someone else might get more than you?

It's NOT a penalty. The idea is to take away the advantage of a few coin holders with a huge amount and give coin holders with smaller funds a better chance. Take a look at the rich list of most coin. You'll see some huge wallets at the top, mostly the devs and a few early birds. They get way more coins via PoS than any other with PoW and PoS combined. That's an unfair advantage and, like fairglu said, a risk for potential attacks.

So in your opinion NOBL is only made for established community members already having a huge amount of coins? You don't want new people who just learned about NOBL? In this case, call it VIP only coin, use default PoS with 1000% in order to ensure established coin holders get the most and tell other people to use other coins with a fair distribution. With your thinking, NOBL with be NOTHING else than the current FIAT ecosystem. The rich ones always get richer, the poor ones always remain poor!

Or probably spend some minutes to understand a concept before stating it's BS.

By VIP you mean the early investors who bought in at 25 sat? Maybe new investors would like to get candies by mail as well as they buy?

Rofo; I was all in favor of POS back last summer but looking at the current status and the discussions, please do what you want with the coin but DO NOT GIVE CONTROL. I can go along with POW if YOU lead NOBL.

I invested in NOBL because of its vision, not because of its technical specs; and I think I'm not the only one.

I guess I prefer smart tyranny over brainless democracy....

[james6546]

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

Do you know what you are talking about? It seems you have no idea of the idea behind Magi's PoS concept. Or are you only a big coin holder with fear, someone else might get more than you?

It's NOT a penalty. The idea is to take away the advantage of a few coin holders with a huge amount and give coin holders with smaller funds a better chance. Take a look at the rich list of most coin. You'll see some huge wallets at the top, mostly the devs and a few early birds. They get way more coins via PoS than any other with PoW and PoS combined. That's an unfair advantage and, like fairglu said, a risk for potential attacks.

So in your opinion NOBL is only made for established community members already having a huge amount of coins? You don't want new people who just learned about NOBL? In this case, call it VIP only coin, use default PoS with 1000% in order to ensure established coin holders get the most and tell other people to use other coins with a fair distribution. With your thinking, NOBL with be NOTHING else than the current FIAT ecosystem. The rich ones always get richer, the poor ones always remain poor!

Or probably spend some minutes to understand a concept before stating it's BS.

By VIP you mean the early investors who bought in at 25 sat? Maybe new investors would like to get candies by mail as well as they buy?

Rofo; I was all in favor of POS back last summer but looking at the current status and the discussions, please do what you want with the coin but DO NOT GIVE CONTROL. I can go along with POW if YOU lead NOBL.

I invested in NOBL because of its vision, not because of its technical specs; and I think I'm not the only one.

I guess I prefer smart tyranny over brainless democracy....

why do you say that? The community tries to change something und you complain?

there need to be done an algo switch asap. Whether we take Pos / PoS II or we take MM PoW.
But there are some people WORKING on the future instead of complaining. Rofo took a needed break.

What he said ^^

What we need is help, rather than someone ungratefully pointing out that it would be better if the dev came back, why don't people help out and pitch in some ideas? We are doing the best with the situation we have been given, if you don't like it you know where to go.

Geez, I really understand why rofo left, the crypto scene is full of morons...

[jawitech]

why do you say that? The community tries to change something und you complain?

there need to be done an algo switch asap. Whether we take Pos / PoS II or we take MM PoW.
But there are some people WORKING on the future instead of complaining. Rofo took a needed break.

What he said ^^

What we need is help, rather than someone ungratefully pointing out that it would be better if the dev came back, why don't people help out and pitch in some ideas? We are doing the best with the situation we have been given, if you don't like it you know where to go.

Geez, I really understand why rofo left, the crypto scene is full of morons...

+1

It seems Joe is wasting his time in this community.

[sorrros]

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

Do you know what you are talking about? It seems you have no idea of the idea behind Magi's PoS concept. Or are you only a big coin holder with fear, someone else might get more than you?

It's NOT a penalty. The idea is to take away the advantage of a few coin holders with a huge amount and give coin holders with smaller funds a better chance. Take a look at the rich list of most coin. You'll see some huge wallets at the top, mostly the devs and a few early birds. They get way more coins via PoS than any other with PoW and PoS combined. That's an unfair advantage and, like fairglu said, a risk for potential attacks.

So in your opinion NOBL is only made for established community members already having a huge amount of coins? You don't want new people who just learned about NOBL? In this case, call it VIP only coin, use default PoS with 1000% in order to ensure established coin holders get the most and tell other people to use other coins with a fair distribution. With your thinking, NOBL with be NOTHING else than the current FIAT ecosystem. The rich ones always get richer, the poor ones always remain poor!

Or probably spend some minutes to understand a concept before stating it's BS.

By VIP you mean the early investors who bought in at 25 sat? Maybe new investors would like to get candies by mail as well as they buy?

Rofo; I was all in favor of POS back last summer but looking at the current status and the discussions, please do what you want with the coin but DO NOT GIVE CONTROL. I can go along with POW if YOU lead NOBL.

I invested in NOBL because of its vision, not because of its technical specs; and I think I'm not the only one.

I guess I prefer smart tyranny over brainless democracy....

why do you say that? The community tries to change something und you complain?

there need to be done an algo switch asap. Whether we take Pos / PoS II or we take MM PoW.
But there are some people WORKING on the future instead of complaining. Rofo took a needed break.

What he said ^^

What we need is help, rather than someone ungratefully pointing out that it would be better if the dev came back, why don't people help out and pitch in some ideas? We are doing the best with the situation we have been given, if you don't like it you know where to go.

Geez, I really understand why rofo left, the crypto scene is full of morons...

Well I did provide some ideas recently; it seems a dick brings more attention than a helping hand. Anyways, I guess all i can do now is trust you guys if Rofo is not taking part in the new developments of Nobl. And of course avoid commenting before coffee in the morning...

[james6546]

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

Do you know what you are talking about? It seems you have no idea of the idea behind Magi's PoS concept. Or are you only a big coin holder with fear, someone else might get more than you?

It's NOT a penalty. The idea is to take away the advantage of a few coin holders with a huge amount and give coin holders with smaller funds a better chance. Take a look at the rich list of most coin. You'll see some huge wallets at the top, mostly the devs and a few early birds. They get way more coins via PoS than any other with PoW and PoS combined. That's an unfair advantage and, like fairglu said, a risk for potential attacks.

So in your opinion NOBL is only made for established community members already having a huge amount of coins? You don't want new people who just learned about NOBL? In this case, call it VIP only coin, use default PoS with 1000% in order to ensure established coin holders get the most and tell other people to use other coins with a fair distribution. With your thinking, NOBL with be NOTHING else than the current FIAT ecosystem. The rich ones always get richer, the poor ones always remain poor!

Or probably spend some minutes to understand a concept before stating it's BS.

By VIP you mean the early investors who bought in at 25 sat? Maybe new investors would like to get candies by mail as well as they buy?

Rofo; I was all in favor of POS back last summer but looking at the current status and the discussions, please do what you want with the coin but DO NOT GIVE CONTROL. I can go along with POW if YOU lead NOBL.

I invested in NOBL because of its vision, not because of its technical specs; and I think I'm not the only one.

I guess I prefer smart tyranny over brainless democracy....

why do you say that? The community tries to change something und you complain?

there need to be done an algo switch asap. Whether we take Pos / PoS II or we take MM PoW.
But there are some people WORKING on the future instead of complaining. Rofo took a needed break.

What he said ^^

What we need is help, rather than someone ungratefully pointing out that it would be better if the dev came back, why don't people help out and pitch in some ideas? We are doing the best with the situation we have been given, if you don't like it you know where to go.

Geez, I really understand why rofo left, the crypto scene is full of morons...

Well I did provide some ideas recently; it seems a dick brings more attention than a helping hand. Anyways, I guess all i can do now is trust you guys if Rofo is not taking part in the new developments of Nobl. And of course avoid commenting before coffee in the morning...

Haha, No worries, we are all noble has at the moment!

We are currently implementing both kinds of pos to see what kind quite us best. Joe is being very helpful

I think that in my opinion pos is just a forward step to keep noble moving in the right direction, as it seems to have stagnated of late.