Has Bruce talked at all about the accusations of fraud against him?

[bbit]

Have you ever even been to the SA forums?  Have you even looked at the bitcoin thread there?  I doubt it the way you speak of it.

You can call me whatever you like Bbit, Ill let my posts speak for themselves, but you did not answer the question, do you honestly think people from SA are PAID by some entity to come here and discredit bitcoin users?

yes, they are paid actually - you didn't know that ?  they are paid to troll dummy.

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[DrZaius]

And defamation/libel is only defamation/libel if it is untrue.

Even untrue statements are not libellous/defamatory unless, in addition to being proved false, can be demonstrated to have caused harm AND made without reasonable research into its truthfulness.

[MollyR]

I think they're providing us with a invaluable service, none of this fraud stuff came up before the SA people started to investigate it.  

Bbit, I think you've got your head in the sand.

Where in the blue blazes do you get the idea that they are paid to troll people??  Who pays them? Why? I don't understand where you've gotten this idea from.

And please, don't start with the name calling, it wont help anything.

[JonHind]

Bbit> You said that you were on an episode of the bitcoin show. Which episode was that, and what did you talk about?

[bbit]

I think they're providing us with a invaluable service, none of this fraud stuff came up before the SA people started to investigate it.  

Bbit, I think you've got your head in the sand.

Where in the blue blazes do you get the idea that they are paid to troll people??  Who pays them? Why? I don't understand where you've gotten this idea from.

And please, don't start with the name calling, it wont help anything.

Will lets see they pay a "fee" to be there hmmmm I wonder if any of them get paid to do what they do ? I'm just doing what SA does when it comes to name calling. You can't be objective you got your head so far up SA's ass you wouldn't know what a troll is if it hit you in the face.

[shad0wbitz]

I thought a lot of the child sex allegations were pretty out of line, tenuous at best, but for the most part completely unfounded. I created this account to throw in my 2c in defense before I realized I wouldn't be able to post outside of this forum.

Then I read his statements on the issue. Still continuing to deny Pattaya's massive problem with child prostitution. Trying to characterize New York City as being more lenient on child sex, and even the failure to acknowledge that prostitution is illegal. Flat-out lying and saying that the 'three-pronged attack' words were not his. Talking about "38 year olds" being called 'boy' and being "older than he is", when he's 50 years old himself and writing in a thread about virgins and newbies.

No, these in no way prove or hint anything to discredit his claims that he is not a pedophile. I will not state or even imply that he has any desire for underage men. But they reflect a kind of dishonesty and spin that I don't feel comfortable with. What would be wrong with making a statement like "Child sex is a problem in Pattaya, but I have never done such a thing"? Not to mention continuing to claim Pattaya was chosen first for its suitability for a Bitcoin Expo first, rather than recreation.

Then the fraud stuff came up. Bruce Wagner of OnlyOneTV is, without a doubt, undeniably, the Bruce Wagner of Bold Funding, the company that scammed and defrauded many families out of their homes and stole at least $125,000.

This is not a man that should be the face of Bitcoin. And it makes me very suspicious about his unwavering support of mybitcoin, something that was discussed and deemed suspicious by certain posters several months ago.

This is an interesting post more or less on the same lines of what I was saying. I think Mr. Wagner's reply on that thread honestly worsen his image and credibility. Agreed there is no proof that he is a pedophile, but for me as stated, this is beyond any reasonable doubt.

[MollyR]

You are aware of bandwidth costs? Running a site that large cant be cheap and they have very few ads. IIRC they pay a single time to acquire posting rights, so the users aren't being paid, but are actually themselves paying.
Are you honestly suggesting that the owners of SA have some kind of trolling slush fund they dip into to pay users to troll other sites?

I'm not sure how you equate me asking about info they've uncovered with having my head up their ass.
I would argue that if anyone here has lost objectivity its you.
Do you think they are fabricating court documents etc?  Whether or not some users troll is a moot point right now.
Have you personally looked at the evidence?

Please dont call me names, I havent called you any.

[Stalin-chan]

To me it kind of seems like Bruce stole (or spent) a lot of bitcoins that he had access to and then claimed that he lost them.
I can't accept that any person would be so careless with such an irreplaceable file; but nobody really knows I guess.

[Stalin-chan]

To me it really seems like Bitcoin associating with Bruce would cause irreparable harm to the Bitcoin name.
As a community we need to cast him out, it is nothing personal but he has demonstrated in past and current situations that he is not trustworthy or a good image to represent Bitcoin.

[MollyR]

I don't think anyone is claiming that SA is ONLY presenting evidence, but they ARE presenting evidence.
Interest in bitcoin, or interest in seeing a scammer get his come-upance, either way they sure seem interested in the matter at hand, to all btc users benefit.

It benefits you too bbit, whether you want to admit it or not.

[bbit]

I don't think anyone is claiming that SA is ONLY presenting evidence, but they ARE presenting evidence.
Interest in bitcoin, or interest in seeing a scammer get his come-upance, either way they sure seem interested in the matter at hand, to all btc users benefit.

It benefits you too bbit, whether you want to admit it or not.

I'm not saying it wouldn't if it is true. I hope the community would quickly realize we need someone else or something else representing Bitcoin. But the fact you turn a blind eye to all the terrible things being said by SA members just shows you aren't paying attention.

[MollyR]

I suppose I could have rose colored glasses on, they are leveling some terribly heavy accusations at him, but they arent entirely unfounded.

[JonHind]

I hope the community would quickly realize we need someone else or something else representing Bitcoin.

I think we are starting to read off the same page bbit

This is my only concern. As I posted in the in the bitcoin discussion thread, I really do care about bitcoins. I've invested a lot of money in it over the past 9 months, and I trade a lot with BTC's. I don't want a huge PR mess explode in our faces to the likes of 'Crypto Currency often associated with fraudsters and paedophiles promoted by a convicted fraudster and potential paedophile'. There is already a lack of confidence with BitCoin which is reflected in the recent trading prices.

While it would be stupid to deny that there are a lot of trolls on SA, SA is not a troll site. You should check it out sometime - it is a huge community, and they discuss many things. It is foolish and naive not to look at the evidence that they have uncovered regarding Bruce and Ed.

I think that we need to look at the evidence, while ignoring obvious trolls, and get to the bottom of this situation.

[Gabi]

nt

Look, a troll!

[Stalin-chan]

There aren't any concrete libel laws in America, we used to use the commonwealth law for libel but it has been struck down.
It is very hard to almost impossible for someone in America to be charged with defamation or libel due to the first amendment.
Because the accusations levied against Bruce are not provably false, there is no libel case.
Furthermore the communications decency act mostly makes libel cases pertaining to Internet forums impossible for the plaintiff to win.

[castlegoat]

I think they're providing us with a invaluable service, none of this fraud stuff came up before the SA people started to investigate it.  

Bbit, I think you've got your head in the sand.

Where in the blue blazes do you get the idea that they are paid to troll people??  Who pays them? Why? I don't understand where you've gotten this idea from.

And please, don't start with the name calling, it wont help anything.

Will lets see they pay a "fee" to be there hmmmm I wonder if any of them get paid to do what they do ? I'm just doing what SA does when it comes to name calling. You can't be objective you got your head so far up SA's ass you wouldn't know what a troll is if it hit you in the face.

Bbit I think your concerns here are totally grounded, and if there's money changing hands to destry this man's reputation it would do a lot of harm to the credibility of these trolls.  Is there any more you can share about people being paid to slander this guy?

I would be happy to help get the message out in what is increasingly an unfair, one-sided conversation about Bruce being a money-swindling sex tourist with only circumstantial (online) evidence to back it up.

[Gerken]

Wow, bbit, you are doing a better job of trolling new people here than anyone from SA ever did, keep up the good work. 

[mikegogulski]

Wow, bbit, you are doing a better job of trolling new people here than anyone from SA ever did, keep up the good work. 

This.

[lemonginger]

Yes Bruce Wagner has responded multiple times. Here and in IRC. He has responded with dodges, lies, and half-apologies. The mortgage fraud was just mismanagement and he's really sorry for it, he never said he called the fbi just that he talked to them, etc,etc etc.

--

Really, I honestly wish the Thailand/child prostitute stuff never got brought into the whole mess, because while it is certainly alarming, it is mostly completely circumstantial and somewhat ambiguous evidence and makes the whole thing look like a bad talk show episode. (Yes, I realize it is alarming and Bruce somewhat brought in on himself by his freakishly vociferous defending of Pattaya as the next location for a bitcoin conference. Why? I have no idea.)

--

Mostly it is clear that he is a dodgy guy with a dodgy past that quite possibly screwed a lot of people out of money. This plus the fact that he was not only the biggest promoter of mybitcoin but supposedly lost 25k coins to them AND was supposedly paid back but refuses to provide any confirmation of that transaction makes me a lot more worried that he is currently scamming lots of people out of their money.

I have no idea why anyone in the bitcoin community would continue to defend him at this point. This project went from interesting open source project to some sort of shrill tribalism and cultishness in just a few months. Quite breathtaking actually. One minute bitcoin was a prototype, the next minute it was being sold as the One True Currency. One minute the forums were a useful place to talk about bitcoin, the next minute they were Our Home and Under Attack.

There are other places where interesting talk is happening around complementary currencies and both the advantages and limitations of the current blockchain technologies. But that place isn'[t here.

I applaud the developers for remaining largely clear of the fray and still focusing on the big picture of what is important about bitcoin.

[Gerken]

Yes Bruce Wagner has responded multiple times. Here and in IRC. He has responded with dodges, lies, and half-apologies. The mortgage fraud was just mismanagement and he's really sorry for it, he never said he called the fbi just that he talked to them, etc,etc etc.

--

Really, I honestly wish the Thailand/child prostitute stuff never got brought into the whole mess, because while it is certainly alarming, it is mostly completely circumstantial and somewhat ambiguous evidence and makes the whole thing look like a bad talk show episode. (Yes, I realize it is alarming and Bruce somewhat brought in on himself by his freakishly vociferous defending of Pattaya as the next location for a bitcoin conference. Why? I have no idea.)

--

Mostly it is clear that he is a dodgy guy with a dodgy past that quite possibly screwed a lot of people out of money. This plus the fact that he was not only the biggest promoter of mybitcoin but supposedly lost 25k coins to them AND was supposedly paid back but refuses to provide any confirmation of that transaction makes me a lot more worried that he is currently scamming lots of people out of their money.

I have no idea why anyone in the bitcoin community would continue to defend him at this point. This project went from interesting open source project to some sort of shrill tribalism and cultishness in just a few months. Quite breathtaking actually. One minute bitcoin was a prototype, the next minute it was being sold as the One True Currency. One minute the forums were a useful place to talk about bitcoin, the next minute they were Our Home and Under Attack.

There are other places where interesting talk is happening around complementary currencies and both the advantages and limitations of the current blockchain technologies. But that place isn'[t here.

I applaud the developers for remaining largely clear of the fray and still focusing on the big picture of what is important about bitcoin.

Why do you hate bitcoin?  You are obviously a troll who seeks to destroy it by simply accepting what has been planted.