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Author Topic: The story of Bold Funding.  (Read 12856 times)
DrYe5
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September 01, 2011, 02:05:46 AM
 #61

That's funny, I was about to post the same thing. I think it's harsh to judge someone for their past actions, unless they are still committing them, unless we are talking about a serious crime. But in this case, I think Bruce is hiding things, and being evasive. He deserves the public lashing he's getting. He gained trust, caused others to trust to their detriment and could possibly be behind the greatest theft in bitcoin history.

And remember, he's still committing them. The Cook County case may be "ancient history", 2004, but the proceedings in New York are current.

That and until he compensates everyone he ripped off he hasn't actually come clean. Publicly speaking about having at least 25,000 bitcoins but keeping quiet about the fact that he's not using a bitcent of it to compensate victims even though he was commanded to by a judge is very much a current action and not a past one.

Can someone point me to where it says Bruce has outstanding debts to victims?

Shouldn't the IRS be notified? Shouldn't someone contact one of the victims named in the civil suit and tell them where to get their money? It seems all of those things would be more productive than posting on this forum.

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wolftaur
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September 01, 2011, 02:23:30 AM
 #62

Can someone point me to where it says Bruce has outstanding debts to victims?

Shouldn't the IRS be notified? Shouldn't someone contact one of the victims named in the civil suit and tell them where to get their money? It seems all of those things would be more productive than posting on this forum.

Someone posted the status information straight from a New York court system web server. Case is still active, so it hasn't been paid off. And I told people here someone in NYC should notify the court that Bruce handles Bitcoins and those are an asset, etc -- I'm in the wrong part of the country to forward such stuff to Bruce's judge.

Also, the IRS is the Internal Revenue Service. They care about what they can make you hand over only when you are behind on your taxes. Damages or judgments from lawsuits and prosecutions is a completely different branch of the government: not to mention that the IRS is federal, and I believe Bruce's case is state.

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/iscroll/SQLData.jsp?IndexNo=101308-2008#
Quote
INDEX NO.:          101308-2008
PLAINTIFF:            POST, JAMES
DEFENDANT:        WAGNER, BRUCE
CASE STATUS:      RESTORED (REOPENED)
ACTION:               OTHER
LAST UPDATE:      08-31-2011 10:00AM
JUSTICE:               TINGLING, M.A.

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bitrebel
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September 01, 2011, 02:36:05 AM
 #63

Can someone point me to where it says Bruce has outstanding debts to victims?

Shouldn't the IRS be notified? Shouldn't someone contact one of the victims named in the civil suit and tell them where to get their money? It seems all of those things would be more productive than posting on this forum.

Someone posted the status information straight from a New York court system web server. Case is still active, so it hasn't been paid off. And I told people here someone in NYC should notify the court that Bruce handles Bitcoins and those are an asset, etc -- I'm in the wrong part of the country to forward such stuff to Bruce's judge.

Also, the IRS is the Internal Revenue Service. They care about what they can make you hand over only when you are behind on your taxes. Damages or judgments from lawsuits and prosecutions is a completely different branch of the government: not to mention that the IRS is federal, and I believe Bruce's case is state.

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/iscroll/SQLData.jsp?IndexNo=101308-2008#
Quote
INDEX NO.:          101308-2008
PLAINTIFF:            POST, JAMES
DEFENDANT:        WAGNER, BRUCE
CASE STATUS:      RESTORED (REOPENED)
ACTION:               OTHER
LAST UPDATE:      08-31-2011 10:00AM
JUSTICE:               TINGLING, M.A.

So, you at least admit you are an "Informant", correct?

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Stalin-chan
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September 01, 2011, 02:39:05 AM
 #64

Bruce deserves to be informed on, he is not innocent the only innocents are the people he took money from.
bitrebel
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September 01, 2011, 02:52:50 AM
 #65

Bruce deserves to be informed on, he is not innocent the only innocents are the people he took money from.

I just think it would be much classier and less demeaning to the soul of myself, to do something else.
I would probably make a page about his fraud, and point the potential victims to him, so they can do it for themselves. It's not someone else's job to inform, unless you are an "Informant".
If so, then you are shit in my book. You want to spend your life informing on people, then get a job working for the government and we can call a spade a spade.

Why does Bitrebel have 65+ Ignores?
Because Bitrebel says things that some people do not want YOU to hear.
wolftaur
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September 01, 2011, 03:02:33 AM
 #66

So, you at least admit you are an "Informant", correct?

Nope. But nice try with the attempt to make it look like I'm doing something dishonest.

I don't work with law enforcement, I don't get "favors" with my own legal trouble in exchange for turning in bigger fish, I don't have cop buddies, none of that crap.

I'm a computer geek with financial industry experience who has extreme distaste for this sort of exploitation of the desperate who knows that I have the legal right to report someone if I believe they committed a crime. That doesn't make me an "informant", it makes me a concerned citizen.

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wolftaur
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September 01, 2011, 03:04:02 AM
 #67

I just think it would be much classier and less demeaning to the soul of myself, to do something else.
I would probably make a page about his fraud, and point the potential victims to him, so they can do it for themselves. It's not someone else's job to inform, unless you are an "Informant".
If so, then you are shit in my book. You want to spend your life informing on people, then get a job working for the government and we can call a spade a spade.

In other words, you believe I should be insulted if I'd make a report to the judge that's handling his case after he lost, but you'd support it if I gave the exact same information to a victim he defrauded?

Holy fuck, dude. Get a clue.

"MOOOOOOOM! SOME MYTHICAL WOLFBEAST GUY IS MAKING FUN OF ME ON THE INTERNET!!!!"
Stalin-chan
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September 01, 2011, 03:12:31 AM
 #68

Bruce deserves to be informed on, he is not innocent the only innocents are the people he took money from.

I just think it would be much classier and less demeaning to the soul of myself, to do something else.
I would probably make a page about his fraud, and point the potential victims to him, so they can do it for themselves. It's not someone else's job to inform, unless you are an "Informant".
If so, then you are shit in my book. You want to spend your life informing on people, then get a job working for the government and we can call a spade a spade.

Well i'm not an informant, I'm just a college student.
At the very least I think Bruce should stop receiving sponsorship money for his endeavours. If he wants to promote Bitcoins it should be on his own money.
I would warn any person from contacting and making any financial deals with him in the future.
bitrebel
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September 01, 2011, 03:16:33 AM
 #69

I just think it would be much classier and less demeaning to the soul of myself, to do something else.
I would probably make a page about his fraud, and point the potential victims to him, so they can do it for themselves. It's not someone else's job to inform, unless you are an "Informant".
If so, then you are shit in my book. You want to spend your life informing on people, then get a job working for the government and we can call a spade a spade.

In other words, you believe I should be insulted if I'd make a report to the judge that's handling his case after he lost, but you'd support it if I gave the exact same information to a victim he defrauded?

Holy fuck, dude. Get a clue.

There are all kinds of actions a person can take. Some are direct and some are indirect. I never said to go tell the victims anything. What I said I would do, was at a worst case scenario if I felt I had to help, which I don't. I'm not involved and I do not believe in involving myself in things that are not my business. Too many people have nothing better to do than to stick their noses in other people's business and this country is a nation a ninny's to all tattle on each other for big brother. I opt to not be a part of that mess of slavish sheepish mind controlled behavior. You, on the other hand, are welcome to do whatever you like. Be a snitch, be a troll, be a stooge for the man. And I hope you can sleep at night with all the direct actions and nonsense you cause in the world.

Why does Bitrebel have 65+ Ignores?
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FAtlas
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September 01, 2011, 03:22:57 AM
 #70

There are all kinds of actions a person can take. Some are direct and some are indirect. I never said to go tell the victims anything. What I said I would do, was at a worst case scenario if I felt I had to help, which I don't. I'm not involved and I do not believe in involving myself in things that are not my business. Too many people have nothing better to do than to stick their noses in other people's business and this country is a nation a ninny's to all tattle on each other for big brother. I opt to not be a part of that mess of slavish sheepish mind controlled behavior. You, on the other hand, are welcome to do whatever you like. Be a snitch, be a troll, be a stooge for the man. And I hope you can sleep at night with all the direct actions and nonsense you cause in the world.

Regarding the highlighted part, who says we care about 'big brother'?  Have you ever seen someone affected by a mortgage scam?  Informing the courts that the guilty party has money and is capable of paying them back could put food on their or their kids' table this month, or keep them off the street for another week.

I'm all about 'fuck the police' in crimes like drugs/prostitution/whatever where there isn't really a victim.  But anybody who defrauds people who are just desperate to keep their homes deserves everything they get.  Fuck those people within an inch of their lives, and if I ever have anything I can do to help the victims of that shit, I'll take those steps.

Sorry that your rabid anti-government stance is preventing you from seeing the obvious.

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wolftaur
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September 01, 2011, 03:23:07 AM
 #71

Be a snitch, be a troll, be a stooge for the man. And I hope you can sleep at night with all the direct actions and nonsense you cause in the world.

Are you a criminal yourself? I mean, I just have to ask. I can't really think of any other reason, save perhaps a severe mental disorder, that would cause you to not only assume but continually insist that it's "the man" I'm wanting to help, rather than the victims of fraud.

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September 01, 2011, 03:27:18 AM
 #72

Theres a huge difference between not getting involved in something that has nothing to do with you and looking the other way when a convicted scammer is trying to get involved in Bitcoins a system of currency you are trying to support and legitimise.
bitrebel
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September 01, 2011, 04:00:07 AM
 #73

There are all kinds of actions a person can take. Some are direct and some are indirect. I never said to go tell the victims anything. What I said I would do, was at a worst case scenario if I felt I had to help, which I don't. I'm not involved and I do not believe in involving myself in things that are not my business. Too many people have nothing better to do than to stick their noses in other people's business and this country is a nation a ninny's to all tattle on each other for big brother. I opt to not be a part of that mess of slavish sheepish mind controlled behavior. You, on the other hand, are welcome to do whatever you like. Be a snitch, be a troll, be a stooge for the man. And I hope you can sleep at night with all the direct actions and nonsense you cause in the world.

Regarding the highlighted part, who says we care about 'big brother'?  Have you ever seen someone affected by a mortgage scam?  Informing the courts that the guilty party has money and is capable of paying them back could put food on their or their kids' table this month, or keep them off the street for another week.

I'm all about 'fuck the police' in crimes like drugs/prostitution/whatever where there isn't really a victim.  But anybody who defrauds people who are just desperate to keep their homes deserves everything they get.  Fuck those people within an inch of their lives, and if I ever have anything I can do to help the victims of that shit, I'll take those steps.

Sorry that your rabid anti-government stance is preventing you from seeing the obvious.

I can see your side perfectly well, my friend. I don't share the same basic belief system as you, that's all. Just as I only felt so sorry for Bruce when he lost his 25,000BTC. Same thing, really. Those people did not get robbed, they got defrauded. There is a difference. They did not have to hand over that money before checking out whether or not Bruce was legitimate. Half the blame is on the desperate people who did not look into it beforehand.

Then again, I never read the whole story regarding the fraud, but it appears to me, the victims are 50% to blame in this case.

Why does Bitrebel have 65+ Ignores?
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Stalin-chan
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September 01, 2011, 04:06:22 AM
 #74

Now the way I see it I can lay out a pretty simple plan for Bruce to discredit his opposition.

A. Release his public wallet encryption key so his claims pertaining to mybitcoin.com can be verified.

B. Come clean that he has not paid any money to the victims of his fraud, and explain why he has no paid such fees or why he feels he does not owe any money.

both of these terms would easily satisfy as a counterpoint to many of the issues already brought up, but Bruce will not address any of them.
The most alarming part is that Bruce at some point received thousands of payments and he even admits this in his first post, yet none of this money was paid back.

What happened? Where is the money? What money does Bruce use to run his website?? What money does Bruce have to organise conventions all over the world??? Does Bruce even have a job?Huh

Why are these questions so hard to answer, do some of the people supporting Bruce really think these questions are unreasonable?
wolftaur
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September 01, 2011, 04:07:47 AM
 #75

Does Bruce even have a job?Huh

Yeah. Scamming people out of their money can be pretty hard work!

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DrYe5
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September 01, 2011, 04:10:15 AM
 #76

Does Bruce even have a job?Huh

Yeah. Scamming people out of their money can be pretty hard work!

During his show's response to the MyBitCoin debacle he explains that his job is running a sponsored (his emphasis) television show. Exactly how much an independent internet TV show catering to a niche market can generate in advertising dollars bitcoins is a question I cannot answer.

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wolftaur
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September 01, 2011, 04:13:42 AM
 #77

During his show's response to the MyBitCoin debacle he explains that his job is running a sponsored (his emphasis) television show. Exactly how much an independent internet TV show catering to a niche market can generate in advertising dollars bitcoins is a question I cannot answer.

Considering that there has already been evidence posted that Bruce was warned of the Mybitcoin issues several weeks before he finally stopped trying to sweep it under the rug, stating that he was going to pull his support for them, but never actually doing it, excuse excuse excuse, multiple e-mails where he said "Yeah, I'm addressing this in my next show", "Oh, I'll have to do it tomorrow", "Oh, sorry, not this week but soon" right up until Mybitcoin finally vanished...

I'd have to guess a TV show about bitcoins pays pretty fucking well when Mybitcoin is sponsoring.

"MOOOOOOOM! SOME MYTHICAL WOLFBEAST GUY IS MAKING FUN OF ME ON THE INTERNET!!!!"
rainingbitcoins
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September 01, 2011, 05:06:01 AM
 #78

I stated that if you turn over your money, to a person who claims to have a mortgage related company, and you did not even bother to check to see if they were licensed, you are as much at fault for your losses, because if it were not for your part in the stupidity, the con artist could not have your cash.
That's all I stated. These kinds of crimes take two people to work. A willing con artist and a willing or stupid victim.

If you weren't dumb enough to get dementia, maybe you wouldn't have gotten swindled, grandma. Stupid victim.

If you weren't wearing body armor, you were 50% responsible for getting killed when someone shot you in the chest. Stupid victim.


Stalin-chan
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September 01, 2011, 05:09:10 AM
 #79

The victim is at 0% of the blame because Bruce had deceived his clients into thinking he belonged to a reputable firm by lying about the age of the company, lying about his staff, lying about the number of offices he had (he had 1 not 72 as he claimed), lying about his position as a real estate investor (he is not one, despite his claims to his clients).

So the reality of the situation is that Bruce Wagner solicited and defrauded at least 20 people in the year 2004, desperate people on the verge of homelessness who had no money to pay their mortgage and were offered hope by Bruce who instead took their money and ran.
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September 01, 2011, 06:53:08 AM
 #80

AT first I thought Bitcoin was a brilliant idea, a revolution in the way people would be doing their payments. Then I realised it was either an extremely flawed concept, or a pyramid scheme. Then Bruce happened, and it turns out that Bitcoin is just the biggest and funniest dramashit that ever occured on the internet.

This will spawn some meme's that are sure to be used for YEARS to come Cheesy

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Donate to the BitKitty Foundation instead! -> 1Fd4yLneGmxRHnPi6WCMC2hAMzaWvDePF9 <-
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