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Author Topic: Vertcoin - First Scrypt N | First Stealth Address - Privacy without mixer  (Read 1230846 times)
voephilis
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November 22, 2014, 02:37:21 PM
 #12661

Does anyone know when they are gonna change the algo?

I've been hearing mid-December lately.

Thanks!!

yes. mid - december seems to be final date! Smiley
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November 22, 2014, 08:19:41 PM
 #12662

Does anyone know when they are gonna change the algo?

I've been hearing mid-December lately.

Thanks!!

yes. mid - december seems to be final date! Smiley

Not too far away, it will happen soon Smiley
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November 23, 2014, 02:48:59 AM
 #12663

Is there a projected difficulty when the coin is available to mine on Lyra2RE? it's being forked correct?
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November 23, 2014, 10:06:49 AM
 #12664

Yes changing the algo doesn't make you coin better. Look at Feathercoin. Everyone was hoping that changing the algo will affect the price. And the result ? A picture worths more than 10k words:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/feathercoin/#charts



FTC offers nothing new, same old same old, catering only to miners and their GPU farms doesnt work anymore, the scene has changed, VTC has better chances than FTC, because of the privacy feature.

Ummm, what exactly is Vtc then? Vtc is strictly a miners coin and thats it. It WILL not get merchant adoption to any  levels, so sx addresses are not even useful (which were useless anyway because its "anonymity lite"), but thats what everyone decided to go for back a months ago. A half measure is meaningless. Sx addresses were a neat novelty, but are absolutely useless. Stop making Vtc out to be a "privacy coin", it is simply not.

Miners coin=mine and sell. Why people are assuming an algo change is going to cause a huge spike in price is beyond me. It might stabilize at a slightly higher rate than the 0.05$ its at now, but not by much. And if it does start to go up a few percentage points, the market will be flooded by people dumping their holding trying to find an exit.

Zerocoin should have been added to vert, Vert should have been made a full out anon coin, the desicion made in the Spring to not do so was the biggest mistake in Verts existence.
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November 23, 2014, 11:15:33 AM
 #12665

turtoro, i like your critical statements because they are realistic and show what you really think.

But i would not say that "a miner's coin" is automatically useless for merchant adoption and daily business.

turtoro
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November 23, 2014, 11:27:50 AM
 #12666

turtoro, i like your critical statements because they are realistic and show what you really think.

But i would not say that "a miner's coin" is automatically useless for merchant adoption and daily business.

Im talking about valuation which most (not all) people are concerned about.

A miners coin is by default a "easy" gateway to access BTC by the common person. This will, by its very nature, have a constant downwards pressure on the value of that coin aside from the occasional pump.

In terms of adoption, lets be realistic. No other mainstream coin will usurp BTC at least for the time being. If something does down the line, it will be something that is new and not out on the market yet. Anyone who says that VTC can gain adoption is naive. What evidence is there that that is even a remote possibility?  What is being done on that front? nothing. There have been 2-3 major pushes in the last ~11 months and the best that could be done is coffee, hotsauce and games. The closest we came to a concerted effort on that front was Vertpay, which was a clusterfuck. And a few months later that team (who are well known in the crypto community) even said that it probably would not have worked after they did some research, there is not enough demand in the outside market. The only merchant adoption that is possible is through something like moolah or its equivalents, which is meaningless if that service allows for 10 other coins besides Vert.

BTc is "mainstream" and that wont change, no coin has the resources to challenge its community, headstart and expertise, things like ethereum might/might not work, and there will be a niche for a good anon coin. Vtc droppped the ball on the last point.

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November 23, 2014, 01:10:30 PM
 #12667

Hello all,

Pleace help me!

I have 2 x Asus R9 290x video card. Driver is 14.9.
My OS is Win 7 Ultimate, 64bit. My PC use 16 GB RAM.

I mining in wafflepool.com (Multipool) and using Scrypt-N algorithm
Use vertminer 0.5.4pre3 .. but i have a problem.

Code:
setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1

vertminer.exe -o stratum+tcp://eu.wafflepool.com:3332 -u <BTC address> -p <password> --auto-fan -w 512 -v 1 -I 20 -g 1 --lookup-gap 2 --thread-concurrency 24550 --gpu-engine 940 --gpu-memclock 1450 --gpu-powertune 25

Written my unknown commands.

I decided to use old miner vertminer-0.5.2.
There everything is ok with this line:

Code:
setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1

vertminer.exe --scrypt-vert -o stratum+tcp://eu.wafflepool.com:3332 -u <BTC address> -p <password> --auto-fan -w 512 -v 1 -I 20 -g 1 --lookup-gap 2 --thread-concurrency 24550 --gpu-engine 940 --gpu-memclock 1450 --gpu-powertune 25

Why the old version and everything works with no new? And what parameters should be changed? How are the norm indicators for both versions - kh/s?
silencesilence
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November 23, 2014, 01:46:14 PM
 #12668

Yes changing the algo doesn't make you coin better. Look at Feathercoin. Everyone was hoping that changing the algo will affect the price. And the result ? A picture worths more than 10k words:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/feathercoin/#charts
FTC offers nothing new, same old same old, catering only to miners and their GPU farms doesnt work anymore, the scene has changed, VTC has better chances than FTC, because of the privacy feature.

Ummm, what exactly is Vtc then? Vtc is strictly a miners coin and thats it. It WILL not get merchant adoption to any  levels, so sx addresses are not even useful (which were useless anyway because its "anonymity lite"), but thats what everyone decided to go for back a months ago. A half measure is meaningless. Sx addresses were a neat novelty, but are absolutely useless. Stop making Vtc out to be a "privacy coin", it is simply not.

Miners coin=mine and sell. Why people are assuming an algo change is going to cause a huge spike in price is beyond me. It might stabilize at a slightly higher rate than the 0.05$ its at now, but not by much. And if it does start to go up a few percentage points, the market will be flooded by people dumping their holding trying to find an exit.

Zerocoin should have been added to vert, Vert should have been made a full out anon coin, the desicion made in the Spring to not do so was the biggest mistake in Verts existence.

@turtoro

The new algorithm has protection for multi pools, they will not be able to mining and sell their coins, so that only people who believe in the coin will be able to mining and will not sell all coins
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November 23, 2014, 02:08:20 PM
 #12669

The new algorithm has protection for multi pools, they will not be able to mining and sell their coins, so that only people who believe in the coin will be able to mining and will not sell all coins

What? Elaborate on this. How can a hashing algo know to restrict any hashing power, regardless of where it come from? Sounds pretty delusional but I'd love to hear why you believe it.
silencesilence
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November 23, 2014, 02:18:34 PM
 #12670

The new algorithm has protection for multi pools, they will not be able to mining and sell their coins, so that only people who believe in the coin will be able to mining and will not sell all coins

What? Elaborate on this. How can a hashing algo know to restrict any hashing power, regardless of where it come from? Sounds pretty delusional but I'd love to hear why you believe it.

I am pleased to announce Vertcoin will be changing its Proof of Work algorithm to Lyra2. Lyra2 is a password hashing scheme much like Scrypt that is not easily parallelizable and has scaling hardware difficulty that depends on memory and processing power.

Vertcoin has always been and will continue to be the leader in decentralization of cryptocurrency. Lyra2 is a natural successor of Scrypt providing an improvement on the same fundamental purpose – scaling hardware difficulty. The decision to move to this algorithm comes as a preemptive strike against ASICs and a move against Multipools. As many of you know, we have several concepts in the hopper to remain in step with the Vertcoin charter – Vertcoin’s [algorithm] is designed to resist the development of custom mining hardware and multipool mining, ensuring that transactions are validated by a widely distributed network and avoiding the selling pressure when large mining pools indiscriminately flood the market with freshly mined coins.

This means..we gotta push to get vertcoin to the point it deserves!

It is the crypto coin of the future
oblox
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November 23, 2014, 02:42:15 PM
 #12671

The new algorithm has protection for multi pools, they will not be able to mining and sell their coins, so that only people who believe in the coin will be able to mining and will not sell all coins

What? Elaborate on this. How can a hashing algo know to restrict any hashing power, regardless of where it come from? Sounds pretty delusional but I'd love to hear why you believe it.

I think he believes that because for a time, VTC will be the only Lyra2 coin. He fails to see that multipools can also switch algorithms based on profitability...

Yessir. If VTC becomes highly profitable again, you can bet your sweet ass multis will find a way to incorporate it. It's absurd to state something like that thinking that will always be the case when more often that not, it has been been proven wrong in crypto.
centrafuge
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November 23, 2014, 04:52:25 PM
 #12672

Yes changing the algo doesn't make you coin better. Look at Feathercoin. Everyone was hoping that changing the algo will affect the price. And the result ? A picture worths more than 10k words:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/feathercoin/#charts



FTC offers nothing new, same old same old, catering only to miners and their GPU farms doesnt work anymore, the scene has changed, VTC has better chances than FTC, because of the privacy feature.
Sx addresses were a neat novelty, but are absolutely useless. Stop making Vtc out to be a "privacy coin", it is simply not.



Could you elaborate on how stealth adresses are not a privacy feature? What is there failing in your opinion?
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November 23, 2014, 05:13:38 PM
 #12673

The new algorithm has protection for multi pools, they will not be able to mining and sell their coins, so that only people who believe in the coin will be able to mining and will not sell all coins

What? Elaborate on this. How can a hashing algo know to restrict any hashing power, regardless of where it come from? Sounds pretty delusional but I'd love to hear why you believe it.

I think he believes that because for a time, VTC will be the only Lyra2 coin. He fails to see that multipools can also switch algorithms based on profitability...

Yessir. If VTC becomes highly profitable again, you can bet your sweet ass multis will find a way to incorporate it. It's absurd to state something like that thinking that will always be the case when more often that not, it has been been proven wrong in crypto.

Yea, I don't use sgminer5, but I'd guess it would be pretty trivial to add lyra2re to the autoswitcher part of the program.
turtoro
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November 23, 2014, 06:15:49 PM
Last edit: November 23, 2014, 06:32:54 PM by turtoro
 #12674

Yes changing the algo doesn't make you coin better. Look at Feathercoin. Everyone was hoping that changing the algo will affect the price. And the result ? A picture worths more than 10k words:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/feathercoin/#charts



FTC offers nothing new, same old same old, catering only to miners and their GPU farms doesnt work anymore, the scene has changed, VTC has better chances than FTC, because of the privacy feature.
Sx addresses were a neat novelty, but are absolutely useless. Stop making Vtc out to be a "privacy coin", it is simply not.



Could you elaborate on how stealth adresses are not a privacy feature? What is there failing in your opinion?

A privacy feature does not make a privacy focused coin. Or in other words an anonymity coin. Sx addresses are a "mild" version of privacy. All they do is potentially scrub the addresses, not more than that.  As I said they are a neat novelty but useless in a coin thats not being used for transactions. Vert decided in Spring it wants to go after the mainstream market-which is the only reason to have gone with sx instead of anon. My position is that that market is going to be dominated by BTC and there will not be room for growth for other coins in the sector. Especially because NOBODY here is working on gaining merchant acceptance anymore. Everyone thinks that it will come around magically, it wont. As I said in the previous post, there has been nothing done in that area since Spring. And rightly so, its hard enough for merchants to accept BTC which is established, to think that they would accept VTC in any meaningful way is unimaginable.

What should have been done (and in my opinion still should be done) is we transform VTC into an anon coin and go head to head with drk and XMR. That market is sill up for grabs. And this was the mistake of Bushido. He could have utilized the 5,000+ community, held a discussion about changing strategy, and if everyone agreed he could have utilized the resources that remain with VTC rather than starting from scratch with zerovert (which could have been huge if it was rolled out better). I understand why he did it, but again, I dont think it was the best idea.

So to answer your question, sx is a privacy feature, but in a coin fighting a  losing battle. VTC is not a privacy coin.


Make Vtc the go to miners coin with the algo change, incorporate zerocoin into Vtc, and then we have something to be excited about. People will be encouraged to mine, and will at the same time be encouraged to use it for their "privacy" needs. It could be the second coin under BTC. Win win. If Bushido did in fact figure out to to do zerocoin, then we would be running on jetfuel because its better than ring sigs/cryptonote etc.

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November 23, 2014, 06:45:47 PM
 #12675

Yes changing the algo doesn't make you coin better. Look at Feathercoin. Everyone was hoping that changing the algo will affect the price. And the result ? A picture worths more than 10k words:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/feathercoin/#charts



FTC offers nothing new, same old same old, catering only to miners and their GPU farms doesnt work anymore, the scene has changed, VTC has better chances than FTC, because of the privacy feature.
Sx addresses were a neat novelty, but are absolutely useless. Stop making Vtc out to be a "privacy coin", it is simply not.



Could you elaborate on how stealth adresses are not a privacy feature? What is there failing in your opinion?

A privacy feature does not make a privacy focused coin. Or in other words an anonymity coin. Sx addresses are a "mild" version of privacy. All they do is potentially scrub the addresses, not more than that.  As I said they are a neat novelty but useless in a coin thats not being used for transactions. Vert decided in Spring it wants to go after the mainstream market-which is the only reason to have gone with sx instead of anon. My position is that that market is going to be dominated by BTC and there will not be room for growth for other coins in the sector. Especially because NOBODY here is working on gaining merchant acceptance anymore. Everyone thinks that it will come around magically, it wont. As I said in the previous post, there has been nothing done in that area since Spring. And rightly so, its hard enough for merchants to accept BTC which is established, to think that they would accept VTC in any meaningful way is unimaginable.

What should have been done (and in my opinion still should be done) is we transform VTC into an anon coin and go head to head with drk and XMR. That market is sill up for grabs. And this was the mistake of Bushido. He could have utilized the 5,000+ community, held a discussion about changing strategy, and if everyone agreed he could have utilized the resources that remain with VTC rather than starting from scratch with zerovert (which could have been huge if it was rolled out better). I understand why he did it, but again, I dont think it was the best idea.

So to answer your question, sx is a privacy feature, but in a coin fighting a  losing battle. VTC is not a privacy coin.


Make Vtc the go to miners coin with the algo change, incorporate zerocoin into Vtc, and then we have something to be excited about. People will be encouraged to mine, and will at the same time be encouraged to use it for their "privacy" needs. It could be the second coin under BTC. Win win. If Bushido did in fact figure out to to do zerocoin, then we would be running on jetfuel because its better than ring sigs/cryptonote etc.



I'm really like your idea, but due to Zerocoin itself still has performance issue and cutting-edge cryptography. So, it is hard and very risky decision to implement in Vert. So, my plan is creating a platform and ecosystem for Vert. Instead of putting everything to Vert, I will create services and make Vert as a central core like the Sidechain concept that Bitcoin wants to have altcoin around, and Bitcoin as a core.
turtoro
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November 23, 2014, 06:52:43 PM
 #12676

Yes changing the algo doesn't make you coin better. Look at Feathercoin. Everyone was hoping that changing the algo will affect the price. And the result ? A picture worths more than 10k words:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/feathercoin/#charts



FTC offers nothing new, same old same old, catering only to miners and their GPU farms doesnt work anymore, the scene has changed, VTC has better chances than FTC, because of the privacy feature.
Sx addresses were a neat novelty, but are absolutely useless. Stop making Vtc out to be a "privacy coin", it is simply not.



Could you elaborate on how stealth adresses are not a privacy feature? What is there failing in your opinion?

A privacy feature does not make a privacy focused coin. Or in other words an anonymity coin. Sx addresses are a "mild" version of privacy. All they do is potentially scrub the addresses, not more than that.  As I said they are a neat novelty but useless in a coin thats not being used for transactions. Vert decided in Spring it wants to go after the mainstream market-which is the only reason to have gone with sx instead of anon. My position is that that market is going to be dominated by BTC and there will not be room for growth for other coins in the sector. Especially because NOBODY here is working on gaining merchant acceptance anymore. Everyone thinks that it will come around magically, it wont. As I said in the previous post, there has been nothing done in that area since Spring. And rightly so, its hard enough for merchants to accept BTC which is established, to think that they would accept VTC in any meaningful way is unimaginable.

What should have been done (and in my opinion still should be done) is we transform VTC into an anon coin and go head to head with drk and XMR. That market is sill up for grabs. And this was the mistake of Bushido. He could have utilized the 5,000+ community, held a discussion about changing strategy, and if everyone agreed he could have utilized the resources that remain with VTC rather than starting from scratch with zerovert (which could have been huge if it was rolled out better). I understand why he did it, but again, I dont think it was the best idea.

So to answer your question, sx is a privacy feature, but in a coin fighting a  losing battle. VTC is not a privacy coin.


Make Vtc the go to miners coin with the algo change, incorporate zerocoin into Vtc, and then we have something to be excited about. People will be encouraged to mine, and will at the same time be encouraged to use it for their "privacy" needs. It could be the second coin under BTC. Win win. If Bushido did in fact figure out to to do zerocoin, then we would be running on jetfuel because its better than ring sigs/cryptonote etc.



I'm really like your idea, but due to Zerocoin itself still has performance issue and cutting-edge cryptography. So, it is hard and very risky decision to implement in Vert. So, my plan is creating a platform and ecosystem for Vert. Instead of putting everything to Vert, I will create services and make Vert as a central core like the Sidechain concept that Bitcoin wants to have altcoin around, and Bitcoin as a core.


Its a reasonable position, but its has to be planned out and in terms of a firm overall strategy, and then let the people know what is going on. Make a 6month plan of what you are trying to accomplish and put it up so everyone can read it. If you want to create a Vert ecosystem, you cant do it without a Vert community to advocate for it. A lot of people still want to be part of this, but are on the sidelines because of the uncertainty in direction.
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November 23, 2014, 07:12:30 PM
 #12677

Yes changing the algo doesn't make you coin better. Look at Feathercoin. Everyone was hoping that changing the algo will affect the price. And the result ? A picture worths more than 10k words:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/feathercoin/#charts



FTC offers nothing new, same old same old, catering only to miners and their GPU farms doesnt work anymore, the scene has changed, VTC has better chances than FTC, because of the privacy feature.
Sx addresses were a neat novelty, but are absolutely useless. Stop making Vtc out to be a "privacy coin", it is simply not.



Could you elaborate on how stealth adresses are not a privacy feature? What is there failing in your opinion?

A privacy feature does not make a privacy focused coin. Or in other words an anonymity coin. Sx addresses are a "mild" version of privacy. All they do is potentially scrub the addresses, not more than that.  As I said they are a neat novelty but useless in a coin thats not being used for transactions. Vert decided in Spring it wants to go after the mainstream market-which is the only reason to have gone with sx instead of anon. My position is that that market is going to be dominated by BTC and there will not be room for growth for other coins in the sector. Especially because NOBODY here is working on gaining merchant acceptance anymore. Everyone thinks that it will come around magically, it wont. As I said in the previous post, there has been nothing done in that area since Spring. And rightly so, its hard enough for merchants to accept BTC which is established, to think that they would accept VTC in any meaningful way is unimaginable.

What should have been done (and in my opinion still should be done) is we transform VTC into an anon coin and go head to head with drk and XMR. That market is sill up for grabs. And this was the mistake of Bushido. He could have utilized the 5,000+ community, held a discussion about changing strategy, and if everyone agreed he could have utilized the resources that remain with VTC rather than starting from scratch with zerovert (which could have been huge if it was rolled out better). I understand why he did it, but again, I dont think it was the best idea.

So to answer your question, sx is a privacy feature, but in a coin fighting a  losing battle. VTC is not a privacy coin.


Make Vtc the go to miners coin with the algo change, incorporate zerocoin into Vtc, and then we have something to be excited about. People will be encouraged to mine, and will at the same time be encouraged to use it for their "privacy" needs. It could be the second coin under BTC. Win win. If Bushido did in fact figure out to to do zerocoin, then we would be running on jetfuel because its better than ring sigs/cryptonote etc.



I'm really like your idea, but due to Zerocoin itself still has performance issue and cutting-edge cryptography. So, it is hard and very risky decision to implement in Vert. So, my plan is creating a platform and ecosystem for Vert. Instead of putting everything to Vert, I will create services and make Vert as a central core like the Sidechain concept that Bitcoin wants to have altcoin around, and Bitcoin as a core.


Its a reasonable position, but its has to be planned out and in terms of a firm overall strategy, and then let the people know what is going on. Make a 6month plan of what you are trying to accomplish and put it up so everyone can read it. If you want to create a Vert ecosystem, you cant do it without a Vert community to advocate for it. A lot of people still want to be part of this, but are on the sidelines because of the uncertainty in direction.

I will release the 6 months plan soon then, thank you for your advice.
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November 23, 2014, 08:51:18 PM
 #12678

good discussions going on, The vert ecosystem is the best way for this coin to survive and grow.
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November 24, 2014, 06:58:24 AM
 #12679

nice to see we have a 6 month plan Smiley
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November 24, 2014, 08:26:28 AM
 #12680

I dont think it will change anything switching Algorithms because this coin has a very small market cap. LTC needs to change algos





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.




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