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Author Topic: So Gaddafi has had his foreign assets frozen......  (Read 2092 times)
Minsc
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September 01, 2011, 10:07:00 PM
 #21

When will him(assume he is still alive) or other dictators discover Bitcoin?


We need to email these governments ourselves alerting them to bitcoin.

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September 02, 2011, 01:25:12 AM
 #22

When will him(assume he is still alive) or other dictators discover Bitcoin?


We need to email these governments ourselves alerting them to bitcoin.

Or refrain from even talking about such a possibility, pretending that they will never find out by themseleves.

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September 02, 2011, 04:06:18 PM
 #23

When will him(assume he is still alive) or other dictators discover Bitcoin?


We need to email these governments ourselves alerting them to bitcoin.

Sounds like a plan. How do you word it such that you get their interest but it doesn't sound like a 419 scam?

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September 02, 2011, 08:05:49 PM
 #24

When will him(assume he is still alive) or other dictators discover Bitcoin?


We need to email these governments ourselves alerting them to bitcoin.

Sounds like a plan. How do you word it such that you get their interest but it doesn't sound like a 419 scam?


Tell college students to tell their local drug dealer to tell their supplier.

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September 03, 2011, 01:02:42 AM
 #25

So by this I assume you support terrorism, tyranny and dictatorships?

So by this I assume you support propaganda, manipulation, false flag attacks, invading other people's countries and forcing them at gunpoint to do business with you under your terms?

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September 03, 2011, 03:03:17 AM
 #26

When will him(assume he is still alive) or other dictators discover Bitcoin?

How do you know they haven't?

It'd be foolish for them to store a significant percentage of their wealth in BTC right now (and the market cap clearly shows they're not), but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are a few dictators, kings, or other prominent characters who keep a hundred-k USD equivalent in BTC as an unfreezable slush fund in case they need to GTFO in a hurry.

Realistically, though, keeping a roll of USD or EUR in their briefcase is probably easier and safer for these guys.  It'd be inconvenient to find someone local to trade BTC to cash to buy airfare in the middle of a coup.

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September 03, 2011, 03:51:43 AM
 #27

Supposedly Libya has declared several billions of USD in gold reserves. And, guess what? It's not held in Switzerland, but in Libya. Moving it around and cashing it out as needed in this situation surely makes one wonder if Bitcoin would have made life easier.

As for all the dictatorship- and terrorism-related comments here, I wonder if anyone has actually visited Libya under Gaddafi, or these are just opinions based on CNN, Fox, BBC, Wikipedia, etc. I've never been there myself, but I happen to know several people who have - and I can tell you that things were more complex and more interesting than simply a "terrorist dictatorship". Since lots of negative facts and lies have already been thrown around, I will try to balance the view a bit. It was a secular system that provided free or heavily subsidized healthcare, education, and housing to its citizens. It was a country that invested in and successfully built vast infrastructure of water wells and pipelines, enabling farming in what would otherwise been a desert. It was among the most developed and prosperous countries in Africa, and as a consequence lots of people were leaving their homeland to work in Libya. Curiously, it was a country with almost no foreign debt and with significant reserves.
At least part of the trouble and radicalization was caused by the outside intervention of western countries who were displeased with this working example of socialism and with Gaddafi's support for Pan-Africanism that threatened to interfere with the continuing extraction of resources by foreigners.
It will be interesting to see how all these things change under the new government over the next few years. I predict strengthening of religious extremism, elimination of welfare, rapid rise in foreign debt, and privatization of water and oil resources and infrastructure.

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September 03, 2011, 11:37:11 AM
 #28

Supposedly Libya has declared several billions of USD in gold reserves. And, guess what? It's not held in Switzerland, but in Libya. Moving it around and cashing it out as needed in this situation surely makes one wonder if Bitcoin would have made life easier.

As for all the dictatorship- and terrorism-related comments here, I wonder if anyone has actually visited Libya under Gaddafi, or these are just opinions based on CNN, Fox, BBC, Wikipedia, etc. I've never been there myself, but I happen to know several people who have - and I can tell you that things were more complex and more interesting than simply a "terrorist dictatorship". Since lots of negative facts and lies have already been thrown around, I will try to balance the view a bit. It was a secular system that provided free or heavily subsidized healthcare, education, and housing to its citizens. It was a country that invested in and successfully built vast infrastructure of water wells and pipelines, enabling farming in what would otherwise been a desert. It was among the most developed and prosperous countries in Africa, and as a consequence lots of people were leaving their homeland to work in Libya. Curiously, it was a country with almost no foreign debt and with significant reserves.
At least part of the trouble and radicalization was caused by the outside intervention of western countries who were displeased with this working example of socialism and with Gaddafi's support for Pan-Africanism that threatened to interfere with the continuing extraction of resources by foreigners.
It will be interesting to see how all these things change under the new government over the next few years. I predict strengthening of religious extremism, elimination of welfare, rapid rise in foreign debt, and privatization of water and oil resources and infrastructure.


Arabic governments are usually quite xenophobic(towards presence of non-Islamic powers on Islamic territories), there is something about Gaddafi which distinguishes him from even other Arabic dictators that made them willing to support a Western military intervention.

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September 03, 2011, 08:57:29 PM
 #29

Arabic governments are usually quite xenophobic(towards presence of non-Islamic powers on Islamic territories), there is something about Gaddafi which distinguishes him from even other Arabic dictators that made them willing to support a Western military intervention.

I agree. Besides secularism, this alleged statement from 1998 may explain some of it:

Quote
"I had been crying slogans of Arab Unity and brandishing standard of Arab nationalism for 40 years, but it was not realised. That means that I was talking in the desert," Gaddafi told the Arab satellite television channel ANN this month. "I have no more time to lose talking with Arabs...I am returning back to realism...I now talk about Pan-Africanism and African Unity," he added.

"The Arab world is finished...Africa is a paradise...and it is full of natural resources like water, uranium, cobalt, iron, manganese," Gaddafi said in an apparent attempt to convince his compatriots.

Source: http://www.oocities.org/~dagmawi/News/News_Sep17_Gadhafi.html

One way or another, OP poses an important question that gets lost in moral arguments based mostly in PR campaigns of corporate media.  The Western leaders may also often be held responsible for terrible civilian atrocities all over the world - napalm, depleted uranium, cluster bombs - and they are more often then not extremely wealthy too. There is no real distinction there between them and Gaddafi, except maybe in numbers which may surprise you. The distinction is that currently they are in control of their plans and wealth, and he is not. Ergo, he is the one having problems managing his assets - and Bitcoin certainly seems like something worth considering.

So, can we try and take a disinterested look: how does Bitcoin compare to gold or cash as store of value for wealthy people who, due to the nature of their enterprise, are at risk of becoming wealthy fugitives?
Someone already pointed out that it's hard to beat a good old suitcase full of dollars - but in the long term there is the problem with inflation. Gold may correct for inflation, but then there is the issue of "value density" for those on the road - you currently get about $60 per gram of gold (as a fugitive much less than that), but $100 per gram of 100-dollar bills.
It's not fair to compare Bitcoin at this stage, but let's assume it is still the three years from now in its present form - not much regulation apart from the opinions of internal revenue agencies classifying it one way or another for tax purposes, serving some niche online and POS markets, mostly used as a store of value, and looking like it's there to stay. One undeniable advantage of Bitcoin would be the ease of transfer, physical or via network. One undeniable disadvantage would be traceability via block chain if your initial accumulation of coins was not carefully carried out.
Any other thoughts?

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oakpacific
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September 03, 2011, 10:29:22 PM
 #30

Arabic governments are usually quite xenophobic(towards presence of non-Islamic powers on Islamic territories), there is something about Gaddafi which distinguishes him from even other Arabic dictators that made them willing to support a Western military intervention.

I agree. Besides secularism, this alleged statement from 1998 may explain some of it:

Quote
"I had been crying slogans of Arab Unity and brandishing standard of Arab nationalism for 40 years, but it was not realised. That means that I was talking in the desert," Gaddafi told the Arab satellite television channel ANN this month. "I have no more time to lose talking with Arabs...I am returning back to realism...I now talk about Pan-Africanism and African Unity," he added.

"The Arab world is finished...Africa is a paradise...and it is full of natural resources like water, uranium, cobalt, iron, manganese," Gaddafi said in an apparent attempt to convince his compatriots.

Source: http://www.oocities.org/~dagmawi/News/News_Sep17_Gadhafi.html

One way or another, OP poses an important question that gets lost in moral arguments based mostly in PR campaigns of corporate media.  The Western leaders may also often be held responsible for terrible civilian atrocities all over the world - napalm, depleted uranium, cluster bombs - and they are more often then not extremely wealthy too. There is no real distinction there between them and Gaddafi, except maybe in numbers which may surprise you. The distinction is that currently they are in control of their plans and wealth, and he is not. Ergo, he is the one having problems managing his assets - and Bitcoin certainly seems like something worth considering.

So, can we try and take a disinterested look: how does Bitcoin compare to gold or cash as store of value for wealthy people who, due to the nature of their enterprise, are at risk of becoming wealthy fugitives?
Someone already pointed out that it's hard to beat a good old suitcase full of dollars - but in the long term there is the problem with inflation. Gold may correct for inflation, but then there is the issue of "value density" for those on the road - you currently get about $60 per gram of gold (as a fugitive much less than that), but $100 per gram of 100-dollar bills.
It's not fair to compare Bitcoin at this stage, but let's assume it is still the three years from now in its present form - not much regulation apart from the opinions of internal revenue agencies classifying it one way or another for tax purposes, serving some niche online and POS markets, mostly used as a store of value, and looking like it's there to stay. One undeniable advantage of Bitcoin would be the ease of transfer, physical or via network. One undeniable disadvantage would be traceability via block chain if your initial accumulation of coins was not carefully carried out.
Any other thoughts?


Well, I didn't agree with your first point actually, it was not what Gaddafi did before the rebel compels the West to intervene, it's what he did during the supression of it, the resolution of intervention got about 10 yes and 5 abstentions, and most importantly, no veto in the UNSC, the closest thing we have to a world consensus on such a issue in a long time.

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September 03, 2011, 10:45:10 PM
 #31

or these are just opinions based on CNN, Fox, BBC, Wikipedia, etc.

Around 2005-2006, plenty of posts on various infamous websites listed the then last 5 remaining countries without a Rothschild controlled central bank on this planet:

  • Cuba
  • Iran
  • Libya
  • North Korea
  • Sudan

Before 9/11, Iraq and Afghanistan were still on that list also.

Now i the light of recent events, make of it what you will, and look out for what the future will hold.

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September 03, 2011, 10:47:18 PM
 #32

or these are just opinions based on CNN, Fox, BBC, Wikipedia, etc.

Around 2005-2006, plenty of posts on various infamous websites listed the then last 5 remaining countries without a Rothschild controlled central bank on this planet:

  • Cuba
  • Iran
  • Libya
  • North Korea
  • Sudan

Before 9/11, Iraq and Afghanistan were still on that list also.

Now i the light of recent events, make of it what you will, and look out for what the future will hold.


David Icke was right!  The invasion was all about Illuminati bankers making a new world order!

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September 03, 2011, 11:18:16 PM
 #33

And by next year, the last remaining land will be
  • Bitcoinland

 Grin

But it will outlive them ofc.  Wink

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September 04, 2011, 12:45:48 AM
 #34

Gas was 17 cents a gallon in libya, they got free healthcare, free education, housing was a right and each new married couple got a house, their banking system was state owned, all loans were interest free, not to mention he was about to trade his oil for gold.  Libya has a higher standard of living than all of Africa, and higher than places such as Russia and Brazil.  Libya was also debt free.

all this will probably not exist anymore. Smiley

We live in a dictatorship in america, we're just given the illusion of choice.  At least those dictators put their country first.
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September 04, 2011, 01:25:54 AM
 #35

So, is Bitcoin a viable option for wealthy fugitives or not?  I'd say at this point the risk is too high due to fluctuating value and small capitalization, but in a year or two, if still around, Bitcoin would definitely be an option. However, this would be the right time for them to start mining instead of having to painstakingly try to acquire coins below the radar when block rewards diminish.

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September 04, 2011, 01:35:47 AM
 #36

Well, I didn't agree with your first point actually, it was not what Gaddafi did before the rebel compels the West to intervene, it's what he did during the supression of it, the resolution of intervention got about 10 yes and 5 abstentions, and most importantly, no veto in the UNSC, the closest thing we have to a world consensus on such a issue in a long time.

I know you didn't, but I did agree with your observation, and offered a different way of understanding it.

They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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