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Author Topic: Misrepresentation on UK Channel 4 news  (Read 1778 times)
Anonymailer
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September 01, 2011, 10:17:22 PM
 #1

Tonight's programme featured a section on the dark net, clearly using a press statement from the police as source material...

They highlighted Bitcoin as an 'anonymous' 'untraceable' currency used by traffickers of illegal goods. (A bit late to the misinformation party right?)

You can view it here:
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

or read the article version here:
http://www.channel4.com/news/dark-web-the-internet-behind-our-own

I've made a politely worded corrective complaint and request for a correction on tomorrow's show. Maybe a few more would make it a little more likely!

edit: the email for complaints is:
news@channel4.com

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September 01, 2011, 11:06:27 PM
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Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
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September 01, 2011, 11:13:38 PM
 #3

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) Wink

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September 01, 2011, 11:31:29 PM
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Tobacco is a drug, albeit a legal one.  Grin

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September 01, 2011, 11:33:02 PM
 #5

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) Wink

That's exactly what onesalt was saying

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September 01, 2011, 11:33:59 PM
 #6

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) Wink

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.
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September 01, 2011, 11:37:32 PM
 #7

lol I saw that and wondered if anyone would comment about it on here.

I love how they suggested that TOR was some evil, hard to acquire tool so you could access Silk Road or whatever. But heck I guess the article will get some more people interested in Bitcoins regardless of what their intentions are. Atleast they acknowledged (sort of) the fact that regular currency can be used to purchase drugs, child porn and other illegal stuff; many other reports seem to totally dismiss this fact.

I also wish they would have showed the good things that you can use Bitcoins for as well... although I suppose an unbiased article is a little too much to ask of the main stream media  Roll Eyes But yeah... I think they are about 4 months too late on the whole Deepweb/Bitcoin thing..... I guess it must have been a slow news day.

Plus that 'woman' in charge of combatting e-crime (something along those lines) made me chuckle... she couldn't have looked more like a man...

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September 01, 2011, 11:38:52 PM
 #8

Tobacco is a drug, albeit a legal one.  Grin

Lol I was going to say that Tongue
Pardon my ignorance BitBacco but don't you need a license to legally sell tobacco?

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September 02, 2011, 12:12:55 AM
 #9

Tobacco is a drug, albeit a legal one.  Grin

Lol I was going to say that Tongue
Pardon my ignorance BitBacco but don't you need a license to legally sell tobacco?
Not in England, see the tobacco retailers alliance law page:
http://www.tobaccoretailersalliance.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=19

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September 02, 2011, 12:14:17 AM
 #10

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) Wink

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.
Does that mean you'll give me 5BTC if I can prove I'm not, and what would that entail? I'm trading as a Sole Trader in the UK. I count my expenses and when I sell BTC for fiat I will account for that as taxable income.

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September 02, 2011, 07:49:47 AM
 #11

Tonight's programme featured a section on the dark net, clearly using a press statement from the police as source material...

They highlighted Bitcoin as an 'anonymous' 'untraceable' currency used by traffickers of illegal goods. (A bit late to the misinformation party right?)

You can view it here:
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

or read the article version here:
http://www.channel4.com/news/dark-web-the-internet-behind-our-own

I've made a politely worded corrective complaint and request for a correction on tomorrow's show. Maybe a few more would make it a little more likely!

Where the hell do we send the complaint? That would kind of help because I've been looking for 10 minutes and cant find so much as an email address....
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September 02, 2011, 07:54:01 AM
 #12


Where the hell do we send the complaint? That would kind of help because I've been looking for 10 minutes and cant find so much as an email address....
ah sorry I meant to include that! The email address is news@channel4.com

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September 02, 2011, 06:45:18 PM
 #13

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) Wink

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.
Does that mean you'll give me 5BTC if I can prove I'm not, and what would that entail? I'm trading as a Sole Trader in the UK. I count my expenses and when I sell BTC for fiat I will account for that as taxable income.

I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...
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September 02, 2011, 06:54:50 PM
 #14

I don't think there was anything misrepresentative about that story.


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September 02, 2011, 06:56:28 PM
 #15

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) Wink

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.
Does that mean you'll give me 5BTC if I can prove I'm not, and what would that entail? I'm trading as a Sole Trader in the UK. I count my expenses and when I sell BTC for fiat I will account for that as taxable income.

I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...

In some countries law is less crazy than in others. Imagine that!

He does not have to prove anything.

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September 02, 2011, 07:07:20 PM
 #16

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) Wink

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.
Does that mean you'll give me 5BTC if I can prove I'm not, and what would that entail? I'm trading as a Sole Trader in the UK. I count my expenses and when I sell BTC for fiat I will account for that as taxable income.

I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...

In some countries law is less crazy than in others. Imagine that!

He does not have to prove anything.


Of course he doesn't have to prove anything. He can take my bet or leave it. I really doubt tobacco sales is unregulated in the UK.
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September 02, 2011, 07:09:30 PM
 #17


Of course he doesn't have to prove anything. He can take my bet or leave it. I really doubt tobacco sales is unregulated in the UK.

No one cares about tobacco sales in the UK. I've seen uniformed cops buying smuggled cigarettes at streetcorner vendors in London.

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September 02, 2011, 07:11:18 PM
 #18

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-14737030 --someone cares.

I have smoked dope with dozens of cops. They are people too. That doesn't mean it's not illegal.
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September 02, 2011, 07:25:19 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-14737030 --someone cares.

I have smoked dope with dozens of cops. They are people too. That doesn't mean it's not illegal.

Point taken.  Wink


I was under the impression Londinstan operates under a different jurisdiction.

Don't ask me. I saw that as a tourist about a decade ago. I don't know if things have changed under Sharia Law.

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September 02, 2011, 07:27:32 PM
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I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...
Clearly you didn't follow the link I posted above, and I quote
"In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, retailers DO NOT need a licence to sell tobacco"
From the UK tobacco retailers alliance.

As long as UK Duty is paid on the cigarettes (which it is before I buy them) and I declare my income as a sole trader I'm totally legal.

Can I get that 5BTC now?  Grin

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September 02, 2011, 07:39:49 PM
 #21


I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...
Clearly you didn't follow the link I posted above, and I quote
"In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, retailers DO NOT need a licence to sell tobacco"
From the UK tobacco retailers alliance.

As long as UK Duty is paid on the cigarettes (which it is before I buy them) and I declare my income as a sole trader I'm totally legal.

Can I get that 5BTC now?  Grin

I totally didn't see that link. What about Scotland and Ireland?

I am blown away that there is no permitting in England. How in the fuck can they enforce anything with negative permitting?
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September 02, 2011, 07:46:35 PM
 #22

Considering now much excise taxes they take on those fags (meaning cigarettes) I am not surprised that they allow everyone and their mother to sell it.

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September 02, 2011, 08:01:35 PM
 #23

I totally didn't see that link. What about Scotland and Ireland?

I am blown away that there is no permitting in England. How in the fuck can they enforce anything with negative permitting?

Scotland - currently it's still legal, but from October 1st you'd need to 'register' to sell tobacco from there - I'm not sure that's quite the same as a license though

Ireland I'm not sure, they have their own set of laws there!

I'm not sure what a license would help enforce? As Vladimir said tax on tobacco here is really high - higher than anywhere else in Europe - and shops would still be prosecuted if it was found they were selling cheap 'duty-free' cigarettes or doing anything else they shouldn't be.

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September 02, 2011, 08:05:10 PM
 #24

I totally didn't see that link. What about Scotland and Ireland?

I am blown away that there is no permitting in England. How in the fuck can they enforce anything with negative permitting?

Scotland - currently it's still legal, but from October 1st you'd need to 'register' to sell tobacco from there - I'm not sure that's quite the same as a license though

Ireland I'm not sure, they have their own set of laws there!

I'm not sure what a license would help enforce? As Vladimir said tax on tobacco here is really high - higher than anywhere else in Europe - and shops would still be prosecuted if it was found they were selling cheap 'duty-free' cigarettes or doing anything else they shouldn't be.

So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.
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September 02, 2011, 08:07:05 PM
 #25

Since Bitcoins don't have a minimum age limit can you prove your customers aren't underage? Beucase if not you're most likely gonna get fined so much for it.
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September 02, 2011, 08:08:39 PM
 #26

Since Bitcoins don't have a minimum age limit can you prove your customers aren't underage? Beucase if not you're most likely gonna get fined so much for it.

By who? From where?

I was arguing the technical side. It's not like anyone could actually enforce it.
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September 02, 2011, 08:12:24 PM
 #27


So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.
Awesome, so there is some honour on the bitcoin forums  Wink Thanks!

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September 02, 2011, 08:13:37 PM
 #28

Since Bitcoins don't have a minimum age limit can you prove your customers aren't underage? Beucase if not you're most likely gonna get fined so much for it.

By who? From where?

I was arguing the technical side. It's not like anyone could actually enforce it.
Yeah, they have the same problem with cards - you have to have the warning that you're not allowed to buy it underage but other than that there's not a lot you can do.

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September 02, 2011, 08:29:22 PM
 #29

Back to the OP:

Any press is good press.  I first became aware of Bitcoin because of the Silk Road article on Gizmodo.

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September 02, 2011, 08:36:41 PM
 #30

Since Bitcoins don't have a minimum age limit can you prove your customers aren't underage? Beucase if not you're most likely gonna get fined so much for it.

By who? From where?

I was arguing the technical side. It's not like anyone could actually enforce it.
Yeah, they have the same problem with cards - you have to have the warning that you're not allowed to buy it underage but other than that there's not a lot you can do.

Well no it's more of an issue since Banks will keep details on you such as your age and suchlike, and to get a credit or debit card most banks have a minimum age which in a lot of cases is 18.

On the other hand, any 12 year old could pick up a bitcoin client if he wanted to.
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September 02, 2011, 08:49:44 PM
 #31


So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.
Awesome, so there is some honour on the bitcoin forums  Wink Thanks!

Here we go:
15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

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September 03, 2011, 12:43:15 AM
 #32

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) Wink

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.
Does that mean you'll give me 5BTC if I can prove I'm not, and what would that entail? I'm trading as a Sole Trader in the UK. I count my expenses and when I sell BTC for fiat I will account for that as taxable income.

I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...

In some countries law is less crazy than in others. Imagine that!

He does not have to prove anything.


Of course he doesn't have to prove anything. He can take my bet or leave it. I really doubt tobacco sales is unregulated in the UK.
Why do you doubt that? Tobacco sales are unregulated here in Sweden too. The very idea that it would be regulated baffles me, I've never heard of such a thing.

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September 03, 2011, 12:52:26 AM
 #33

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.
You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) Wink

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.
Does that mean you'll give me 5BTC if I can prove I'm not, and what would that entail? I'm trading as a Sole Trader in the UK. I count my expenses and when I sell BTC for fiat I will account for that as taxable income.

I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...

In some countries law is less crazy than in others. Imagine that!

He does not have to prove anything.


Of course he doesn't have to prove anything. He can take my bet or leave it. I really doubt tobacco sales is unregulated in the UK.
Why do you doubt that? Tobacco sales are unregulated here in Sweden too. The very idea that it would be regulated baffles me, I've never heard of such a thing.

Because if there are laws regarding the sale, distribution, and taxation of a product, there is normally an infrastructure to enforce it.
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September 06, 2011, 12:32:13 AM
 #34


So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.
Awesome, so there is some honour on the bitcoin forums  Wink Thanks!

Here we go:
15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

http://blockexplorer.com/address/15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3
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September 06, 2011, 01:13:58 AM
 #35


So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.
Awesome, so there is some honour on the bitcoin forums  Wink Thanks!

Here we go:
15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

You should have a shiny new 2.5btc. I am not fooling around...when I call people out on bets, I am serious about it.

Well.. half serious... which is better than mybitcoin's 49%. 
Given that this bet was pretty informal and it wasn't immediately obvious when both parties accepted the bet.. I guess we can forgive you that.

That observers like me can verify this little wager exchange so easily via the blockchain is a really nice aspect of bitcoin. Thanks for the demo you two Smiley

@electricwings   BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd
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