So I asked Digitally Imported.fm, about Bitcoin...

[lenny_]

I wroted an e-mail to di.fm, (Digitally Imported Radio) http://www.di.fm/, one of the best online radio with like 40 or so online music stations with different electronic music. They also have an amazing Premium subscription service, which I think can use Bitcoin payments really well.

I asked them, what they think about Bitcoin payments and if they are planning to implement it.

That's what I received:

Hi,

There's some issues with normal business practices, such as refunds, subscriptions, etc. that make it difficult to support it as a payment method. I suppose if people using bitcoin want to waive their normal rights as a consumer, which is not allowed by law, it might be possible.

Also the inherent volatility of the currency is an issue. If you paid 0.1BTC for a year, and requested a refund, you might get 0.05BTC back, as we operate with USD as the main currency.

All-in-all, it's a decision that has been made at the top of the company.

Regards,
Esko Gardner
DI Support

Tickets will automatically be closed thirty days after the last reply.

How I should respond to them? What you guys think about it, is there any thing I should mention to make them reconsider this decision?
Maybe one of you should write to them as well, I know you guys can persuade them better than me.

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[whtchocla7e]

Seems like a reasonable reply.

[exstasie]

Nice, cool you reached out!  Haven't paid for DI subscription in a while, but would consider buying if they accepted bitcoins.
Though DI does make some good points at this time. Something they will definitely need to consider if they want to offer it.  At least they know what BTC is and seem quite knowledgeable about it.

[traderCJ]

That Overstock CEO seems to have a hard-on for Bitcoin.  Not sure if he wants to divulge their secrets, but he would do the community a big favor by explaining Overstock's approach to these real problems.

[Gabi]

Their choice. The competition won't wait 

[Melbustus]

That Overstock CEO seems to have a hard-on for Bitcoin.  Not sure if he wants to divulge their secrets, but he would do the community a big favor by explaining Overstock's approach to these real problems.

Well, Overstock is initially offering returns as store-credit, so that solves that issue. Additionally, they don't offer any subscription service, AFAIK, so that removes the other concern.

Subscription services are indeed different beasts. Not sure if BitPay or Coinbase offer subscriptions yet, but if not, they'll figure it out. The solution will likely involve opening a hosted-wallet with the subscription-integration provider (CB, Bitpay, etc) and allowing the service you're buying to request payments out of your wallet periodically through the provider's API.

That'd be fine for small amounts of money.

Even better would be a client-side service like Blockchain.info allowing users to pre-sign transactions that will then be submitted to the network monthly or whatever. Obviously the signed transactions would have to be centrally stored, but this still results in more control/containment of my money than a fully hosted wallet.

[BitchicksHusband]

That Overstock CEO seems to have a hard-on for Bitcoin.  Not sure if he wants to divulge their secrets, but he would do the community a big favor by explaining Overstock's approach to these real problems.

Well, Overstock is initially offering returns as store-credit, so that solves that issue. Additionally, they don't offer any subscription service, AFAIK, so that removes the other concern.

Subscription services are indeed different beasts. Not sure if BitPay or Coinbase offer subscriptions yet, but if not, they'll figure it out. The solution will likely involve opening a hosted-wallet with the subscription-integration provider (CB, Bitpay, etc) and allowing the service you're buying to request payments out of your wallet periodically through the provider's API.

That'd be fine for small amounts of money.

Even better would be a client-side service like Blockchain.info allowing users to pre-sign transactions that will then be submitted to the network monthly or whatever. Obviously the signed transactions would have to be centrally stored, but this still results in more control/containment of my money than a fully hosted wallet.

Coinbase has done subscription payments since May 15 (you would need a Coinbase account):

http://blog.coinbase.com/post/50530790639/coinbase-launches-subscription-payments


And I don't know if you guys saw, but my wife (Bitchick) accidentally paid double for her item at Overstock.com.  We'll see what happens with getting a refund on that.

[Abdussamad]

The volatility argument just does not fly. You price your products in USD and your refund is also priced in USD at the current market rate. How exactly do these companies deal with foreign fiat currencies? Do they complain about the difference in Euro/dollar rates between now and the time of a refund?

[exstasie]

The volatility argument just does not fly. You price your products in USD and your refund is also priced in USD at the current market rate. How exactly do these companies deal with foreign fiat currencies? Do they complain about the difference in Euro/dollar rates between now and the time of a refund?

Well I guess the issue would be if I paid 0.1BTC for a 1 year subscription, and I notice that the price of BTC has gone up 10x after 6 months.  I will obviously cancel my subscription to get the 0.05BTC at the inflated rate.  They need to figure out how to convert the current price, and return the current value of BTC back, so 0.005 back.  Just some things to consider.

[Abdussamad]

The volatility argument just does not fly. You price your products in USD and your refund is also priced in USD at the current market rate. How exactly do these companies deal with foreign fiat currencies? Do they complain about the difference in Euro/dollar rates between now and the time of a refund?

Well I guess the issue would be if I paid 0.1BTC for a 1 year subscription, and I notice that the price of BTC has gone up 10x after 6 months.  I will obviously cancel my subscription to get the 0.05BTC at the inflated rate.  They need to figure out how to convert the current price, and return the current value of BTC back, so 0.005 back.  Just some things to consider.

What you are saying doesn't make any sense. You spent 0.1 but cancel to get 0.05???

[subcoin]

If you paid 0.1BTC for a year, and requested a refund, you might get 0.05BTC back

2 Solutions:

Simple: make your services non-refundable.

Complicated:  pro-rate refunds (exchange rate doesn't matter)
Exp: guy paid 0.12 BTC for 1 year, 9 months later requests the refund
and gets 0.03 BTC (1/4 of original amount, since 3/4 of time spent).
Just issue that refund in BTC - no matter what the exchange rate is.
For this just need to keep a BTC account with (3-5% of total)

BTW. Love DI.fm!
Listening to Lounge right now.
Pretty much the same for the last 10 years.

[LiteCoinGuy]

If you paid 0.1BTC for a year, and requested a refund, you might get 0.05BTC back

2 Solutions:

Simple: make your services non-refundable.

Complicated:  pro-rate refunds (exchange rate doesn't matter)
Exp: guy paid 0.12 BTC for 1 year, 9 months later requests the refund
and gets 0.03 BTC (1/4 of original amount, since 3/4 of time spent).
Just issue that refund in BTC - no matter what the exchange rate is.
For this just need to keep a BTC account with (3-5% of total)

BTW. Love DI.fm!
Listening to Lounge right now.
Pretty much the same for the last 10 years.

just calculate in dollar. he paid 1 btc and that was 100 USD one year before and now its 0,1 btc ? he gets back 100 usd. simple.