Central Banks could EASILY destroy Bitcoin (if they want)

[michielnl]

All, as OP thanks for feedback and discussion.
I am less worried now on my long position on BTC :-)

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[SirWilliam]

Actors with unlimited purchasing power can determine prices fully:
http://stocks.about.com/od/gettingstarted/a/041711-How-To-Legally-Manipulate-Stock-Prices.htm

Haha what nonsense. That article is totally irrelevant, did you even read it? First of all it is about manipulating individual stocks on a stock exchange. Secondly the article is extremely vague and basic. Thirdly it starts by saying "A big institutional investor (hedge funds, mutual funds, insurance companies, and so on) picks a stock that it owns and begins selling." So the central banks ALREADY OWN 40 billion of bitcoins??? Wow they own more bitcoins than actually exist!

Plus the article is about how to manipulate stocks UPWARD to sell at a profit.

Man some of y'all got to be Sockpuppet trolls... The quality of the anti-bitcoin flames and wannabe panic starting threads is really low here, but they do make up for it with quantity...


See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Voice

[guybrushthreepwood]

Pretty sure printing that much money would destroy the economy rather than Bitcoin.

[SirWilliam]

July 9, 2010: When someone tries to buy all the world’s supply of a scarce asset, the more they buy the higher the price goes. At some point, it gets too expensive for them to buy any more. It’s great for the people who owned it beforehand because they get to sell it to the corner at crazy high prices. As the price keeps going up and up, some people keep holding out for yet higher prices and refuse to sell. The Hunt brothers famously bankrupted themselves trying to corner the silver market in 1979.

Always interesting to see mr.Nakamotos opinion-.....

http://crypt.la/2014/01/06/satoshi-nakamoto-quotes/

It is not about buy it all, but to manipulate the price.
They buy on current prices and then dump it with large volume and take losses (since they can afford to).
This will scare most investors who will leave.

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU??? HOW IN THE NAME OF CHRIST CAN YOU BUY $40 Billion of bitcoins at $900 each??? Hahahhaaaaa you are hilarious. I don't know if you are just trolling or you really have no idea that there are buy and sell orders for limited amounts of bitcoins on the exchanges. I would guess trolling...

[kisa2005]

Central banks might at some point in the distant future wellcome crypto currencies because when governments start collect taxes from bitcoin ecosystem in bitcoins, this would help resolving their (governments) fiat debt overhang problem... ultimately US, Europe and Japan could decrease the real value of their debts using BTC. Once again, Debt: The first 5000 years, debts won't be truly repaid. Hence any lenders beware, or you might be late on BTC train... In the meantime, all US, Europe and Japan are fighting the deflation ghost. E.g. if and when BTC ecosystem becomes worth 100bn USD, some central banks will have these 100bn helping their inflation targeting more then the ohers...

Also, building up at least some BTC reserves might be sensible policy for central banks and sovereign wealth funds to smoothen the future wealth redistribution effects created by cryptos...

[michielnl]

"WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU??? HOW IN THE NAME OF CHRIST CAN YOU BUY $40 Billion of bitcoins at $900 each??? Hahahhaaaaa you are hilarious. I don't know if you are just trolling or you really have no idea that there are buy and sell orders for limited amounts of bitcoins on the exchanges. I would guess trolling..."

:-) I did not say that they would buy 40 bln in one time.
They could buy slow in low volumes and then dump it all at once.
Again and again.
Each time causing a small crash.
This is how you could manipulate a price in all kind of markets.

[lemfuture]

if they're buying im gladly selling and move on to infinite alt coins, hoping they would buy em too

[Isildur23]

It is not that easy to just print dollars   Just imagine how much people would involve a conspiration like this! If they wanted and could do something like that, they would have done a lot more nasty things (not going in details here) which they obviously didn't. Relax

[undeadbitcoiner]

-> "alot easyer just to ban it, not to buy it."
i think it is much, much easier to just change a number on a system somewhere to create 40 bln easily and get rid of the BTC in a few hours. no effort needed on politics, legal stuff, etc etc

-> "How would this destroy Bitcoin? Bitcoin existed long before there was any analog-money numbers associated with it."
they would buy it for 900 USD and then sell it for 0.000001 USD on large volumes, this would effectively destroy it. all miners would stop, etc etc

** let me confirm I am currently LONG on BTC, I am just stating this (hopefully unlikely?) scenario **

Are you crazy?
ok lets accept your fucking theory then who will gain?
They will buy in 900$ from Bitcoiners and sell in .000001 again then who is going to buy? Of course we again it mean we will gain all.
No crypto is going tp be destroyed but we could make our market capital similar to some single countrys GDP.

[BurtW]

I believe what he is trying to say is they buy BTC up to a high price then dump all their BTC causing the price to crash.  Then buy it back up to a high price, then dump it and cause it to crash.  Rinse, repeat until they burn through their 40 billion dollars budgeted for their evil "Bitcoin Destruction Plan"

I hope an pray they start doing this.  I will simply sell into them at the high price and buy back on the crashes - THANKS idiot government for the USD.

Seriously, they will not do this because it will just make a bunch of BTC traders rich beyond their wildest dreams.

And it would not destroy Bitcoin.  It would only make it stonger.

[ouwe]

"WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU??? HOW IN THE NAME OF CHRIST CAN YOU BUY $40 Billion of bitcoins at $900 each??? Hahahhaaaaa you are hilarious. I don't know if you are just trolling or you really have no idea that there are buy and sell orders for limited amounts of bitcoins on the exchanges. I would guess trolling..."

:-) I did not say that they would buy 40 bln in one time.
They could buy slow in low volumes and then dump it all at once.
Again and again.
Each time causing a small crash.
This is how you could manipulate a price in all kind of markets.

** I am long on BTC, but wanted to check / discuss this scenario **

 "The Hunt brothers famously bankrupted themselves trying to corner the silver market¨ ...(s.n.)

change huntbrothers for :fed,   and fill in bitcoin for: silver....what do you read now?

[begcoin]

The biggest threats to bitcoin are existing tech firms deciding to compete.
 
Who is to say apple or google arent going to bring out a coin at some point that instantly has 100 million users within a week?
 
Any coin that is more accessible to newcomers aswell as existing banking institutions could clean up, make bitcoin look prehistoric.  Buying or selling bitcoin, using it to buy goods or services, could be a hell of a lot easier, the time will come when something will be.

[michielnl]

FYI

1. When the FED would dump high volumes and create crashes there is also an effect of market capitulation.
This market capitulation would effectively destroy the Bitcoin.
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/189.asp

2. Here the FED is accused of lowering the gold price
(Fortunately, with Bitcoin we  do not have "paper BTC" ... like gold has paper gold)

http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/markets/item/15116-after-gold-crash-experts-point-to-central-bank-manipulation

After Gold Crash, Experts Point to Central Bank Manipulation

In the wake of gold prices cratering in recent days, more than a few prominent experts have already started pinning the blame on Western central banks — especially the Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank (ECB). According to numerous analysts, the central bankers are desperate to salvage their fiat currencies and eliminate competition as "monetary authorities" continue to create ever-greater quantities of euros and dollars out of thin air.

Some experts, whistleblowers, traders, and former officials say the Fed dumped as much as 400 or even 500 tons of “paper gold” on the market — metals that it might not even have — as part of a naked short sale aimed at driving down the prices. Other analysts, especially among the establishment, pointed to the ECB chief’s recent suggestion that struggling European authorities in countries such as Cyprus would have to sell their precious metals to keep receiving bailouts.

Economist Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, assistant treasury secretary during the Reagan administration and former editor of the Wall Street Journal, is one of many experts who argue that the recent collapse in gold and silver prices was carefully orchestrated by the Fed and a coalition of allied mega-banks. In a widely cited analysis of the recent plunge in precious metals entitled “Assault On Gold Update,” he said the U.S. central bank was “rigging all markets” — bond prices, interest rates, and of course, the bullion market.

[mindfulmojo]

I think the central banks could take over bitcoin, or any other alt coin, if they wanted to.

They know it too... This actually reassures me though that bitcoin will not be banned, if they have control they are happy.

They can make an unlimited amount of fiat currency... Fractional reserve banking is the ultimate power (for now).

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws." Mater Amschel Rothschild, founder of the Rothschild banking dynasty.

[whtchocla7e]

What if Satoshi was a fictional character created by the Central Bank?

[ouwe]

What if Satoshi was a fictional character created by the Central Bank?

"

dont think so
CB´s dont like honest money...

[BurtW]

What if Satoshi was a fictional character created by the Central Bank?

Right.  I am out of here.  Stupid thread.

[Coin_Master]

It is not about buy it all, but to manipulate the price.
They buy on current prices and then dump it with large volume and take losses (since they can afford to).
This will scare most investors who will leave.

Just who is going to buy back 'all' this Bitcoin?  It may be easy for 'Actors with unlimited purchasing power' to buy Bitcoin, but that does not mean they will be able to sell it.  You clearly have no idea how a market works.  Price is determined by supply and demand.  'Actors with unlimited purchasing power' cannot change the supply, as this is set by the difficulty of the network.  The only way to lower the price would be to reduce demand, 'Economics 101'.
I find it laughable, how so many people hear about Bitcoin, then all of a sudden think they are market guru's and economists.

[mindfulmojo]

It is not about buy it all, but to manipulate the price.
They buy on current prices and then dump it with large volume and take losses (since they can afford to).
This will scare most investors who will leave.

Just who is going to buy back 'all' this Bitcoin?  It may be easy for 'Actors with unlimited purchasing power' to buy Bitcoin, but that does not mean they will be able to sell it.  You clearly have no idea how a market works.  Price is determined by supply and demand.  'Actors with unlimited purchasing power' cannot change the supply, as this is set by the difficulty of the network.  The only way to lower the price would be to reduce demand, 'Economics 101'.
I find it laughable, how so many people hear about Bitcoin, then all of a sudden think they are market guru's and economists.

No, the market is not always determined by supply and demand. Look what happened to gold and silver over the past year. The price dropped, demand went sky high, and the priced dropped more.

It is very much possible to manipulate markets...

The same people that sell something, can be the same people that buy it at the same time.

They would take a loss... but they wouldn't care. What's more or less fiat currency to a central banker?

[Coin_Master]

No, the market is not always determined by supply and demand. Look what happened to gold and silver over the past year. The price dropped, demand went sky high, and the priced dropped more.

It is very much possible to manipulate markets...

The same people that sell something, can be the same people that buy it at the same time.

They would take a loss... but they wouldn't care. What's more or less fiat currency to a central banker?

You cannot compare a commodity like 'gold' that has an 'unregulated supply' to Bitcoin that 'has a regulated supply'.  What I said is correct, you are trying to compare things that cannot be compared.  (Again, people without qualifications becoming self proclaimed experts overnight)