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Author Topic: Beyond Bitcoin: Decentralising other public institutions  (Read 3067 times)
Surawit
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September 02, 2011, 08:35:15 PM
 #1

Since the time of Adam Smith, man has grappled with the problem of fiat currency. Finally, in 2009 this was solved with Satashi Nakamoto's bitcoin.  We can all agree that bitcoin is the currency of the FUTURE, or at least that it is at least a great improvement FLAWED currencies of the past.

So, here is my idea. Bitcoin on its own has the potential to be REVOLUTIONARY. But why stop there? Why can't we apply the bitcoin paradigm of decentralised cryptographically secure authority to other aspects of society, and reap the benefits? This thread is partly just to toss around some of my ideas (I'm sure there are people reading with the technical know-how, these guys will get this stuff on the ground)

Idea number one (I will only post one at a time to prevent clogging this topic up)
1. Crypto-healthcare. Participants publically post their symptoms and a "health address". Anyone can submit a diagnosis and treatment plan (there would need to be a system of codes to denote these) to this address, which is then checked by other peers on the network to make sure it is valid. When it is verified, your address, diagnosis and treatment plan are added to the "health chain". Then you can simply drop into any pharmacist who has a copy of the "health chain" and pick up the required drugs.

Please add your own ideas or critique mine, thanks

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September 03, 2011, 09:12:29 PM
 #2

I had an idea for a distributed wireless Internet where each user is also an ISP.

You basically run your computer and allow relay of traffic over your wireless network. You get paid for the amount of packets that come through your network and you pay for using the network. This would encourage people to soup up their transceivers to get as much traffic to pass through their node. It would also give incentive to websites to provide content that would get a lot of traffic outside of advertising.

This would eliminate ISPs, government interference with ISPs, censorship, etc.

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September 03, 2011, 10:06:39 PM
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I think miners have a lot of extra hard disc space, so some kind of hosting...
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September 03, 2011, 10:13:22 PM
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File sharing.. but.. peer to peer somehow.  It just might work.

Stephen Gornick
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September 03, 2011, 10:56:52 PM
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Why can't we apply the bitcoin paradigm of decentralised cryptographically secure authority to other aspects of society, and reap the benefits? This thread is partly just to toss around some of my ideas

The title reads "public institutions", but then you used an example of medicine which is still somewhat a privatize industry in certain parts of the world.

As far as decentralized, there is recent news that AirBNB's model of decentralized room rental for allowing homeowners and apartment dwellers to compete against hotels is now adding sublet (i.e. monthly) rental as well: http://mashable.com/2011/09/01/airbnb-monthly-rentals-sublets
i.e., decentralization is an approach that is spreading and can grow further.

There's an amazing amount of innovation happening where decentralization is occurring.  See this list of organizations, for example:
 - http://www.collaborativeconsumption.com/the-movement/snapshot-of-examples.php

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September 03, 2011, 11:21:27 PM
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After a monetary system I'm most interested in decentralized internet, which I think could be achieved with mesh networking, and decentralized energy with high efficiency photovoltaics or something like that.
Surawit
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September 03, 2011, 11:33:50 PM
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After a monetary system I'm most interested in decentralized internet, which I think could be achieved with mesh networking, and decentralized energy with high efficiency photovoltaics or something like that.
This is a great idea. Instead of having to pay for expensive hosting at a data center (OK its not too expensive, I pay around $20 a month with Dreamhost).... Why can't we develop a protocol through which you could host your own website, from your home internet? Tech nerds, is this feasible? That would really open the web up IMO.

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September 04, 2011, 12:45:52 AM
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These are all some of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard. Wisdom of the crowds only works when people actually have an idea what they're talking about. It takes years of training to become a competent doctor and suggesting that by asking 200 people how to cure a rare and relatively unknown disease the correct treatment plan will emerge is just plain lunacy. The psuedo internet thing is dumb as fucking hell as well because it encourages website owners to make their websites as big and ineffecient as they possibly can so that more packets get sent. You can't compete against it because lawsuits against people who infringe on their IP makes them the sole provider for whatever it is they're doing. It's the stupidest fucking idea because it'd directly go against every single fucking thing the internet is designed upon.
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September 04, 2011, 12:55:23 AM
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Wow, it's getting super-critical in here, but if you believe in yourself your idea you have to go ahead anyway.

I have a plan to revolutionize the institution of bitcoin and the institution of collectible My Little Pony toys and figurines.  I'm still working out the details, but the basic idea is to establish a bitcoin exchange that will exchange not only between currency and bitcoin, but also My Little Ponies.

The ultimate goal is to use the ponies as the physical manifestation of bitcoins.  Since in person transactions are difficult in a traditional bitcoin situation, a physical token would often be more convenient.  My Little Ponies are an excellent choice because they are already valuable collectors items with intrinsic value.  Like gold, they are pretty to look at, and are often shiny and sparkly.  

There are a wide range of denominations available, from the rare and expensive flutter ponies:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MLP-My-Little-Pony-Flutter-Wings-WINGSONG-Wing-Song-/310297260601?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483f287239

or the My Little Pony McDonalds Complete G4 Set 2011

http://www.bonanza.com/listings/My-Little-Pony-McDonalds-Complete-G4-Set-2011/40390065

To the more common toys you can find at any store for a few bucks.  And that's the beauty of this plan, should you need to quickly convert your dollars into bitcoins there are now locations all over the world where you can do it quickly and easily with no hassle. There is no danger of the supply of ponies running out of control because each generation of ponies is always released by Hasboro on a careful, gradual schedule and only made for a limited time. This is just a general outline of my plan, but every revolution has to start somewhere.

If you would like to donate bitcoins or ponies to help me get started, feel free to send a message!

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September 04, 2011, 01:10:28 AM
 #10

After a monetary system I'm most interested in decentralized internet

i think this is highly important, very close in importance to a decentralized money system.

there is currently far too much control in the hands of isps/registrars/hosts (and ultimately governments).
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September 04, 2011, 01:16:54 AM
 #11

I have a plan to revolutionize the institution of bitcoin and the institution of collectible My Little Pony toys and figurines.  I'm still working out the details, but the basic idea is to establish a bitcoin exchange that will exchange not only between currency and bitcoin, but also My Little Ponies.

The ultimate goal is to use the ponies as the physical manifestation of bitcoins.  Since in person transactions are difficult in a traditional bitcoin situation, a physical token would often be more convenient.  My Little Ponies are an excellent choice because they are already valuable collectors items with intrinsic value.  Like gold, they are pretty to look at, and are often shiny and sparkly. 

I agree 100%!  Associating bitcoins with another well established group will help to raise their legitimacy in the public eye.  Just think, with this one small step you could link bitcoins with this fine slice of humanity:

1KKptP9dKU6mZ6DkmwTmPERG7je7rStiuR

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September 04, 2011, 01:21:52 AM
 #12

Quote
I agree 100%!  Associating bitcoins with another well established group will help to raise their legitimacy in the public eye.  Just think, with this one small step you could link bitcoins with this fine slice of humanity:

Thanks!  I was worried I wasn't going to get a positive response after how some of the other ideas here were received. Grin

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Surawit
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September 04, 2011, 01:23:05 AM
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Wow, it's getting super-critical in here, but if you believe in yourself your idea you have to go ahead anyway.

I have a plan to revolutionize the institution of bitcoin and the institution of collectible My Little Pony toys and figurines.  I'm still working out the details, but the basic idea is to establish a bitcoin exchange that will exchange not only between currency and bitcoin, but also My Little Ponies.

The ultimate goal is to use the ponies as the physical manifestation of bitcoins.  Since in person transactions are difficult in a traditional bitcoin situation, a physical token would often be more convenient.  My Little Ponies are an excellent choice because they are already valuable collectors items with intrinsic value.  Like gold, they are pretty to look at, and are often shiny and sparkly.  

There are a wide range of denominations available, from the rare and expensive flutter ponies:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MLP-My-Little-Pony-Flutter-Wings-WINGSONG-Wing-Song-/310297260601?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483f287239

or the My Little Pony McDonalds Complete G4 Set 2011

http://www.bonanza.com/listings/My-Little-Pony-McDonalds-Complete-G4-Set-2011/40390065

To the more common toys you can find at any store for a few bucks.  And that's the beauty of this plan, should you need to quickly convert your dollars into bitcoins there are now locations all over the world where you can do it quickly and easily with no hassle. There is no danger of the supply of ponies running out of control because each generation of ponies is always released by Hasboro on a careful, gradual schedule and only made for a limited time. This is just a general outline of my plan, but every revolution has to start somewhere.

If you would like to donate bitcoins or ponies to help me get started, feel free to send a message!

Your idea is indeed intriguing... not!
Obviously you are Being facetious, but
Still, the basic Idea has merit:
Physical Tokens of bitcoin ould be useful for
Offline transactions... there was some Chat before of using
Silver or gold as 'backing' for bitcoin, i don't know what Happened with that.

These are all some of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard. Wisdom of the crowds only works when people actually have an idea what they're talking about. It takes years of training
to become a competent doctor and suggesting that by asking 200 people how to cure a rare and relatively unknown disease the correct treatment plan will emerge is just plain lunacy.
The psuedo internet thing is dumb as fucking hell as well because it encourages website owners to make their websites as big and ineffecient as they possibly can so that more packets get sent. You can't compete against it because lawsuits against people who infringe on their IP makes them the sole provider for whatever it is they're doing. It's the stupidest fucking idea because it'd directly go against every single fucking thing the internet is designed upon.
Firstly, I'd appreciate if you could be civil. There is NO
need to be rude. These are just some BASIC sketches of ideas I have had, I don't see you contributing any ideas?
 Secondly, it is documented fact that the market outperforms so-called
'experts' every single day. Bitcoin itself values the judgements of 200 'people'
over one 'expert', and that seems to be working fine enough? It's true in other fields too -
see the study where user-edited Wikipedia OUTPERFORMS an enclyclopedia written by a clique of experts.
Thirdly, doctors make mistakes all the time. The problem is that there is no accountability. If an incorrect
diagnosis is offered in my system, it will be swiftly corrected by the market.

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September 04, 2011, 01:40:43 AM
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I don't think you understand how medicine works. Doctors have to train hard to diagnose correctly and provide a solution to the diagnosis (You say misdiagnosis happens all the time but this is a fallacy. For every case of misdiagnosis that has a bad outcome such as death there are hundreds, if not not thousands, of correct diagnoses, the difference being that the incorrect diagnoses are the only ones you hear about). Your opinion that doctors have no accountability is also a complete load of bollocks. If people die, the health body will want to know why, assuming you're living in a country with even an ounce of regulation. Fuck, even if it doesn't have a regulatory body because you're living somewhere like somalia, the family of the deceased are gonna be pretty fucking pissed too.

You also don't seem to understand how the free market works. The market only works because experts in their field have the knowledge and foresight to put shit into practice and do it correctly, as well as at an effective cost or rate of return. Getting together a bunch of idiots with no information about how to do anything and then suggesting that they could somehow do the same thing is a load of bunk. It's like suggesting that you could replace one expert in rocket science with 200 farmers and expect them to be able to solve equations about throat diameter and stagnation points on rocket engines from first principles.

Your "fact" about Wikipedia is also pretty much a lie. Wikipedia at this point is considered terrible by most educational institutions, and infact several of my friends at universities have reported that even citing wikipedia as a reliable source of information is likely to get that paper failed (at my universitiy it doesn't count as a fail but they do discard the information you obtained from it). I mean fuck, this can be demonstrated quite neatly by the fact that discussion pages about anime and the colour of ball hair are more popular and longer than articles on serious subjects such as Lift, Drag and Gravity or Medical conditions (which I note, have only been discovered, named, diagnosed and figured out by experts in medicine. I mean fuck, the article on "human assholes" actually had one of the longest discussions of all times because so many people deemed it important to argue about which picture of a human butt should be used on the article.
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September 04, 2011, 02:48:28 AM
 #15

the biggest issue with decentralized internet, is addressing, how do you stop people from abusing that, you have to have an address.

also, mesh networking would only be good for slow web browsing at best with current wireless technology, because each hope will add at least 20ms to your ping. so unless you have some super transmitters, good luck getting any decent pings.

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September 04, 2011, 03:01:32 AM
 #16

Ultimately, the goal should be removing the arbitrary burdens and restrictions that currency, government and other traditional institutions place on humanity. Check out www.zeitgeistmovie.com and www.thevenusproject.com

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
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September 04, 2011, 03:03:40 AM
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i just though of something

the reason we have centralization is because people are unable to think for themselves, so they turn to government and religion to tell them what to do.

from the movie collapse, he said we will need a revolution, not of violence, but revolution of the mind.

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September 04, 2011, 03:12:08 AM
 #18

Miners are typically gonna have sizable drives because your average PCIe-x16 system has SATA ports. A distributed encrypted backup/storage system is probably not a bad thing to consider, at least from a technical standpoint. There's already stuff like this out there, mind you, but it tends to require most people contribute space to get some.

But, hey, DriveCoin might be a more interesting "currency with automatic tack on application" than NameCoin is.

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September 04, 2011, 05:29:42 AM
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I thought of this too, but in reality it always ends in clusterfuck.

The only true democracy would be all people voting on every single issue ever, always. And it would be entirely possible too if you could see public verifiable votes on everything, and whatever you vote with (phone app, computer) can also recount and confirm your vote later on. 

BUT then you start to realize... the majority of people are fucking idiots. And the system would devolve into everyone voting however lady gaga does... and then we are all wearing government mandated meat suits by friday.

Sooo really, the true answer to politics would be actual engineers and professors voting on things, but thats never going to happen.



Bitcoins as well has "ended in clusterfuck" in my eyes. Its a hackers wet dream, and the theft and hacking will only get worse and worse until bitcoins are worthless and they stop trying.



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September 04, 2011, 05:49:10 AM
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I thought of this too, but in reality it always ends in clusterfuck.

The only true democracy would be all people voting on every single issue ever, always. And it would be entirely possible too if you could see public verifiable votes on everything, and whatever you vote with (phone app, computer) can also recount and confirm your vote later on. 

BUT then you start to realize... the majority of people are fucking idiots. And the system would devolve into everyone voting however lady gaga does... and then we are all wearing government mandated meat suits by friday.

Sooo really, the true answer to politics would be actual engineers and professors voting on things, but thats never going to happen.



Bitcoins as well has "ended in clusterfuck" in my eyes. Its a hackers wet dream, and the theft and hacking will only get worse and worse until bitcoins are worthless and they stop trying.





i have pondered doing just that.

its kind of simple really. all you do is have a neighborhood issue themselves private keys, one per person that is eligible to vote. each neighborhood would have voting inspectors. then in each state, all the neighborhood voting inspectors report to the state voting office. then each state reports to the national voting office. to vote for something, all you do is sign a document that states your wishes or something.

to ensure there is only 1 vote per person, you test their dna, you do not keep any information other than the dna, no names or pictures or anything, because you don't need it. all you do is show up at the neighborhood voting office, they take your dna, and you give them your public key. they would not accept dna that they did not witness firsthand.

so heres the proces,
show up at the local voting office
give them your dna and a public key

in the case of twins, both must show up at the same time, they will have separate keys, but they will be able to have 2 keys per 1 dna.

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