Bitcoin Forum
December 05, 2016, 10:39:15 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 [6]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: comrades, is bitcoin a great leap forward for international socialism?  (Read 6765 times)
Hawker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700



View Profile
September 06, 2011, 05:01:11 PM
 #101



And no political change really affects that underlying fact.  Socialism can't make up for the fact that we have huge amounts of surplus labour.

the disparity in earnings is the cause of surplus labour.

Yes - an English worker earns more than a Chinese worker so if its the same product and carriage costs are 1%, the English worker will be unemployed.  Make that apply across 5% of the labor force and you have a recipe for labour being squeezed and capital making better returns.

Then why does Germany exists? And why does the industry does not go to Africa where the price of labour is way cheaper than anywhere else?

It seems to me your theory is too simplistic.

I agree its simplistic.  And you make a good point about Germany. 

German unemployment is always about 8% and that doesn't include the people who are kept on the payrolls by a taxpayer subsidy.  My understanding is that the "natural" rate of unemployment is 2 or 3%.  So you have that 5% of people sloshing about the German labour markets as well.  And Germany is becoming more inequitable as a result.  Google "german inequality" and you'll see what I mean.

Even though what I say is simplistic, it seems to me that having a large group of people whose labour is surplus to requirement will affect inequality.  Of course there are other factors.  But adopting a socialist agenda while that lack of competitiveness is still there will achieve nothing.  For the same reason, I think a US budget stimulus will generate jobs in China more than in the US and worsen the trade deficit.  Increased demand without increased manufacturing competitiveness won't do much for US jobs.  But that's off topic to stevendobbs thread so lets not go there Smiley

1480934355
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480934355

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480934355
Reply with quote  #2

1480934355
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480934355
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480934355

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480934355
Reply with quote  #2

1480934355
Report to moderator
stevendobbs
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile WWW
September 06, 2011, 05:11:54 PM
 #102


Even though what I say is simplistic, it seems to me that having a large group of people whose labour is surplus to requirement will affect inequality.  Of course there are other factors.  But adopting a socialist agenda while that lack of competitiveness is still there will achieve nothing.  For the same reason, I think a US budget stimulus will generate jobs in China more than in the US and worsen the trade deficit.  Increased demand without increased manufacturing competitiveness won't do much for US jobs.  But that's off topic to stevendobbs thread so lets not go there Smiley

Another option: Rather than compete, don't. Alls we really require is a supply of energy

Steven Dobbs, co founder of thunderworks ltd
Hawker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700



View Profile
September 06, 2011, 05:22:28 PM
 #103


Even though what I say is simplistic, it seems to me that having a large group of people whose labour is surplus to requirement will affect inequality.  Of course there are other factors.  But adopting a socialist agenda while that lack of competitiveness is still there will achieve nothing.  For the same reason, I think a US budget stimulus will generate jobs in China more than in the US and worsen the trade deficit.  Increased demand without increased manufacturing competitiveness won't do much for US jobs.  But that's off topic to stevendobbs thread so lets not go there Smiley

Another option: Rather than compete, don't. Alls we really require is a supply of energy

No iPhones.

You may think its shallow but if you try to get a no free trade policy adopted, that's what your opponent will say and you will not get it passed.

JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
September 06, 2011, 07:11:51 PM
 #104



And no political change really affects that underlying fact.  Socialism can't make up for the fact that we have huge amounts of surplus labour.

the disparity in earnings is the cause of surplus labour.

Yes - an English worker earns more than a Chinese worker so if its the same product and carriage costs are 1%, the English worker will be unemployed.  Make that apply across 5% of the labor force and you have a recipe for labour being squeezed and capital making better returns.

Then why does Germany exists? And why does the industry does not go to Africa where the price of labour is way cheaper than anywhere else?

It seems to me your theory is too simplistic.

Africa is where China gets their exploitable labor/resources (mostly resources though)
FinShaggy
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


Google/YouTube


View Profile WWW
May 25, 2013, 08:38:46 PM
 #105

Working on Starting a Bitcoin town here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=216139.0

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
Rez
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 132



View Profile WWW
August 29, 2013, 11:56:04 AM
 #106

Socialism is used to describe a broad range of ideas. I regard those that wish for redistribution of wealth to be socialists for examples, others would not.

Quote
a 1000 years of socialism

Was the Nazi reference on purpose?

Nazis were socialists after all, so....

Nazis were socialists like the Tea Party are lobbyists for the chai trade. Smiley

BITCOIN.SL Domain for Sale - ฿5.00 - Bitcoin Only - Escrow OK
xxjs
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280


View Profile
September 01, 2013, 08:32:47 PM
 #107

is bitcoin a great leap forward for international socialism?

Socialism is taking from some and give to some by force. Socialism is about herding the subjects to start quarreling about which group is injustly receiving and which is unjustly taken away from. Socialism is sacrificing yourself and others to the collective. Socialims is being part of society when you are supposed to pay, and outside when you expect to receive. Socialism is about using all powers to feed the society beast, including debasing money.

Obviously, sound money like bitcoin doesn't support that. Rather, sound money like bitcoin support laws between men and women that are based on nature, individual rights and voluntary action, resulting in prosperity and life.
ronimacarroni
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126



View Profile
September 01, 2013, 09:56:28 PM
 #108

no, bitcoins doesn't aim at making everyone equal.
But it will make everyone richer.
I think, maybe...
MonkeyBear68
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154



View Profile
September 05, 2013, 01:49:22 AM
 #109

Concentration of wealth, when it occurs to extremes, is merely wasted. Unfortunately for humans the trickle-down effect does not work. The 1% in America have 32 Trillion sitting in offshore accounts. The US deficit is only around 16 Trillion. If the 1% had been taxed properly to pay for their wars that mostly benefitted them, then the US would not have a deficit. Furthermore most of the 1% are psychotic in their level of indifference to the plight facing the lower class in society.

In order to provide for the needs of an increasingly larger world population a global collectivist society is the only one that will succeed. Humans by their very nature have leaders and followers, this has been the case through all history. Mathematics prove we cannot all be rich; someone needs to buy the products produced. Time and time again governments are called upon to bailout businesses that are too big to fail.

Global collectivism provides for leadership (elites) and re-distribution of the remaining wealth in a fair manner. The internet has brought about Digital Collectivism which is becoming more and more prominent every year. In 100 years we will all be cybernetic machinations of such. Resistance is Futile.
nrd525
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1183


View Profile
September 05, 2013, 02:22:57 AM
 #110

Bitcoin doesn't do much for socialism as it does little to promote equality and democracy.  It is more likely that Bitcoin, like many new forms of business, will create a small rich elite.

Bitcoin does challenge the power of the state, but whether this attack is a strong one remains to be seen. It is equally possible that the state will be able to regulate Bitcoin (by regulating the conversion of fiat into Bitcoin) and use the blockchain to track transactions - effectively making anonymity very difficult.

The bitcoin forum does encourage socialism by exposing some of the flaws of capitalism, unregulated markets, and excessive speculation.  The securities and lending sections of this board show what happens when capitalism goes to its logical (and libertarian) conclusion. You get scams and securities that are jokes.


Don't day trade.
ronimacarroni
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126



View Profile
September 05, 2013, 03:00:44 AM
 #111

Bitcoin doesn't do much for socialism as it does little to promote equality and democracy.  It is more likely that Bitcoin, like many new forms of business, will create a small rich elite.

Bitcoin does challenge the power of the state, but whether this attack is a strong one remains to be seen. It is equally possible that the state will be able to regulate Bitcoin (by regulating the conversion of fiat into Bitcoin) and use the blockchain to track transactions - effectively making anonymity very difficult.

The bitcoin forum does encourage socialism by exposing some of the flaws of capitalism, unregulated markets, and excessive speculation.  The securities and lending sections of this board show what happens when capitalism goes to its logical (and libertarian) conclusion. You get scams and securities that are jokes.


Wait what?
That's not what I got out it.
Look at mtgox, it used to be number 1 and no people are getting fed up with it because its witholding funds, so they're taking their business elsewhere.
Same with butterfly labs.
Also nobody is owed a garauntee on the money they lend/borrow. You do the background check.
Besides that its cool that bitcoins doesn't lose value.Well in the long run, maybe
Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050



View Profile
September 05, 2013, 03:19:25 AM
 #112

The bitcoin forum does encourage socialism by exposing some of the flaws of capitalism, unregulated markets, and excessive speculation.  The securities and lending sections of this board show what happens when capitalism goes to its logical (and libertarian) conclusion. You get scams and securities that are jokes.



And in return, the people who were made stupid by regulation and security are forced to take responsibility for their own actions, leading to a wiser, more alert, and hardened people, capable of self-reliance without the crutch that is Momma Government.

When you, nrd525, spot a scam, do you:

A. Realize what you're looking at is a scam, thanks to having seen or been scammed before, and thus avoid being scammed

or

B. Ignore it and recklessly do as you please, and if anything goes wrong, bitch and moan about how Bitcoin has failed and capitalism can never work, and beg that some central entity be capable of issuing Bitcoin refunds so the next time someone recklessly does as they please, their sheepishness, which caused their turmoil to start, will overcome any sensibility they could've attained by taking the moment to analyze their situation and resort to the obvious option, A, but instead relied on Momma Government to magically fix their problems when they either couldn't or simply refused to take ownership over their own actions

Of course you would go for option A, but what about all the stupid people, incapable of thought and unable to handle any freedom whatsoever?  Obviously they need hand-holding.  Since, you know, they might otherwise have to do the horrible act of figuring things out on their own, and we can't have people thinking for themselves--just think of the anarchy that would ensue!

MonkeyBear68
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154



View Profile
September 05, 2013, 04:55:25 AM
 #113


And in return, the people who were made stupid by regulation and security are forced to take responsibility for their own actions, leading to a wiser, more alert, and hardened people, capable of self-reliance without the crutch that is Momma Government.

When you, nrd525, spot a scam, do you:

A. Realize what you're looking at is a scam, thanks to having seen or been scammed before, and thus avoid being scammed

or

B. Ignore it and recklessly do as you please, and if anything goes wrong, bitch and moan about how Bitcoin has failed and capitalism can never work, and beg that some central entity be capable of issuing Bitcoin refunds so the next time someone recklessly does as they please, their sheepishness, which caused their turmoil to start, will overcome any sensibility they could've attained by taking the moment to analyze their situation and resort to the obvious option, A, but instead relied on Momma Government to magically fix their problems when they either couldn't or simply refused to take ownership over their own actions

Of course you would go for option A, but what about all the stupid people, incapable of thought and unable to handle any freedom whatsoever?  Obviously they need hand-holding.  Since, you know, they might otherwise have to do the horrible act of figuring things out on their own, and we can't have people thinking for themselves--just think of the anarchy that would ensue!

And if the person promoting the scam is lying about it, then it might be hard to identify it as a scam. Regulations and laws are meant to protect against such scenarios as well. The smartest person in the world can still be lied to.
nrd525
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1183


View Profile
September 05, 2013, 05:12:51 AM
 #114

Check my posts -successfully identifying scams since Pirateat40 (before Micon).  Fortunately, I think I've only been scammed for a total of $40 in my entire life and that had no impact (as it wasn't security related) on my ability to question Pirate's operation, Patrick Harnett, or the more recent CasinoBet one.  It's my background in economics (and minimal investment experience) which is more useful.

Even if someone isn't planning on running a scam, with no effective enforcement mechanism - it makes sense for a lot of companies to run away with the money. Especially any company that has a lot of investor money (ex. Just Dice) in it or a product which is highly profitable (like an ASIC).  Now the fact that many of these people don't run away with the money is due to a combination of not wanting to take risks and thinking they'll make more money in the longterm from maintaining a successful business.

Note I'm not a huge fan of regulation. I'd prefer to use transparency and democracy.




Don't day trade.
hlynur
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770



View Profile
September 05, 2013, 08:21:12 AM
 #115

imo bitcoin itself is like a toy that humanity has to figure out how it fits in our ecosystem.

right now it's docking in markets where its advantages (anonymous, nearly no regulation, to a a point taxfree) are needed most.
Drugmarket, Gambling, Illegal services & Moneylaundering. last one will boom in the coming years of chaos with regulative approaches until most of the gaps are closed.

The web as a global network with it's own world is in need of a tool for fast transactions of value and payment for virtual services (social networks, website hosting etc) and goods (first all kinds of digital media, then niche products etc), so that will be the next market to dock. (we're scratching heavily there already)
Hopefully this huge buying power triggers btc to spread back into everyday use of the real world economy accompanied by a political movement speaking out for more transparency like public taxwallets of governments and other stuff.

I see a lot of potential for regional cryptocurrencies in local communities interchangeable with each other and backed up by btc (there are already some succesful analog predecessors that helped communities stumble through the crisis with little to no harm because they had a nearly closed circle of value exchange).
I'm no expert on this subject but that approach fascinates me since some years, this decentralisation seems like a good way of handling some of the problems. (not sure if it could work on a larger scale in big cities with a lot of import of global resources though)

yea well...bitcoin utopia  Tongue


on the other side....when i see how snowden affair leads to ridiculously few outcrys in public and demonstrations in the western world... (everybody's just trying to deal with it and go on as if nothing has happened, war in syria is already replacing public attention from this subject in the media)
then I'm sure we have to go through the Middle Ages of the Digital Era first until there's hope for any of these ideas.
And that would in fact mean btc becomes more like another new cashcow market in the hands of the above mentioned rich elite able to control spread of wealth even more than today.

there are always two sides of a coin. (internet went the same way -  humanity benefit a lot but at the same time we see more centralised control than ever before in its history)



interesting world we live in  Smiley






Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 [6]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!