Beijing Ant & Rat Tribes...

[Wilikon]

The astronomical costs and development in urban Beijing before and during the 2008 Summer Olympics made property values skyrocket so quickly that an estimated "hundreds of thousands" of Chinese live in bomb shelters, abandoned parking lots, and other underground areas of the city.

Vice magazine visited the groups in Beijing, often called "ant" or "rat" tribes because of the hours of labor they work and their lives underground. They found a ravaging and severely unhealthy economic situation below the already dismal lifestyles that the communist country's economy has yielded millions. The "ant" tribe tends to be composed of young professionals who are forced to take unskilled labor jobs because of the closing job market. They can only afford to live in these tight spaces. The "rat" tribe is far less wealthy and typically composed of migrant unskilled workers. They occupy former bomb shelters and other underground lairs in a much less orderly way as they toil dawn-to-dusk trying to make ends meet.
The "ants," who are described in the report as "highly-educated working poor," pay rent to the owners of these underground areas, owners who have established a system of living spaces where up to six people could be paying rent to live in the same room. The rooms are makeshift creations in places like parking lots that were never meant for permanent dwelling, particularly of so many people at once.

The rent for living in a small room in one of these colonies is inexpensive enough for a young professional working in private industry to afford, as the largest salaries in China are reserved for high-ranking members of the government or employees working for the government. While they are above ground, though impoverished, they are sometimes in suburban areas further away from work or school. Private industry pays 70% less than government work but constitutes a great number of the white collar jobs in urban areas. This is especially important in a smog-filled city where young workers find themselves with no health care aid and are forced to take unskilled or low-skill jobs after receiving liberal arts or professional degrees. "Even minor symptoms will cost you a lot of money," says one of the dwellers in Vice's documentary, noting that he does not see the possibility of ever saving money to move out of the space he currently rents, especially if he gets even mildly sick.
Those living in air-raid shelters face a host of different problems even more dangerous than those who find spaces slightly higher underground. These shelters were never meant for dwelling, so they lack a number of amenities, including fire escape paths, kitchens, and bathrooms. They cook by lighting a fire on the floor and make amends to fix other living situations, but with no windows or means of ventilation, most create dangerous fire hazards and pollute the already smoggy Beijing air.
Many of these migrant workers came to China during the building boom of 2008. Since the nation needed to build a host of sports amenities and dwellings for athletes and tourists, workers were needed, and the new buildings and creation of an entirely new social sphere in areas where sports facilities were built made the prices of real estate skyrocket. Those who live underground often live stories below giant, brand-new skyscrapers. The Olympics helped exacerbate and emphasize the already-existing wealth inequality in China.

Below is Vice's video report on the harrowing state of semi-legal dilapidated settlements in and outside of Beijing (The report is in Japanese, but English closed captioning is available.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JszlZCdQsuo

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/01/13/Thousands-Of-Chinese-Live-In-Underground-Dwellings-Squalor-After-Beijing-Olympics

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[cheeseburger123]

Have u noticed the crowed people in Beijing Subway? Did u know about PM2.5 during this winter in Beijing? The property price in Beijing is much higher than NY and London....

[nasamanBoy]

 I don't think Chinese government is trying to hide this, it's a problem everyone who live in Beijing knew about. Of course it's not something you would like to show off to the world, just like american won't show off their poor city neighborhoods....

[Wilikon]

I don't think Chinese government is trying to hide this, it's a problem everyone who live in Beijing knew about. Of course it's not something you would like to show off to the world, just like american won't show off their poor city neighborhoods....

So who decided to call them Ant and Rat tribes?

[stompix]

Oh , how I love when the truth behind the paper dragon comes out. =)))
But there will still be lots of idiots claiming that China is far better than.. whatever. They are idiots.

[jinjuro]

The rich get's richer to poor gets poorer. China is a corrupt country controlled by a few families.

[Wilikon]

Oh , how I love when the truth behind the paper dragon comes out. =)))
But there will still be lots of idiots claiming that China is far better than.. whatever. They are idiots.

At least in the "evil capitalist countries" you get some kind of process before TPTB kick you out of your property or land:

Beijing to evict 1.5 million for Olympics

(Reuters) - Some 1.5 million residents of Beijing will be displaced by the time it hosts the 2008 Olympics, many of them evicted against their will, a rights group said on Tuesday, prompting a sharp denial by China.

The Geneva-based Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions (COHRE) said residents were often forced from their homes with little notice and little compensation, as the government embarks on a massive city redevelopment to accommodate the Games.

"In Beijing, and in China more generally, the process of demolition and eviction is characterized by arbitrariness and lack of due process," the group said in a report.

After demolition, inhabitants were often "forced to relocate far from their communities and workplaces, with inadequate transportation networks adding significantly to their cost of living," the group said.

Beijing's Olympic organizing committee and China's Foreign Ministry said the report was groundless and the figures vastly inflated, with only 6,037 people displaced since 2002 for the construction of Olympic stadiums.

"During the process, the citizens have had their compensation property settled. No single person was forced to move out of Beijing," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu told a regular news conference.

Across China, battles between residents and property developers have become commonplace as breakneck development swallows up swathes of rural land and as cities raze sections to make way for skyscrapers and shopping malls.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/06/05/us-olympics-beijing-housing-idUSPEK12263220070605

[CIYAM]

So OP - you live in Beijing then (I did for 7 years)?

Of course there are homeless there but actually you see just as many in many western cities (such as Melbourne, Australia where I originate from).

BTW - the subway stations are closed and locked at nights so there is no-one "living" inside them (you do see some homeless people sleeping in "pedestrian subway crossings" though).

Also - right next to where I used to live (around Dongzhimen subway) there is a community whose buildings are supposed to have been demolished (the "chai" symbol is painted all over it) - but there are at least 30-50 tenants that simply "refuse to leave" (and this is not unique to that location - you see the same all over Beijing).

Nothing has "happened" to them - they have been living there for at least the last 4 years (that I observed directly) and am pretty sure they were living there under the same situation for at least a few years before as the landlord I rented from told me so (and would not be surprised if I see them still there in another few years).

[Wilikon]

So OP - you live in Beijing then (I did for 7 years)?

Of course there are homeless there but actually you see just as many in many western cities (such as Melbourne, Australia where I originate from).

BTW - the subway stations are closed and locked at nights so there is no-one "living" inside them (you do see some homeless people sleeping in "pedestrian subway crossings" though).

Also - right next to where I used to live (around Dongzhimen subway) there is a community whose buildings are supposed to have been demolished (the "chai" symbol is painted all over it) - but there are at least 30-50 tenants that simply "refuse to leave" (and this is not unique to that location - you see the same all over Beijing).

Nothing has "happened" to them - they have been living there for at least the last 4 years (that I observed directly) and am pretty sure they were living there under the same situation for at least a few years before as the landlord I rented from told me so (and would not be surprised if I see them still there in another few years).

I never lived in Beijing. No. I am sure you'll bring a rich amount of personal experiences to this thread if you so desire regarding Vice's video regarding Beijing's Ant and Rat Tribes.

[CIYAM]

I never lived in Beijing. No. I am sure you'll bring a rich amount of personal experiences to this thread if you so desire regarding Vice's video regarding Beijing's Ant and Rat Tribes.

Personally I think that such stories are basically "western propaganda" - and for many westerners this is hard to swallow but please just try to think about the following question:

Is China Communist?

From my experience most "westerners" will immediately answer *yes* to this question but interestingly enough very few Chinese would say the same.

The reality is that "communism" (in accordance with the ideas of Karl Marx) finished after Deng Xiao Ping took over from Mao (i.e. back in the 1970's) but still westerners "believe" that China is "communist" without seemingly even knowing what that means (apart from "it must be bad").

If that isn't being "brainwashed" then what is?

BTW - the situation that I *have* observed is that sometimes they cram a bunch of people into an apartment using bunk beds and every space available (apparently in the building I was living several apartments on the "top floor" were like this - each person only paying 500 RMB per month to live in an apartment that would be 5000 RMB per month for a single occupant) *but* this isn't *forced* - it is the tenants "free will" to live this way (something that I think you probably "couldn't do" in say Melbourne, Australia which is why you'd actually end up with more homeless people there as the laws would prevent such high density apartment usage).

[Wilikon]

I never lived in Beijing. No. I am sure you'll bring a rich amount of personal experiences to this thread if you so desire regarding Vice's video regarding Beijing's Ant and Rat Tribes.

Personally I think that such stories are basically "western propaganda" - and for many westerners this is hard to swallow but please just try to think about the following question:

Is China Communist?

From my experience most "westerners" will immediately answer *yes* to this question but interestingly enough very few Chinese would say the same.

The reality is that "communism" (in accordance with the ideas of Karl Marx) finished after Deng Xiao Ping took over from Mao (i.e. back in the 1970's) but still westerners "believe" that China is "communist" without seemingly then even knowing what that means.

If that isn't being "brainwashed" then what is?

Well... As a brainwashed westerner I could also believe someone who spent 7 years in China could be influenced to a counter pushed propaganda? It is nothing personal, it is just your use of the word "westerners" made me think you don't consider yourself as one anymore (unless you are not and in this case never mind)

[CIYAM]

Well... As a brainwashed westerner I could also believe someone who spent 7 years in China could be influenced to a counter pushed propaganda? It is nothing personal, it is just your use of the word "westerners" made me think you don't consider yourself as one anymore (unless you are not and in this case never mind)

I never said that "you" personally were "brainwashed" so I don't see the reason to get "defensive" and then start silly arguments with me about that (especially as to whether or not "I am still a westerner" - this isn't the school yard and we aren't picking teams).

I am not an apologist for the Chinese government - they have plenty of faults - I just ask you to use the same amount of "sense" that you would in analyzing any Chinese report about the US (am assuming you would dismiss any such reports as "propaganda").

[Wilikon]

"Free will" for them to be packed like rats and ants... Hmmm...

[CIYAM]

"Free will" for them to be packed like rats and ants... Hmmm...

Hmm... so that's your argument now is it?

Guess you aren't actually interested in listening to anything are you?

[Wilikon]

Well... As a brainwashed westerner I could also believe someone who spent 7 years in China could be influenced to a counter pushed propaganda? It is nothing personal, it is just your use of the word "westerners" made me think you don't consider yourself as one anymore (unless you are not and in this case never mind)

I never said that "you" personally were "brainwashed" so I don't see the reason to get "defensive" and then start silly arguments with me about that (especially as to whether or not "I am still a westerner" - this isn't the school yard and we aren't picking teams).

I am not an apologist for the Chinese government - they have plenty of faults - I just ask you to use the same amount of "sense" that you would in analyzing any Chinese report about the US (am assuming you would dismiss any such reports as "propaganda").

Exactly. That was my point. It is propaganda from the westerners and propaganda from China. I did no have the chance of being over there. You did. So I should believe you that the link I posted was pure propaganda as the situation in China is no more worse than the favelas in Brazil... Ok.

[CIYAM]

Exactly. That was my point. It is propaganda from the westerners and propaganda from China. I did no have the chance of being over there. You did. So I should believe you that the link I posted was pure propaganda as the situation in China is no more worse than the favelas in Brazil... Ok.

Indeed - I think the situation in the favelas in Brazil may well be much worse from what I've seen - *but* - I don't know anything more than what I've seen on TV about that situation so I might be completely wrong about that.

We all have "media sunglasses" when it comes to viewing each other (which are not even necessarily "government approved sunglasses" as the media in the west in particular is far more run by private companies).

The only way to "really understand" people and their situations is to "live with them" IMO (although I would not recommend going to countries that might be dangerous to even visit).

By the way - if you want to come over to China for a visit then let me know (I think it is safe enough here for that).

[Wilikon]

"Free will" for them to be packed like rats and ants... Hmmm...

Hmm... so that's your argument now is it?

Guess you aren't actually interested in listening to anything are you?

I am. Always ready to learn from the other side of the Great Wall. You told me everything I posted thus far is propaganda and everything you tell us is not. You told me I should read the position of China regarding its views on westerners. I am looking forward to read them.

Take your time.

[CIYAM]

I am. Always ready to learn from the other side of the Great Wall. You told me everything I posted thus far is propaganda and everything you tell us is not. You told me I should read the position of China regarding its views on westerners. I am looking forward to read them.

Please don't try and twist it this way - I am not some "oracle of truth" and you are not some "oracle of lies".

My point is not really to "win an argument" about "who is right or wrong" but simply to ask you to "question information" (as I do myself - I hope you don't think that I believe *anything* much that is reported on CCTV which is the "portal" of propaganda in China).

[Wilikon]

Exactly. That was my point. It is propaganda from the westerners and propaganda from China. I did no have the chance of being over there. You did. So I should believe you that the link I posted was pure propaganda as the situation in China is no more worse than the favelas in Brazil... Ok.

Indeed - I think the situation in the favelas in Brazil may well be much worse from what I've seen - *but* - I don't know anything more than what I've seen on TV about that situation so I might be completely wrong about that.

We all have "media sunglasses" when it comes to viewing each other (which are not even necessarily "government approved sunglasses" as the media in the west in particular is far more run by private companies).

The only way to "really understand" people and their situations is to "live with them" IMO (although I would not recommend going to countries that might be dangerous to even visit).

By the way - if you want to come over to China for a visit then let me know (I think it is safe enough here for that).

Haha! Thank you! My sister went to China a couple of times. Had a great time. Brought me a USB stick as a souvenir. Never plugged it!!!!!!

[Wilikon]

I am. Always ready to learn from the other side of the Great Wall. You told me everything I posted thus far is propaganda and everything you tell us is not. You told me I should read the position of China regarding its views on westerners. I am looking forward to read them.

Please don't try and twist it this way - I am not some "oracle of truth" and you are not some "oracle of lies".

My point is not really to "win an argument" about "who is right or wrong" but simply to ask you to "question information" (as I do myself - I hope you don't think that I believe *anything* much that is reported on CCTV which is the "portal" of propaganda in China).

On that point we are both on the same frequency. Me on my NSA's approved US ISP and you on your favorite VPN behind the Wall... 

[CIYAM]

On that point we are both on the same frequency. Me on my NSA's approved US ISP and you on your favorite VPN behind the Wall... 

Interestingly enough they don't actually block bitcointalk.org here (although sometimes btcchina.com is blocked).

[Wilikon]

On that point we are both on the same frequency. Me on my NSA's approved US ISP and you on your favorite VPN behind the Wall... 

Interestingly enough they don't actually block bitcointalk.org here (although sometimes btcchina.com is blocked).

Well I am glad you can surf the net without the need of a VPN for bitcointalk.org.
Funny thing:  I never keep a list of blocked websites from where I am. No need. Not saying it won't happen in the future though of course.

[CIYAM]

Funny thing:  I never keep a list of blocked websites from where I am. No need. Not saying it won't happen in the future though of course.

For sure it isn't nice to not be able to find websites - but would be pretty sure that some of the websites that I can access here without a VPN you could *not* access due to them having "pirate video content" (something the Chinese authorities don't care much about).

[Wilikon]

Funny thing:  I never keep a list of blocked websites from where I am. No need. Not saying it won't happen in the future though of course.

For sure it isn't nice to not be able to find websites - but would be pretty sure that some of the websites that I can access here without a VPN you could *not* access due to them having "pirate video content" (something the Chinese authorities don't care much about).

So this can go on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCKtdbSCadA

But not "pirate video" links. Hmm.

[CIYAM]

But not "pirate video" links. Hmm.

Aha - so your "internet freedom" has some restrictions then?

You should be able to find basically every big movie from 2013 and also every major TV series episode as well (in English with Chinese subtitles).

[Wilikon]

But not "pirate video" links. Hmm.

Aha - so your "internet freedom" has some restrictions then?

You should be able to find basically every big movie from 2013 and also every major TV series episode as well (in English with Chinese subtitles).

I. Know.

[CIYAM]

I. Know.

So - does it make much difference that I can't see some political video without using a VPN when you can't watch some movie without the same?

To me it's the same thing - "censorship" exists in both cases - it is just focused on different things ("copyright" rather than "political ideology" and btw - I could watch a western movie here that is actually quite "political" also - so it isn't as simple as you might think).

[Wilikon]

I. Know.

So - does it make much difference that I can't see some political video without using a VPN when you can't watch some movie without the same?

To me it's the same thing - "censorship" exists in both cases - it is just focused on different things ("copyright" rather than "political ideology" and btw - I could watch a western movie here that is actually quite "political" also - so it isn't as simple as you might think).

First of all not using a VPN saves me $10/month, or way less if you use one of the main sponsor of this website. Not using a VPN lets me say stupid things on anyone and anything online without much consequences for my family or myself, not just "some political movies"**. Mind you I am not a big troll and I always try to have a mindset of leaving stuff on the net I wrote I would not be ashamed of. The tools and services I use let me get anything anywhere I want. I have lighter shoulders knowing 2 million civil servants are not payed to monitor everything written on the net (The US use google's robots for that for sure). If I find a flash drive in the street I would not be worry too much about any backdoor key logger waiting to spring into action as soon as I plug my free little drive.

Sure no political system is perfect. Far from it. I am glad I can abuse my unlimited fast internet connection here in the US now until TPTB decide otherwise.


**
http://www.scmp.com/news/china-insider/article/1291311/despicable-me-2-banned-mainland

[CIYAM]

http://www.scmp.com/news/china-insider/article/1291311/despicable-me-2-banned-mainland

Am getting tired of this.

The film "Despicable Me 2" is *now showing* in Beijing and in most other cities in China - where do you get your (mis-)information from?

Perhaps you could find something more useful to do than just to try and spread FUD about what can and can't be done in China (and perhaps actually *talk to people who live here* rather than quote bullshit western articles)?

[Wilikon]

http://www.scmp.com/news/china-insider/article/1291311/despicable-me-2-banned-mainland

Am getting tired of this.

The film "Despicable Me 2" is *now showing* in Beijing and in most other cities in China - where do you get your (mis-)information from?

I am glad that's a fake news. Thank you! No country would be stupid enough to ban a cartoon.