Nextgen mining hardware?

[maxman190]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

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[DannyDisco]

There will always be next gen stuff. Just like gaming consoles, cell phones, computers, etc...

The question is what technology will be developed and when will it be released? Your guess is as good as anybodies. Who knows if Bitcoin will even be the crypto of choice when the next gen stuff hits the streets. All you can do is work with the information you have available for you. IMO... this is like asking if you should save for the PS5 or just buy the PS4. PS5 isn't even in the works yet...

now... is a ps4 worth buying now? That's a whole other question.

[maxman190]

There will always be next gen stuff. Just like gaming consoles, cell phones, computers, etc...

The question is what technology will be developed and when will it be released? Your guess is as good as anybodies. Who knows if Bitcoin will even be the crypto of choice when the next gen stuff hits the streets. All you can do is work with the information you have available for you. IMO... this is like asking if you should save for the PS5 or just buy the PS4. PS5 isn't even in the works yet...

now... is a ps4 worth buying now? That's a whole other question.

You just blew my freaking mind. I guess I'll just hold on to my money.... But, seriously I swear if BTC price goes like 2k next week and I didn't invest it right now, I'm going to be super pissed because I was going back and forth whether or not to buy BTC when it was at 100$ earlier on.

[empoweoqwj]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

[lithod02]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

hey now i just got my block erupter cube today some of us arent as btc rich as you

[empoweoqwj]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

hey now i just got my block erupter cube today some of us arent as btc rich as you

Just pointing out it might well not make back the ROI .... not point mining at a loss is there. But hopefully it will do well for you

[brontosaurus]

The big problem with SHA256 engines is their power dissipation. It's a consequence of the architecture that means that nearly all of the engine is active nearly all of the time, unlike an Intel i7 where it's really only the ALU that has a heavy load. Going from 28nm to 20nm saves about 40% of the relative power to do the same function, OR, with the same die size give you about 50% more hashes per second. There is no game changing technology on the horizon that will change this, ie one that would give you a 10x or even 5x improvement.

Also, 20nm is still effectively in development, so wafer and die yields may not be too good. But if you've got $20m+ of other people's paid up front money, I guess you can take the chance and do it as a vanity project, even though it's not necessary. 28nm is more mainstream, but even then it's not without it's problems, but the NRE is a lot less than 20nm. A well designed 28nm engine will easily beat an inefficient 20nm one, bear that in mind. 

[NecroBones]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

hey now i just got my block erupter cube today some of us arent as btc rich as you

The BE cubes are relatively cost-effective, if your goal is < $1000 on eBay. Compared to the BFLs, small USBs, etc, that are out there.

The pre-order gear that's slated for Q1/Q2 2014 from Black Arrow, Cointerra, and even the BFL Monarchs (among others) will be significantly more cost-effective. But they're not out yet, and who knows which ones will deliver on their promises the best.

Compare a BE Cube at 38 GH/s (overclocked) for, let's say $600 for the sake of argument, that's $15.79/GH.

Much of the unreleased hardware is promising cost rates under $4/GH. And they look even better when you also factor in the lower power consumption per GHash as well.

[empoweoqwj]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

hey now i just got my block erupter cube today some of us arent as btc rich as you

The BE cubes are relatively cost-effective, if your goal is < $1000 on eBay. Compared to the BFLs, small USBs, etc, that are out there.

The pre-order gear that's slated for Q1/Q2 2014 from Black Arrow, Cointerra, and even the BFL Monarchs (among others) will be significantly more cost-effective. But they're not out yet, and who knows which ones will deliver on their promises the best.

Compare a BE Cube at 38 GH/s (overclocked) for, let's say $600 for the sake of argument, that's $15.79/GH.

Much of the unreleased hardware is promising cost rates under $4/GH. And they look even better when you also factor in the lower power consumption per GHash as well.

New ASICMINER hardware (April): "Power consumption target estimation is <0.2W per G on low power mode and <0.2$ per G on wafer cost."

[maxman190]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

hey now i just got my block erupter cube today some of us arent as btc rich as you

The BE cubes are relatively cost-effective, if your goal is < $1000 on eBay. Compared to the BFLs, small USBs, etc, that are out there.

The pre-order gear that's slated for Q1/Q2 2014 from Black Arrow, Cointerra, and even the BFL Monarchs (among others) will be significantly more cost-effective. But they're not out yet, and who knows which ones will deliver on their promises the best.

Compare a BE Cube at 38 GH/s (overclocked) for, let's say $600 for the sake of argument, that's $15.79/GH.

Much of the unreleased hardware is promising cost rates under $4/GH. And they look even better when you also factor in the lower power consumption per GHash as well.

New ASICMINER hardware (April): "Power consumption target estimation is <0.2W per G on low power mode and <0.2$ per G on wafer cost."

But, by the time the hardware are actually delivered, the difficulty would be so high that GH cost would be lowered. It wouldn't make sense if the difficulty triples or quadruples in a few months and it would still be 15.79/GH. I still find it hard to believe that people are paying 35$-60$(Block erupters) for 1/3GH...

[empoweoqwj]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

hey now i just got my block erupter cube today some of us arent as btc rich as you

The BE cubes are relatively cost-effective, if your goal is < $1000 on eBay. Compared to the BFLs, small USBs, etc, that are out there.

The pre-order gear that's slated for Q1/Q2 2014 from Black Arrow, Cointerra, and even the BFL Monarchs (among others) will be significantly more cost-effective. But they're not out yet, and who knows which ones will deliver on their promises the best.

Compare a BE Cube at 38 GH/s (overclocked) for, let's say $600 for the sake of argument, that's $15.79/GH.

Much of the unreleased hardware is promising cost rates under $4/GH. And they look even better when you also factor in the lower power consumption per GHash as well.

New ASICMINER hardware (April): "Power consumption target estimation is <0.2W per G on low power mode and <0.2$ per G on wafer cost."

But, by the time the hardware are actually delivered, the difficulty would be so high that GH cost would be lowered. It wouldn't make sense if the difficulty triples or quadruples in a few months and it would still be 15.79/GH. I still find it hard to believe that people are paying 35$-60$(Block erupters) for 1/3GH...

I'm estimating the hardware will be delivered in April. Less than 0.2$ per GH is competitive in April is it not?

[brontosaurus]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

hey now i just got my block erupter cube today some of us arent as btc rich as you

The BE cubes are relatively cost-effective, if your goal is < $1000 on eBay. Compared to the BFLs, small USBs, etc, that are out there.

The pre-order gear that's slated for Q1/Q2 2014 from Black Arrow, Cointerra, and even the BFL Monarchs (among others) will be significantly more cost-effective. But they're not out yet, and who knows which ones will deliver on their promises the best.

Compare a BE Cube at 38 GH/s (overclocked) for, let's say $600 for the sake of argument, that's $15.79/GH.

Much of the unreleased hardware is promising cost rates under $4/GH. And they look even better when you also factor in the lower power consumption per GHash as well.

New ASICMINER hardware (April): "Power consumption target estimation is <0.2W per G on low power mode and <0.2$ per G on wafer cost."

But, by the time the hardware are actually delivered, the difficulty would be so high that GH cost would be lowered. It wouldn't make sense if the difficulty triples or quadruples in a few months and it would still be 15.79/GH. I still find it hard to believe that people are paying 35$-60$(Block erupters) for 1/3GH...

I'm estimating the hardware will be delivered in April. Less than 0.2$ per GH is competitive in April is it not?

Very competitive, but the chances of that happening are zero. It costs about $0.9/GH to actually build rigs, so if the difficulty keeps going up and bitcoin value stays the same there's a natural limit as to when it simply not worthwhile for a company to make and sell them - unless they're mining with them, of course, but then why would they want to subsidise their paying customers?

[empoweoqwj]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

hey now i just got my block erupter cube today some of us arent as btc rich as you

The BE cubes are relatively cost-effective, if your goal is < $1000 on eBay. Compared to the BFLs, small USBs, etc, that are out there.

The pre-order gear that's slated for Q1/Q2 2014 from Black Arrow, Cointerra, and even the BFL Monarchs (among others) will be significantly more cost-effective. But they're not out yet, and who knows which ones will deliver on their promises the best.

Compare a BE Cube at 38 GH/s (overclocked) for, let's say $600 for the sake of argument, that's $15.79/GH.

Much of the unreleased hardware is promising cost rates under $4/GH. And they look even better when you also factor in the lower power consumption per GHash as well.

New ASICMINER hardware (April): "Power consumption target estimation is <0.2W per G on low power mode and <0.2$ per G on wafer cost."

But, by the time the hardware are actually delivered, the difficulty would be so high that GH cost would be lowered. It wouldn't make sense if the difficulty triples or quadruples in a few months and it would still be 15.79/GH. I still find it hard to believe that people are paying 35$-60$(Block erupters) for 1/3GH...

I'm estimating the hardware will be delivered in April. Less than 0.2$ per GH is competitive in April is it not?

Very competitive, but the chances of that happening are zero. It costs about $0.9/GH to actually build rigs, so if the difficulty keeps going up and bitcoin value stays the same there's a natural limit as to when it simply not worthwhile for a company to make and sell them - unless they're mining with them, of course, but then why would they want to subsidise their paying customers?

ASICMINER mine themselves, and with some partners. They don't sell "retail". There is no fixed costs to "build rigs", it depends on many factors.

[brontosaurus]

Are there going to be like nextgen hardware that would be like 10x faster than the current mining hardware now or is this the best it's going to be? I can't decide whether to buy an ASIC block erupter cube or save for nextgen stuff if there is.

An ASIC block erupter cube is very old tech. I know its cheap but ... you get what you pay for.

But no point waiting for "something much faster", you'll wait forever because hardware will only get faster and faster.

Buy something now if you really want to mine.

hey now i just got my block erupter cube today some of us arent as btc rich as you

The BE cubes are relatively cost-effective, if your goal is < $1000 on eBay. Compared to the BFLs, small USBs, etc, that are out there.

The pre-order gear that's slated for Q1/Q2 2014 from Black Arrow, Cointerra, and even the BFL Monarchs (among others) will be significantly more cost-effective. But they're not out yet, and who knows which ones will deliver on their promises the best.

Compare a BE Cube at 38 GH/s (overclocked) for, let's say $600 for the sake of argument, that's $15.79/GH.

Much of the unreleased hardware is promising cost rates under $4/GH. And they look even better when you also factor in the lower power consumption per GHash as well.

New ASICMINER hardware (April): "Power consumption target estimation is <0.2W per G on low power mode and <0.2$ per G on wafer cost."

But, by the time the hardware are actually delivered, the difficulty would be so high that GH cost would be lowered. It wouldn't make sense if the difficulty triples or quadruples in a few months and it would still be 15.79/GH. I still find it hard to believe that people are paying 35$-60$(Block erupters) for 1/3GH...

I'm estimating the hardware will be delivered in April. Less than 0.2$ per GH is competitive in April is it not?

Very competitive, but the chances of that happening are zero. It costs about $0.9/GH to actually build rigs, so if the difficulty keeps going up and bitcoin value stays the same there's a natural limit as to when it simply not worthwhile for a company to make and sell them - unless they're mining with them, of course, but then why would they want to subsidise their paying customers?

ASICMINER mine themselves, and with some partners. They don't sell "retail". There is no fixed costs to "build rigs", it depends on many factors.

I beg to differ, there is a minimum cost you can manufacture an asic based miner for (in volume), and it's easy enough to calculate if you have commercial design experience or are willing to do a reasonable amount of research work on the net. Granted, some companies have more 'overheads' than others, but that's just greed or poor management. I'm talking about a well run company with experienced people and modern manufacturing methods.

[NecroBones]

ASICMINER mine themselves, and with some partners. They don't sell "retail". There is no fixed costs to "build rigs", it depends on many factors.

I beg to differ, there is a minimum cost you can manufacture an asic based miner for (in volume), and it's easy enough to calculate if you have commercial design experience or are willing to do a reasonable amount of research work on the net. Granted, some companies have more 'overheads' than others, but that's just greed or poor management. I'm talking about a well run company with experienced people and modern manufacturing methods.

We're also seeing a very rapid development cycle on the ASICs that is quickly catching up with current top-end chip fabrication technology. That is, we'll soon be seeing hashing-speed advances slow down to the pace of Moore's Law, at best (short of just packing more and more cores into a box).

Combine that with the exponential growth of the entire network's hashing speed we've been seeing lately, plus the difficulty increases that result from it, and it may reach a point where none of the hardware can be sold at a price that is sufficient to justify its manufacture. This can be staved off for a while if the value of BTC continues to climb, but we're facing a situation of diminishing returns. More people are competing to get BTC, and the minting payouts will continue to halve every few years.

So I think the question is when, and not if, we'll see mining for the sake of profit become useless. Before that happens though, all hardware has to be bought with the expectation that its worth will diminish rapidly, and the electrical cost may soon overshadow its earning rate.

[brontosaurus]

We're also seeing a very rapid development cycle on the ASICs that is quickly catching up with current top-end chip fabrication technology. That is, we'll soon be seeing hashing-speed advances slow down to the pace of Moore's Law, at best (short of just packing more and more cores into a box).

Combine that with the exponential growth of the entire network's hashing speed we've been seeing lately, plus the difficulty increases that result from it, and it may reach a point where none of the hardware can be sold at a price that is sufficient to justify its manufacture. This can be staved off for a while if the value of BTC continues to climb, but we're facing a situation of diminishing returns. More people are competing to get BTC, and the minting payouts will continue to halve every few years.

So I think the question is when, and not if, we'll see mining for the sake of profit become useless. Before that happens though, all hardware has to be bought with the expectation that its worth will diminish rapidly, and the electrical cost may soon overshadow its earning rate.

Your right about the electricity cost, it's being conveniently ignored in most cases. If you believe the rig suppliers, 1TH is going to need about 0.7kw of power to drive it. At UK costs that's close on 20 cents an hour, $4.80 a day and $144 a month. But I reckon by the end of 2014 that the same TH will earn a lowly $400 a month ..... so at least a third of earnings will go on power.

[dropt]

Your right about the electricity cost, it's being conveniently ignored in most cases. If you believe the rig suppliers, 1TH is going to need about 0.7kw of power to drive it. At UK costs that's close on 20 cents an hour, $4.80 a day and $144 a month. But I reckon by the end of 2014 that the same TH will earn a lowly $400 a month ..... so at least a third of earnings will go on power.

LOL.  Everyone always acts like mining BTC should have some monsterous payout where everyone can just quit their jobs and live the high life.  Last summer I was running 7.5GH/s of GPUs and FPGAs that consumed about 2.5kW.  Earned me an astonishing 35$ a day!  Luckily I saved those coins and in hindsight that 35$ a day turned into what would now be $4,500 a day.

[Bobsurplus]

There will always be next gen stuff. Just like gaming consoles, cell phones, computers, etc...

The question is what technology will be developed and when will it be released? Your guess is as good as anybodies. Who knows if Bitcoin will even be the crypto of choice when the next gen stuff hits the streets. All you can do is work with the information you have available for you. IMO... this is like asking if you should save for the PS5 or just buy the PS4. PS5 isn't even in the works yet...

now... is a ps4 worth buying now? That's a whole other question.

PS5 PS6 PS7, there all in the works my friend!

[maxman190]

We're also seeing a very rapid development cycle on the ASICs that is quickly catching up with current top-end chip fabrication technology. That is, we'll soon be seeing hashing-speed advances slow down to the pace of Moore's Law, at best (short of just packing more and more cores into a box).

Combine that with the exponential growth of the entire network's hashing speed we've been seeing lately, plus the difficulty increases that result from it, and it may reach a point where none of the hardware can be sold at a price that is sufficient to justify its manufacture. This can be staved off for a while if the value of BTC continues to climb, but we're facing a situation of diminishing returns. More people are competing to get BTC, and the minting payouts will continue to halve every few years.

So I think the question is when, and not if, we'll see mining for the sake of profit become useless. Before that happens though, all hardware has to be bought with the expectation that its worth will diminish rapidly, and the electrical cost may soon overshadow its earning rate.

Your right about the electricity cost, it's being conveniently ignored in most cases. If you believe the rig suppliers, 1TH is going to need about 0.7kw of power to drive it. At UK costs that's close on 20 cents an hour, $4.80 a day and $144 a month. But I reckon by the end of 2014 that the same TH will earn a lowly $400 a month ..... so at least a third of earnings will go on power.

Electricity is no problem for me. I live in an apartment with fixed monthly rent including electricity and gas/heat.

[rext]

There will always be next gen stuff. Just like gaming consoles, cell phones, computers, etc...

The question is what technology will be developed and when will it be released? Your guess is as good as anybodies. Who knows if Bitcoin will even be the crypto of choice when the next gen stuff hits the streets. All you can do is work with the information you have available for you. IMO... this is like asking if you should save for the PS5 or just buy the PS4. PS5 isn't even in the works yet...

now... is a ps4 worth buying now? That's a whole other question.

PS5 PS6 PS7, there all in the works my friend!

lolll, any good games for ps4?