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Author Topic: Ups and Downs and its simple principles  (Read 1564 times)
esse83
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September 06, 2011, 08:36:35 PM
 #1

People seem to be in bewilderment as to the causes for the drop in the value of the currency.

1) Nothing new
2) Nothin new (or exciting) on the horizon
3) No media coverage due to the aformentioned
4) Investors are fleeing due to this


Now lets be real. Bitcoin has a future if it exploits the simple fact that bitcoin grows when it offers services that no one else can deliver. Silkroad is one such example. Trying to break into established areas will be extremely difficult. Based on that simple truth bitcoin must find something that is analogous to that situation (silkroad) which creates momentum. What once was impossible suddenly became possible (in a semi safe way). Suggestions to such areas would be beneficial for bitcoin.

If you disagree then please state your arguments.

Hope this is not speculation as it is just a few statements about obvious facts? If these statements continue to be a fact then investment into the currency would make little sense, right?

(and pls no "future" prospect arguments about the technological advantages as that cannot be translated into services. We need something concrete.)

“Bitcoin is wild and crazy investment that I’m diversifying out of all the time,” - Gavin Andresen
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Gerken
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September 06, 2011, 08:39:29 PM
 #2

Maybe I could make a website selling..TSHIRTS, except I take bitcoins!  I think this is a great idea!

esse83
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September 06, 2011, 08:42:42 PM
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Nice one fucker. What about online gambling due to the fact that states around the world are banning it?

“Bitcoin is wild and crazy investment that I’m diversifying out of all the time,” - Gavin Andresen
Bitcoin_Silver_Supply
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September 06, 2011, 09:06:18 PM
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Gambling and drugs are two prime sectors.

One area that has not been tapped sufficiently is precious metals. Some friends and I have considered jumping in on a BTC-silver company for a while (huge shock with my name, I know). However, the problem is that BTCs volatility makes any business model infinitely more complex and risk-prone.

Regardless, I think a lot of people would love to purchase metals anonymously without a paper trace for the turbulent economic situation.
JeffK
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September 06, 2011, 09:11:54 PM
 #5

Nice one fucker.

Well this is off to a good start

What about online gambling due to the fact that states around the world are banning it?

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of online gambling bans if you are going Cash->BTC->Casino->BTC->Cash, it gives the Feds an opening to nail you on laundering charges.
cypherdoc
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September 06, 2011, 09:13:27 PM
 #6

there's just so many things:

1.  allows micropayments to budding musicians, artists, bloggers, journalists, and developers.
2.  allows movement of large amounts of money across borders seamlessly.
3.  instantaneous payments across the globe.
4.  could be used as a reserve currency for instant balance of payments btwn nations.
5.  could be used as a Bitcoin Standard upon which fractional reserve banking could continue in USD's.
6.  smartphone money for P2P payments for everything.
7.  smartphone money in developing nations as in M Pesa in Kenya.
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September 06, 2011, 09:19:20 PM
 #7

Niche markets with a use for bitcoin: drugs, gambling, child pornography, ATI stock ownership. Only the most boring of these will not see you thrown in a prison if caught.
esse83
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September 06, 2011, 09:21:22 PM
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there's just so many things:

1.  allows micropayments to budding musicians, artists, bloggers, journalists, and developers.
2.  allows movement of large amounts of money across borders seamlessly.
3.  instantaneous payments across the globe.
4.  could be used as a reserve currency for instant balance of payments btwn nations.
5.  could be used as a Bitcoin Standard upon which fractional reserve banking could continue in USD's.
6.  smartphone money for P2P payments for everything.
7.  smartphone money in developing nations as in M Pesa in Kenya.

That is all possible. The problem is that we cannot start at that level. First momentum and excitement must be created and only then (much later) can those possibilities be contemplated as realistic.

“Bitcoin is wild and crazy investment that I’m diversifying out of all the time,” - Gavin Andresen
esse83
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September 06, 2011, 09:24:34 PM
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Niche markets with a use for bitcoin: drugs, gambling, child pornography, ATI stock ownership. Only the most boring of these will not see you thrown in a prison if caught.

Immoral behaviour will always be a fact once you introduce anonymity (the same with cash).

“Bitcoin is wild and crazy investment that I’m diversifying out of all the time,” - Gavin Andresen
esse83
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September 06, 2011, 09:38:57 PM
 #10

Nice one fucker.

Well this is off to a good start

What about online gambling due to the fact that states around the world are banning it?

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of online gambling bans if you are going Cash->BTC->Casino->BTC->Cash, it gives the Feds an opening to nail you on laundering charges.

How would they know it was used for gambling?

“Bitcoin is wild and crazy investment that I’m diversifying out of all the time,” - Gavin Andresen
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September 06, 2011, 09:44:52 PM
 #11

Nice one fucker.

Well this is off to a good start

What about online gambling due to the fact that states around the world are banning it?

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of online gambling bans if you are going Cash->BTC->Casino->BTC->Cash, it gives the Feds an opening to nail you on laundering charges.

How would they know it was used for gambling?
Because bitcoin is inherently traceable. If you know an entry point (exchange), you can trace a coin through the system to an exit point (casino). The exchange can then be subpoenaed to identify you.
cypherdoc
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September 06, 2011, 09:45:17 PM
 #12

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of online gambling bans if you are going Cash->BTC->Casino->BTC->Cash, it gives the Feds an opening to nail you on laundering charges.

LOL.  the same 'ol "laundering" fear tactic.  lame.
cypherdoc
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September 06, 2011, 09:45:57 PM
 #13

Nice one fucker.

Well this is off to a good start

What about online gambling due to the fact that states around the world are banning it?

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of online gambling bans if you are going Cash->BTC->Casino->BTC->Cash, it gives the Feds an opening to nail you on laundering charges.

How would they know it was used for gambling?
Because bitcoin is inherently traceable. If you know an entry point (exchange), you can trace a coin through the system to an exit point (casino). The exchange can then be subpoenaed to identify you.

not with Tor.
niko
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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.


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September 06, 2011, 09:46:29 PM
 #14

I think this (and related ideas) has some merit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37171.0

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esse83
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September 06, 2011, 10:10:44 PM
 #15

Nice one fucker.

Well this is off to a good start

What about online gambling due to the fact that states around the world are banning it?

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of online gambling bans if you are going Cash->BTC->Casino->BTC->Cash, it gives the Feds an opening to nail you on laundering charges.

I am a bit confused about the concept of darkpools. But this is how I take it. People can trade without it being official (introduced to the blockchain). Now if darkpool trading is possible then how would tracing it be possible?

“Bitcoin is wild and crazy investment that I’m diversifying out of all the time,” - Gavin Andresen
cypherdoc
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September 06, 2011, 10:27:02 PM
 #16

Nice one fucker.

Well this is off to a good start

What about online gambling due to the fact that states around the world are banning it?

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of online gambling bans if you are going Cash->BTC->Casino->BTC->Cash, it gives the Feds an opening to nail you on laundering charges.

I am a bit confused about the concept of darkpools. But this is how I take it. People can trade without it being official (introduced to the blockchain). Now if darkpool trading is possible then how would tracing it be possible?

when you remove them from the exchange they get sent to an address of your choice.  since your name is associated with your acct then so is that address.
Furyan
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September 06, 2011, 10:40:24 PM
 #17

Gambling and drugs are two prime sectors.

One area that has not been tapped sufficiently is precious metals. Some friends and I have considered jumping in on a BTC-silver company for a while (huge shock with my name, I know). However, the problem is that BTCs volatility makes any business model infinitely more complex and risk-prone.

Regardless, I think a lot of people would love to purchase metals anonymously without a paper trace for the turbulent economic situation.

This idea, I like.
Bitcoin_Silver_Supply
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September 07, 2011, 12:05:21 AM
 #18

Gambling and drugs are two prime sectors.

One area that has not been tapped sufficiently is precious metals. Some friends and I have considered jumping in on a BTC-silver company for a while (huge shock with my name, I know). However, the problem is that BTCs volatility makes any business model infinitely more complex and risk-prone.

Regardless, I think a lot of people would love to purchase metals anonymously without a paper trace for the turbulent economic situation.

This idea, I like.

I wish I could claim it to be my own but the only barrier is that noone has really jumped on it yet asides some small time circulated coin sellers. If the BTC price finds some stability I will take a serious look at it soon.
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September 07, 2011, 01:02:29 AM
 #19

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of online gambling bans if you are going Cash->BTC->Casino->BTC->Cash, it gives the Feds an opening to nail you on laundering charges.

LOL.  the same 'ol "laundering" fear tactic.  lame.


yeah, i agree.  good luck in court proving:

A.  a certian bitcoin address actually ever belonged to me
and
B. that some launderer didnt send me the coins to buy something legit.

by your theory if i sent someone a stolen/laundered bitcoin right now then that person is guilty of a crime.  that would probably make just about every bitcoin user a criminal eventually seeing how often bitcoins are stolen or laundered.

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September 07, 2011, 01:49:49 AM
 #20

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of online gambling bans if you are going Cash->BTC->Casino->BTC->Cash, it gives the Feds an opening to nail you on laundering charges.

LOL.  the same 'ol "laundering" fear tactic.  lame.


yeah, i agree.  good luck in court proving:

A.  a certian bitcoin address actually ever belonged to me
and
B. that some launderer didnt send me the coins to buy something legit.

by your theory if i sent someone a stolen/laundered bitcoin right now then that person is guilty of a crime.  that would probably make just about every bitcoin user a criminal eventually seeing how often bitcoins are stolen or laundered.

I went to Wells Fencego today and exchanged a sleeve for five doubles.
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