[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Melech]

I am a skeptical person, and if I don't know a person, I assume they are a scammer, trying to take my money...

I assume every proposal is guilty until proven innocent.

I want to give them time to prove their innocence before I vote to give them my money.

ugh - your NOT giving away YOUR money - ugh

You sure you know how this works?

I view it as my money in the same way as I view how the federal government spends my taxes as my money... the 10% budget is essentially a tax, right?

TAX - defined

a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.



If it was a TAX - Evan would get all the monies and then would have to distribute those funds

This is BY NO MEANS a TAX

Are you implying that Obama gets all the US tax money?

[1713916158]

1713916158

[1713916158]

1713916158

[1713916158]

1713916158

[BusterNutBag]

I am a skeptical person, and if I don't know a person, I assume they are a scammer, trying to take my money...

I assume every proposal is guilty until proven innocent.

I want to give them time to prove their innocence before I vote to give them my money.

ugh - your NOT giving away YOUR money - ugh

You sure you know how this works?

I view it as my money in the same way as I view how the federal government spends my taxes as my money... the 10% budget is essentially a tax, right?

TAX - defined

a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.



If it was a TAX - Evan would get all the monies and then would have to distribute those funds

This is BY NO MEANS a TAX

Are you implying that Obama gets all the US tax money?

I'm done here -
Let us know when you get a clue........

[Melech]

Much in the same way that congress debates and votes on how US taxes are spent, MNs vote how the Dash taxes are spent.

Also, in the US, since day 1, companies who are friends with the politicians tend to profit the most from the spending of the taxes.  Halliburton, etc...

I only request more time for debate on proposals.

[Solarminer]

Incorrect!  We spent hours and hours to get a budget that didn't just tax the system.

#1.  A proposal needs to be voted on by at least 10% of the votes to get accepted.
#2.  If there are no proposals or less than what would fill the 10% allocated block rewards that amount of dash are not created.  Not burned.  Just not created.  (This is a genius Evan idea!)

So if there are are a bunch of 0 value proposals.  They will get low votes/no votes and will not get accepted.  Only valuable proposals get accepted and funded.

Contrast this with a taxing system.  A certain % is taken out, even if not needed.  Then it is allocated in some way, usually to use all of it up even if not on useful things.  This is where the wasteful spending comes in.

Now your next comment you are about to make is that this "wastes" dash and will cause the dash creation rate to change.  When less coins are created the value of existing dash goes up.  So it is not "wasting" dash funds by not creating them, just not diluting the value of current dash holders.

Regardless of whether the entire 10% is spent, it is still a tax.  If its not all spent, then the system is only being taxed 5% or 8% instead of 10%, but its still a tax

Read above again.  The proposals need to positive votes to get in.  This is like purchasing a coke.  If you don't want it you don't buy it.  That isn't a tax.  This is like buying a coke but the decision is based on % of votes.

[Melech]

I'm sorry if you guys still can't see that its a tax, but I'm not going to argue semantics all day...

If no proposals get passed, its a 0% tax rate, if half the budget fills, its 5% tax rate, if the entire budget is spent, then its a 10% tax rate.

[Melech]

Not only is the budget a tax... if you do not own a MN, you have "taxation without representation"

[Taylor05]

I'm sorry if you guys still can't see that its a tax, but I'm not going to argue semantics all day...

If no proposals get passed, its a 0% tax rate, if half the budget fills, its 5% tax rate, if the entire budget is spent, then its a 10% tax rate.

How the hell is a failed proposal a tax? A tax rate of 0% is still zero. Zero is nothing. Nothing is the absence of anything. Therefore, a 0% tax rate is the absence of a tax. As in NOT a tax.

See Dr. Michio Kaku explain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV5Wo7YrZIU

[Melech]

I would like to see Dash succeed, but if you turn it into an oligarchy, it will go the route of PayCoin... I do not want to see that happen

[Solarminer]

Much in the same way that congress debates and votes on how US taxes are spent, MNs vote how the Dash taxes are spent.

Also, in the US, since day 1, companies who are friends with the politicians tend to profit the most from the spending of the taxes.  Halliburton, etc...

I only request more time for debate on proposals.

I am replying to you because this is an important misunderstanding.

There is no reason we should copy a broken congress or bureaucratic government!  Even the electoral voting system is archaic, we can just count individual votes now - we are not traveling on horseback.

Yeah, do you know why lobbying and payoffs work?  It is because the votes are not actually done by the people, they are done by proxy.  Why would you give up voting rights to 500 overpaid politicians and expect them to vote on the things you want?  That also only works when you are forced to pay a tax to support those 500 overpaid politicians....

What is the reason to spend hours debating something?  That would only be needed if there is a disagreement.  Once a certain % of vote threshold is attained, there is no need to debate.  If a proposal was on the fence, it may not pass.  It may get revisions before it passes.  That can all be coordinated by a threshold of votes.

The system works!  The masternode owners, who also have the most to gain/lose by voting, vote for the proposal that will help Dash in the future.  There is no proxy voting, no forced taxation, no need for debates.

[Melech]

I am replying to you because this is an important misunderstanding.

There is no reason we should copy a broken congress or bureaucratic government!  Even the electoral voting system is archaic, we can just count individual votes now - we are not traveling on horseback.

Yeah, do you know why lobbying and payoffs work?  It is because the votes are not actually done by the people, they are done by proxy.  Why would you give up voting rights to 500 overpaid politicians and expect them to vote on the things you want?  That also only works when you are forced to pay a tax to support those 500 overpaid politicians....

What is the reason to spend hours debating something?  That would only be needed if there is a disagreement.  Once a certain % of vote threshold is attained, there is no need to debate.  If a proposal was on the fence, it may not pass.  It may get revisions before it passes.  That can all be coordinated by a threshold of votes.

The system works!  The masternode owners, who also have the most to gain/lose by voting, vote for the proposal that will help Dash in the future.  There is no proxy voting, no forced taxation, no need for debates.

If you had read the entire discussion you should know that I wanted to get some questions answered about the recent soda machine vote that paid out only 3 days after being proposed.  3 days is not long enough to uncover a potential scammer.

I have no interest in copying a broken system, nor am I suggesting any such thing.

I am trying to help design a better system, one that is not broken, or easily breakable...

It's constructive criticism... take it for what it is...

I have not suggested anything unreasonable or made any claim that is not 100% accurate...

The trolls here are seriously making me consider selling my MN

[BigTimeProducer]

Much in the same way that congress debates and votes on how US taxes are spent, MNs vote how the Dash taxes are spent.

Also, in the US, since day 1, companies who are friends with the politicians tend to profit the most from the spending of the taxes.  Halliburton, etc...

I only request more time for debate on proposals.

I am replying to you because this is an important misunderstanding.

There is no reason we should copy a broken congress or bureaucratic government!  Even the electoral voting system is archaic, we can just count individual votes now - we are not traveling on horseback.

Yeah, do you know why lobbying and payoffs work?  It is because the votes are not actually done by the people, they are done by proxy.  Why would you give up voting rights to 500 overpaid politicians and expect them to vote on the things you want?  That also only works when you are forced to pay a tax to support those 500 overpaid politicians....

What is the reason to spend hours debating something?  That would only be needed if there is a disagreement.  Once a certain % of vote threshold is attained, there is no need to debate.  If a proposal was on the fence, it may not pass.  It may get revisions before it passes.  That can all be coordinated by a threshold of votes.

The system works!  The masternode owners, who also have the most to gain/lose by voting, vote for the proposal that will help Dash in the future.  There is no proxy voting, no forced taxation, no need for debates.

I think it makes perfect sense to have something like x days before a proposal can be voted on. It's out in the open, and there's just enough time for something that doesn't pass the sniff test to come to light. Even a mere 5 days before voting can begin could be sufficient.

People are voting on proposals that they think sound good, but how many people are actually vetting the person who put it out?

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

I am replying to you because this is an important misunderstanding.

There is no reason we should copy a broken congress or bureaucratic government!  Even the electoral voting system is archaic, we can just count individual votes now - we are not traveling on horseback.

Yeah, do you know why lobbying and payoffs work?  It is because the votes are not actually done by the people, they are done by proxy.  Why would you give up voting rights to 500 overpaid politicians and expect them to vote on the things you want?  That also only works when you are forced to pay a tax to support those 500 overpaid politicians....

What is the reason to spend hours debating something?  That would only be needed if there is a disagreement.  Once a certain % of vote threshold is attained, there is no need to debate.  If a proposal was on the fence, it may not pass.  It may get revisions before it passes.  That can all be coordinated by a threshold of votes.

The system works!  The masternode owners, who also have the most to gain/lose by voting, vote for the proposal that will help Dash in the future.  There is no proxy voting, no forced taxation, no need for debates.

If you had read the entire discussion you should know that I wanted to get some questions answered about the recent soda machine vote that paid out only 3 days after being proposed.  3 days is not long enough to uncover a potential scammer.

I have no interest in copying a broken system, nor am I suggesting any such thing.

I am trying to help design a better system, one that is not broken, or easily breakable...

It's constructive criticism... take it for what it is...

I have not suggested anything unreasonable or made any claim that is not 100% accurate...

The trolls here are seriously making me consider selling my MN

A potential scammer would lead to people doing more due diligence and not voting until they have all of the facts. There is no requirement to vote right away, so if a proposal is more detailed, MN owners can take their time to vote, and the proposal will not pass right away. This particular proposal was made by a well-known member of the community, and was fairly straight forward. That's why it received so many votes in a short period of time and was funded. I doubt that a detailed proposal from an unknown entity would have done so well so quickly. Until that scenario happens, there is no need to complain. If it does happen, then we will need to change it. The fact that projects can receive funding quickly if needed is a strength at this point, IMHO.

In regards to selling your MN, don't let emotions here cloud your judgement, young padawan...

[Melech]

I think it makes perfect sense to have something like x days before a proposal can be voted on. It's out in the open, and there's just enough time for something that doesn't pass the sniff test to come to light. Even a mere 5 days before voting can begin could be sufficient.

People are voting on proposals that they think sound good, but how many people are actually vetting the person who put it out?

I agree completely.  Questions and answers will change the way a person votes.

I noticed on https://www.dashwhale.org/p/590-soda-machine, 29 NO votes rolled in during the hour between me asking who owns/keeps the soda machine and the answer...

If there was time, I would have liked to ask more questions, like why $400 for graphics design?  Many could whip out something amazing in an hour for free...

I just want time to ask questions and have them answered... make sure everything is kosher before handing out money

I see no legitimate reason to not wait a week or more... seems REALLY fishy trying to argue that a vote should be passed within a day of being proposed...

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

I think it makes perfect sense to have something like x days before a proposal can be voted on. It's out in the open, and there's just enough time for something that doesn't pass the sniff test to come to light. Even a mere 5 days before voting can begin could be sufficient.

People are voting on proposals that they think sound good, but how many people are actually vetting the person who put it out?

I agree completely.  Questions and answers will change the way a person votes.

I noticed on https://www.dashwhale.org/p/590-soda-machine, 29 NO votes rolled in during the hour between me asking who owns/keeps the soda machine and the answer...

If there was time, I would have liked to ask more questions, like why $400 for graphics design?  Many could whip out something amazing in an hour for free...

I just want time to ask questions and have them answered... make sure everything is kosher before handing out money

I see no legitimate reason to not wait a week or more... seems REALLY fishy trying to argue that a vote should be passed within a day of being proposed...

You can handle your share of the vote as you see fit. That is your right. As is others to vote in the time that they see fit.

[Macrochip]

if you do not own a MN, you have "taxation without representation"

Who's being "taxed" without being represented?

Dash holders? Simply holding Dash comes neither with a "tax" nor any income to be "taxed", hence no right to be "represented".

Miners? They vote and are represented by their hashing power and the client-implementations they use. If they don't like a proposal they can let the network die (and relinquish any income ofc) which is an even greater force than Masternode owners.

It's like saying "Australians don't get to vote on how New Zealand tax money is spent, unfair!"

Other than that I agree that the waiting period as well as the participation rate should both be raised.

[oaxaca]

...I would have liked to ask more questions...

Now you're walking the walk.  Exercise your obligations as a masternode owner.  It's an ongoing, interactive process.  Be involved, be awake, and be the ball...

[Melech]

if you do not own a MN, you have "taxation without representation"

Who's being "taxed" without being represented?

Dash holders? Simply holding Dash comes neither with a "tax" nor any income to be "taxed", hence no right to be "represented".

Miners? They vote and are represented by their hashing power and the client-implementations they use. If they don't like a proposal they can let the network die (and relinquish any income ofc) which is an even greater force than Masternode owners.

It's like saying "Australians don't get to vote on how New Zealand tax money is spent, unfair!"

Other than that I agree that the waiting period as well as the participation rate should both be raised.

Yes and no... creating an extra 10% of a currency devalues what a person is holding by 10%... so essentially everyone is being taxed through devaluation of currency, otherwise known as inflation

Not to mention, if these are legitimate expenses, you can expect the recipient to liquidate the Dash to cover the cost... Last I checked, no airlines accept $500 worth of Dash... they want USD...

[BrainShutdown]

if you do not own a MN, you have "taxation without representation"

Who's being "taxed" without being represented?

Dash holders? Simply holding Dash comes neither with a "tax" nor any income to be "taxed", hence no right to be "represented".

Miners? They vote and are represented by their hashing power and the client-implementations they use. If they don't like a proposal they can let the network die (and relinquish any income ofc) which is an even greater force than Masternode owners.

It's like saying "Australians don't get to vote on how New Zealand tax money is spent, unfair!"

Other than that I agree that the waiting period as well as the participation rate should both be raised.

Yes and no... creating an extra 10% of a currency devalues what a person is holding by 10%... so essentially everyone is being taxed through devaluation of currency, otherwise known as inflation

Not to mention, if these are legitimate expenses, you can expect the recipient to liquidate the Dash to cover the cost... Last I checked, no airlines accept $500 worth of Dash... they want USD...

Wrong! No new currency is created...

[spatula]

if you do not own a MN, you have "taxation without representation"

Who's being "taxed" without being represented?

Dash holders? Simply holding Dash comes neither with a "tax" nor any income to be "taxed", hence no right to be "represented".

Miners? They vote and are represented by their hashing power and the client-implementations they use. If they don't like a proposal they can let the network die (and relinquish any income ofc) which is an even greater force than Masternode owners.

It's like saying "Australians don't get to vote on how New Zealand tax money is spent, unfair!"

Other than that I agree that the waiting period as well as the participation rate should both be raised.

Yes and no... creating an extra 10% of a currency devalues what a person is holding by 10%... so essentially everyone is being taxed through devaluation of currency, otherwise known as inflation

Not to mention, if these are legitimate expenses, you can expect the recipient to liquidate the Dash to cover the cost... Last I checked, no airlines accept $500 worth of Dash... they want USD...

Wrong! No new currency is created...

I see both sides of this argument, but you cant deny that new coins came into existence because of the budget. If it were not for the budget, the coins wouldn't have been created.

[Solarminer]

if you do not own a MN, you have "taxation without representation"

Who's being "taxed" without being represented?

Dash holders? Simply holding Dash comes neither with a "tax" nor any income to be "taxed", hence no right to be "represented".

Miners? They vote and are represented by their hashing power and the client-implementations they use. If they don't like a proposal they can let the network die (and relinquish any income ofc) which is an even greater force than Masternode owners.

It's like saying "Australians don't get to vote on how New Zealand tax money is spent, unfair!"

Other than that I agree that the waiting period as well as the participation rate should both be raised.

Yes and no... creating an extra 10% of a currency devalues what a person is holding by 10%... so essentially everyone is being taxed through devaluation of currency, otherwise known as inflation

Not to mention, if these are legitimate expenses, you can expect the recipient to liquidate the Dash to cover the cost... Last I checked, no airlines accept $500 worth of Dash... they want USD...

Wrong! No new currency is created...

I see both sides of this argument, but you cant deny that new coins came into existence because of the budget. If it were not for the budget, the coins wouldn't have been created.

To be clear:
The budget is the system that allows proposals to be submitted and voted on.  It doesn't necessary allocate funds.

Dash is only created when a viable, useful, quality proposal(determined by masternodes) is accepted.  No good proposals = no new coins.

Originally, blockrewards were split between masternodes and miners.  Both parties sacrificed part of their rewards for the option for the budget system to vote in proposals.