[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[coins101]

I have asked before, but:

* Can DarkSend be the default payment option, with Darkcoin as the tick box option? For the average person, using darksend should be the norm. Those that want cheaper payment tools can opt out. People that use Darksend would be technical, but as things move on ordinary people would just expect anonymity from the word go.

Other:

* Is it worth having a market setting mechanism for node fees? i.e. nodes can elect what to charge?

* Exchanges and other services such as pools, gambling, stores, online wallet services, etc will be collection and pinch points in the network and will accumulate coins. What happens if we get hot spots of legitimate businesses where a court order can be obtained so that officials can go and sit on a system and monitor it, etc?

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[Acidyo]

I am not sure of this.....

A few posts ago we were talking about obfuscated IPs and adding a stronger layer of anonymity. Why would one want to run servers with known IP addresses especially if there are other kind of ramifications besides denial/service poisoning?

It's hard for me to keep up with the entire thread, but couldn't you just run a TOR node?

Yes you could run your master node via tor,

Your name sounds really familiar, where may I have heard it before?

[AlexGR]

Thinking about how to violate the system with the mining reward: Say I am a pool operator and find blocks frequently. Is there a way where I can forge the transactions of the last block to make it appear that the DarkSend was performed in Masternode A instead of Masternode B, so that A gets the mining fee instead of B who actually performed it?

[luke997]

The next stage of DarkSend

The design of Darkcoin is all about economic incentives, I've tried to bake as much of that in as possible. I've been thinking about the reliance on master nodes in our new design for securing the network and I see some room for improvement.

With the current design we will require 1000DRK to operate a master node. That requires you putting 1000DRK in a hotwallet (dangerous) only to collect the collateral fees which won't amount to much.

So what do we want?

- We want as many master nodes as possible (the more nodes the more secure the network)
- We want them to be profitable to run
- We want it to be very expensive investment to operate a master node

So I propose the following solution, each block the last master node will receive 10% of the mining reward (in addition to the reward given to the miner). So for example, if the mining reward was 19DRK the last master node will automatically receive 1.9DRK.

This also has some really great side effects:

- It creates a completely new type of investor that buys DRK and holds it (where as miners create dark coin and sell it for the most part)
- It adds a ton of full nodes to the network
- It creates demand and scarcity, which should provide a nice return for our investors

Also, these payments are completely secure. New blocks with the dividend payment made out to the incorrect master node will be rejected (the whole network knows who won the election).

At the present moment we have a chicken and egg problem. We need master nodes to support darksend and we don't want to go live with 1 or 2 master nodes. To solve this we will implement the election code into the main client, along with the payments to master nodes while DarkSend is still beta.

What type of return will you see?

- If there’s 1 capable master node, you’ll receive all payments 576*(AverageReward/10) per day

Capable Nodes, Daily Reward
1, 1094DRK
2, 547DKR
5, 218DRK
10, 109DRK
20, 54DRK
50, 21DRK
100, 11DRK

As you can see, we’ll quickly reach equilibrium with the price and at the same time this will create buying pressure raising the price more and causing the network to become increasingly secure.

Also, we can build our master node network now in the immediate. Users can buy the darkcoin needed to run one and they will just run the beta client. We'll open source the election code and hard fork to add the payments to master nodes in and our network will be secure by the time we're ready to do a full launch.

I really love the idea, thoughts?

I think it would be good to tie the investment requirement to the price - when the coin is more popular, needs more nodes for the security - with the higher price it might limit amount of nodes.

Assuming the difficulty is somewhat related to the price (albeit being skewed a little bit now) - why not make the requirement tied to the difficulty level.
This way the node reward should always self regulate and always attract nodes - no matter the coin price.

All in all this ingenious idea. In every single way it strengthens the coin.

[eduffield]

I am not sure of this.....

A few posts ago we were talking about obfuscated IPs and adding a stronger layer of anonymity. Why would one want to run servers with known IP addresses especially if there are other kind of ramifications besides denial/service poisoning?

I think you're missing a core concept, the master nodes are just what does the mixing and they get paid for it. They don't actually have any money in the pool anymore. Sorry things are changing really fast, I need to update the whitepaper.

[gszabi]

Will be possible to use VPS servers as node? Benefits: uptime, good hardware, bandwidth (not important maybe)

[eduffield]

Thinking about how to violate the system with the mining reward: Say I am a pool operator and find blocks frequently. Is there a way where I can forge the transactions of the last block to make it appear that the DarkSend was performed in Masternode A instead of Masternode B, so that A gets the mining fee instead of B who actually performed it?

The whole network knows it's suppose to go to Masternode A, so the rest of the network would reject your block.

[InternetApe]

Thinking about how to violate the system with the mining reward: Say I am a pool operator and find blocks frequently. Is there a way where I can forge the transactions of the last block to make it appear that the DarkSend was performed in Masternode A instead of Masternode B, so that A gets the mining fee instead of B who actually performed it?

All the nodes would get the fees, it would be divided by all the nodes. So not just the node that processed gets it.

[eduffield]

Will be possible to use VPS servers as node? Benefits: uptime, good hardware, bandwidth (not important maybe)

definitely.

[coins101]

What happens when max coins is reached?

[sdersdf2]

The next stage of DarkSend

The design of Darkcoin is all about economic incentives, I've tried to bake as much of that in as possible. I've been thinking about the reliance on master nodes in our new design for securing the network and I see some room for improvement.

With the current design we will require 1000DRK to operate a master node. That requires you putting 1000DRK in a hotwallet (dangerous) only to collect the collateral fees which won't amount to much.

So what do we want?

- We want as many master nodes as possible (the more nodes the more secure the network)
- We want them to be profitable to run
- We want it to be very expensive investment to operate a master node

So I propose the following solution, each block the last master node will receive 10% of the mining reward (in addition to the reward given to the miner). So for example, if the mining reward was 19DRK the last master node will automatically receive 1.9DRK.

This also has some really great side effects:

- It creates a completely new type of investor that buys DRK and holds it (where as miners create dark coin and sell it for the most part)
- It adds a ton of full nodes to the network
- It creates demand and scarcity, which should provide a nice return for our investors

Also, these payments are completely secure. New blocks with the dividend payment made out to the incorrect master node will be rejected (the whole network knows who won the election).

At the present moment we have a chicken and egg problem. We need master nodes to support darksend and we don't want to go live with 1 or 2 master nodes. To solve this we will implement the election code into the main client, along with the payments to master nodes while DarkSend is still beta.

What type of return will you see?

- If there’s 1 capable master node, you’ll receive all payments 576*(AverageReward/10) per day

Capable Nodes, Daily Reward
1, 1094DRK
2, 547DKR
5, 218DRK
10, 109DRK
20, 54DRK
50, 21DRK
100, 11DRK

As you can see, we’ll quickly reach equilibrium with the price and at the same time this will create buying pressure raising the price more and causing the network to become increasingly secure.

Also, we can build our master node network now in the immediate. Users can buy the darkcoin needed to run one and they will just run the beta client. We'll open source the election code and hard fork to add the payments to master nodes in and our network will be secure by the time we're ready to do a full launch.

I really love the idea, thoughts?

Yet another real innovative idea from the mind of eduffield - not sure about the specific details, but the general concept sounds promising, and I am very glad you're thinking about ways to improve market conditions for the coin.

[TanteStefana]

- windows ok? Yes
- does it have to be guaranteed to run 24/7 or can it be a desktop computer that's on 2 hours a day? 24/7 is required, otherwise you'll get the percentage your computer is on.
- public ip? port 9999 will need to be open
- static ip? doesn't matter
- is the ip compiled into the wallet? no, it's discovered
- possible to run multiple nodes on the same computer? each 1000DRK would be entered as a "ticket" for the election, so one daemon is fine.

Clearer, Evan, please.  You lost me.  you say 24/7 is required but then say you'll get percentage your computer is on.  Did you mean to say it's not required to run 24/7, but anything less would give out a proportionately smaller chance of reward?

Are you also saying that several wallets can be run from the same IP address?  As long as there is 1000 dark in each one?  Wallet being a node?

Finally, can we run our wallets with the passphrase on? 

It almost seems like this could be a version of proof of stake?

[AlexGR]

Thinking about how to violate the system with the mining reward: Say I am a pool operator and find blocks frequently. Is there a way where I can forge the transactions of the last block to make it appear that the DarkSend was performed in Masternode A instead of Masternode B, so that A gets the mining fee instead of B who actually performed it?

All the nodes would get the fees, it would be divided by all the nodes. So not just the node that processed gets it.

That sounds fairer in principle than just having the last node (who processed a transaction I suppose) get the payment... but I'm wondering about this: What if a node misbehaves when it transacts but still gets paid regardless if it performs its job adequately? Is it possible that payment-collateral lost from misbehavior (if I understood correctly - and there is a good chance I am confusing the fee by those who initiate transactions and those who process them) can be replenished by being a miner node, thus canceling the misbehavior penalty?

Again, I'm throwing questions and ideas around for troubleshooting/futureproofing as I'm not familiar with the under-the-hood-mechanics of how all these operate.

[darkproton]

great stuffs eduff!  I have a question. I have a mess load of dark. I want to be part of the mixing but am worried about leaving my coins on an ec2 or other cloud service. Could I run a raspberry pi configuration to be the mixer? Sorry if this is redundant or covered but I haven't compiled the dark wallet and am uncertain if there is a version for the pi. The pi route appeals to me because I could leave it running 24/7. Any thoughts would be awesome.

[humanitee]

What happens when max coins is reached?

We're all dead when that happens at the current rate of 7% per year.

[eduffield]

What happens when max coins is reached?

We actually never will reach max coins, since the decline is 7% a year, it goes on forever.

Edit: Actually, it'll take about 350 years.

[anonymousxx1503]

I would really love to be a part of this but that would require me buying a PC to run 24/7.  What sort of hardware would be required to run a node? Would a low power PC be acceptable or does it need to be capable of doing a lot of hashing, etc?

You could run a micro on EC2 for $14/mo to do it.

A 5$ digital ocean VPS would probably be a way better deal! As a Darkcoin early investor, let's just say I'll be running a few masternodes  


By the way I think this is an amazing idea, darkcoin is a living, breathing thing and it's always evolving it seems. Waiting to go in for the kill on inferior coins.

Darkcoin is a panther. Killing Machine.

What happens when max coins is reached?

Let's worry about that in 75 years or something.

[anonymousxx1503]

What happens when max coins is reached?

We're all dead when that happens at the current rate of 7% per year.

Yup, we'll let Evan Duffield the third or Evan Duffield Jr. worry about that.

[InternetApe]

What happens when max coins is reached?

"We actually never will reach max coins, since the decline is 7% a year, it goes on forever. Or I guess after 300 years it would be too low to calculate"

[slyA]

What happens when max coins is reached?

We actually never will reach max coins, since the decline is 7% a year, it goes on forever.

So my grand kids grand kids can inherit my DRK estate? Do I have to place it in escrow for them until they turn 188?