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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9574957 times)
qwizzie
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September 24, 2017, 05:55:56 PM
Last edit: September 24, 2017, 06:12:54 PM by qwizzie

Also the InstantSend vulnerability was described in more detail at the Dash Conference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ExmIqRqOk
(see the 40 minutes marker)

Basicly it has to do with how InstantSend can revert back to previous blocks (even after it got confirmed through proof of work).
A masternode owner with six masternodes could take advantage of that by calculating high scores for their own masternodes
by making a lot of InstantSend transactions offline.

Currently the fix to that vulnerability is :

* making it impossible for Instantsend to revert back to older blocks
* the calculatescore now includes a need for 15 confirmations, before it can calculate the score. This means a pack of 6 masternodes can not calculate/influence their score
   offline anymore.  

InstantSend is currently disabled through a spork and will be fixed in Dash update 12.2

Note 1 : as the fix is still work in progress, the code could still be subject to changes.
Note 2 : above mentioned InstandSend vulnerability and the planned fix is what i summarized from the presentation, it could be subject to misinterpretation from my side.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
The network tries to produce one block per 10 minutes. It does this by automatically adjusting how difficult it is to produce blocks.
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sidhujag
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September 24, 2017, 07:29:43 PM

Also the InstantSend vulnerability was described in more detail at the Dash Conference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ExmIqRqOk
(see the 40 minutes marker)

Basicly it has to do with how InstantSend can revert back to previous blocks (even after it got confirmed through proof of work).
A masternode owner with six masternodes could take advantage of that by calculating high scores for their own masternodes
by making a lot of InstantSend transactions offline.

Currently the fix to that vulnerability is :

* making it impossible for Instantsend to revert back to older blocks
* the calculatescore now includes a need for 15 confirmations, before it can calculate the score. This means a pack of 6 masternodes can not calculate/influence their score
   offline anymore.  

InstantSend is currently disabled through a spork and will be fixed in Dash update 12.2

Note 1 : as the fix is still work in progress, the code could still be subject to changes.
Note 2 : above mentioned InstandSend vulnerability and the planned fix is what i summarized from the presentation, it could be subject to misinterpretation from my side.
How can you use the blockhash for quorum when you do not know masternode lists on a per block basis.. you only have the latest? Imagine i had to resync.. how will quorums be validated in the past when the past mn list is not available?
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September 24, 2017, 08:55:29 PM

Also the InstantSend vulnerability was described in more detail at the Dash Conference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ExmIqRqOk
(see the 40 minutes marker)

Basicly it has to do with how InstantSend can revert back to previous blocks (even after it got confirmed through proof of work).
A masternode owner with six masternodes could take advantage of that by calculating high scores for their own masternodes
by making a lot of InstantSend transactions offline.

Currently the fix to that vulnerability is :

* making it impossible for Instantsend to revert back to older blocks
* the calculatescore now includes a need for 15 confirmations, before it can calculate the score. This means a pack of 6 masternodes can not calculate/influence their score
   offline anymore.  

InstantSend is currently disabled through a spork and will be fixed in Dash update 12.2

Note 1 : as the fix is still work in progress, the code could still be subject to changes.
Note 2 : above mentioned InstandSend vulnerability and the planned fix is what i summarized from the presentation, it could be subject to misinterpretation from my side.
How can you use the blockhash for quorum when you do not know masternode lists on a per block basis.. you only have the latest? Imagine i had to resync.. how will quorums be validated in the past when the past mn list is not available?

I'm assuming there is a mn list that gets synced during startup of your wallet. In case of a sync from scratch where the mn list does not exist, it will be newly created and then synced.
How the blockhash for quorum interacts exactly with that masternode list, so that it can obtain all its history .. i dont know.
Hopefully someone in here can answer that for you. You can also create a thread on the dashtalk forum, frankly its a much better forum to get answers to technical questions like these
as the core-team hangs out there much more.

 

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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September 24, 2017, 09:26:32 PM

Also the InstantSend vulnerability was described in more detail at the Dash Conference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ExmIqRqOk
(see the 40 minutes marker)

Basicly it has to do with how InstantSend can revert back to previous blocks (even after it got confirmed through proof of work).
A masternode owner with six masternodes could take advantage of that by calculating high scores for their own masternodes
by making a lot of InstantSend transactions offline.

Currently the fix to that vulnerability is :

* making it impossible for Instantsend to revert back to older blocks
* the calculatescore now includes a need for 15 confirmations, before it can calculate the score. This means a pack of 6 masternodes can not calculate/influence their score
   offline anymore.  

InstantSend is currently disabled through a spork and will be fixed in Dash update 12.2

Note 1 : as the fix is still work in progress, the code could still be subject to changes.
Note 2 : above mentioned InstandSend vulnerability and the planned fix is what i summarized from the presentation, it could be subject to misinterpretation from my side.
How can you use the blockhash for quorum when you do not know masternode lists on a per block basis.. you only have the latest? Imagine i had to resync.. how will quorums be validated in the past when the past mn list is not available?

I'm assuming there is a mn list that gets synced during startup of your wallet. In case of a sync from scratch where the mn list does not exist, it will be newly created and then synced.
How the blockhash for quorum interacts exactly with that masternode list, so that it can obtain all its history .. i dont know.
Hopefully someone in here can answer that for you. You can also create a thread on the dashtalk forum, frankly its a much better forum to get answers to technical questions like these
as the core-team hangs out there much more.

 
Yea i know it forces sync of latest list but how say it ensures certain masternodes were selectes at a set.block thru a random selection is still not clear. I think since its p2p by definition it cannot form consensus and is tradeoff of network storage requirements vs security.

Ahh so looks like its a "soft consensus" so its vulnerable to replay attacks and the network just assumes noone will change the payout and quorum structures manually on their nodes because network wont know the difference if you did.

https://hackernoon.com/hong-kong-research-and-planning-4206e065aa9c

He seems to realize the problem and is doing it via a hard consensus so not p2p based list anymore in evolution im guessing. I will make a post on dashtalk i guess to learn more.
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September 24, 2017, 10:44:56 PM

Also the InstantSend vulnerability was described in more detail at the Dash Conference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ExmIqRqOk
(see the 40 minutes marker)

Basicly it has to do with how InstantSend can revert back to previous blocks (even after it got confirmed through proof of work).
A masternode owner with six masternodes could take advantage of that by calculating high scores for their own masternodes
by making a lot of InstantSend transactions offline.

Currently the fix to that vulnerability is :

* making it impossible for Instantsend to revert back to older blocks
* the calculatescore now includes a need for 15 confirmations, before it can calculate the score. This means a pack of 6 masternodes can not calculate/influence their score
   offline anymore.  

InstantSend is currently disabled through a spork and will be fixed in Dash update 12.2

Note 1 : as the fix is still work in progress, the code could still be subject to changes.
Note 2 : above mentioned InstandSend vulnerability and the planned fix is what i summarized from the presentation, it could be subject to misinterpretation from my side.
How can you use the blockhash for quorum when you do not know masternode lists on a per block basis.. you only have the latest? Imagine i had to resync.. how will quorums be validated in the past when the past mn list is not available?

I'm assuming there is a mn list that gets synced during startup of your wallet. In case of a sync from scratch where the mn list does not exist, it will be newly created and then synced.
How the blockhash for quorum interacts exactly with that masternode list, so that it can obtain all its history .. i dont know.
Hopefully someone in here can answer that for you. You can also create a thread on the dashtalk forum, frankly its a much better forum to get answers to technical questions like these
as the core-team hangs out there much more.

 
Yea i know it forces sync of latest list but how say it ensures certain masternodes were selectes at a set.block thru a random selection is still not clear. I think since its p2p by definition it cannot form consensus and is tradeoff of network storage requirements vs security.

Ahh so looks like its a "soft consensus" so its vulnerable to replay attacks and the network just assumes noone will change the payout and quorum structures manually on their nodes because network wont know the difference if you did.

https://hackernoon.com/hong-kong-research-and-planning-4206e065aa9c

He seems to realize the problem and is doing it via a hard consensus so not p2p based list anymore in evolution im guessing. I will make a post on dashtalk i guess to learn more.

It's deterministic based on mined block hash so... (experts correct me if I'm wrong please)

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September 24, 2017, 10:47:55 PM



The Monero blockchain can NOT be verified with a pubkey.  A Monero Transaction Can be verified,  That is a BIG difference. 
Yes thanks for correction.

Why would you want to verify other's transactions? That is the entire point, that you shouldn't.

If the protocol and the encoding procedure is bug-free, then it's just as valid transaction even if it's masked. And we know the whole point of hash functions and public key cryptography is that you cant recreate the same data from different source, collision protection.

If that mechanism is sound, then who cares what the transaction is, nobody can steal your money and nobody even knows who and how much money they have. Only those that you do business with will.

That is the whole point. You don't need a public ledge, a rich list, and such. It's very privacy invasive.

It’s all based on trust: trust in the “hopium” than that the client you happen to be using actually faithfully implements the protocol; trust in the ‘experts’ that the chain is ok when either some rogue group says it isn’t or when your own client software says it isn’t; trust in developers that the code isn’t doing some mad corrupt leakage out to an address that nobody can see or audit; trust in a centralised encryption algorithm that it won't be sprung open with a can opener a few years down the line to reveal every transaction in history. (A 'viewkey' doesn't in the least change this fact by the way. All a viewkey is is a private key with read-only privilages, it isn't a substitute for a fully transparent chain).


Just as with Dash's hopium that the Masternode system won't be broken or abused in some way.
...etc...

Did you even READ what Toknormal said?  There is no "Hopium" as you can SEE everything done on the blockchain, you simply can't TRACE it.  The Inputs and outputs are clear, Dash mixes by creating exactly the same denominations and entering them in the block chain at the same time, input = output and thus with one round, an output has 3 possible inputs.  Do this once, you have the same amount of "mixing" as Monero has.  But there is a possibility that the Masternode, who only gets chosen 1:4500 times, is spying, so we allow for as many rounds of mixing as you care to do.  After 8 rounds of mixing, even if someone can spy with 80% of the masternodes, the likelihood of seeing where funds are is minuscule.  And that's basically for the paranoid, because Masternodes are well distributed and all over the world.

In Monero, you can not see the blockchain.  Inputs and outputs are obfuscated in a mess.  Which by the way, how do you know there is no key to unravel?  Dash does this with logic, not mathematical trickery.  Who can know if there is a key to unravel a "one way encryption"?  This part I may be ignorant on, but as I can't understand it, I don't trust it.  They already had their system cracked a couple of years ago, with all previous transactions exposed, how do we know that won't happen again?  Dash uses pure logic and statistics.  With that, you can keep a transparent blockchain that can be audited to make sure it is functioning properly, that no extra coins were somehow inserted that weren't part of the rewards produced, etc...  It also allows for functions where a transparent blockchain is desirable, such as charities that want to show how their funds are spent, or the Core team, who do not mix their funds, and clearly show how they are spending funds so we can see if they are trustworthy or not. 

And without the transparent blockchain, without this system of Masternodes, without the budget system, there could be no Evolution.  Evolution will be a completely decentralized yet easy to use system, like logging into your bank account, moving funds to different "accounts" and making payments as easily as Paypal.  ALL DECENTRALIZED!!!  No "3rd party service" which is what web wallets are, BTW, so know your funds are as at risk there as they are in an exchange.

Anyway, I hope this helps, if you still don't see the value, please stop shilling Monero here, you won't get anywhere with it with this audience.



I have to investigate this, I'll come back to your post.


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sidhujag
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September 24, 2017, 10:50:05 PM

Also the InstantSend vulnerability was described in more detail at the Dash Conference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ExmIqRqOk
(see the 40 minutes marker)

Basicly it has to do with how InstantSend can revert back to previous blocks (even after it got confirmed through proof of work).
A masternode owner with six masternodes could take advantage of that by calculating high scores for their own masternodes
by making a lot of InstantSend transactions offline.

Currently the fix to that vulnerability is :

* making it impossible for Instantsend to revert back to older blocks
* the calculatescore now includes a need for 15 confirmations, before it can calculate the score. This means a pack of 6 masternodes can not calculate/influence their score
   offline anymore.  

InstantSend is currently disabled through a spork and will be fixed in Dash update 12.2

Note 1 : as the fix is still work in progress, the code could still be subject to changes.
Note 2 : above mentioned InstandSend vulnerability and the planned fix is what i summarized from the presentation, it could be subject to misinterpretation from my side.
How can you use the blockhash for quorum when you do not know masternode lists on a per block basis.. you only have the latest? Imagine i had to resync.. how will quorums be validated in the past when the past mn list is not available?

I'm assuming there is a mn list that gets synced during startup of your wallet. In case of a sync from scratch where the mn list does not exist, it will be newly created and then synced.
How the blockhash for quorum interacts exactly with that masternode list, so that it can obtain all its history .. i dont know.
Hopefully someone in here can answer that for you. You can also create a thread on the dashtalk forum, frankly its a much better forum to get answers to technical questions like these
as the core-team hangs out there much more.

 
Yea i know it forces sync of latest list but how say it ensures certain masternodes were selectes at a set.block thru a random selection is still not clear. I think since its p2p by definition it cannot form consensus and is tradeoff of network storage requirements vs security.

Ahh so looks like its a "soft consensus" so its vulnerable to replay attacks and the network just assumes noone will change the payout and quorum structures manually on their nodes because network wont know the difference if you did.

https://hackernoon.com/hong-kong-research-and-planning-4206e065aa9c

He seems to realize the problem and is doing it via a hard consensus so not p2p based list anymore in evolution im guessing. I will make a post on dashtalk i guess to learn more.

It's deterministic based on mined block hash so... (experts correct me if I'm wrong please)
Its not historically deterministic 100% it cannot be because theres only 1 list and quorums cannot be reproduced in the past. This means there is no way to verify that previous quorums were correct only that the current ones are correct. Previous ones it seems are just taken as is without revalidating.
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September 25, 2017, 12:52:16 AM

Also the InstantSend vulnerability was described in more detail at the Dash Conference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ExmIqRqOk
(see the 40 minutes marker)

Basicly it has to do with how InstantSend can revert back to previous blocks (even after it got confirmed through proof of work).
A masternode owner with six masternodes could take advantage of that by calculating high scores for their own masternodes
by making a lot of InstantSend transactions offline.

Currently the fix to that vulnerability is :

* making it impossible for Instantsend to revert back to older blocks
* the calculatescore now includes a need for 15 confirmations, before it can calculate the score. This means a pack of 6 masternodes can not calculate/influence their score
   offline anymore.  

InstantSend is currently disabled through a spork and will be fixed in Dash update 12.2

Note 1 : as the fix is still work in progress, the code could still be subject to changes.
Note 2 : above mentioned InstandSend vulnerability and the planned fix is what i summarized from the presentation, it could be subject to misinterpretation from my side.

On Aug 30, we were told the InstantSend fix was "already completed & QA’d."

But today's speech confirmed that was a lie.

In truth, the InstantSend fix is still under heavy development and intensive testing.

How embarrassing for Dash to lose InstandSend just as Litecoin/Bitcoin/Decred accomplish instant on-chain atomic transactions and prepare for Lightning.

How utterly humiliating for Dash to lose almost all its debit card support while Litecoin hooks up with Revolut (https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/907437039221534720).

tl;dr Dcash is failing while Decred, Litecoin, and Bitcoin are scaling


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September 25, 2017, 08:20:57 AM

My wallet and explorer show different balances:
https://explorer.dash.org/address/XjjgWrGYeXmphT1tiT4BVXegCid9MAYKf6
And there is 12.25 in my wallet (dashcore-0.12.1.5-win64).

Also there are strange transactions of > -2 DASH in explorer. But I only did many small transactions of 0.1 - 0.25 in that days...

WTF?

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September 25, 2017, 08:50:47 AM

and prepare for Lightning.
You mean the lightning network that will cause offchain centralization ?  Roll Eyes
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September 25, 2017, 10:21:32 AM

Hi
I sold some Dash at 280
I will try to buy again as it seems very solid
even why bitcoin went quite some down, dash did not go that much down
I am also liking much InstantSend which will be implemented in most applications if I understand well.
And the community is great. Thanks for all, friends.
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September 25, 2017, 11:58:53 AM

Did you guys see that reddit topic about dash and the instamine? They are transparent about it and all, but somebody out there own a lot of dash, a large percentage of dash
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September 25, 2017, 12:58:22 PM
Last edit: September 25, 2017, 01:39:28 PM by afbitcoins

blah blah blah

I might have to give you that one Icey! The Instand Send fix was reported to be completed. It was news to me too that it now isn't. (Although qwizzie did say the news about instant send could be misinterpreted from his side in the post you quoted).

If you know anything about Dash you would know it is aiming for on chain scaling not off-chain. Bitcoin cash stripped out the segwit code for good reason. Dash (and Bitcoin Cash for that matter) aim to be used as a true digital cash not as a settlement layer for offchain transactions via Lightning Network.
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September 25, 2017, 01:51:01 PM
Last edit: September 25, 2017, 02:27:47 PM by toknormal


I might have to give you that one Icey! The Instand Send fix was reported to be completed. It was news to me too that it now isn't.

Nice ! I wish you a successful recovery from the ensuing "embarrassment"/"humiliation".

Meanwhile, I trust your "adversary" is suitably entertained having recruited you and Diego24 to his clown kingdom Wink

(See your subject banner)
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September 25, 2017, 02:41:03 PM


I might have to give you that one Icey! The Instand Send fix was reported to be completed. It was news to me too that it now isn't.

Nice ! I wish you a successful recovery from the ensuing "embarrassment"/"humiliation".

Meanwhile, I trust your "adversary" is suitably entertained having recruited you and Diego24 to his clown kingdom Wink

(See your subject banner)


What the !!!?

omg My subject banner whats happened? Have I gone full moneron?
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September 25, 2017, 02:43:17 PM

What I ment to say with regards to the fix of InstantSend is that update 12.2 is still work in progress and that the code that handles this specific fix is therefore in theory still subject to changes. Personally I think they did already fixed it in 12.2


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September 25, 2017, 02:48:11 PM

What I ment to say with regards to the fix of InstantSend is that update 12.2 is still work in progress and that the code that handles this specific fix is therefore in theory still subject to changes. Personally I think they did already fixed it in 12.2



Ah, in that case I don't give Icey that one.

 Grin

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September 25, 2017, 03:02:37 PM


I might have to give you that one Icey! The Instand Send fix was reported to be completed. It was news to me too that it now isn't.

Nice ! I wish you a successful recovery from the ensuing "embarrassment"/"humiliation".

Meanwhile, I trust your "adversary" is suitably entertained having recruited you and Diego24 to his clown kingdom Wink

(See your subject banner)


What the !!!?

omg My subject banner whats happened? Have I gone full moneron?
Ignore the guy. He is a full retard. He and Icebreaker are only able to speak shit and crap because they lick each others asshole every day. It is funny how people that have a coin that allowed to create coins out of nothing dare to talk about humiliation LOL. Real humiliation belongs to their mothers for having suffered 9 months to deliver such 2 pieces of shit.
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September 25, 2017, 04:18:14 PM

What I ment to say with regards to the fix of InstantSend is that update 12.2 is still work in progress and that the code that handles this specific fix is therefore in theory still subject to changes. Personally I think they did already fixed it in 12.2



Ah, in that case I don't give Icey that one.

 Grin



Poor Icey, he will be sooo disappointed  Roll Eyes

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September 25, 2017, 05:17:42 PM






Careful, Dash Is Catching Fire

If you’re absolutely new to cryptocurrency, you may not have heard much about Dash. Even if you’ve been a seasoned fan for many years and know all the top coins generally, chances are you’ve overlooked Dash as more of a historical item, the first great coin to give privacy a go, now just another Bitcoin wannabe in a field increasingly crowded by projects attempting to surge ahead with some untapped innovation or unique feature. If either is the case for you, let me be the first to tell you that Dash is about to catch fire in a truly unprecedented way. If you haven’t been watching closely before, start watching now: here’s why Dash is going to be front and center in the coming months and years.

https://www.dashforcenews.com/careful-dash-catching-fire/

DASH = Digital Cash         FAQ          DASHTALK        DashNews
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