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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9722291 times)
karoke
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July 09, 2020, 03:25:19 PM


And always remember the main point for me (economics aside): We don't need the 45% PoW force anymore. DASH as a project don't need to waste the energy for it. And that's something important for me, and I'm sure for more people out there.


Not wasting energy is also very important for me. But I also like PoW for 'philosophical' and monetary reasons related to competitive mining and scarcity giving value to a blockchain. That is what currently motivates me to study some interesting solutions that keep harnessing PoW while not wasting energy.

The PoW is still necessary in Dash because it provides an entropy pool for the randomness used by Chainlocks (for random selection of LLMQ, masternodes, etc).
It is also a fall-back method when for some reason (very improbable but it can happen) Chainlocks fail to lock the block.

Are there other reasons for PoW now that we have Chainlocks? Where can I find more information that would allow me to estimate how much entropy is needed?

If someone knowledgeable would be so kind to point me in the right direction I would be grateful.

Have you read this thread ? https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/source-of-entropy.49136/
I am not sure it gives you a clear answer, but it is the thread that discusses entropy specifically and explains why ChainLocks could fail (due to BLS signatures still having the possibility to fail).

Perfect. Thanks. Will take a look.
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July 09, 2020, 05:40:51 PM

Making Dash Nation on Discord Great Again

Big changes are about to happen on Dash Nation on Discord. Dash-making opportunities if you're personable, engaging and passionate about digital currency. Find out how to make some money just for being social and join the conversation on Dash Nation on Discord.



https://www.dashnation.com/initiatives/making-dash-nation-on-discord-great-again

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July 09, 2020, 06:38:09 PM

Thank you, it seems a done deal then with just the margin of votes to be decided even though the outcome is clear.

At the end of the whole voting process I hope there will be a mechanism in place to build bridges between disgruntled miners and investors on one side and masternode operators on the other because having unity and general consensus would make for a far better environment when trying to push the DASH ethos and agenda forward.

Thank you for the link, I will keep an eye on it.


Thank you qwizzie  Wink

Going back to DASH, what do you think the outcome of the voting will be and when will they announce it?

Hell no Smiley

No apology needed.

Voting deadline is in 17 days. I suspect it will pass.
It is currently at 185 Yes votes and 13 No votes.

Link : https://app.dashnexus.org/proposals/leaderboard

Voting threshold for this decision proposal to pass is at 10%. With our current number of masternodes, 492 Yes minus No votes are needed (they call that net “Yes” votes)

Quote
A vote of 10% net “Yes” votes shall have the effect of instructing DCG to incorporate the above block reward allocations into the Dash Core software and to provide a mechanism
for the consensus rule change to activate on the network subject to safe thresholds of network adoption. Any changes are dependent on adequate support / implementation from the
decentralized network to ensure the adoption of the consensus changes, which is outside the direct control of DCG.

A higher % of approval then that 10%, will provide a signal that this proposal is well supported.
It will be interesting to see how high that percentage gets.

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Dahaa
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July 09, 2020, 07:00:52 PM

Congratulations on the 25th place. Next will be a dog coin Cheesy
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July 09, 2020, 07:06:31 PM


Congratulations on the 25th place. Next will be a dog coin Cheesy

We don't care about what the market votes for around here.

It's what the masternodes vote for that matters.

(Nor do we want any of the market's expensive hashrate anymore. We gox chanelox. Cheap as chips Wink )
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July 09, 2020, 07:14:00 PM


Congratulations on the 25th place. Next will be a dog coin Cheesy

We don't care about what the market votes for around here.

It's what the masternodes vote for that matters.

well then take yourself off the exchanges and sit with your masternodes
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July 09, 2020, 11:03:35 PM


But shouldn't in theory reducing the mining reward reduce the aggregate mining cost passed on to the market?

What I assumed was:

mining rewards reduced => some miners shut down (buy masternodes instead or exit altogether) => more rewards for other miners, aggregate mining cost reduced

The equilibrium would be restored with less hashrate, but there is plenty of it to secure the network left.


What you are saying is that in practice the miners don't shut down, but continue to mine at a reduced profit? So aggregate mining cost stays the same, but there are more masternode rewards to be sold.
That would explain it. What is the evidence for it? Is there a miner here that can confirm or add some info?

I understand the second part now, thank you.


Look this way: imagine that Satoshi created Bitcoin as POS.
Ha, got it?
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July 10, 2020, 01:25:22 AM

Introducing the CoinDesk 20: The Assets That Matter Most in Crypto (incl Dash)

https://www.coindesk.com/introducing-the-coindesk-20?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&clid=00Q1I00000KKOFxUAP

qwizzie
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July 10, 2020, 06:29:26 AM
Last edit: July 10, 2020, 07:41:02 AM by qwizzie

Introducing the CoinDesk 20: The Assets That Matter Most in Crypto (incl Dash)

https://www.coindesk.com/introducing-the-coindesk-20?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&clid=00Q1I00000KKOFxUAP

Top Crypto Assets Quarterly Returns 2020 Q2



Can someone please explain to me how these Top Crypto Assets Quarterly Returns 2020 Q2 from Coindesk are calculated, because they make no sense to me.
I am not finding anything useful at the source either (https://nomics.com/).



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karoke
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July 10, 2020, 06:31:23 AM


But shouldn't in theory reducing the mining reward reduce the aggregate mining cost passed on to the market?

What I assumed was:

mining rewards reduced => some miners shut down (buy masternodes instead or exit altogether) => more rewards for other miners, aggregate mining cost reduced

The equilibrium would be restored with less hashrate, but there is plenty of it to secure the network left.


What you are saying is that in practice the miners don't shut down, but continue to mine at a reduced profit? So aggregate mining cost stays the same, but there are more masternode rewards to be sold.
That would explain it. What is the evidence for it? Is there a miner here that can confirm or add some info?

I understand the second part now, thank you.


Look this way: imagine that Satoshi created Bitcoin as POS.
Ha, got it?

But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

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July 10, 2020, 08:29:36 AM

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.


But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

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qwizzie
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July 10, 2020, 08:52:28 AM

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.


But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

I got the feeling that karoke interest in this topic had to do with a desire to create a new project for himself.
And not to specifically join this project. Maybe i got the wrong impression.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
karoke
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July 10, 2020, 10:28:59 AM

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.


But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

I got the feeling that karoke interest in this topic had to do with a desire to create a new project for himself.
And not to specifically join this project. Maybe i got the wrong impression.

No, I am already with Dash.

ATM I just have a vision for a solution and kind of concrete intuition on how it could be implemented with Dash and using Dash Platform. The project is half baked and might solve to nothing. Way too early to share any details here. I have a lot of studying and thinking to do to fit the pieces together and that is the main motive of my engagement here (to study and understand).

My other motive is trying to understand both sides related to the proposal of changing the block reward distribution. I do not attribute too much importance to this initiative (IMO the time should have been spent on development of Dash Platform) because my interests are very long term. I consider this period of low blockchain activity a temporary phase. If Dash survives in the next 5 years (and from what I see it is very well positioned for that), the activity on the blockchain will thrive and the problem will be solved by itself. The service provided by masternodes will grow significantly and so will the costs leading to equilibrium between masternodes' and miners' cost margins (or the market will take care of that anyway :-( as I have been shown).

For that matter if anything comes out of my vision above (a better use of PoW energy), the implementation as I envision it now would surely create a lot of additional activity on Dash blockchain.
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July 10, 2020, 10:49:05 AM

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.


But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

I got the feeling that karoke interest in this topic had to do with a desire to create a new project for himself.
And not to specifically join this project. Maybe i got the wrong impression.

No, I am already with Dash.

ATM I just have a vision for a solution and kind of concrete intuition on how it could be implemented with Dash and using Dash Platform. The project is half baked and might solve to nothing. Way too early to share any details here. I have a lot of studying and thinking to do to fit the pieces together and that is the main motive of my engagement here (to study and understand).

My other motive is trying to understand both sides related to the proposal of changing the block reward distribution. I do not attribute too much importance to this initiative (IMO the time should have been spent on development of Dash Platform) because my interests are very long term. I consider this period of low blockchain activity a temporary phase. If Dash survives in the next 5 years (and from what I see it is very well positioned for that), the activity on the blockchain will thrive and the problem will be solved by itself. The service provided by masternodes will grow significantly and so will the costs leading to equilibrium between masternodes' and miners' cost margins (or the market will take care of that anyway :-( as I have been shown).

For that matter if anything comes out of my vision above (a better use of PoW energy), the implementation as I envision it now would surely create a lot of additional activity on Dash blockchain.

Thank you for the detailed response. Looking forward to hearing your vision for a solution and its implementation, when you have it finished. And i agree with your thoughts on this being a temporary phase,
and i also think Dash is well-suited for the future. Good to see someone thinking long term like that.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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July 10, 2020, 10:52:26 AM
Last edit: July 10, 2020, 11:22:48 AM by qwizzie



Source : tradingview
Cryptocurrencies : my personal selection (excluding stablecoins and most exchange tokens)

And there goes Dogecoin, back into the firm hands of Mrs Gravity. Well, it was a good joke (lets all get rich) from teen TikTok traders.
Link : https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2020/07/09/lets-all-get-rich-teen-tiktok-traders-want-to-send-joke-bitcoin-rival-dogecoin-to-the-moon/#6a10a8336b7a

Quote
"Let’s all get rich," TikTok user James Galante told his relatively small number of 5,700 followers in a video that's now been viewed over 900,000 times. Galante's previous video,
also promoting dogecoin, has been watched around 250,000 times.

I do wonder how many of them actually got rich  Undecided
For those interested in watching Dogecoin price with live data : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/HITBTC:DOGE-BTC?period=4h

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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July 10, 2020, 02:05:56 PM

Exploring the Dash Platform Ecosystem (w/ Early dApp Demo)

Dash has a strong claim to becoming digital cash for the world. It's smooth, secure, instant transactions are used all over the world right now. The only thing stopping Dash from becoming a complete financial package is ease of use. To that end, a thriving ecosystem around Dash's next level tech has been created. In this episode of CATV, Christopher details the Dash Platform ecosystem and takes an early dApp for a spin.



Thanks for watching!

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July 10, 2020, 02:37:02 PM

Would that be enough to push through any form of changes though? There are so many people with so many ideas for innovations but how many developers (or in this case Dash Core) would even pay attention to any proposals that are put forward? It takes a big shift of consensus to garner momentum and I just cannot see the development team implementing ideas on the basis they are simply put forward - there needs to be more than that.

Thank you for the detailed response. Looking forward to hearing your vision for a solution and its implementation, when you have it finished. And i agree with your thoughts on this being a temporary phase,
and i also think Dash is well-suited for the future. Good to see someone thinking long term like that.

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qwizzie
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July 10, 2020, 03:10:53 PM
Last edit: July 10, 2020, 03:29:47 PM by qwizzie

Actually pushing through change will be difficult and time consuming, just look at how long these Dash Economics discussions took. Counting from the Dash Open House late last year to the actual voting on the proposed
solution now. But maybe he can bring some fresh ideas in, that nobody thought about.. who knows. It can't hurt to discuss. And since he is in it for the long run, i assume he is also thinking of a long term solution.
Because this blockreward allocation change that takes place over the next 4 1/2 years, pretty much falls under the 'quick win' solutions --> https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/temporary-measures-quick-wins.49138/  


Would that be enough to push through any form of changes though? There are so many people with so many ideas for innovations but how many developers (or in this case Dash Core) would even pay attention to any proposals that are put forward? It takes a big shift of consensus to garner momentum and I just cannot see the development team implementing ideas on the basis they are simply put forward - there needs to be more than that.

Thank you for the detailed response. Looking forward to hearing your vision for a solution and its implementation, when you have it finished. And i agree with your thoughts on this being a temporary phase,
and i also think Dash is well-suited for the future. Good to see someone thinking long term like that.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
Pang.
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July 10, 2020, 04:07:17 PM

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.


But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.


People always talk about PoW being a big problem for the environment.

This is enormous stupidity, since PoW is only a process to solve some operations, and that does not pollute.

What really pollutes is generating polluting energy with fossil fuels, with nuclear energy that generates hazardous waste ... but for example using a solar farm, or a hydroelectric, or wind energy, is not a problem, since who uses the energy pay.

And it does not matter if it is used to extract BTC, Dash, light a cabbage garden, play GTA, or get into a tanning booth.

Saying that PoW is harmful to nature is like saying that bullets are bad ...

Mining in Dash has been providing security to the network for a long time, and it has not stopped growing.

On the other hand, the master nodes have shown great inconsistencies in their decisions:

The great american pilgrimage

Dash aeroesports

ALT36

...

Just by investing those funds in gold through the DIF, Dash would now be worth twice as much.


PoW has never been wrong, and the master nodes evidently have.

I remember that time is running out, we had the opportunity to put Dash on Olympus when he was trading at more than $ 500.

Now Dash is in danger of going into a death spiral for bad decisions.

I say it and I repeat it ... quality marketing using a renowned company, and chosen by the nodes from a list of several companies.

Do not let DCG choose the company, as we have already seen what has happened in the past with these funds.

a greeting
toknormal
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July 10, 2020, 05:35:10 PM


Now Dash is in danger of going into a death spiral for bad decisions.

FIFY.

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