[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Dahaa]

Congratulations on the 25th place. Next will be a dog coin

We don't care about what the market votes for around here.

It's what the masternodes vote for that matters.

well then take yourself off the exchanges and sit with your masternodes

[AzzAz]

But shouldn't in theory reducing the mining reward reduce the aggregate mining cost passed on to the market?

What I assumed was:

mining rewards reduced => some miners shut down (buy masternodes instead or exit altogether) => more rewards for other miners, aggregate mining cost reduced

The equilibrium would be restored with less hashrate, but there is plenty of it to secure the network left.


What you are saying is that in practice the miners don't shut down, but continue to mine at a reduced profit? So aggregate mining cost stays the same, but there are more masternode rewards to be sold.
That would explain it. What is the evidence for it? Is there a miner here that can confirm or add some info?

I understand the second part now, thank you.

Look this way: imagine that Satoshi created Bitcoin as POS.
Ha, got it?

[Tungi17]

Introducing the CoinDesk 20: The Assets That Matter Most in Crypto (incl Dash)

https://www.coindesk.com/introducing-the-coindesk-20?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&clid=00Q1I00000KKOFxUAP

[qwizzie]

Introducing the CoinDesk 20: The Assets That Matter Most in Crypto (incl Dash)

https://www.coindesk.com/introducing-the-coindesk-20?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&clid=00Q1I00000KKOFxUAP

Top Crypto Assets Quarterly Returns 2020 Q2



Can someone please explain to me how these Top Crypto Assets Quarterly Returns 2020 Q2 from Coindesk are calculated, because they make no sense to me.
I am not finding anything useful at the source either (https://nomics.com/).

[karoke]

But shouldn't in theory reducing the mining reward reduce the aggregate mining cost passed on to the market?

What I assumed was:

mining rewards reduced => some miners shut down (buy masternodes instead or exit altogether) => more rewards for other miners, aggregate mining cost reduced

The equilibrium would be restored with less hashrate, but there is plenty of it to secure the network left.


What you are saying is that in practice the miners don't shut down, but continue to mine at a reduced profit? So aggregate mining cost stays the same, but there are more masternode rewards to be sold.
That would explain it. What is the evidence for it? Is there a miner here that can confirm or add some info?

I understand the second part now, thank you.

Look this way: imagine that Satoshi created Bitcoin as POS.
Ha, got it?

But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

[JollyGood]

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.

But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

[qwizzie]

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.

But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

I got the feeling that karoke interest in this topic had to do with a desire to create a new project for himself.
And not to specifically join this project. Maybe i got the wrong impression.

[karoke]

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.

But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

I got the feeling that karoke interest in this topic had to do with a desire to create a new project for himself.
And not to specifically join this project. Maybe i got the wrong impression.

No, I am already with Dash.

ATM I just have a vision for a solution and kind of concrete intuition on how it could be implemented with Dash and using Dash Platform. The project is half baked and might solve to nothing. Way too early to share any details here. I have a lot of studying and thinking to do to fit the pieces together and that is the main motive of my engagement here (to study and understand).

My other motive is trying to understand both sides related to the proposal of changing the block reward distribution. I do not attribute too much importance to this initiative (IMO the time should have been spent on development of Dash Platform) because my interests are very long term. I consider this period of low blockchain activity a temporary phase. If Dash survives in the next 5 years (and from what I see it is very well positioned for that), the activity on the blockchain will thrive and the problem will be solved by itself. The service provided by masternodes will grow significantly and so will the costs leading to equilibrium between masternodes' and miners' cost margins (or the market will take care of that anyway :-( as I have been shown).

For that matter if anything comes out of my vision above (a better use of PoW energy), the implementation as I envision it now would surely create a lot of additional activity on Dash blockchain.

[qwizzie]

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.

But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

I got the feeling that karoke interest in this topic had to do with a desire to create a new project for himself.
And not to specifically join this project. Maybe i got the wrong impression.

No, I am already with Dash.

ATM I just have a vision for a solution and kind of concrete intuition on how it could be implemented with Dash and using Dash Platform. The project is half baked and might solve to nothing. Way too early to share any details here. I have a lot of studying and thinking to do to fit the pieces together and that is the main motive of my engagement here (to study and understand).

My other motive is trying to understand both sides related to the proposal of changing the block reward distribution. I do not attribute too much importance to this initiative (IMO the time should have been spent on development of Dash Platform) because my interests are very long term. I consider this period of low blockchain activity a temporary phase. If Dash survives in the next 5 years (and from what I see it is very well positioned for that), the activity on the blockchain will thrive and the problem will be solved by itself. The service provided by masternodes will grow significantly and so will the costs leading to equilibrium between masternodes' and miners' cost margins (or the market will take care of that anyway :-( as I have been shown).

For that matter if anything comes out of my vision above (a better use of PoW energy), the implementation as I envision it now would surely create a lot of additional activity on Dash blockchain.

Thank you for the detailed response. Looking forward to hearing your vision for a solution and its implementation, when you have it finished. And i agree with your thoughts on this being a temporary phase,
and i also think Dash is well-suited for the future. Good to see someone thinking long term like that.

[qwizzie]

Source : tradingview
Cryptocurrencies : my personal selection (excluding stablecoins and most exchange tokens)

And there goes Dogecoin, back into the firm hands of Mrs Gravity. Well, it was a good joke (lets all get rich) from teen TikTok traders.
Link : https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2020/07/09/lets-all-get-rich-teen-tiktok-traders-want-to-send-joke-bitcoin-rival-dogecoin-to-the-moon/#6a10a8336b7a

"Let’s all get rich," TikTok user James Galante told his relatively small number of 5,700 followers in a video that's now been viewed over 900,000 times. Galante's previous video,
also promoting dogecoin, has been watched around 250,000 times.

I do wonder how many of them actually got rich  
For those interested in watching Dogecoin price with live data : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/HITBTC:DOGE-BTC?period=4h

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Exploring the Dash Platform Ecosystem (w/ Early dApp Demo)

Dash has a strong claim to becoming digital cash for the world. It's smooth, secure, instant transactions are used all over the world right now. The only thing stopping Dash from becoming a complete financial package is ease of use. To that end, a thriving ecosystem around Dash's next level tech has been created. In this episode of CATV, Christopher details the Dash Platform ecosystem and takes an early dApp for a spin.



Thanks for watching!

[JollyGood]

Would that be enough to push through any form of changes though? There are so many people with so many ideas for innovations but how many developers (or in this case Dash Core) would even pay attention to any proposals that are put forward? It takes a big shift of consensus to garner momentum and I just cannot see the development team implementing ideas on the basis they are simply put forward - there needs to be more than that.

Thank you for the detailed response. Looking forward to hearing your vision for a solution and its implementation, when you have it finished. And i agree with your thoughts on this being a temporary phase,
and i also think Dash is well-suited for the future. Good to see someone thinking long term like that.

[qwizzie]

Actually pushing through change will be difficult and time consuming, just look at how long these Dash Economics discussions took. Counting from the Dash Open House late last year to the actual voting on the proposed
solution now. But maybe he can bring some fresh ideas in, that nobody thought about.. who knows. It can't hurt to discuss. And since he is in it for the long run, i assume he is also thinking of a long term solution.
Because this blockreward allocation change that takes place over the next 4 1/2 years, pretty much falls under the 'quick win' solutions --> https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/temporary-measures-quick-wins.49138/  

Would that be enough to push through any form of changes though? There are so many people with so many ideas for innovations but how many developers (or in this case Dash Core) would even pay attention to any proposals that are put forward? It takes a big shift of consensus to garner momentum and I just cannot see the development team implementing ideas on the basis they are simply put forward - there needs to be more than that.

Thank you for the detailed response. Looking forward to hearing your vision for a solution and its implementation, when you have it finished. And i agree with your thoughts on this being a temporary phase,
and i also think Dash is well-suited for the future. Good to see someone thinking long term like that.

[Pang.]

Life is not that simple, we do not always get what we want. Think of it as a simple business transaction or investment. If you are being specific about energy consumption and environmental impact of mining then there are many so-called eco-friendly coins out there, you should consider joining their project if it makes you feel you will meet your goals.

But I want PoW.
It's just that I don't like the impact on the environment.

All that energy has it's purpose, so what I am looking for is a better usage of that energy. Without compromising the competitive mining.

And now, from what I've learned, I have some thinking to do on how the aggregate mining cost fits the equation. We also want to reduce that.

People always talk about PoW being a big problem for the environment.

This is enormous stupidity, since PoW is only a process to solve some operations, and that does not pollute.

What really pollutes is generating polluting energy with fossil fuels, with nuclear energy that generates hazardous waste ... but for example using a solar farm, or a hydroelectric, or wind energy, is not a problem, since who uses the energy pay.

And it does not matter if it is used to extract BTC, Dash, light a cabbage garden, play GTA, or get into a tanning booth.

Saying that PoW is harmful to nature is like saying that bullets are bad ...

Mining in Dash has been providing security to the network for a long time, and it has not stopped growing.

On the other hand, the master nodes have shown great inconsistencies in their decisions:

The great american pilgrimage

Dash aeroesports

ALT36

...

Just by investing those funds in gold through the DIF, Dash would now be worth twice as much.


PoW has never been wrong, and the master nodes evidently have.

I remember that time is running out, we had the opportunity to put Dash on Olympus when he was trading at more than $ 500.

Now Dash is in danger of going into a death spiral for bad decisions.

I say it and I repeat it ... quality marketing using a renowned company, and chosen by the nodes from a list of several companies.

Do not let DCG choose the company, as we have already seen what has happened in the past with these funds.

a greeting

[toknormal]

Now Dash is in danger of going into a death spiral for bad decisions.

FIFY.

[JollyGood]

On the surface it does seem a pointless idea that anybody could compile a wish-list and send it off to the core development team and they would contemplate making those changes since the numbers of people sending recommendations or suggestions would be very high. Keeping that aside sometimes it is the little things and efforts that get noticed - who knows what the future will hold and which direction Dash will head towards in a few years from now.

Thank you for the link to the thread in the Dash forum.

Actually pushing through change will be difficult and time consuming, just look at how long these Dash Economics discussions took. Counting from the Dash Open House late last year to the actual voting on the proposed
solution now. But maybe he can bring some fresh ideas in, that nobody thought about.. who knows. It can't hurt to discuss. And since he is in it for the long run, i assume he is also thinking of a long term solution.
Because this blockreward allocation change that takes place over the next 4 1/2 years, pretty much falls under the 'quick win' solutions --> https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/temporary-measures-quick-wins.49138/  

Would that be enough to push through any form of changes though? There are so many people with so many ideas for innovations but how many developers (or in this case Dash Core) would even pay attention to any proposals that are put forward? It takes a big shift of consensus to garner momentum and I just cannot see the development team implementing ideas on the basis they are simply put forward - there needs to be more than that.

Thank you for the detailed response. Looking forward to hearing your vision for a solution and its implementation, when you have it finished. And i agree with your thoughts on this being a temporary phase,
and i also think Dash is well-suited for the future. Good to see someone thinking long term like that.

[jdmcg]

Now Dash is in danger of going into a death spiral for bad decisions.

FIFY.

Seems overly dramatic...

Seems to me that since Dash had a stronger increase during the last bull market than the other coins it's now experiencing a stronger correction during this bear market. It also seems to me that this bear market is about over...

Let's see how it behaves now in the coming 3 months to year. I expect a stronger recovery compared to other coins (Jan 2020 we saw a small glimpse).

Anyways, assuming my math is right, this is what the reallocation proposal changes...

Date	Block Reward	Proposal share	Proposal reward	Current reward	7.14% reduction
		Miners/Masternode	Miners/Masternode	Miners/Masternode
Jul-10-2020	2.88	50.0%/50.0%	1.44/1.44	1.44/1.44
Sep-28-2020	2.88	48.7%/51.3%	1.40/1.48	1.44/1.44
Dec-28-2020	2.88	47.4%/52.6%	1.36/1.52	1.44/1.44
Mar-29-2021	2.88	46.7%/53.3%	1.34/1.54	1.44/1.44
May-15-2021	2.67	46.7%/53.3%	1.24/1.43	1.33/1.33	yes
Jun-28-2021	2.67	46.0%/54.0%	1.23/1.44	1.33/1.33
Sep-27-2021	2.67	45.4%/54.6%	1.21/1.46	1.33/1.33
Dec-27-2021	2.67	44.8%/55.2%	1.20/1.47	1.33/1.33
Mar-28-2022	2.67	44.3%/55.7%	1.18/1.49	1.33/1.33
Jun-02-2022	2.48	44.3%/55.7%	1.10/1.38	1.24/1.24	yes
Jun-27-2022	2.48	43.8%/56.2%	1.09/1.39	1.24/1.24
Sep-25-2022	2.48	43.3%/56.7%	1.07/1.41	1.24/1.24
Jun-20-2023	2.30	43.3%/56.7%	1.00/1.30	1.15/1.15	yes

I would think the change to miner rewards is negligible as a pool is likely to find the block anyway and split the reward accordingly. The change for masternodes keeps the reward the same for the next 3 years. Presumably with the release of Dash Platform, masternode costs will increase.

I can't see passing this proposal dooming Dash in any event. I would think it should slightly pressure miners to sell higher and keep masternodes invested.

I would think if toknormal's theory is correct, then Dash is already doomed, regardless of whether this proposal passes or not.

I don't see it though, Dash's future looks bright. It consistently brings new innovation to the space and continually increases in important metrics (transaction counts/exchanges/etc)

[toknormal]

Seems to me that since Dash had a stronger increase during the last bull market than the other coins it's now experiencing a stronger correction during this bear market.

Couldn't you apply that logic to just about any top 20 coin from December 2017 ?

If your protocol gives half the supply away for free while competing ones restrict theirs to competitive mining, expect the market to value it accordingly.

[jdmcg]

Seems to me that since Dash had a stronger increase during the last bull market than the other coins it's now experiencing a stronger correction during this bear market.

Couldn't you apply that logic to just about any top 20 coin from December 2017 ?

If your protocol gives half the supply away for free while competing ones restrict theirs to competitive mining, expect the market to value it accordingly.

No, not all of them. Maybe XRP.

Ok, so would you agree then that the proposal neither makes things better or worse?

What would your proposal look like?

Also you keep saying half the supply is given away for free without mentioning that masternodes need some kind of incentive to exist. How is Dash not a Bitcoin clone without masternodes?

[toknormal]

What would your proposal look like?

It would look as described in the closing remarks of this post.

Justified by the observations made in this one.

Also you keep saying half the supply is given away for free without mentioning that masternodes need some kind of incentive to exist. How is Dash not a Bitcoin clone without masternodes?

The DCG proposal isn't concerned with the existence or non-existence of masternodes, it's concerned with changing the reward ratio away from miners and towards masternodes. I would not get rid of masternodes and have never argued for that. I've only argued that if the masternode reward goes beyond a measurable added value to the coin from a new invstor's perspective, then capital will move away from Dash to its fully-mined competitors.

I've also argued that for Dash to be to be investible, the masternode operating margin and mining operating margins need to be congruent, otherwise the market will simply revalue the coin until they are. This is what's been happening over the last few years when you compare Dash's relative value with its (former) competitors.

I say "former" because they no longer need to regard Dash as a competitor. They've remained in the top 20 by marketcap while we have not so it's us that have the re-examining to do, not them. We've had a 40%+ deficit on mining reward during that time. Increasing it to a 50% deficit as a solution doesn't exactly strike me as a "re-examination" of priorities and I don't think the wider market will see it as one either.