[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[jdmcg]

Ok, maybe you're looking at this the wrong way. Do you at least concede that? Are you presenting fact or theory?

Here's something to think about...

1) The block reward is not given out until a block is mined.
2) No miners, no block reward.
3) The block reward currently is roughly 2.88 DASH.
4) The miner is able to stay in business even though they only receive roughly 1.44 DASH per block

Now, if they got 100% of the reward and the hashrate/cost remained the same wouldn't there be enormous pressure for the price to be cut in half?

After all if the miner is profitable enough to stay in business by selling 1.44 DASH, they could easily sell 2.88 DASH at 50% off and still be just as well off.

So, maybe this 50/50 split we currently have puts upward pressure on the price? And maybe that more than offsets the price that masternodes sell at since they don't sell it for $0...

The mining difficulty would adjust higher, making the scarcity /store of value attribute much stronger.

Consider that in 100% proof of work coins they already have 100% of the reward. This idea is already tested and in action in real crypto market

Hmm... ok, so certainly there would be new upwards pressure to increase the hashrate because now there is extra profit to make but at the same time miners would cash in as quick as they could. And I suppose instead of the price being cut in half, it would meet somewhere in the middle, which is 25% lower than the current price.

Still sounds like a bad idea to me.

Not to mention, 0% rewards to masternodes means 0 masternodes means Dash ceases to be Dash. Remind me again why you wouldn't just switch to LTC or BCH now?

[toknormal]

...but at the same time miners would cash in as quick as they could...Still sounds like a bad idea to me.

The problem is that this argument has been lost.

You are currently watching the coin that throttles the supply to miners more than any other - by 50% compared to its competitors - sink to the bottom of the pile in valuation.

Not only that, on utility (which that 50% mining deficit is supposed to be paying for) we are now out-used by 500% by the most utility-deficient coin in the list.

The reasons are explained above - that order book dynamics have very little to do with the valuation of the chain. Coins transferred out in an order book can transfer an equivalent value back to the chain or it can be asymmetric (as in the sale of masternode rewards) where no value is delivered back to the chain.

It's the net loss or gain of aggregate capital value from the network that matters.

[qwizzie]

..and worst of all...

 • they are bad for masternodes, since they have the most to lose form capital losses being the biggest capital holders

You are a masternode operator yourself, enabling the system you so very publicly attack on this forum. I am starting to wonder if you are not simpy trying to prevent the increase of masternodes, so it does not extend the time interval (making the period between masternode payments longer).

That is the only reason why i can see you stay at a project this long (6 years), run masternodes, and still attack the very heart of this project (incentivized masternodes). It would explain why you post all this negative crap about masternodes, but stay invested in Dash.

[toknormal]

You are a masternode operator yourself, enabling the system you so very publicly attack on this forum.

I didn't "publicly attack" the system.

I argued that the reward ratio was set in the wrong direction for optimal capital valuation of the chain. I also said that masternodes would gain from this since the capital value of their holdings makes generally more difference to their asset valuation than the reward margin measured in Dash.

[qwizzie]

You are a masternode operator yourself, enabling the system you so very publicly attack on this forum.

I didn't "publicly attack" the system.

I argued that the reward ratio was set in the wrong direction for optimal capital valuation of the chain. I also said that masternodes would gain from this since the capital value of their holdings makes generally more difference to their asset valuation than the reward margin measured in Dash.

I seem to recall a certain someone wanting to fork Dash, while the blockreward reallocation discussion was still ongoing.
I call that a public attack on Dash system. I also recall some pretty strong personal opinions from that certain someone,
predicting all kinds of outragious doomsday scenerio's day in day out. I also see that as publicly attacking the system.

A system you are part of as masternode operator since pretty much the start. Something you failed to mention in all
those comments about 'free' coins and all the masternode negativity, until i confronted you with that after your 'lets fork Dash' post.

I realise that masternode holders want holiday cruises, but f*k'm.

Does that mean you will be f*k yourself, as you are a masternode holder also ?  

[toknormal]

I seeem to recall a certain someone wanting to fork Dash...I also recall some pretty strong personal opinions ..publicly attacking the system

Qwizzie, you're still living in 2014-land where marketcaps lived and died on bitcointalk hype and where an investor base was defined by tribal allegiances.

Things have moved on a bit. Markets are slightly more sophisticated and can work out what our capital flows are. If you tell them you can make a 90% margin from a finite capital asset without investing any of that profit back or generating any new economic activity, and despite that claim that your capital value will still accrue in multiples, the "negativity" you're seeing from me just now will look like worship by comparison to their reaction

2+2 has to equal 4. Not "innovation", "liveliness" or "pump-is-comingness".

[jdmcg]

Toknormal, you'd make a good politician. Ignore the question, and repeat your message at all cost.

It's hard to have a discussion where one side merely dismisses offhandedly anything and everything that goes against their position, only to repeat as "proof" the same thing over and over again.

Despite the apparent tumble in CMC rankings, DASH is still well positioned for the upcoming bull market. Be sure to take profit this time. You will be much happier.

[qwizzie]

v0.16 Migration Report — Week 3
Link : https://blog.dash.org/v0-16-migration-report-week-3-6769e32166d0

Source : https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/jgvmy6/dash_core_v016_migration_report_week_3/

[qwizzie]

Looks like we get another topic of discussion soon :

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/mno-incentives.50836/#post-223867
https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/jgvph2/mno_incentives/

This will be a discussion on what to do with the leftover dash of the Dash Treasury / Budget.


Source : https://app.dashnexus.org/proposals/dashboard

(we are focusing on the not-allocated part, in above screenshot that currently consists of 6% of the budget / 341,82 Dash)
Looks like several decision proposals are already in the making, to be introduced with the next budget cycle.

We just seem to be missing the pre-proposal discussion on several important Dash channels (DashPay Reddit, Dash.org/forum, Dash Nation Discord) from some of those
new upcoming decision proposals (Rion's decision proposal ?). Hopefully that will be fixed.

[afbitcoins]

Ok, maybe you're looking at this the wrong way. Do you at least concede that? Are you presenting fact or theory?

Here's something to think about...

1) The block reward is not given out until a block is mined.
2) No miners, no block reward.
3) The block reward currently is roughly 2.88 DASH.
4) The miner is able to stay in business even though they only receive roughly 1.44 DASH per block

Now, if they got 100% of the reward and the hashrate/cost remained the same wouldn't there be enormous pressure for the price to be cut in half?

After all if the miner is profitable enough to stay in business by selling 1.44 DASH, they could easily sell 2.88 DASH at 50% off and still be just as well off.

So, maybe this 50/50 split we currently have puts upward pressure on the price? And maybe that more than offsets the price that masternodes sell at since they don't sell it for $0...

The mining difficulty would adjust higher, making the scarcity /store of value attribute much stronger.

Consider that in 100% proof of work coins they already have 100% of the reward. This idea is already tested and in action in real crypto market

So why is it not working for Bitcoin Cash and Zcash then ? They have 100% proof of work with 100% of the reward and have the exact same negative price performance as Dash.


Dash              -95,6% Price Down from ATH
Bitcoin Cash    -93,8% Price Down from ATH
Zcash             -93,5% Price Down from ATH
  
Source : messari.io

What can we conclude from that ?

Also i don't see how higher mining difficulty increase scarcity. With Dash the difficulty gets adjusted after each block thanks to Dash Dark Gravity Wave, which means the supply generation stays the same. There is no increased scarcity or increased store of value from an increase in mining difficulty.

https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/introduction/features.html

What we can conclude is Dash is the worst of those three, also worse than litecoin down 84.57%, worse than bitcoin SV down 62.4%, worse than monero down 74.1%. we can conclude you cherry pick other worst performers as if they are the average and Dash is still worse. Bitcoin down 33.35%.

I'll help you understand scarcity. It would be higher, not because emission rate changes. Because more difficult to obtain, more expensive. Scarcity does not just mean limited quantity but also how desirable and how difficult to obtain.

With all the innovation, features, superior governance etc of Dash you'd think it would be one of the best performers not worst wouldn't you?

[naska21]

Dash is now excepted in one of the supermarket chain  in Venezuela. Even before this it was the most routine used cryptocurrency in the country.  Judging  what media says it beats even Bitcoin there. I noticed that Dash is the most widely used in countries where the economy is weak, probably because of extra pressure  being put on society by the political regime. Any way if Dash help those poor citizens  to survive then it's  mission there can be considered completed.

[thunderjet]

Ok, maybe you're looking at this the wrong way. Do you at least concede that? Are you presenting fact or theory?

Here's something to think about...

1) The block reward is not given out until a block is mined.
2) No miners, no block reward.
3) The block reward currently is roughly 2.88 DASH.
4) The miner is able to stay in business even though they only receive roughly 1.44 DASH per block

Now, if they got 100% of the reward and the hashrate/cost remained the same wouldn't there be enormous pressure for the price to be cut in half?

After all if the miner is profitable enough to stay in business by selling 1.44 DASH, they could easily sell 2.88 DASH at 50% off and still be just as well off.

So, maybe this 50/50 split we currently have puts upward pressure on the price? And maybe that more than offsets the price that masternodes sell at since they don't sell it for $0...

The mining difficulty would adjust higher, making the scarcity /store of value attribute much stronger.

Consider that in 100% proof of work coins they already have 100% of the reward. This idea is already tested and in action in real crypto market

So why is it not working for Bitcoin Cash and Zcash then ? They have 100% proof of work with 100% of the reward and have the exact same negative price performance as Dash.


Dash              -95,6% Price Down from ATH
Bitcoin Cash    -93,8% Price Down from ATH
Zcash             -93,5% Price Down from ATH
  
Source : messari.io

What can we conclude from that ?

Also i don't see how higher mining difficulty increase scarcity. With Dash the difficulty gets adjusted after each block thanks to Dash Dark Gravity Wave, which means the supply generation stays the same. There is no increased scarcity or increased store of value from an increase in mining difficulty.

https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/introduction/features.html

Wrong approach.Why comparing with the worst Beside ,comparing with BCH is completely wrong,because that coin split on two different coins and comparing price when it was one coin and now is utterly wrong.

There is a debate about masternodes exaggerate reward and its influence on DASH price.I agree that it is a main reason ,but certainly not only one.Why this economic concept is wrong I will try to explain on example:

Lets say that DASH is gold mining company which wants to collect money needed for theirs mining operations.Management decided that they will issue shares with exceptionally lucrative reward for big shareholders,with 1000 or more shares in theirs portfolio - to give them 50% of everything company mines.At first it makes a lot of fuss between speculators, price of shares goes up fast ,speculation bubble is getting bigger and bigger.Mining operation is starting and big shareholders start to receive its big, 50% reward.It works like a charm for 1-2 years,but as times comes it is obvious that 50% which left to the company is not enough to cover expenses.Speculation bubble is starting to deflate,price of shares goes lower and lower.Shareholders are getting nervous about it,while management is trying to convince them that it is just a small bump on the road to success.As money outflow dramatically outpaces inflow and situation is getting more and more worse,desperate management decides to go with even more lucrative reward for big shareholders.But that makes things even worse as shares price goes nosedive.At one moment few big shareholders are pulling the brake and liquidate theirs shares, beginning quick and vicious cycle of selling at any cost.Company went to bankruptcy,leaving shareholders with worthless shares.

Only one thing is preventing DASH price to goes much lower much faster - its empty Buy orders which cant absorb selling of coins of just one masternode owner without 50% or more slippage.It is disaster that XMR has 20x bigger Buy orders than DASH (Poloniex).There is nothing better what reflects coin true strength as it is how big is its Buy orders side.

[qwizzie]

What we can conclude is Dash is the worst of those three

Wrong approach.Why comparing with the worst

All i can conclude is that looking at Bitcoin Cash (one of our main competitors) and Zcash, competitive mining (PoW with 100% of blockrewards going to miners) does not necessarily give better price performance.

Dash              -95,6% Price Down from ATH
Bitcoin Cash    -93,8% Price Down from ATH
Zcash             -93,5% Price Down from ATH
  
Source : messari.io

Which means other factors are at play that influence price performance. Factors that have nothing to do with competitive mining.

[afbitcoins]

All i can conclude is

Based on cherry picking just 2 other bad performers. I gave you a list of other 100% mined coins doing significantly better. You can ignore reality all you want. You can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. Or maybe in your case you can

Just because other factors at play doesn't mean ignore the elephant in the room

[qwizzie]

All i can conclude is

Based on cherry picking just 2 other bad performers. I gave you a list of other 100% mined coins doing significantly better. You can ignore reality all you want. You can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. Or maybe in your case you can

Just because other factors at play doesn't mean ignore the elephant in the room

Those two bad PoW performers proof that competitive mining does not necessarily give better price performance.
It basically shoots a really big hole in toknormal market theory.

You can choose to ignore that and keep advocating the competitive mining approach, but it is already shot to pieces.

Dash is now excepted in one of the supermarket chain  in Venezuela. Even before this it was the most routine used cryptocurrency in the country.  Judging  what media says it beats even Bitcoin there. I noticed that Dash is the most widely used in countries where the economy is weak, probably because of extra pressure  being put on society by the political regime. Any way if Dash help those poor citizens  to survive then it's  mission there can be considered completed.

Great news, thank you for the heads up. I do think Dash mission in Venezuela is still ongoing, but this does show that Dash has build a strong position in Venezuela as a fast, secure, decentralized, payment system.

[toknormal]

Those two bad PoW performers proof that competitive mining does not necessarily give better price performance.
It basically shoots a really big hole in toknormal market theory.

qwizzie, the problem isn't one of price performance. It's much more fundamental and easy to observe if you consider at capital flows instead of anecdotal examples of trading history or trying to second guess the psychology of trading behaviour.

It's that the Dash chain suffers a continual capital loss by not recycling the value of the coins it generates back into the chain. The original idea was that the masternode reward would pay for an investment in a service layer of the protocol. So a small profit margin is justified - and can even lead to a large profit margin if its done efficiently.

But right now, that margin is just being paid for out of the capital value of the chain and that's what markets are pricing in.

[qwizzie]

Looks like Bitcoin has flipped (or is about to flip) $13,000 to support and is going towards $14,000  
Expect increased price volatility among Altcoins, when that happens.



Source : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/BINANCE:BTC-USDT?period=3d

[Dahaa]

the dash is about to break through a new bottom to btc and it is not at all clear where it will fly. Btc growth doesn't affect your shit.

Looks like Bitcoin has flipped (or is about to flip) $13,000 to support and is going towards $14,000  
Expect increased price volatility among Altcoins, when that happens.

[qwizzie]

Dash Core Group Q3 Quarterly Call - 29th of October 2020
Link : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-q3-quarterly-call-29-10-2020.50832/#post-223868

To toknormal : a perfect time for you to ask Ryan Taylor's opinion about your (unsupported) market theory.



No need to spread it here, when you can spread your (unsupported) market theory to a much wider Dash audience.
Unless you worry about the feedback you receive ?

To all : if you have questions for the Dash Core Group with regards to this Q3 Quarterly Call 2020, you can post them at the above mentioned link.

[toknormal]

To toknormal : a perfect time for you to ask Ryan Taylor's opinion about your (unsupported) market theory.

That isn't who needs to be convinced. It's the community that needs to understand it. (The market already does).