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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9669813 times)
qwizzie
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November 13, 2020, 09:39:06 AM
Last edit: November 13, 2020, 10:07:29 AM by qwizzie
Merited by marioantonini (2)

i hold 20 dash from 2018 and i don't think in sell, but other week i have see Binance Earn, pay 7.39% yearly (for lend my dash for 30 days) and 9.11% for lend for 60 day.
Anybody use this service, i think is really a good opportunity to have at least a minimum profit from my dash

If you are talking about locked savings / lending, i feel confidant that the percentages could be worth it.
I am not so sure about locked staking, i need to do some more research there.

Locked Savings : https://www.binance.com/en/lending#lending-fixeddeposits --> https://www.binance.com/en/support/articles/af64a497b040498f85c573baf4f24fcb
Locked Staking : https://www.binance.com/en/pos --> https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-is-staking

Below explains why certain duration options (or all duration options or even specific crypto coins) with locked savings / lending are unavailable sometimes :

Quote
Subscriptions will close on a certain product once the maximum limit is reached.
Binance Savings will make adjustments to the types of supported assets, interest rates, individual limits and total subscription limits based on market conditions and our internal risk management.
Source : https://www.binance.com/en/support/articles/af64a497b040498f85c573baf4f24fcb-DASH-Added-to-Customizable-Locked-Savings-on-Binance

I have a feeling that the locked savings / lending option are at times less available to users, then the locked staking option. Also i am not totally sure anymore about the max amount to stake with locked staking.
I thought i saw 50 Dash as max amount to stake with earlier, but more recent i saw 500 Dash as max amount to stake with. Maybe i saw it wrong before, or maybe Binance raised the max amount of Dash to stake with.

Just be aware that having funds on an exchange for a long time poses risks. Although Binance is a very large internationally operating exchange, that should by now have good security against hackers.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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birdonthewire
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November 13, 2020, 10:07:05 AM
Last edit: November 13, 2020, 12:38:55 PM by birdonthewire

toknormal : confuses his personal assumptions about competitive mining (which he often accompany with decorative pictures), for facts. They are not. They are just assumptions that have big holes in them.
I consider his assumptions invalid and going directly against everything this Dash crypto project stands for. He made a number of negative comments about Dash, with the latest that Dash price is in a death spiral
and not in a bear market.
 
thunderjet : his posts consists of nothing more then baseless assumptions, missing any evidence that points to miners somehow also being involved with masternodes. His posts are unsubstantiated and contain little value.
He made a number of negative comments about Dash (Dash coin wealth distribution would somehow be centralized without providing any evidence, just personal opinions and assumptions).
He is not even invested in Dash (80 Dash in 2017 and sold) and stated that the Dash price is getting dumped to oblivion, due to centralization.  

The market is directly contradicting what these two persons assume about the Dash market and the Dash price. Whenever the Dash market is showing signs of moving out of the bear market, then just think of these two persons and how very wrong they really were with their market assumptions and opinions.

 
With all due respect - you have been very kind to the doubts that I have raised in the thread and I do not want to you takes this post as an attempt at contempt, since it is not, nor would I want it to seem a lack of cordiality on my part -. It's a bit tedious and extra work to have to highlight this point ... but hopefully it helps digest the following without sterile "personal noise".

It is normal for any approach to have cracks and it is not presented as an absolute truth that holds the seven keys of wisdom. Totally disavowing approaches whose direction, partially, may be well oriented only indicates a flagrant imbalance: That the failures of these approaches are more suited to the interest of those who disavow than the successes of those same approaches (which, of course, those who try to disavow , does not give the same value because they are only "partially" correct).

The fallacy is the following: A partial error in an approach makes it useless ... but a partial success does not make it admirable (only if it supports own thesis, of course ). It is simply, essentially, unbalanced.

What indicates a failure in a reasoned and well-argued approach is that this specific extension on the original thesis is wrong (so it is necessary to return to the "mainstream path" of that credited approach and continue to evolve). If specific errors overruled a general approach, DASH - which by the way, fails in absolutely essential points at record levels - would be in the garbage can within two days of its launch. And these continuously repeated failures, and at enormous intensity in DASH ... do not serve you, however, to disavow "the whole". I repeat, it is not balanced.

On the other hand, you refer to the market (almost all of us often do) as the high priest of economic reason ... and that argument of authority is more than questionable in a global market deeply distorted by the infinite fiat (of whose scam BTC is starting to be one of the biggest catalysts).

The first thing that DASH must do is protect itself against the speculative agents that manipulate "Saint Market". As long as it does not, the clash of ideas at the level of community members ... and, worse, the sterility of the project, will be constant. The solution for DASH is structural ... and the debate, absolutely conceptual, essential and basic (return to the commented "mainstream path" - the correct central route of its own approach -). Any exhibition will fail, both to despise the project and to make it sacred, at the level of nuances ... simply because no non-structural approach will lead to a constant succession of correct results.

The market is simply infected and does not "bless" anything...is only a really fucking trash can. Without facing that infection, no project will progress with self-sufficiency in ownership of its own future and prosperity. The good news is that DASH, by design, is a good antidote to that infection. For my part, I will try to orient my interventions in that sense (which I believe is the most valid for a positive and self-sufficient course of the project - in fact, although i read diferent interesting nuances, i do not see any other determining factor for it ... perhaps the DIF, but not with stability, since it depends on its investor success and is therefore a speculative resource -. A scenario that DASH, with its current course, is far from reaching, despite having an ideal design for it, i insist -). As long as DASH does not confront its current position and straighten its course shielding its wealth in a DISTORTED market, nothing will change. Everything else will be a clash of opposing nuances doomed to the distraction and triumph of the global monetary scam (which, I am sorry to disappoint the idealists, is as present in crypto - indeed, exponentially amplified - as in any other sector).

 DASH IS THE VACCINE AGAINST THE NAKAMOTO´S CANNIBALISM* ( and its extractive virus, BTC ) 

*Parasitic growth system based on the transfer of wealth through speculative bubbles (the same old scam of the fiat global elite ...in a new format)

https://discord.com/channels/370148711088652288/660351836292775936/773522887616757770
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November 13, 2020, 11:35:32 AM

Seems that almost 100% of Dash miners are OK with reducing their share of block reward.
http://178.254.23.111/~pub/16_adoption.png

Counterintuitiveness?
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November 13, 2020, 12:28:34 PM


Counterintuitiveness?

Hybrid mining. thunderjet already explained it. Dash protocol encourages it.

Increased MN reward therefore helps miner's profitability by lowering their aggregate difficulty.
qwizzie
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November 13, 2020, 01:31:38 PM
Last edit: November 13, 2020, 02:08:33 PM by qwizzie

Seems that almost 100% of Dash miners are OK with reducing their share of block reward.
http://178.254.23.111/~pub/16_adoption.png

Counterintuitiveness?

No, just miners and mining pools most likely seeing the bigger picture. We have already seen an increase in our number of active masternodes, that recently led to a new ATH (5007).

Link : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png

Those new masternode operators most likely anticipated the upcoming change in Dash blockrewards (miners rewards -9% and masternodes rewards +9% over 4.5 years) and were responsible for buying up a part
of Dash circulating supply, in order to setup these new masternodes. Which may have caused reduced sell pressure on the Dash market.
 
So far Ryan Taylor's plan to improve Dash Store of Value by making masternodes more attractive to invest in, while at the same time addressing Dash expanding circulating supply problem (high supply inflation) for the next 5 years, seems to work as intended already. There is zero evidence of miners also setting up masternodes and zero evidence that a centralized masternode/miner combo is somehow responsible for the brutal 2 year long Dash bearmarket and the price decline that came with it. A brutal 2 year long bear market and price decline that of course not only hit Dash, but hit pretty much all the Altcoins. There is just a whole lot of assuming, blaming, wild accusations and opinions from certain people being thrown around in here, as usual.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
toknormal
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November 13, 2020, 02:08:11 PM
Last edit: November 13, 2020, 03:23:10 PM by toknormal


So far Ryan Taylor's plan to improve Dash Store of Value...seems to work as intended already.

What planet are you living on ?

In dollar terms it's barely clung on by its fingernails since the original presentation was made roughly a year ago. As far as the Satoshi price goes during the course of this year, any word that improves on "collapse" is being generous.

There is one slight glimmer of hope that may support your optimism. The long range Dash/USD seems to show accumulation against a flat price trace through-ought the year which would be consistent with your #pumpIsComing mantra and us possibly getting #washedUpByTheTide.

But Dash/BTC is abysmal and shows how little of that "tidal wave" we're capturing compared with our fully mined competitors. What I find discomforting about this whole philosophy is that you all seem to be looking for an exit pump. Desperate to get out and not interested in the long term health and growth of the coin.

qwizzie
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November 13, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
Last edit: November 13, 2020, 03:13:20 PM by qwizzie


So far Ryan Taylor's plan to improve Dash Store of Value...seems to work as intended already.

What planet are you living on ?

you all seem to be looking for an exit pump. Desperate to get out and not interested in the long term health and growth of the coin

I am living on a planet where miners and mining pools fully support Dash blockreward re-allocation change, where masternodes just established a new ATH and where the Dash price against fiat has been very stable
for many many months, during a very strong Bitcoin bull market. I live on a planet where currently most Altcoins are pretty much in the same situation as Dash, they also got to deal with a price decline of Dash magnitude.
They just seem to handle the price decline a lot better then some of us.

Dash price (almost as stable as a stable coin  Grin)

Source : tradingview.com

Altcoins Price Performance (by comparing each Altcoin with their % down from ATH)


Source : messari.io

The only one in here looking for an exit pump, seems to be you. You mentioned your intention to sell at first big pump a few times now.
I agree with jdmcg, next time please take some profit or go sell at first big pump, i don't care anymore.

I wonder what happened with this guy, he came across as so normal and nice :

Congratulations to those who supported the DCG proposal for block reward re-allocation and to Ryan for getting his policy endorsed with such a wide margin.

I hope it delivers the objectives you anticipate.

I think it lasted only a day, then a completely different toknormal emerged. Can we please have the normal and nice toknormal back ?

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
toknormal
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November 13, 2020, 03:46:57 PM


I think it lasted only a day, then a completely different toknormal emerged. Can we please have the normal and nice toknormal back ?

I am nice and thought it only common courtesy to congratulate the proposers on it passing the vote even if I didn't agree with the policy.

However, numbers are numbers. My issue isn't with DCG - they were given a job to do and are doing it. It's with the community who need to see that this path is folly, there can be no other way of putting it. Throwing half the supply down the toilet when other coins use it to strengthen their scarcity and therefore price is Kamikaze policy and we'll suffer for it. Sure we might get a pump but the higher it goes the less sustainable it will be and since we're already supporting 5000 nodes at enormous expense before it's even started I don't expect it to get anywhere near where it might do if we made more sensible use of the coin supply.
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November 13, 2020, 04:03:49 PM
Last edit: November 13, 2020, 04:29:23 PM by qwizzie
Merited by giammangiato (1)


I think it lasted only a day, then a completely different toknormal emerged. Can we please have the normal and nice toknormal back ?

I am nice and thought it only common courtesy to congratulate the proposers on it passing the vote even if I didn't agree with the policy.

However, numbers are numbers. My issue isn't with DCG - they were given a job to do and are doing it. It's with the community who need to see that this path is folly, there can be no other way of putting it. Throwing half the supply down the toilet when other coins use it to strengthen their scarcity and therefore price is Kamikaze policy and we'll suffer for it. Sure we might get a pump but the higher it goes the less sustainable it will be and since we're already supporting 5000 nodes at enormous expense before it's even started I don't expect it to get anywhere near where it might do if we made more sensible use of the coin supply.


This path is not meant to get us to a possible pump, it is meant to get us to a situation of less extreme price volatility during future Dash bull markets and Dash bear markets. It has to do with Dash supply and Dash still rather high supply inflation percentage (6.8%) coming from Dash emission rate schedule, and trying to circumvent the side-effects of that high supply inflation of 6.8% coming years, by making masternodes more attractive to invest in. Which will hopefully have an impact on Dash still expanding supply.

Supply Inflation:

Dash            6.79% (12 week inflation)
Litecoin        4.00% (12 week inflation)
Bitcoin Cash 1.74% (12 week inflation)
Bitcoin         1.78% (12 week inflation)
Monero        1.78% (it is actually lower then Bitcoin inflation, but i don't have an exact percentage --> https://ethereumworldnews.com/moneros-xmr-inflation-rate-bitcoins/)

Source : https://terminal.bytetree.com/

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
toknormal
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November 13, 2020, 04:31:24 PM


This path is not meant to get us to a possible pump, it is meant to get us to a situation of less price volatility during future Dash bull markets and Dash bear markets. It has to do with Dash supply and Dash (still rather high) supply inflation percentage
coming from Dash emission rate schedule, and trying to circumvent the side-effects of that high supply inflation over a long period of time, by making masternodes more attractive to invest in, which will hopefully have an impact on Dash (still expanding) supply.

Well it's a clueless strategy because is isn't going to change our emission schedule. It's not been remotely priced in but rather priced out. We have the inflation whatever the reward ratio is set at. At best it's an attempt to game orderbook liquidity which is a fool's errand at the best of times. What we'll get is more volatility because the more the price rises the greater the tension between masterode profitability and mining profitability and its then simply a question of time before it collapses back down. That point is also brought ever closer the more masternodes we have.

The clue is in the word "store. of. value.". You need to store value in the chain, not dump it straight back out as uneconomic profit givaways in the name of some silly cake-slicing scheme.

Which chains are getting the most usage and therefore for most "pumpable" ? The ones with the ease of use features or the ones with the best store of value performance ?

Looks to me like the chain that least values mining is unambiguously the one that's been abandoned here.


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November 13, 2020, 04:34:57 PM


This path is not meant to get us to a possible pump, it is meant to get us to a situation of less price volatility during future Dash bull markets and Dash bear markets. It has to do with Dash supply and Dash (still rather high) supply inflation percentage
coming from Dash emission rate schedule, and trying to circumvent the side-effects of that high supply inflation over a long period of time, by making masternodes more attractive to invest in, which will hopefully have an impact on Dash (still expanding) supply.

Well it's a clueless strategy because is isn't going to change our emission schedule.

It is not meant to change our emission schedule, it is meant to circumvent/dampen the negative side-effects of that emission schedule.
Changing our emission schedule is like breaking a social contract with the Dash community. That is the last thing anyone should want.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 13, 2020, 04:38:55 PM


It is not meant to change our emission schedule, it is meant to circumvent the side-effects of that emission schedule.

Well since it involves signalling to the market that we no longer value mining there's about as much logic to that as taking the engine out of your car so it's lighter going uphill.

Needs to be re-thought & reversed IMO.
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November 13, 2020, 04:42:07 PM


It is not meant to change our emission schedule, it is meant to circumvent the side-effects of that emission schedule.

Well since it involves signalling to the market that we no longer value mining there's about as much logic in that as taking the engine out of your car so it's lighter going uphill.

Needs to be re-thought & reversed IMO.

That is not going to happen, at some point you will have to come to terms with that.
It has been discussed on all our public forums, voted upon in our governance system, approved and majority supported by what seems to be both miners and masternode operators.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 13, 2020, 04:57:40 PM


That is not going to happen...It has been discussed on all our public forums, voted upon in our governance system, approved and majority supported by what seems to be both miners and masternode operators

Unfortunately, believing that forces you to continue arguing for a failed strategy. You don't feel you have the choice whereas I do.

It will become apparent, whether through force of reason or chronic underpricing and under-usage, that uneconomic profits are uneconomic regardless of what decisions are taken by masternodes and miners. There is no free money that's sustainable since monetary flows are simply the mirror of value flows and no value flows from the blockchain to masternodes unless it flows into it from somewhere else. Masternode margins are a drawdown, plain and simple whereas other coins rewards are not which is why they're beating us on every metric including now, utility.
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November 14, 2020, 01:21:03 AM

To toknormal:

It is all too obvious you are not here to debate or learn anything new. Rather you are here to spread your message as if received from an angel or perhaps God himself. But I've caught you now a number of times misrepresenting and twisting facts and bending them to fit your view. Your latest is your post showing transaction counts where you insinuate and make it look like Dash transactions counts are declining while LTC and XMR are increasing. Yes, LTC had a recent spike since mid-September which seems due to a game and not financial transactions at all, but you don't want anyone to know that do you? If you compare the 3 objectively, nothing much has changed, LTC is first, DASH is 2nd and XMR is 3rd.

Regarding the reallocation, you are in some kind of denial state, kicking and screaming, while the vote has already been counted and the results already implemented and just waiting to be fully switched on. Sound familiar? I wonder who will concede first? You or Trump?

I also think your denial state extends to your own anger and disbelief that you missed an opportunity to cash out back at the end of 2017 (or even months later) and this could not possibly be your own fault. So you are here to blame someone else, namely anyone you works for Dash or says anything to defend it and even the Dash protocol itself.

To thunderjet:

It seems difficult at best to have any kind of debate with you when you continually take assumptions you yourself made and re-present them as something I had wrote. Or when I pose a question and you misinterpret it as a statement instead. I'm merely questioning your assumptions. Also, it's strange to me why you wish to take a theory you presented as absolute truth when even if it were to be true it seems quite irrelevant in the bigger picture. Maybe you imagine that all masternode owners are also mining Dash and this somehow leads to Dash's end. So far not even one has come here to confess nor has any proof been provided to identify even one. You're not even invested in Dash so it's all the more curious what you are trying to accomplish here. I'm sorry you feel insulted, I called you out for your pride simply because you are unwilling to even concede that maybe masternode owners aren't also mining Dash. Whether it's possible or not is not in question. You presented it as fact even though I don't think it makes financial sense as the goal you accuse them of trying to accomplish can be done far cheaper.
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November 14, 2020, 10:16:35 AM


With respect I think you're the one who's in "denial", jdmcg.

You've been presented with facts-a-plenty but tend to engage the way you have above - by addressing the motivations of the poster rather than the matter at hand. The fact that masternode profits come from a capital drawdown while mining rewards do not, is academic. The fact that hybrid mining is supported and economically encouraged by Dash protocol is also academic. thunderjet's commentaries are made in good faith in that regard as far as I can see. You're the one that's being evasive.

The point you make regarding the scaling on the graphs above is a straw man because the loss of competitively in chain utility with XMR and LTC is unambiguous. Further, it's kind of ironic that the Dash transaction chart is so ridiculously rescaled. When you think about the reason for that, it's due it having to accommodate the stress tests which were conducted to address a problem we don't have - scaleability. (Would that we did have such a problem).

Regarding "the vote has been taken" perspective, if the governance system becomes a mechanism for institutionalised denial rather than constructive progress then we really are in trouble. These issues exist independently of the governance system and are addressed by the market if not by the community.
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November 14, 2020, 10:29:25 AM
Last edit: November 14, 2020, 11:08:01 AM by qwizzie


Regarding the reallocation, you are in some kind of denial state, kicking and screaming, while the vote has already been counted and the results already implemented and just waiting to be fully switched on. Sound familiar? I wonder who will concede first? You or Trump?

I had the same thought Wink

Looking at how toknormal has been behaving so far (willing to fork Dash, claiming Dash is in a death spiral, constantly presenting his own assumptions as facts, accusing everyone who is still invested in Dash and being positive about Dash future, to be part of some orchestrated exit pump) and currently is still behaving, i think the chance is high that Trump concede first. Maybe this is all a side-effect of toknormal being on hunger strike  Undecided

Not really a ringing endorsement is it. Two weeks stuck below 80% threshold and still not over it.

I'm one of the foot-draggers.

I'm protesting. I'll let my node go off the network before upgrading.

Hunger strike.

By the way, it looks like that last tweet from the official Dash Twitter account towards masternode operators to update to v0.16.0.1 ASAP, has really helped :  
 

Source : https://www.dashninja.pl/deterministic-masternodes.html

I expect active masternodes on v0.16.0.1 to be at 80%, by tomorrow.
The masternode operators just needed a little push.

Spork 21 will be activated 17th of November 2020, three days to go. After spork 21 gets activated, masternodes on older versions will start to get PoSe scored and ultimately PoSe banned from the network.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 14, 2020, 11:06:29 AM

................................

 DASH IS THE VACCINE AGAINST THE NAKAMOTO´S CANNIBALISM* ( and its extractive virus, BTC ) 

*Parasitic growth system based on the transfer of wealth through speculative bubbles (the same old scam of the fiat global elite ...in a new format)

https://discord.com/channels/370148711088652288/660351836292775936/773522887616757770
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November 14, 2020, 11:08:11 AM
Last edit: November 14, 2020, 11:20:08 AM by birdonthewire



Regarding the reallocation, you are in some kind of denial state, kicking and screaming, while the vote has already been counted and the results already implemented and just waiting to be fully switched on. Sound familiar? I wonder who will concede first? You or Trump?
____________________________________________________________________

I had the same thought Wink

Looking at how toknormal has been behaving so far (willing to fork Dash, ...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham_(programmer)#/media/File:Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement-en.svg

Too many ad hominems and attempts to ridicule and too many inaccuracies and fallacies presented as truth in your economic valuations of the measures that will presumably consolidate DASH as a store of value - and they will not, to get started because they do not even point to it ... but we will get into it that when the debate focuses on contributing and not disavowing, because that way we are not going anywhere ... positive, of course, that the rest is wasting time -. So many, that it would be more profitable to write a book than to answer them for free ... and also, it would be wasting energy and time in trolls, so I will not dedicate a second, sorry. Information intoxication in DASH is one of the first measures for the lousy imposed model to consolidate itself.

-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------


@Toknormal: Among your solutions, do you contemplate making a Fork of DASH as an option? ... Have you proposed it before something in this line? (I have not seen anything, sorry). I would appreciate a link to any info about it. Thanks.

 DASH IS THE VACCINE AGAINST THE NAKAMOTO´S CANNIBALISM* ( and its extractive virus, BTC ) 

*Parasitic growth system based on the transfer of wealth through speculative bubbles (the same old scam of the fiat global elite ...in a new format)

https://discord.com/channels/370148711088652288/660351836292775936/773522887616757770
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November 14, 2020, 11:16:56 AM

..............

 DASH IS THE VACCINE AGAINST THE NAKAMOTO´S CANNIBALISM* ( and its extractive virus, BTC ) 

*Parasitic growth system based on the transfer of wealth through speculative bubbles (the same old scam of the fiat global elite ...in a new format)

https://discord.com/channels/370148711088652288/660351836292775936/773522887616757770
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