[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[eltito]

Let me just float this one in the air and see if it has some merit.

Imagine if Darkcoin could be used by governments for local, regional and eventually national voting in political elections.

Stick with me for a bit.

Voting costs a lot of money. There is a lot of administration.

Voting has to be fair, anonymous and foolproof.

Which bit of the above, so far, doesn't fit DarkSend?.

The hashing algo can provide a proof of voting. The administrators to an election can buy enough Darkcoins and sub-divided them into Duffs and issue them to registered voters. Registration includes setting up an online wallet, app., etc. for voters. There are some security issues that need to be fleshed out, but that's detail.

Over a specified period, voters can send their duffs to the candidate of their choice. Those candidates would have addresses that can be counted up in minutes not hours or days. The voting process is known only to the administrators and the voters - but crucially, the administrators don't know who the voters voted for, just that their Duffs were spent (they can even spend them on booze and not vote).

The process would be so cheap to run by comparison to existing elections, you could have regional votes every month on this or that issue.

And Darkcoin investors? Well, we would be laughing all the way to the DarkBank  

I think I'm going to put this one to a vote as a possible future roadmap suggestion, after we see if there are any flaws.

The only fundamental flaw I see is the futility of voting in the first place. If your vote was worth anything, you wouldn't be allowed one.

DS does fit the anonymity requirement nicely though.

Blue sky, I would take it 1 critical step further: each citizen is sent a tax bill, which they pay by sending however much they want up to the total required to wallets corresponding to healthcare, education, blowing up Muslims, sexier nurse uniforms, fixing the roads, whatever they actually want their tax money spent on. That would be a lot closer to the principle of democracy than simply electing some shitbag who ignores how you want your money spent and instead lines his/her own pockets with it.

"Government" then becomes (ideally) simply the transparent, accountable administration of funding the projects that the demos has specified and paid for.

Both interesting ideas to explore.

Like I keep saying though, first you'd need to make darkcoin something that my grandmother could use.  Want to see it explode in a way BTC only ever dreamed of?  Figure out how to do that .

[coins101]

Let me just float this one in the air and see if it has some merit.

Imagine if Darkcoin could be used by governments for local, regional and eventually national voting in political elections.

Stick with me for a bit.

Voting costs a lot of money. There is a lot of administration.

Voting has to be fair, anonymous and foolproof.

Which bit of the above, so far, doesn't fit DarkSend?.

The hashing algo can provide a proof of voting. The administrators to an election can buy enough Darkcoins and sub-divided them into Duffs and issue them to registered voters. Registration includes setting up an online wallet, app., etc. for voters. There are some security issues that need to be fleshed out, but that's detail.

Over a specified period, voters can send their duffs to the candidate of their choice. Those candidates would have addresses that can be counted up in minutes not hours or days. The voting process is known only to the administrators and the voters - but crucially, the administrators don't know who the voters voted for, just that their Duffs were spent (they can even spend them on booze and not vote).

The process would be so cheap to run by comparison to existing elections, you could have regional votes every month on this or that issue.

And Darkcoin investors? Well, we would be laughing all the way to the DarkBank  

I think I'm going to put this one to a vote as a possible future roadmap suggestion, after we see if there are any flaws.

I was able to take this seriously until I read Duffs, then I thought

There was a couple of threads a few hundred pages back about mDRK. Evan Duffield, Darkcoin Dev - hence, Duffs  

We might have to have an Ape in there as well for InternetApe, Kyle Hagan.

[thelonecrouton]

Let me just float this one in the air and see if it has some merit.

Imagine if Darkcoin could be used by governments for local, regional and eventually national voting in political elections.

Stick with me for a bit.

Voting costs a lot of money. There is a lot of administration.

Voting has to be fair, anonymous and foolproof.

Which bit of the above, so far, doesn't fit DarkSend?.

The hashing algo can provide a proof of voting. The administrators to an election can buy enough Darkcoins and sub-divided them into Duffs and issue them to registered voters. Registration includes setting up an online wallet, app., etc. for voters. There are some security issues that need to be fleshed out, but that's detail.

Over a specified period, voters can send their duffs to the candidate of their choice. Those candidates would have addresses that can be counted up in minutes not hours or days. The voting process is known only to the administrators and the voters - but crucially, the administrators don't know who the voters voted for, just that their Duffs were spent (they can even spend them on booze and not vote).

The process would be so cheap to run by comparison to existing elections, you could have regional votes every month on this or that issue.

And Darkcoin investors? Well, we would be laughing all the way to the DarkBank  

I think I'm going to put this one to a vote as a possible future roadmap suggestion, after we see if there are any flaws.

The only fundamental flaw I see is the futility of voting in the first place. If your vote was worth anything, you wouldn't be allowed one.

DS does fit the anonymity requirement nicely though.

Blue sky, I would take it 1 critical step further: each citizen is sent a tax bill, which they pay by sending however much they want up to the total required to wallets corresponding to healthcare, education, blowing up Muslims, sexier nurse uniforms, fixing the roads, whatever they actually want their tax money spent on. That would be a lot closer to the principle of democracy than simply electing some shitbag who ignores how you want your money spent and instead lines his/her own pockets with it.

"Government" then becomes (ideally) simply the transparent, accountable administration of funding the projects that the demos has specified and paid for.

Both interesting ideas to explore.

Like I keep saying though, first you'd need to make darkcoin something that my grandmother could use.  Want to see it explode in a way BTC only ever dreamed of?  Figure out how to do that .

You're right, and this is where all previous plans for world domination have failed. Happy grannies should come first, all else will inevitably follow.

(I am quite serious.)



Saw this elsewhere about VTC: http://vimeo.com/93022009
We need more community videos about DRK. They don't have to have a multimillion DRK budget. Shoot something on your phone and post it on Youtube, anything. Just get the word out...

[coins101]

Let me just float this one in the air and see if it has some merit.

Imagine if Darkcoin could be used by governments for local, regional and eventually national voting in political elections.

Stick with me for a bit.

Voting costs a lot of money. There is a lot of administration.

Voting has to be fair, anonymous and foolproof.

Which bit of the above, so far, doesn't fit DarkSend?.

The hashing algo can provide a proof of voting. The administrators to an election can buy enough Darkcoins and sub-divided them into Duffs and issue them to registered voters. Registration includes setting up an online wallet, app., etc. for voters. There are some security issues that need to be fleshed out, but that's detail.

Over a specified period, voters can send their duffs to the candidate of their choice. Those candidates would have addresses that can be counted up in minutes not hours or days. The voting process is known only to the administrators and the voters - but crucially, the administrators don't know who the voters voted for, just that their Duffs were spent (they can even spend them on booze and not vote).

The process would be so cheap to run by comparison to existing elections, you could have regional votes every month on this or that issue.

And Darkcoin investors? Well, we would be laughing all the way to the DarkBank  

I think I'm going to put this one to a vote as a possible future roadmap suggestion, after we see if there are any flaws.

The only fundamental flaw I see is the futility of voting in the first place. If your vote was worth anything, you wouldn't be allowed one.

DS does fit the anonymity requirement nicely though.

Blue sky, I would take it 1 critical step further: each citizen is sent a tax bill, which they pay by sending however much they want up to the total required to wallets corresponding to healthcare, education, blowing up Muslims, sexier nurse uniforms, fixing the roads, whatever they actually want their tax money spent on. That would be a lot closer to the principle of democracy than simply electing some shitbag who ignores how you want your money spent and instead lines his/her own pockets with it.

"Government" then becomes (ideally) simply the transparent, accountable administration of funding the projects that the demos has specified and paid for.

Both interesting ideas to explore.

Like I keep saying though, first you'd need to make darkcoin something that my grandmother could use.  Want to see it explode in a way BTC only ever dreamed of?  Figure out how to do that .

Having seen a company get funding from local governments to try and solve this problem, one of their biggest asks was finding ways to better engage young voters - 18-35. The cost savings were equally important, so I think something like this gets national and international attention.

Using an app on a smart phone to allow nursing homes up and down the country to vote, it won't take long for the silver surfers to become the silver crypto surfers.

I'd seriously plough 50 BTC into DRK if this was part of the roadmap and got some attention in the press. Wired would be all over it.

[Donho]

Let me just float this one in the air and see if it has some merit.

Imagine if Darkcoin could be used by governments for local, regional and eventually national voting in political elections.

Stick with me for a bit.

Voting costs a lot of money. There is a lot of administration.

Voting has to be fair, anonymous and foolproof.

Which bit of the above, so far, doesn't fit DarkSend?.

The hashing algo can provide a proof of voting. The administrators to an election can buy enough Darkcoins and sub-divided them into Duffs and issue them to registered voters. Registration includes setting up an online wallet, app., etc. for voters. There are some security issues that need to be fleshed out, but that's detail.

Over a specified period, voters can send their duffs to the candidate of their choice. Those candidates would have addresses that can be counted up in minutes not hours or days. The voting process is known only to the administrators and the voters - but crucially, the administrators don't know who the voters voted for, just that their Duffs were spent (they can even spend them on booze and not vote).

The process would be so cheap to run by comparison to existing elections, you could have regional votes every month on this or that issue.

And Darkcoin investors? Well, we would be laughing all the way to the DarkBank  

I think I'm going to put this one to a vote as a possible future roadmap suggestion, after we see if there are any flaws.

The only fundamental flaw I see is the futility of voting in the first place. If your vote was worth anything, you wouldn't be allowed one.

DS does fit the anonymity requirement nicely though.

Blue sky, I would take it 1 critical step further: each citizen is sent a tax bill, which they pay by sending however much they want up to the total required to wallets corresponding to healthcare, education, blowing up Muslims, sexier nurse uniforms, fixing the roads, whatever they actually want their tax money spent on. That would be a lot closer to the principle of democracy than simply electing some shitbag who ignores how you want your money spent and instead lines his/her own pockets with it.

"Government" then becomes (ideally) simply the transparent, accountable administration of funding the projects that the demos has specified and paid for.

The fundamental flaw I see is that it would get a lot easier to anonymously buy and sell the votes

[thelonecrouton]

Let me just float this one in the air and see if it has some merit.

Imagine if Darkcoin could be used by governments for local, regional and eventually national voting in political elections.

Stick with me for a bit.

Voting costs a lot of money. There is a lot of administration.

Voting has to be fair, anonymous and foolproof.

Which bit of the above, so far, doesn't fit DarkSend?.

The hashing algo can provide a proof of voting. The administrators to an election can buy enough Darkcoins and sub-divided them into Duffs and issue them to registered voters. Registration includes setting up an online wallet, app., etc. for voters. There are some security issues that need to be fleshed out, but that's detail.

Over a specified period, voters can send their duffs to the candidate of their choice. Those candidates would have addresses that can be counted up in minutes not hours or days. The voting process is known only to the administrators and the voters - but crucially, the administrators don't know who the voters voted for, just that their Duffs were spent (they can even spend them on booze and not vote).

The process would be so cheap to run by comparison to existing elections, you could have regional votes every month on this or that issue.

And Darkcoin investors? Well, we would be laughing all the way to the DarkBank  

I think I'm going to put this one to a vote as a possible future roadmap suggestion, after we see if there are any flaws.

The only fundamental flaw I see is the futility of voting in the first place. If your vote was worth anything, you wouldn't be allowed one.

DS does fit the anonymity requirement nicely though.

Blue sky, I would take it 1 critical step further: each citizen is sent a tax bill, which they pay by sending however much they want up to the total required to wallets corresponding to healthcare, education, blowing up Muslims, sexier nurse uniforms, fixing the roads, whatever they actually want their tax money spent on. That would be a lot closer to the principle of democracy than simply electing some shitbag who ignores how you want your money spent and instead lines his/her own pockets with it.

"Government" then becomes (ideally) simply the transparent, accountable administration of funding the projects that the demos has specified and paid for.

The fundamental flaw I see is that it would get a lot easier to anonymously buy and sell the votes

Plus ca change...

This way at least the little people could profit too if they wished. Shifting the power (and responsibility) down the ladder couldn't be worse than what we currently have.

[Kai Proctor]

Let me just float this one in the air and see if it has some merit.

Imagine if Darkcoin could be used by governments for local, regional and eventually national voting in political elections.

Stick with me for a bit.

Voting costs a lot of money. There is a lot of administration.

Voting has to be fair, anonymous and foolproof.

[...]

So I can use thousand of wallets and have more weight in an election ? More money more rights ? It's anonymous yes, but fair no... And that's why they'll say : "let's tie the wallet to the id to have a really fair vote" 

[coins101]

Let me just float this one in the air and see if it has some merit.

Imagine if Darkcoin could be used by governments for local, regional and eventually national voting in political elections.

Stick with me for a bit.

Voting costs a lot of money. There is a lot of administration.

Voting has to be fair, anonymous and foolproof.

[...]

So I can use thousand of wallets and have more weight in an election ? More money more rights ? It's anonymous yes, but fair no... And that's why they'll say : "let's tie the wallet to the id to have a really fair vote"  

Clearly, it needs some thought into linking issued addresses or numbers of addresses issued with counted votes. You still need to have the principle of one person one vote. That's the type of extension coloured coins would probably be considered, but I'm not a fan of those.

If you can solve the issue of anonymous voting using a crypto currency, you also begin to solve a lot of other problems - like shareholder voting for decentralised anonymous corporations.

[traderman]

I know this is not related to Darkcoin, but it is very important. This petition is for Avaaz, which is a very large and popular grass-roots activist/petition site.
If they accept Bitcoin it will be very important for all cryptocurrencies going forward.

Now is your chance to sign the petition:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Avaazorg_Start_accepting_cryptocurrencies_like_Bitcoin_for_donations/?nFCTmbb

[Minotaur26]

Can we take the non-development discussion to some other thread somewhere else? It's nice to see this thread active but how many more times are we going to quote "you bring the escorts, I'll bring the beer" jokes and images! This is one of the first places people hit to get an idea on DRK and that all this trade non-sense, dirty jokes/references, constant bickering between a few usual suspects should not be the first thing they see!

Dude relax, this is by far the most interesting thought provoking thread in the altcoin world, whether it is technology discussions, philosophical issues, long term investment vision, etc. If you go to other threads they just discuss the price of their ponzi scheme coin and ignore whether it adds value to the real world or not. I think creating a culture around DRK  is very important to have a cohesive community, and so far this community is attracting intelligent and interesting people looking to create something revolutionary. Now back to listening to Pink Floyd while trading DRK.

[GhostPlayer]

Can we take the non-development discussion to some other thread somewhere else? It's nice to see this thread active but how many more times are we going to quote "you bring the escorts, I'll bring the beer" jokes and images! This is one of the first places people hit to get an idea on DRK and that all this trade non-sense, dirty jokes/references, constant bickering between a few usual suspects should not be the first thing they see!

Dude relax, this is by far the most interesting thought provoking thread in the altcoin world, whether it is technology discussions, philosophical issues, long term investment vision, etc. If you go to other threads they just discuss the price of their ponzi scheme coin and ignore whether it adds value to the real world or not. I think creating a culture around DRK  is very important to have a cohesive community, and so far this community is attracting intelligent and interesting people looking to create something revolutionary. Now back to listening to Pink Floyd while trading DRK.

 Plus, lets not forget that an organised place to discuss DRK is called darkcointalk.org!

 Anyway, got stuck setting up a MN, can't seem to run daemon... what gives?

ubuntu@ip-172-XX-56-67:~$ darkcoind
terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error'
  what():  locale::facet::_S_create_c_locale name not valid
Aborted (core dumped)

 

[sangoku]

What's the difference between darksend and a mixing service for bitcoin ?

[BitcoinFX]

Wanted to let everyone know that I've been rewriting/editing copy for a new website, and have made some progress on adapting a template. Still a bit to do but would welcome feedback so far. It's just a proposal but should hopefully be better than the current site.

Here's a screengrab of part of the front page...

Great improvement over the existing website design.

It also matches my free web based proxy / promo sites template: http://www.darkproxy.net and https://ssl.darkproxy.net

...

Whilst I'm here - can I recommend / suggest that the Darkcoin project and the community supports the Reset The Net initiative by Fight For The Future.

Watch: http://youtu.be/qKk8MHFLNNE

See: https://www.resetthenet.org/ - Reset The Net, before June 5th, 2014 - #ResetTheNet

You can support this initiative via Twitter, Facebook and Tumblr by linking the Thunderclap.it app to your account

See: https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/10619-reset-the-net/

This will potentially bring alot of interest to Darkcoin and its also a very worthwhile campaign in terms of promoting Internet Privacy.

BitcoinTalk.org forum thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573931.0

Cheers!

[eltito]

What's the difference between darksend and a mixing service for bitcoin ?

BTC mixers are centralized - just one server sitting out there like a big fat juicy target for snoopers.  Should the server be compromised by law enforcement (or whomever), it'd no longer be anonymous.  DarkSend chooses mixing nodes from the existing network and skips all over the place, making it difficult to infiltrate.  Also, the service is built in to the client with Darkcoin, so no fees for mixing.

There is more to it, but that's the gist.

[Minotaur26]

What's the difference between darksend and a mixing service for bitcoin ?

BTC mixers are centralized - just one server sitting out there like a big fat juicy target for snoopers.  Should the server be compromised by law enforcement (or whomever), it'd no longer be anonymous.  DarkSend chooses mixing nodes from the existing network and skips all over the place, making it difficult to infiltrate.  Also, the service is built in to the client with Darkcoin, so no fees for mixing.

There is more to it, but that's the gist.

There is also the very important trust issue, a BTC mixer is owned by someone you need to trust with your coins. We are moving away from centralization and into trustless solutions.

[Kai Proctor]

Let me just float this one in the air and see if it has some merit.

Imagine if Darkcoin could be used by governments for local, regional and eventually national voting in political elections.

Stick with me for a bit.

Voting costs a lot of money. There is a lot of administration.

Voting has to be fair, anonymous and foolproof.

[...]

So I can use thousand of wallets and have more weight in an election ? More money more rights ? It's anonymous yes, but fair no... And that's why they'll say : "let's tie the wallet to the id to have a really fair vote"  

Clearly, it needs some thought into linking issued addresses or numbers of addresses issued with counted votes. You still need to have the principle of one person one vote. That's the type of extension coloured coins would probably be considered, but I'm not a fan of those.

If you can solve the issue of anonymous voting using a crypto currency, you also begin to solve a lot of other problems - like shareholder voting for decentralised anonymous corporations.

1-If the weight of the vote is function of the number of shares it's possible : let's say that the number of shares is equivalent to the number of coins in a wallet, a vote coming from a big wallet (or many of the same user) can have more power than a vote coming from a smaller one.

2-But if it's "one person, one vote" the identity has to be tied to the vote one way or another.

[lunokhod2]

Could someone point me to some documentation that describes exactly how darksend works?

To note: I have read the DarkSendDocumentation.pdf, the darkcoin white paper, and I have spent about an hour searching the web looking for information on this, but all accounts are overly simplistic, and oftentimes, contradictory. I suspect that there are many people like me who are not using Darkcoin simply because this information is not readily available.

For example, do you send money to a mixing pool first, and then withdraw it later? Do you need to use fixed denominations (10, or 100 DRK)? Can you check how many coins your transaction was mixed with? How many coins are in the pool? Do I send coins to a pool, or are they simply just mixed with all the coins that occur in the block? And how exactly are the coins mixed, what's the algorithm? Are there any studies on deanonymizing darksend transactions?

Thanks in advance.

[eltito]

Could someone point me to some documentation that describes exactly how darksend works?

To note: I have read the DarkSendDocumentation.pdf, the darkcoin white paper, and I have spent about an hour searching the web looking for information on this, but all accounts are overly simplistic, and oftentimes, contradictory. I suspect that there are many people like me who are not using Darkcoin simply because this information is not readily available.

For example, do you send money to a mixing pool first, and then withdraw it later?

No, mixing happens while your coins are on their way to their intended recipient.  You send out in denominations of 10 (currently).  Your tx is processed, then intended amount goes to your recipient, and you receive "change" back.  Everything is sent in denominations of 10 to make it more difficult to tie specific tx amounts to specific addresses.

Do you need to use fixed denominations (10, or 100 DRK)?

You send your desired amount.  Denomination happens automatically and you receive "change".

Can you check how many coins your transaction was mixed with?

If there is a way to do this, I'm not sure what it is.

How many coins are in the pool? Do I send coins to a pool, or are they simply just mixed with all the coins that occur in the block? And how exactly are the coins mixed, what's the algorithm? Are there any studies on deanonymizing darksend transactions?

Rest of these I'm not sure of.  I'm sure others can answer though.

[coins101]

Could someone point me to some documentation that describes exactly how darksend works?

To note: I have read the DarkSendDocumentation.pdf, the darkcoin white paper, and I have spent about an hour searching the web looking for information on this, but all accounts are overly simplistic, and oftentimes, contradictory. I suspect that there are many people like me who are not using Darkcoin simply because this information is not readily available.

For example, do you send money to a mixing pool first, and then withdraw it later? Do you need to use fixed denominations (10, or 100 DRK)? Can you check how many coins your transaction was mixed with? How many coins are in the pool? Do I send coins to a pool, or are they simply just mixed with all the coins that occur in the block? And how exactly are the coins mixed, what's the algorithm? Are there any studies on deanonymizing darksend transactions?

Thanks in advance.

We have an app for that

DarkSend

Q. Is there an estimated date on DarkSend being out of beta and a "finished" product? (@March 26, 14)
A. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5913097#msg5913097

Q. What is the difference between ZeroCoin and Darkcoin [DarkSend]?
A https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5241291#msg5241291

Q. Is there a white paper for DarkSend?
A. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5767979#msg5767979

Q. Step By Step, how is the DarkSend Protocol actually working?
A. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5717144#msg5717144

Q. Will DarkSend be open source?
A. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5622989#msg5622989

[chompyZ]

I would like to ask the devs to make it compulsory to include the blockchain as part of the supernodes, and have it as 'read by anyone'.
I think that once we have the supernodes up and running with a readable blockchain that is accessible by anyone, different services might evolve independent of the darkcoin devs on top of this, such as the thin wallet described by TS.

Personally, I'm thinking less about smartphone wallet, and more about symbian wallet for third world countries.
These countries enjoy a huge influx of remittances by workers sending money back home, traditionally via Western Union.
We have in our village Thai and Filipino students/workers. I heard how much they are charged for transfers and almost fell to the ground.

This is  huge market of more than $0.5 TRILLION PER YEAR.

I think this also bundles well with the Darkcoin gift-card that the devs are working on.