[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[the-baker]

just floating a photo of a slide with no context and some scattered hints in forums doesn't cut it.

Sounds like you kinda missed this:

Evan Duffield Explains Dash Technology and Announces Evolution at Bitcoin Wednesday

No, I saw it. But it didn't really add much to the photo we had already seen. There were a couple of hints in the QA video, if you had the patience to sit through it, but nothing I'd call substantial

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[fluffypony]

1) idea
2) write & code
3) peer review & test
4) implement
5) tell people about it

Out of curiosity: What is the difference between 2 and 4 in your list?

2 would be a reference implementation, in Python for example, and 4 would be the actual implementation.

[toknormal]

If he doesn't deliver or if it's broken, he was unethical and in fact did SCAM

dnaleor. I think you need something spelled out to you to save you from making a complete a*s of yourself on these forums for what remains of the year.

Do you see this chart below ? It is a market depth chart.



Its significance to this discussion is that every person on that chart represented by the blue and orange lines, values that asset differently. There is no agreement in the market whatsoever except for the last two solitary traders where the lines meet. The only difference between Market-Depth-Resident-A and dnaleor is that MDR-A does not go round behaving like a religious zealot trying to get the rest of the market to share his position on that chart.

You want to turn this from an exercise in asset valuation into a debate over legitimacy ?

Fine. I’d be happy to because in my opinion there is far more of a basis for calling Monero “scam” than Dash with its faux claims at anonymity, fungibility, privacy and modernity when in fact all you have is obscurity and commercial obscolescence. The fact that I don’t go posting antagonistic attacks and personally maligning known individuals from that project is (a) because I can exercise my opinions in the market and (b) because I understand they are my own priorities and others may legitimately value them differently. (Hence the existence of a market depth profile illustrated above).

In that regard, be advised that there's nothing in your post that isn't already understood by most interested parties around here, it’s just that they are priced in to our valuation (many times over, thanks to its over exposure by now).

You’re concerned that “new investors” won’t know about the instamine ? Well I’m concerned that new investors in all of Dash’s competitors don’t know about their failings as well and I consider them to be far more critical (to the future at least) than Dash's instamine is.

Please do yourself a favour and stop behaving like a spoilt child who can’t get his way. Either deliver an equivalent product to Dash for us to invest in, with identical technical properties, roadmap, managed by Evan Duffield, free of any launch issues or pick yourself a place on that market depth chart and live with it like everyone else. More importantly, please afford others that courtesy for it was the investors that instructed the developer to continue the project and not restart it. It is the investors who are the authority on whether they were ‘scammed’ or not and it is the investors who will determine what the ‘price’ of the launch failings were relative to the asset’s perceived strengths.

Finally, it’s important for markets to have full information. But 5-10 people spamming every known media channel available to them with hate filled, personalised malignant bile or even hammering away at one fact to the exclusion of all others is not a service to markets.

It is a vendetta, and you are to be condemned for it.

[the-baker]

1) idea
2) write & code
3) peer review & test
4) implement
5) tell people about it

Out of curiosity: What is the difference between 2 and 4 in your list?

2 would be a reference implementation, in Python for example, and 4 would be the actual implementation.

OK, but then strictly speaking, you would need another test phase after 4 :-)

[coins101]

1) idea
2) write & code
3) peer review & test
4) implement
5) tell people about it

Out of curiosity: What is the difference between 2 and 4 in your list?

2 would be a reference implementation, in Python for example, and 4 would be the actual implementation.

OK, but then strictly speaking, you would need another test phase after 4 :-)

I'm pretty sure Satoshi, told people about it, wrote a paper, wrote some code, implemented it, pissed off.

[salmion]

What if I told you there are a few currencies that are taking the serious approach of testing it first, trying to write a decent paper about it and then implementing it?

What If I told you these currencies believe that they are in the accumulation stage while everything is being thoroughly tested and that if you buy in now and when the everything is released and peer reviewed and the gui has had multiple rounds of ux testing and focus groups on the correct orange to use that because of that the universe will adopt it! And all the accumulators will all be rich (back slapping and such ensues.) Sound familiar?

In reality by that time everything will have changed 5 times over.

Or in testing a better idea comes up. What do you do? pivot? Or stay the academic course?

There has to be a balance between security and speed of development/relevance.
And yes new needs security reviews. Preferably multiple.

In my own work I've seen projects actually sink because of the level of documentation and anal retentive box ticking.

So personally I'll side with speed and the prospect of something amazing (even if half of what is proposed is delivered the results will be amazing) over overthorough naval gazing.

 


  

[Sub-Ether]

Hilarious comments guys, the irc log was my favourite bit but it was all good  
I'll leave you with a few quotes from a great thinker that I feel catch the moment,

“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.”
“Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
“The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.”
“Creativity is intelligence having fun.”

~~Albert Einstein~~

[the-baker]

What if I told you there are a few currencies that are taking the serious approach of testing it first, trying to write a decent paper about it and then implementing it?

I just had a fun idea: Why don't you demonstrate the awesome power a decent paper can have by writing one about the flaws in Dash's design and submit it to Ledger for publication? That would give you some serious street cred, and might actually impress quite a few people in this thread. At the very least, it would give us something concrete to talk about

[salmion]

What I really think is that all this arguing is like masturbation, it accomplishes nothing.

So why don't we all zip down, measure up and touch wieners and get over it.

I prefer my suggestion the Dash/Monero "Academic Conference on privacy in cryptocurrencies" aka drink and argue for fun. But whatever works I guess :S

[stan.distortion]

Budget proposal for beer!!

[fluffypony]

So I'd like to address some of the earlier posts.

First off, to those that felt it necessary to make puerile comments about me, ad hominem attacks weaken your premise. I understand it's hard to see the wood for the trees, but honestly, get over yourselves. You aren't beyond reproach (far from it), and all of you clearly lack the humility and wherewithal to know what you don't know. Shooting the messenger doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant. Stating that you are ignorant is not "FUD", it's a statement of fact, but the good news is that ignorance is a state you can escape from.

Now, it's important to understand why this "spork" nonsense is so fundamentally broken. I've seen arguments centred around the "many-eyes" principle of FOSS, and some based on deterministic builds (which is an idiotic argument, and completely misses the point, so I won't be addressing it).

I know that for many of you this is your first open-source project, and your first exposure to the development of security software of any kind, and so you may be unfamiliar with thinking adversarially. You may think that merely because a handful of others glance at the code that it magically makes it secure, but that is not the case. Open-source software i just at risk as closed-source software, except that you're not paying known entities to review the code. Neither approach is a magic bullet.

So how could a backdoor be hidden in the code? If you've ever seen the International Obfuscated C Code Contest you'll know that it is reasonably trivial to make code nearly impossible to read and grok. But have you ever heard of the Underhanded C Contest? If you're familiar with C then I encourage you to take a look at some of the past entries.

The long and the short of it is that it is not unheard of, or particularly difficult, for an obfuscated back door to be slipped into open-source code. But hey - this is a risk in Bitcoin and Monero and other cryptocurrencies, so Dash is fine, right??? Well...for currencies besides Dash the risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the effects of such a backdoor can immediately be observed, whereas with Dash the "spork" model means that an exploit can be hidden away and only activated at a later stage, or the network can be remotely forked by anyone who holds the spork key.

My conversation with dEBRUYNE was neither secret (it was in a public channel) nor was it incorrect. If you can't understand the implications of what I said then it would behove you to discuss it with me, rather than insulting me.

[TanteStefana2]

http://www.bitcoinwednesday.com/impressions-from-bitcoin-wednesday-7-october-2015/

I think this is more relevant information :

"Based only on the reaction from the audience more Dash-related presentations would be welcome at future editions of Bitcoin Wednesday."

That mean they loved it !  

And :
"It was also impressive that Dash team members, Daniel Diaz, Balázs Király and Robert Wiecko also flew in (from Panama, Hungary and Switzerland, respectively) to give talks about their work on the cryptocurrency — in total five from the Dash team from five different countries.  Evan has assembled an ambitious group with a lot of interesting ideas."

 

Any news on whether or not they're going to release the videos of the other speakers?

[TanteStefana2]

as far as i know the gta v hacker is still mining and dumping about a 1000-1500 or more coins a day.
also, i think people with lots of masternodes are dumping their rewards as they already have a ton of DASH.
asic's should eventually help stop the first problem but that's a ways off.

Does it make any difference whether it's bot-hackers, masternodes or regular miners ? Isn't the daily coin emission the same whatever ?

Yup, my point was only that it was all easily absorbed by new masternodes.  I think that speaks volumes.

[Lukas_Jackson]

...

Thank you for saving me from your honey pot project.

[the-baker]

The long and the short of it is that it is not unheard of, or particularly difficult, for an obfuscated back door to be slipped into open-source code. But hey - this is a risk in Bitcoin and Monero and other cryptocurrencies, so Dash is fine, right??? Well...for currencies besides Dash the risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the effects of such a backdoor can immediately be observed, whereas with Dash the "spork" model means that an exploit can be hidden away and only activated at a later stage, or the network can be remotely forked by anyone who holds the spork key.

Well, obviously the spork feature increases the attack surface. It also allows for more agile development. Like always, it's a trade-off. But I'm fairly sure most people here are aware of that.

[salmion]

So I'd like to address some of the earlier posts.

First off, to those that felt it necessary to make puerile comments about me, ad hominem attacks weaken your premise. I understand it's hard to see the wood for the trees, but honestly, get over yourselves. You aren't beyond reproach (far from it), and all of you clearly lack the humility and wherewithal to know what you don't know. Shooting the messenger doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant. Stating that you are ignorant is not "FUD", it's a statement of fact, but the good news is that ignorance is a state you can escape from.

We wouldn't if you didn't sometimes come across like such a Doos. Ek speel maar net.

That said what would be the benefit of Evan putting malicious code into his project? Or anyone else from the dev team? Also as they can be rolled back by other members of the team any such theoretical attack from within could hopefully be negated?

[MasterMined710]

...printed bog paper

Two raffles

One for a loaded Dash wallet handed out on a USB stick

and one for some XMR on a toilet paper based "wallet" (non-GUI but most likely gooey.....)

Paper wallets or usb sticks? Nah InstantX to people in the crowd. Preferably to their phones. Boom.

great idea but do we have a mobile wallet that supports instanTX?

[dnaleor]

1) idea
2) write & code
3) peer review & test
4) implement
5) tell people about it

Out of curiosity: What is the difference between 2 and 4 in your list?

2 would be a reference implementation, in Python for example, and 4 would be the actual implementation.

OK, but then strictly speaking, you would need another test phase after 4 :-)

I'm pretty sure Satoshi, told people about it, wrote a paper, wrote some code, implemented it, pissed off.

He didn't pump bitcoin on conferences.
Of course, he told people about bitcoin. But not trying to sell it to an investment audience.

[salmion]

...printed bog paper

Two raffles

One for a loaded Dash wallet handed out on a USB stick

and one for some XMR on a toilet paper based "wallet" (non-GUI but most likely gooey.....)

Paper wallets or usb sticks? Nah InstantX to people in the crowd. Preferably to their phones. Boom.

great idea but do we have a mobile wallet that supports instanTX?

By then hopefully..Problem with that idea is getting their addresses. Spose they could just skype/email them to him.. but seems clunky. First 10 messaged addresses from the room gets 10 dash!

[kointrend]

http://cointelegraph.com/news/115510/worlds-first-dapi-decentralized-application-programming-interface

Cool!