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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9722495 times)
Solarminer
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December 22, 2015, 07:56:09 PM


Here's the problem mono-tiered protocols have (and why there are almost none in existence amongst network protocols).

Also why bitcoin has problems trying to be both a cash medium AND a settlement layer.


Toknormal, Your post above is great, but what can we do to make this understandable to the non-crypto initiated?  Maybe you could add some graphics to my post below and we could turn this into an info sheet for beginner bitcoiners to help them understand the concepts and look at Dash as an alternative. 

Let's say each transaction is a message, blocks hold messages in a letter, Blocktime is the time it takes to deliver the letter.  Call each block 1 day so it works with this model.

Bitcoin Transactions:
You pay a standard fee (Economy Mail delivery in 7 days)
You message gets queued to go into a letter
Other messages may go first if they paid a higher fee
Delivery expected in 7 days

You pay a higher fee (Express Mail - 1 day)
You message gets queued to go into a letter with higher priority
Delivery expected in 1 day.

Increasing block size.(Economy Mail Price with Express Mail Delivery)
You can now pay a standard fee
All messages get accepted and ship in a box
Delivery expected in 1 day.

Lightning Enhancement(Trusting a 3rd party vs Blockchain)
Pay with standard or higher fee
3rd party service looks at your message and calls recipient with transaction details.  You pay for phone call.
Letter arrives in 1-7 days to hopefully confirm what 3rd party service said.
You are trusting the 3rd party to convey correct details(no block chain security)

Transaction Bundling
(Coinbase/Bitpay transactions)
Pay with reduced fee
Coinbase accepts transactions and combines several into each message
Messages are put in letters with a 1 block delay
3rd party services can look at messages communicate with others 'in network' quickly.
Delivery is instant for in network, out of network is 2 days

RBI(Fee based, possible to get bumped)
Pay with a standard fee
Others pay with higher fee
Your message doesn't get enough priority and gets returned.

Dash Transactions
(Instantx with Evolution Implementation)
Pay with zero fee
Message sent via EMAIL!
Delivery ~1 second
No 3rd party trust needed, no fees, no risk, fast.
There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, but full nodes are more resource-heavy, and they must do a lengthy initial syncing process. As a result, lightweight clients with somewhat less security are commonly used.
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December 22, 2015, 08:01:55 PM



https://twitter.com/taoofsatoshi/status/679389563391971329


AlexGR
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December 22, 2015, 08:05:59 PM

It's extremely difficult to find a system that can have very low to no fees and that isn't simultaneously open to abuse by a script-kiddie... unless that system doesn't actually store a ledger but rather something like ...balances which shift.

Actually even then you can spam it by creating a lot of balance addresses that would require XX bytes to store, just by sending a no-fee tx of 1 satoshi / duff to a veeeery long list of random addresses. So, I really can't think of how you can make a promise of zero to very low fees and infinite scaling when you are also opening yourself to an attack vector.

But then again, I'm not the coder here.
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December 22, 2015, 08:20:12 PM

Hi!

How do I stake this coin?

Thanks!

There is no stake in the traditional sense. But can earn interest (currently 14% p.a.) for running a masternode (1000 Dash required). https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/DOC/Masternode+guides

I see!

Thanks for the info!
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December 22, 2015, 08:27:40 PM




TaoOfSaatoshi
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December 22, 2015, 08:33:25 PM

Yes, that's what I signed up for... bring it on!  Grin

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December 22, 2015, 09:03:58 PM

Sorry to screw with your post Tok, but this was too inaccurate:


Out of curiosity, how does RBF "murder" 0-conf transactions ?

P.S. Non-articulated protocols. The internet already binned them 50 years ago so no-one needs to be surprised. You can't fix one thing without screwing another. Elephant in the room.

Can't fix capacity without screwing with blocksize.
Can't fix anonymity without screwing with  transparency.
Can't fix speed without screwing with confirmations.




Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
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December 22, 2015, 09:07:52 PM


Actually, I think that there will always be a tiny minimal fee, no?  And Evan has submitted a plan for larger entities, like businesses, to pay a (small) fee, while keeping most user's access virtually free (probably some kind of tiny fee to mitigate attacks?) 

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
bigrcanada
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December 22, 2015, 09:13:53 PM


Actually, I think that there will always be a tiny minimal fee, no?  And Evan has submitted a plan for larger entities, like businesses, to pay a (small) fee, while keeping most user's access virtually free (probably some kind of tiny fee to mitigate attacks?) 

As a merchant...I'm ok with a Fee.  There is no way that you can sustain a system without maintenance fees of some sort, i believe.

Proud lifetime DASH Foundation Member | First Brick & Mortar DASH Merchant |  Please visit DASH.org or DASHtalk.org for a list of merchants and information.
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December 22, 2015, 09:25:45 PM
Last edit: December 22, 2015, 10:51:03 PM by toknormal


Toknormal, Your post above is great, but what can we do to make this understandable to the non-crypto initiated?

It doesn't necessarily work - at least as far as widespread adoption is concerned. Explaining and communicating the technical advantages can only get you so far - e.g. to the "thinkers". To get the real economy to absorb the benefits needs either financial incentives or brute force.

The WIMPS system (Windows, Icons and Pull-Down Menus) went through 3 incarnations of convincing "thinkers" before it really went mainstream. And it wasn't the same technology - or company - that ultimately did it.

[1] XEROX invented it, [2] Apple sold it and [3] Microsoft dominated it.

The reason it got from [1] to [2] was because the boffins in Xerox managed to convince the technically literate at Apple. But the reason it got from [2] to [3] was ultimately because of the IBM monopoy's big achilles heel.


That was that they were mainframe manufacturers and couldn't re-tool fast enough to jump on the "micro" revolution. The "brute force" bit was that Bill Gates managed to get IBM to contract him to write their OS. Thus it went from PC-DOS to MS-DOS and Microsoft went from outsider to insider overnight. That gave them the monopoly they needed to sho-horn their own GUI into the market (first Windows 3.0 in 1990 and later Windows 95) and keep the lid on Apple's technological lead.

What Must Dash do Therefore ?

All industrial precedents must be studied and all possible historical lessons learned - both technological and commercial. What the 80's/90's lessons seem to say is that Dash must look for monopolies with an achilles heel which its unique advantages directly address. (These don't necessarily have to be big - they can be "mini-monopolies" or dominant interests in specific markets). In particular, it has to identify clear markets where the integrated approach trumps the technologically diverse one. With Apple it was desktop publishing and music. (In fact even Atari had a dominant market presence in music studios for a while with etheir GEM OS).

The obvious one for Dash is Bitpay and the POS market. Dash's instant transactions are infinitely more secure than bitcoin's and Bitpay is mass-marketing those. So the technical bit is there, it's the politics that's the unknown. It was politics that let Microsoft put their foot in the door of Apple's progress (at least at the start).

Look what's happening with Bitcoin - that's all politics as well because we now have a well funded, commercially interested party (Blockstream) that bought itself a significant chunk of the bitcoin core developer personnel. (I realise some of them are founders themselves but they're not the significant funders).

The way to get politics on your side is simply to have something that no-one else has or can easily reproduce. That can be to "own" certain markets as well just as owning certain technologies. It's a no brainer therefore that the corporate world would want to get its hands on at least some of the tiny group with commit access to bitcoin core - and that's exactly what they've been able to do.

There are many sectors I'm sure that Dash can put roots into, however large or small. Sometimes a tiny strategic presence can be as important as a large, high turnover one.

Here's one  I stumbled across the other day. This woman runs a business which secures creative work for artists and massively increases security for purchasers in terms of mitigating counterfeit copies of stuff like paintings. It appears to be a growing business but the "digital footprint" service is centralised. She sees bitcoin as a "competitor" and is wondering how to proceed. (In fact she see blockchains in general as competitors to her business).

People like that have "achilles heels" and are desperate to address them. They are fertile ground for products and services which come along and turn their weakness into a strength. They don't need to be sold on nerdy concepts of cryptocurrency, just given a solution with minimum hassle.

I'm not saying for sure that that type of business is Dash's target market - but it may well be one of them since Dash can probably do BOTH the securing of the digital footprint and also provide an online, secure micro payment service. I'm just highlighting that example as a case where marketing and identifying your commercial strengths are more important than explaining technical details.

P.S.

Sorry to screw with your post Tok, but this was too inaccurate:

Very nice ! You're too right.
TaoOfSaatoshi
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December 22, 2015, 09:27:49 PM

Actually, I think that there will always be a tiny minimal fee, no?
Nope.



Zero-fee transactions standard!

vvrroomm
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December 22, 2015, 09:27:56 PM

Hello DASHers,

The monero guys have asked me to provide them with proof that one of their devs was bragging about having back doors and no users being aware of them because they are stoopid in an irc chat.  I know I read a post about it but I can't find it.  If anyone can help me find that post, it will help to destroy their credibility.  Can anyone help me find it?  Yes, I know, I should have bookmaked it or something.  I am human.  Thank you, vvrroomm

P.S. See I can be nice.  I hate lies.  Have a good day.
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December 22, 2015, 09:36:06 PM

Monero Specifications

•PoW algorithm: CryptoNight [1]
•Max supply: Infinite (see note below) [2]
•Block reward: Smoothly varying [3]

Finally fixed the max supply.  Nice stealth update! So now the coin has infinite amounts!  LOL

TO INFINITY AND BEYOND LOL!
moocowmoo
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December 22, 2015, 09:42:39 PM

It's extremely difficult to find a system that can have very low to no fees and that isn't simultaneously open to abuse by a script-kiddie... unless that system doesn't actually store a ledger but rather something like ...balances which shift.

Actually even then you can spam it by creating a lot of balance addresses that would require XX bytes to store, just by sending a no-fee tx of 1 satoshi / duff to a veeeery long list of random addresses. So, I really can't think of how you can make a promise of zero to very low fees and infinite scaling when you are also opening yourself to an attack vector.

But then again, I'm not the coder here.

Difficult, but not impossible.

All these scenarios are being considered. Smiley

To be a little less vague, quorum acceptance of dapi requests has some intelligence baked in.

responses to novel attacks are also in the works.

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December 22, 2015, 10:29:09 PM

Nice RBF rally in the Dash market, ATM. It seems Evolution's contrast with Bitcoin's "blocks for the highest bidder" approach works for people...

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December 22, 2015, 11:16:01 PM

Hi All, I have a dark coin wallet v0.11.1.25 . I want to send them to a dash wallet.

Do I download the latest dash client and then swap in the wallet.dat from the dark wallet to the dash wallet?

Thanks in advance

Yes.

-------------------------------------

But be sure to make a backup of your dark wallet.

For anyone that is reading, make sure to always download wallets etc. from the official website.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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December 22, 2015, 11:29:23 PM

Hi All, I have a dark coin wallet v0.11.1.25 . I want to send them to a dash wallet.

Do I download the latest dash client and then swap in the wallet.dat from the dark wallet to the dash wallet?

Thanks in advance

Yes.

Latest dash wallet: https://mega.nz/#!69tSGIYC!T1LsGCgZ3xrPxD_f1DH5wG9PyvEAQTnGQSrXr8zusx0

But be sure to make a backup of your dark wallet.

DO NOT DOWNLOAD FROM ANYWHERE BUT www.dash.org


Thank you for your time
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December 22, 2015, 11:39:46 PM


LATEST DASH WALLET IS ALWAYS ON WWW.DASH.ORG


downloading from anywhere else will most likely cost you your coin.


with the one exception of development builds found here:

https://dashpay.atlassian.net/builds/allPlans.action

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December 23, 2015, 12:40:04 AM
Last edit: December 23, 2015, 12:53:20 AM by tungfa


 Wink
toknormal
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December 23, 2015, 12:41:41 AM


Aren't you a bit ahead of yourself there ?

Feeling impatient ?  Wink
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