[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[qwizzie]

No need to reply to a broken clock, broken clock will just keep on rambling about 'free money' and will never ever accept
any argument against it. Best to just let broken clock be.

If only broken clock could find a forum where he could be happy, discussing broken clock things with other broken clocks.
Here is a song for all the broken clocks out there : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Exxu8lsGYE

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[espressodelisi]

I just do not understand? How is a masternode reward is free mones? To run a maternode I need to run a server and not the cheapest server. And I need to risk money in 1000 Dash coleteral, and its the real danger because it may lose its value. so how it is called free money?


And what will happen when coins created from mining will become very little? How miners and masternodes fund? are masternodes gets a divicent from trasaction fees too?

[qwizzie]

I just do not understand? How is a masternode reward is free mones? To run a maternode I need to run a server and not the cheapest server. And I need to risk money in 1000 Dash coleteral, and its the real danger because it may lose its value. so how it is called free money?


And what will happen when coins created from mining will become very little? How miners and masternodes fund? are masternodes gets a divicent from trasaction fees too?

When newly generated supply cease to be a factor, miners and masternode operators will indeed need to rely on the transaction fees.
I think at that point another kind of change is needed in Dash Proof of Work model. But that is still many many many years away (i doubt we will see it in our current lifetime) and not a pressing matter.

Masternode operators will also benefit from additional revenue streams that will come from the Dash Platform. The fees from the Dash Platform (which is basically a side chain) will go to masternode operators,
which is therefore already one additional revenue stream. Maybe more revenue streams for masternode operators will come from future Dapps, running on the Dash Platform.

Maybe Dash will introduce at some point a form of Dash Savings / Staking that will be much more accessible to users (not limited to a collateral of 1000 Dash). This does not necessarily need to come
from Dash Core Group. Additional dev teams / developers could be funded in the future to specifically handle something that is currently not on the roadmap, or has a low priority for Dash Core Group.
  

[qwizzie]

Lets talk about Dash Dapps for a moment, what would you all like to see developed that could really benefit Dash users and maybe make it a
'Killer Dapp' for Dash ?

[toknormal]

I just do not understand? How is a masternode reward is free mones?

You take the revenue of the masternode reward and subtract the cost of running the node. (The capital cost of the node does not qualify, nor do notional costs such as "risk" and "opportunity cost").

When newly generated supply cease to be a factor, miners and masternode operators will indeed need to rely on the transaction fees.

Indeed. Then you'd pretty quick see how sustainable the current MN margin was cos with the current rewards we'd be astronomically expensive compared to bitcoin.

broken clock

Broken clocks are only right once per day whereas the haemorrhaging of capital from our increasingly "numerically inflated" coin to other fully competitively-mined ones is continuous and chronic.

It's numerically inflated vs competitively mined. Market picks the latter for store of value unless you can justify the cost of the reduced mining proportion (which we can't at the moment).

[Dahaa]

Eth almost $ 400 and this shit $ 100 can't take

[qwizzie]

toknormal, i have been wondering about something. Some time ago i read on Discord with regards to you making a remark here on this forum about forking Dash
that toknormal should just vote with his node.

When i first read that i thought how one could possibly vote with his node, but then it occurred to me that this could be a reference to a masternode.
Which does seem pretty unlike you, with your thoughts about 'free money' and masternode blockrewards having no value and all.

I have only ever seen one masternode operator advocate increasing mining rewards instead of masternode rewards on Dash Central, and that comment was posted inside
Ryan's Blockreward Reallocation proposal. That masternode operator pretty much came out of the blue, with no prior governance discussion history (never discussed any budget proposals on
Dash Central before, so far i can recall). So that indicates to me that person either votes without ever discussing a proposal (except Ryan's blockreward proposal) or that person is most of the time
not really interested in the governance part.

So i just have to ask you, are you in fact a masternode operator ? A masternode operator with little interest in Dash governance system and more in it for the blockrewards ?
A masternode operator that at the same time is also voicing some very strong negative beliefs on the value of masternode rewards, labeling it as 'free money' ?

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Are Blockchains Ready for Gamers?

Blockchains have had a rocky relationship with the gaming industry. High-profile integrations with tech giants have ended in termination, due to the sorely-lacking user experience blockchains offered. Fast-forward to the present, and a second wave of blockchain networks might be taking another crack at this huge and fast-growing industry. Is there a blockchain network out there that's up to the task? Find out in this episode of CATV.



Thanks for watching!

[toknormal]

Longish range OBV indicating accumulation. Possible cross to the upside if we stay coupled with BTC.

[toknormal]

So i just have to ask you, are you in fact a masternode operator ? A masternode operator with little interest in Dash governance system and more in it for the blockrewards ?

I've operated a node since God knows when - 2014 I think. I've also been fairly active on Dashcentral except for the last year or so (used to be dashwhale) and have participated in governance discussions for donkeys (in all areas - Dashwhale, BCT, Toxic Slack, Toxic Discord, Non-toxic Slack, Non-toxic Discord...you name it).

I've been less active in the last year because I started to notice that "big issues" tend to be dominated by big voting blocks (or so it seemed to me - may just be paranoia) and their outcomes predictable. Also, contrarians have been steadily "weeded out" of the community which is very unhealthy IMO. But the last proposal is a line in the sand for me. I've promoted this coin for years on the basis that it's a competitor to bitcoin, not Ethereum/Tezos.

We're above ETC at last. Lets be thankful for small mercies.

[qwizzie]

So i just have to ask you, are you in fact a masternode operator ? A masternode operator with little interest in Dash governance system and more in it for the blockrewards ?

I've operated a node since God knows when - 2014 I think. I've also been fairly active on Dashcentral except for the last year or so (used to be dashwhale) and have participated in governance discussions for donkeys (in all areas - Dashwhale, BCT, Toxic Slack, Toxic Discord, Non-toxic Slack, Non-toxic Discord...you name it).

I've been less active in the last year because I started to noticed that "big issues" tend to be dominated by big voting blocks (or so it seemed to me - may just be paranoia) and their outcomes predictable, but the last proposal is a line in the sand for me. I've promoted this coin for years on the basis that it's a competitor to bitcoin, not Ethereum/Tezos.

So why are you a masternode operator, when you see so little value in the whole concept of masternode rewards ?
It just comes across as hypocritical to constantly attack Dash masternodes blockrewards (labeling them as free money, without having any value), while being a masternode operator yourself for all this time.
Most people dream of one day having enough Dash to start a masternode, and here are you having one (or more) masternodes and constantly trashing the whole masternodes blockreward concept.
It is just strange to observe.

 

[toknormal]

So why are you a masternode operator, when you see so little value in the whole concept of masternode rewards ?

I don't. I see a lot of value in the "concept" of masternode rewards.

I just see little value in the current implementation because it's gone so far past the point of diminishing returns. It's the dollar value of the rewards that matters, not the Dash-denominated value. (i.e. inflating your stash in "Dash" is just the same thing as taking a 1Kg sandpile with 1000 grains of sand and turning into a 1Kg sandpile of 1100 grains. It's still 1Kg of sand unless somehow the value of the sand itself increases).

Inflating the supply on a purely numerical basis is therefore meaningless in itself. There's no value unless it's created "out there" in the real economy. There are only 2 ways this happens in crypto:

1. with competitive mining, a price is put on the scarcity of the coin at the point of generating the block (i.e. that price represents a consensus value based on the amount of competition that prevailed when mining it. Nothing to do with "energy". The degree of competition is a consensus measure of the scarcity)

2. with service-oriented smart-contract chains the inflationary element is justified along the fiat model where you inflate according ot the size of the underlying economy or in response to demand for liquidity. It isn't scarcity/store of value per se. So if you're going to create blockchain-hosted contracts that embody entire nation-sized bond offerings and such like, the token value gets this priced in (as happened with Ethereum when all the ICO insanity wave hit in 2017) then maybe priced-out later when its activity declines

The MN reward would be justified if there was a near equivalent amount of cost involved in running the node (whose value fed back to the investor in a way that they found justifiable), but without that it's just pure numerical inflation for the sake of it which the market will eventually reconcile through revaluation of the capital holdings (downwards). At the moment Dash can have all the versatility it currently has with a much smaller MN reward. It's just wasted (apart from paying for ski-ing holidays and living costs for holders, but investors are not gonna be too impressed with bearing those kind of costs those for very long, specially 5000 nodes's worth).

If Dash restored its identity - as a "more powerfully versatile bitcoin" than bitcoin, but retained the security of competitive mining to keep the scarcity of its primary supply elevated then we'd have a higher coin value and need less masternode reward. The MN reward isn't about an income, it's about making the capital gain (store of value) aspect competitive alongside bitcoin. The MN reward can only be fully appraised by adding in the capital loss from the 1000 Dash. If that's negative there's no reward at all.

Conclusion (to answer your "hypocrisy" question), IMO it's preferable for the protocol to target a $10k per year margin on a node worth $500,000 than a $6k per year margin on a node worth $100,000. (In the former case, the MN margin in Dash terms is only 33% of the latter. Think about that for a moment).

[jdmcg]

We're above ETC at last. Lets be thankful for small mercies.

Ha! It was a week or so even before I expected.

But really this shouldn't be a surprise. DASH will almost certainly be above XMR too. Just give it some time for this bullish cycle to play out.

DASH re-tested and held the 50 DAY MA vs BTC as support. It will now most likely re-attempt to break above the 100 DAY MA in the next hours/days (that is roughly 0.008 BTC).

[WastedLTC]

Lets talk about Dash Dapps for a moment, what would you all like to see developed that could really benefit Dash users and maybe make it a
'Killer Dapp' for Dash ?

a BTC wallet (or other coins),  messaging,  file storage, photo storing/sharing/commenting .. 

 

[thunderjet]

Dash Wealth Distribution



Source : https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/#!rich

Litecoin Wealth Distribution



Source : https://chainz.cryptoid.info/ltc/#!rich


Conclusion : Dash wealth distribution is not that centralized as certain people claim it to be, Dash only has 5,9% in top 10 addresses. Litecoin has 12,3% in top 10 addresses
Even in the top 100 addresses, Dash is scoring pretty low with 17,5%. Litecoin has a much higher score there too (43,1%).
Same for top 1000 addresses where Dash is scoring 31,5% and Litecoin is scoring 64,9%.
Note : the higher the score in top 10 addresses / top 100 addresses  / top 1000 addresses, the higher the centralization.

Just looking at Dash wealth distribution, i suspect Dash is scoring pretty well with regards to healthy wealth distribution among all the crypto projects out there and has much higher
decentralization (less centralization among top 10 / top 100 / top 1000 addresses), then most people realize.    

Talking about coin wealth distribution via number of addresses with lot of coins in it is obsolete.In the beginning of crypto market it had some sense,but today not any more.Today addresses with huge stash of coins are exchanges hot and cold wallets.All big players dilute their coins in 100s and 1000s of addresses,to make harder tracking of theirs funds which can be very useful as a precursor of major market moves.Dont get me wrong,I think that DASH project is better than ETH and many others,but I also knew that major investors in ETH are far more serious and competent to establish ETH as a major coin despite its numerous past and present flaws.

That is why structure of investors in coin is so important.Trashing coin is easy,playing long game and get people confidence in it is much harder.

[qwizzie]

Talking about coin wealth distribution via number of addresses with lot of coins in it is obsolete.In the beginning of crypto market it had some sense,but today not any more.

Then how do you personally analyze coin wealth distribution and base your centralization view on it, if not through addresses ?
An analysis that should be objective and supported with data / statistics.

The more coin wealth distribution is centralized, the more it is pumped-dumped with huge amplitudes.DASH is just one of these coins. It is mercilessly trashed to oblivion,
because it is in hands of just few people

That statement of yours just sounds very subjective, without any support of data or statistics. Which is why i made my original post in the first place.

Please explain why you think Dash coin wealth distribution is centralized, when addresses (where the coins are in) in fact show the opposite for Dash. Sure exchanges will have
large cold / hot wallets, but that counts for all crypto projects and is not a reason to dismiss coin wealth distribution through addresses for open blockchains.
Not to mention the fact that 68,5% of Dash coin wealth distribution is located outside top 10, top 100 and top 1000 addresses (with Litecoin that is only 35%).

I suspect you dismiss addresses as a means to analyze coin wealth distribution out of hand, because it clashes with your subjective view of Dash. Someone most likely stated on a forum somewhere
that Dash was centralized, which you read, agreed upon without questioning and from that point you started to associate Dash with centralization.

Please show us the evidence that Dash coin wealth distribution is centralized.

With regards to Ethereum investors : what do you think those investors will do with their investments, when they notice Ethereum's netwerk getting increasingly more congested, its gas fees getting increasingly
more expensive and its dapps getting negatively affected by all that ? Ethereum's network is already at 95% utilization thanks to DeFi (mainly due to massive Tether ERC-20 transactions traffic) and there is no short term
solution in sight.

Link : https://cryptoslate.com/vc-ethereum-has-negative-network-effects-needs-scaling-solutions-now/

ETH 2.0 update is launched in phases and its first phase (phase 0) will offer no scaling solution (it just focus on setting up a PoS sidechain and initializing validators). Phase 1 & 2 which focus on
sharding as scaling solution, are years away (ETH 2.0 is a multi-year 2020-2022 update). Even launch date end of 2020 for phase 0 in the ETH 2.0 update, is just a soft target launch date.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Teacher's life vs. Dash Life | Voices of Dash Nation



Education’s one of the main engines of society, and one of the resources that will make us free.

In any developed country, being a teacher implies a wealth of benefits, both professional and personal. However, in Venezuela, this sector is hit hard for teachers by the economy and the reality in which we are living nowadays. There aren’t fair or adequate salaries, there isn’t protection for the teachers and their rights are vilely violated every day.

The education sector is statistically the lowest paid compared to other sectors in the country, both in the public and private sector. Each day, an estimated income of $ 0.33 dollars is obtained, an “amount” that doesn’t reflect the effort and dedication that all teachers invest and put into in their daily work...

Read more: https://www.dashnation.com/voices-of-dash-nation/teachers-life-vs-dash-life/

Thanks for reading!

[qwizzie]

*** Be very carefull with Ledger hardware wallets right now ***

Link :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/i3j5xo/ledger_app_isolation_bypass/
https://monokh.com/posts/ledger-app-isolation-bypass

This post will disclose a vulnerability in the Ledger hardware wallets that can lead to theft of user funds.

An attacker can exploit this method to transfer Bitcoin while the user is under the impression that a transaction of another, less valuable altcoin (e.g. Litecoin, Testnet Bitcoins, Bitcoin Cash, etc.) is being executed

If you use bitcoin forks on your device, you could be affected. You should avoid using these ledger apps until fixes are available.

The issue has been disclosed to Ledger but remains unaddressed

Ledger response : https://donjon.ledger.com/lsb/014/

It is a vulnerability that could also affect Bitcoin clone to Bitcoin clone (for example you think you are sending out Dogecoin, but in reality a malicious wallet is sending out Dash).
Just be careful with ledger hardware wallets and third party software right now, until this gets fixed by Ledger in a few days. The fix will apply to all Ledger hardware products at the same time.

These are the coins affected so far (there are a few cut off from the screenshot, but it does cover most) :  


Source : https://donjon.ledger.com/lsb/014/

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Turbocharging Dash as a Store of Value

The Dash network's unique economics has been a topic of focus for the last several months. The mix of Proof of Work and Proof of Service, miners and masternodes, total and circulating supply have all been discussed at length. Now, an optimization has been proposed and approved by Dash's decentralized governance system. What was it, and will it help? Find out on this episode of CATV!



Thanks for watching!

[toknormal]

I'm sorry @tao but the idea that circulating supply (& ultimately marketcap) is make or break based on whether masternode reward perfectly compensates for inflation rate is, not to put too fin a point on it...ludicrous.

The nodecount saturated because once the "low hanging fruit" of large holders & large buyers had been moped up, the rest of the coin supply is simply far more fragmented. Add to that the fact that with 5000 nodes, an enormous amount of fiat demand is required to sustain the value since:

1. the mining cost of the primary supply barely changes so we still potentially need to charge the market the same "fiat" cost for mining

2. ADDITIONALLY we now have 5000 masternodes of "earnings" being sprayed at it which 100% mined alternatives don't have. Up to 6500 Dash per week of potential dumping.

The price therefore collapsed along with our ranking and point 2 means that we have an extreme headwind against us in ever recovering that ranking.

The faulty analysis in the Hackernoon article and in DCG's appraisal is that it's ALL done intra-Dash. i.e. it compares one Dash protocol state with another. One Dash ROI (only measured in terms of Dash, not $USD) with another. One Dash inflation state with another. It only works if Dash is a monopoly and the only market option in existence, but it isn't. The analysis needs to be redone in the context of the market as a whole and acknowledging the fact that investors always have alternatives. Capital that previously went into mining won't go into masternodes, it'll go into competing, 100% competitively mined alternatives (as it has been doing for the last 3 years).

Hence we now have no less that 9 mined competitors, NONE of which have ANY ROI let alone an ROI which compensates for inflation in their own currency terms, who's chains are valued more highly than Dash.