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Ozziecoin
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August 17, 2014, 09:26:41 AM |
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Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet.
Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised.
Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized.
An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events
What is being traced? You have 1% chance of traced back to the one address. But that original address has no context. The coins for that address has itself been mixed. My original question was why are there different numbers of masternodes being chosen, in other words, 1, 2, etc.. rounds of mixing. the purpose of this question was I was wondering the speed of transaction involved. The answer was that "The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions." and a spreadsheet was given with the probability of de-anoning happening. So as I understand it, the spreadsheet is telling you the chance of a de-anon'd transaction. Is this incorrect? My main point here is why do I have to do many hops if it takes a long time? If I only have to do 1 hops, why is there an option for 2 hops? why not just always do 1 hops? I personally think anything more than 2 hops is overkill, unless the coins came from a personally identifiable source like an exchange with my real name on it. And it would just be silly to use your real name. I see, so the main problems would be when doing darkcoin linked to other goods such as bitcoins, or things which can be traceable through the mail or something.. or personal transactions with the coin.. if you are just transferring darkcoins from wallet to wallet then not a problem? Yes. That is my understanding. Thx for the discussion Happy to help. One caveat is that darksend has not been open sourced. |
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coinzcoinzcoinz
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August 17, 2014, 09:27:22 AM |
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The price is rising again, we're back to 0.0055
I actually think it is a good thing that the price has dropped like this because it shakes out all the weak hands that had unrealistic expectations and those that can't tell the difference between DRK, which is trying to reinvent the wheel, and other anon coins which are rife with problems or are merely adding trusted mixers to the blockchain. Once those "investors" are gone the coin will be in better shape. Plus the accumulation of stronger hands will concide with the tech being in better shape (compared to previous rallies) owing to all the work the devs and testers have put in. If you can get BTC ready fast enough this is the time to accumulate. I agree. Now the last weak hand we need to get rid of is camosol. He is a horrible, negative person. I hold him responsible for at least a few million in market cap decrease, by hijacking this thread with his repetitive negativity and aggression, just because some community members would not acknowledge his issue. This cry baby should really get over himself, the possible issue is tracked in JIRA and will be looked at. Camosol, please dump your coins and never come back. We don't want you. Your attitude belongs at cloakcoin. I will be more than happy to lose another million in market cap due to you dumping your coins. It's for the best of Darkcoin on the long run. |
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Count P
Newbie
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Activity: 2
Merit: 0
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August 17, 2014, 09:28:50 AM |
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The price is rising again, we're back to 0.0055
Hi everyone, These are dark times endeed. Just bought about 400 coins to stabilize DRK. Hope it will go up from here! Evan, keep up the good work! I trust in you! Cheers Count P |
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KryptoFoo
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August 17, 2014, 09:31:13 AM |
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Just finished reading Kristov Atlas' book on anonymous bitcoin. An insightful read on using bitcoin anonymously, go buy it if you are interested! My takeaway is that relatively decent anonymity may be possible with bitcoin but it is very complicated. One must be VERY thorough and trust in the centralized btc mixing services available. Not something that I would personally be comfortable with more than a few BTC.
DRK looks superior in all regards as far as anonymous usage is concerned. If Evan and team succeed with IP obfuscation and make darkcoin easy and foolproof enough so that the average person can use it with default settings and achieve very high anonymity, we have a true winner. And I do not doubt this will come to pass!
The other thing we need is utilty. If we can spend darkcoin anywhere bitcoin is accepted then I have no reason to use bitcoin. I know darkcoin is a bitcoin fork so perhaps this will accelerate merchant adoption. Far better if we find out tomorrow that darkcoin is usable anywhere bitcoin is accepted but suppose it's just going to take some time.
I do think that Kristov will have an overall positive review of darkcoin but surely there will be some caveats. Perhaps he will be concerned with block chain bloat. Or take issue with a practical concern such as, darkcoin has superior anonymity but limited utility, and when one swaps back in bitcoin one must still undertake significant effort to spend that bitcoin anonymously. I.e. we need darkcoin merchant acceptance to realize the full benefit of darkcoin anonymity (duh). Anyways looking forward to his review.
Hope to see his review soon!
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crimi
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August 17, 2014, 09:33:48 AM |
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Problem is like with nxt you have the best working thing out there. Every time something new comes out price gets dumped. Most investors are not interested in the technology and community...
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DarthPiggy
Newbie
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Activity: 14
Merit: 0
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August 17, 2014, 09:34:46 AM |
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Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet.
Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised.
Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized.
An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events
What is being traced? You have 1% chance of traced back to the one address. But that original address has no context. The coins for that address has itself been mixed. My original question was why are there different numbers of masternodes being chosen, in other words, 1, 2, etc.. rounds of mixing. the purpose of this question was I was wondering the speed of transaction involved. The answer was that "The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions." and a spreadsheet was given with the probability of de-anoning happening. So as I understand it, the spreadsheet is telling you the chance of a de-anon'd transaction. Is this incorrect? My main point here is why do I have to do many hops if it takes a long time? If I only have to do 1 hops, why is there an option for 2 hops? why not just always do 1 hops? I personally think anything more than 2 hops is overkill, unless the coins came from a personally identifiable source like an exchange with my real name on it. And it would just be silly to use your real name. I see, so the main problems would be when doing darkcoin linked to other goods such as bitcoins, or things which can be traceable through the mail or something.. or personal transactions with the coin.. if you are just transferring darkcoins from wallet to wallet then not a problem? Yes. That is my understanding. Thx for the discussion yeah it's like your cloakcoin but pow and not a pos rollback coin. it's trustless and your money can't be stolen by a man in the middle attack like in posa v1. also you don't have to worry about the federal gov tracking down the devs and shutting down your coin and losing all you money because people are using the onemarket thing to sell wacky tobacky. if you can't even sell weed on onemarket then what use is it? might as well just use openbazzar or darkmarket (no relation to darkcoin). I'd rather not talk about cloak on the drk thread however since I don't want to upset people - if you want to discuss the mathematics of the anonymity of a masternode based coin vs a fully decentralized coin, I'd be happy to start a completely new thread or you can start one and send me a pm to discuss.. If you want to discuss the pros / cons of one-market probably best to post it in the cloak thread ---even better post it to cloaktalk.org |
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MasterMined710
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1182
Merit: 1000
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August 17, 2014, 09:44:49 AM |
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getting ready to update my masternode wallet #2 to .31 and anonymize 1050+ drk on my win 8.1 machine. i was waiting for all bugs to be dealt with and it looks like everything is good for 99% of people.
ghostplayer tried to help me do the quick 5-10 minute mn update but it did not work and now we have to do it the hard way which according to gp means "new IP, new 1k address, new masternode genkey."
anything i should know before i update to .31?
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chaeplin
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August 17, 2014, 09:51:10 AM |
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He set 15000, the amount of rounds 1 is less than 15000, so all the -2 funds will go round 1 and then round 2 will start. What's your wallet status, camosoul ? |
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novaboy2k
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August 17, 2014, 09:52:37 AM |
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getting ready to update my masternode wallet #2 to .31 and anonymize 1050+ drk on my win 8.1 machine. i was waiting for all bugs to be dealt with and it looks like everything is good for 99% of people.
ghostplayer tried to help me do the quick 5-10 minute mn update but it did not work and now we have to do it the hard way which according to gp means "new IP, new 1k address, new masternode genkey."
anything i should know before i update to .31?
You wont "lose your coins", if thats what you want to know.  |
Darkcoin, the only fungible crypto currency.
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chaeplin
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August 17, 2014, 09:53:24 AM |
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Hello Everyone,
If you're running a larger than normal wallet and set "Amount to anonymize" to a really high amount, the client will prioritize money that has not been denominated, in effect denominating the entire amount ONCE (this could look like the round > 1 bug, but it's not). No input will reach 2 rounds before that amount is met. When the client detects you've reached the threshold you set, it will then start denominating round 2, then 3, etc.
From the looks of the thread all issues users are experiencing are not bugs at this point, just a misunderstanding of how Darksend works. All major bugs have been resolved and I'm going to move on to RC5 and other unique features of Darkcoin that we've had in the works for awhile (I'm going to wait till all of the weak hands have left the building then I have some really cool stuff to announce).
-Evan
ex1) Amount to anonymize : 1000   https://i.imgur.com/GRyMmNR.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/sVY9ov6.pngex2) Amount to anonymize : 50000   https://i.imgur.com/sxCuQSr.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/USlUvpQ.png |
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luke997
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August 17, 2014, 09:53:35 AM |
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The price is rising again, we're back to 0.0055
I actually think it is a good thing that the price has dropped like this because it shakes out all the weak hands that had unrealistic expectations and those that can't tell the difference between DRK, which is trying to reinvent the wheel, and other anon coins which are rife with problems or are merely adding trusted mixers to the blockchain. Once those "investors" are gone the coin will be in better shape. Plus the accumulation of stronger hands will concide with the tech being in better shape (compared to previous rallies) owing to all the work the devs and testers have put in. If you can get BTC ready fast enough this is the time to accumulate. I agree. Now the last weak hand we need to get rid of is camosol. He is a horrible, negative person. I hold him responsible for at least a few million in market cap decrease, by hijacking this thread with his repetitive negativity and aggression, just because some community members would not acknowledge his issue. This cry baby should really get over himself, the possible issue is tracked in JIRA and will be looked at. Camosol, please dump your coins and never come back. We don't want you. Your attitude belongs at cloakcoin. I will be more than happy to lose another million in market cap due to you dumping your coins. It's for the best of Darkcoin on the long run. Well said. He caused enough damage with his rumblings, he is useless. |
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McHammer
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August 17, 2014, 09:55:09 AM |
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dark killed me
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altcoincasinogulagshoppingshow FUD is good, look @altcoin prices ...
pls fud me hard via pm
id appriciate that.
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coins101
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
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August 17, 2014, 09:56:46 AM |
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I'd like to add. Just deposited my DRK back in my main wallet, it anonymized within 10 minutes. Pretty damn impressive...
Left mine all night. Lots of fees... Not denominated...  Now I'm being blocked from showing it, cute! Camosoul...I'm sure many of us here want to help...unfortunately I'm not techy enough to do so. doubleRR is a very good friend of mine and he's also concerned why your set up isn't working. I think the community should pool together and help figure out what is going on with your particular set up and what can be done to fix. I do not believe there is any conspiracy here. +101 Been travelling for a while. Any news on Camo? Can we replicate in testnet? Camosoul,....testnet to replicate and create debug log, or can you send one? What's the deal with you and allowing someone access with teamviewer? |
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MasterMined710
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1182
Merit: 1000
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August 17, 2014, 09:57:39 AM |
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dark killed me
i wish. i had to take you off ignore to see what you were rambling about. you're going back on ignore so no reply necessary or will be acknowledged. |
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coins101
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
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August 17, 2014, 09:58:21 AM |
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The price is rising again, we're back to 0.0055
I actually think it is a good thing that the price has dropped like this because it shakes out all the weak hands that had unrealistic expectations and those that can't tell the difference between DRK, which is trying to reinvent the wheel, and other anon coins which are rife with problems or are merely adding trusted mixers to the blockchain. Once those "investors" are gone the coin will be in better shape. Plus the accumulation of stronger hands will concide with the tech being in better shape (compared to previous rallies) owing to all the work the devs and testers have put in. If you can get BTC ready fast enough this is the time to accumulate. I agree. Now the last weak hand we need to get rid of is camosol. He is a horrible, negative person. I hold him responsible for at least a few million in market cap decrease, by hijacking this thread with his repetitive negativity and aggression, just because some community members would not acknowledge his issue. This cry baby should really get over himself, the possible issue is tracked in JIRA and will be looked at. Camosol, please dump your coins and never come back. We don't want you. Your attitude belongs at cloakcoin. I will be more than happy to lose another million in market cap due to you dumping your coins. It's for the best of Darkcoin on the long run. Well said. He caused enough damage with his rumblings, he is useless. what I have I missed...... |
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coins101
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
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August 17, 2014, 10:03:55 AM |
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Looking forward to the bounce.
Me too... If that bug is handled Monday, I'll be back to long hodl. If it's not, I'll just bail when I see a peak. I tried to put the issue out there, but this is worse than "patriotism." Some of these people would stab out their own eyes to avoid seeing what they don't want to see... Sorry for the dumb question, but I'm short on time, LOL, what bug was found please? Cuz it's you... I've been accused of being a troll for finding a problem that nobody wants to believe exists. DS+ just quits working when a wallet gets to an as-yet undetermined size. I've tested it by starting out with small amounts, sending in more... After several thousand in DRK is there, it just stops. No matter what I set it to denom, if the wallet gets big, it quits. It's not a matter of not finding a suitable pair, it doesn't even look... Just stops. It doesn't slow down, it just plain stops. No log data produced. Just sits there. No new addresses, nothing... DS+ stops. Initially, it used to loop fees and never increase denom depth... No idea why it changed behavior. I've also noticed that when I tell it to only denom 100drk or 50drk, it still breaks up chunks of 900... I sent Evan a screenshot of this. With small quantities it works great tho... I've had enough of the "people" here giving me shit about it. Almost everyone is on my ignore list at this point. Accusing me of trolling the price down to buy more... I don't see it as a reason to sell. If nothing is done about it and the trend of denial/insults extends further up the chain, then yeah, I'd probably sell... Since this is yet to be seen, I fail to see how I can be a troll for a motivation that has not yet occurred and doesn't suit my interests... Ah, you're on here too much, camo! It's not good for the soul! Too many trolls, and it's finally getting to you! Alas, you're not invincible! I'm having trouble as well. My wallet freezes on my win7/64bit machine. I have no idea what is wrong. Nobody else has the problem apparently and I've spent the last day and a half or so running diagnostics and malware scanners, etc... but can't find anything. I don't know what's wront, it makes connections, but the blockchain download is super slow and the wallet keeps going non-responsive. I'm trying to do a tutorial on how to use the wallet, but I can't use it myself! LOL. it does work on my Linux though, however, I want it to work on my windows, and since I have a problem, I think I need to figure it out. So yah, there are probably a few hiccups left in there. The guys really work it over on testnet, but there are no masternodes running old versions there, no miners running pre-masternode paying wallets, Though they tried, you still have to jump into the deep end of main net to find all the hiccups Hey, take a break from here, it's so depressing in here, watch a good movie instead (Just watched true Grit tonight  Great one!) The problems aren't what concern me. The refusal to acknowledge them and then the wave of douche bags that call me a liar... They're mad the price went down and want to scapegoat me. Do they really think I have so much influence that I can single-handedly kill DRK's value? Am I really so special and powerful? Then they tell me I'm an egotistical maniac when it's not my idea to pretend I'm magical... I'm not special, they are the ones who seem to think I have such powers... I expect there to be issues coming out of sterile testnet. I'd be suspicious if there weren't. The funniest trolls are the ones who think they can goad me into an emotional/panic decision and snatch up my bags cheap.... Lols on you losers! I'm not as stupid, or magical, as you pretend me to be... Whatever... I've got shit to do. There are people that count, and others that are Ignore......... |
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coinzcoinzcoinz
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August 17, 2014, 10:04:57 AM |
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I think the weak hands have all cashed out now, bottom was 0.005 BTC and trend reversal has kicked in. Not 100% sure, but fairly confident. This is where I start accumulating more DRK, just freed up 10 BTC. Price is likely to receive a further boost after Evan announces plan RC5 and beyond. I expect this will happen tomorrow, since he has probably taken the weekend off after all the hard work.
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MasterMined710
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1182
Merit: 1000
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August 17, 2014, 10:05:14 AM |
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few quick questions before i update.
1. did i see that rc4 would have 1000 preloaded addresses as opposed to 100 which is the normal with older versions and bitcoin?
2. if so people need to do a wallet back up after install.
3. also, is the new masternode voting system in rc4 just waiting to flip the spork switch or is that in rc 5?
4. will i have to update my mn again (in a 2-3 weeks?) when rc5 comes out.
thanks
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McHammer
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August 17, 2014, 10:07:40 AM |
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i'd assume this thread is bad for the price
again i dont understand whats going on and i dont want to read all that shit
i just know sth went wrong
haha PANIC
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altcoincasinogulagshoppingshow FUD is good, look @altcoin prices ...
pls fud me hard via pm
id appriciate that.
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novaboy2k
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August 17, 2014, 10:08:12 AM |
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few quick questions before i update.
1. did is see that rc4 would have 1000 preloaded addresses as opposed to 100 which is the normal with older versions and bitcoin?
2. if so people need to do a wallet back up after install.
3. also, is the new masternode voting system in rc4 just waiting to flip the spork switch or is that in rc 5?
4. will i have to update my mn again (in a 2-3 weeks?) when rc5 comes out.
thanks
A good question! Like a needle in a hay stack Sorry i can't answer |
Darkcoin, the only fungible crypto currency.
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