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Author Topic: Alternative Block Chains : be safe!  (Read 260882 times)
Gavin Andresen
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September 09, 2011, 01:21:18 PM
 #1

I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.


How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
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September 09, 2011, 01:48:36 PM
 #2

Thank you Gavin.

The only things I might add is that "use a different password" isn't limited to exchanges, but applies to forums, emails, and even pools Wink , and that some antivirus heuristics seem to hate anything that has mining code in it and isn't explicitly whitelisted.

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September 09, 2011, 02:08:16 PM
 #3

Also, don't believe everything that prominent members of the Bitcoin community have to say about alternative chains. In particular, I know some people think that the number of confirmations doesn't matter and all that matters is the total expected time of the confirmations, so that 1 10-minute-average confirmation is more secure than 3 3-minute-average confirmations. If you read Satoshi's paper it's clear this isn't true; the number of confirmations is actually more important because transaction security increases exponentially with more confirmations. (His paper has approximate figures; you'll notice that accepting 1 and 2-confirmation transactions is fairly risky.)

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September 09, 2011, 02:32:36 PM
 #4

Good advice.

Using an alternate cryptocurrency client would be a great way to get many people to install a hidden virus that targets Bitcoin users.

If you have a significant amount of Bitcoins, I wouldn't run other clients on the same computer until the alternates have developed trust over a longer period of time... I'm probably on the paranoid side of things though.

These new cryptocurrencies are interesting, and it will be fascinating to see how it will all play out. 

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September 09, 2011, 05:04:08 PM
 #5

Generally, if you have a large amount of bitcoins on a given PC, being extra-cautious about third party software (be it an Alt-coin client or a particularly fancy casual game) is advisable.

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September 09, 2011, 05:49:02 PM
 #6

Some people only have one computer and that must suck. Fortunately I have multiple so I can use some of my alt-miners to do this safely.

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September 09, 2011, 06:02:15 PM
 #7

You can have more than one wallet dat.

You just need 1 portable bitcoin client that can safely reside on an encrypted and backed up volume, and one regular one for day to day tiny stuff. It's not like you routinely send 5000+ BTC, no?

Incidentally, cobbling together a somewhat workable portable bitcoin is pretty straightforward.

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September 11, 2011, 07:06:19 PM
 #8


I would say you nailed this one bullseye with one shot. I think your real concern isn't our "safety" it's yours. Sooner or later one of these alt-chains are going to replace Bitcoin if Bitcoin doesn't do some seriously needed updating and improvements.

You know it, I know it and so does everyone else.

Sometimes the truth isn't all warm and fuzzy, sometimes it's just plain brutal.

I'd like to point out that there is no particular reason why several chains with different properties can't coexist.

For instance, there could be one well-established, reliable chain with only the most needed, most tested and most secure features, and a [pimp] fast-blocked, permanently experimental (sorta like TOR is always experimental forever  ) feature-rich one [/pimp] Wink, as well as dedicated-purpose chains like Namecoin and such.
Also, coins with different degrees of "necessary centralization" might exist, with userbase preference being driven by how comfortable they are with a given net's distribution of "powers that be"

Bitcoin, due to its prominence, has become "serious business". That necessitates a very conservative approach to development.

[pimp]That's why I started a fork with a more lighthearted approach to ... pretty much everything [/pimp] Wink

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September 12, 2011, 09:55:02 AM
 #9

Some people only have one computer and that must suck. Fortunately I have multiple so I can use some of my alt-miners to do this safely.

People with only one computer can still securely isolate different wallets & apps from each other by using privilege separation. For example on Linux, run bitcoin/namecoin/i0coin/etc under separate user accounts, and chmod 700 their home directories.
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September 12, 2011, 07:21:21 PM
 #10

Um, with all due respect, Artforz did not burn anyone's house down with lemons, and his actions have inflicted far less damage upon SolidCoin's credibility than CH's, let's say, questionable public relations escapades.

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September 12, 2011, 08:00:01 PM
 #11

It has long since become a tradition to only patch stuff up when an actual attack emerges, hence leading to emergence of a tradition to demonstrate the "seriousness" of attack.

While I personally would rather follow a different approach, this state of affairs is by no means limited to Bitcoin community or even IT in general, and is here to stay.

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September 12, 2011, 09:47:14 PM
 #12

I strongly agree. That's partly why I haven't messed with the alt chains. I even mentioned this on the announcement thread for lxcoin but it got drowned out with all the excitement about it.

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September 13, 2011, 09:51:56 AM
 #13

I'd like to remind everyone that Gavin, with all due respect, is not an angry   deity and can neither drown people he vaguely disapproves of nor feed them to the lo(l)custs.

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September 13, 2011, 08:07:59 PM
 #14

It has long since become a tradition to only patch stuff up when an actual attack emerges, hence leading to emergence of a tradition to demonstrate the "seriousness" of attack.

Yeah, especially when someone (CH/RS) dares you to go ahead and do it...


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September 13, 2011, 09:55:58 PM
 #15

One would think that someone who even tries to code knows to rather not say such things to programmers, lol Smiley

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September 14, 2011, 03:40:17 AM
 #16

...
Why not instead of making posts like this you take some adult leadership initiative and start cleaning up the toxic community that you are allowing to fester out here?  From your passive support through inaction of attacks on alt chains and now it is growing even wider.  You claim to have a thick skin as that is what it takes to lead projects like this, well it also takes a back bone.  You know as well as many of the people here that the alt coins provide much more to learn by being viable than having the community out attacking them.  Grow a pair and speak up, if there is one thing that will kill Bitcoin it is you and this community.  You have yet to condemn the attackers and you have yet to reign in the toxic community growing around Bitcoin, I surely hope your goals are not too see the whole project Blighted?  What would you think if you were a first time noob and came to see all this going on?  At some point people are going to start wondering if a gimpy blind retarded monkey could do a better job leading this project, why don't you start getting involved in the community, take a stance and be a leader, surround yourself with the right people to develop cryptocurrency and help foster an environment that will bring respectable businesses and users into the system.  At some point a leader has to step away from the technical details and stand up and be a leader.
LOL it's an open source project - there are no 'leaders' as you describe them.
No one can force anyone to do anything.

It's not some toxic community that you can clean up and you can't stop people from attacking the chains - though anyone with half an inkling of sense would realise that you can't stop that even in the closed source world Tongue

Try some adult thought beyond a gimpy lack of understanding of reality Smiley

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September 14, 2011, 09:56:14 PM
 #17

Although I don't think the fiasco with Namecoin is over and I do believe we have made it hard for BitcoinExpress.  With that said I looked into the block chain rewrite this is real and can be done while lagitamitly mining bitcoins.  This exploit is quite scary for Bitcoins as a person with 20% of the hash rate can write the block chain.

The good news is it can be fixed and Namecoin is a test of such fixes.

I would STRONGLY suggest you look into this Gavin.
Gavin Andresen
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September 14, 2011, 10:49:14 PM
 #18

I would STRONGLY suggest you look into this Gavin.

Relevant discussion on the bitcoin-dev mailing list is here:
  http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=28082081

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October 02, 2011, 08:29:22 PM
 #19

It's hard enough to get the half-baked alt chain software to run at all (and speed is of the essence knowing they are all quickly collapsing pyramids) never mind configuring a VM with appropriate hardware access.  Here are steps I've taken which I think are "good enough" to be advice -- it's worked for me for 4 shitcoin chains so far.

1.  Don't use Windows and pre-built .exes.  Just don't.  Ever.  Nothing inherently wrong with Microsoft software, but it is well understood and commonly used by the botnet types.  Staying out of the monoculture is a form of security by obscurity.
2.  Create a new account with no group membership.  I call mine "goatse" for obvious but nostalgic reasons.  Make absolutely sure that account doesn't have read or write access outside of their home directory.   Make doubly sure they can't read the raw hard drive device.
3.  Log out of your main account and into that account whenever compiling or running the alt chain software.  Remember that compilation & installation scripts are code!
4.  Do not browse exchange sites you have coinage in and definitely do not save passwords in the browser when logged in as this account.
5.  If you log into this account via ssh DO NOT enable X proxying.  It's trivial to read your keystrokes, do screen captures, etc when X is proxied.  Let me repeat this one, make sure X proxying is disabled.  If you can type 'xterm' and see it show up on your main account's screen you're vulnerable. 

And yes, I even follow this for official bitcoin software.  On a different account than "goatse" of course.

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October 02, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
 #20

Was there a documented case of malware propagation via this route, or is this more or less a "what if..." Infosec Comparative E-Masculinity thing Cheesy ?

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October 02, 2011, 08:45:14 PM
 #21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_horse_%28computing%29

Software trojans are definitely not a myth.  Has there been a bitcoin related one yet?  Absolutely!  I forget the name, but there was some wallet stealer Windows .exe that promised vastly higher hash rates.   It uploaded wallets to an FTP site instead.
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October 02, 2011, 08:49:25 PM
 #22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_horse_%28computing%29

Software trojans are definitely not a myth.  Has there been a bitcoin related one yet?  Absolutely!  I forget the name, but there was some wallet stealer Windows .exe that promised vastly higher hash rates.   It uploaded wallets to an FTP site instead.


No, I mean a documented case of malware propagating through distribution of alt-chains specifically ?

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October 02, 2011, 08:53:33 PM
 #23

AFAIK, the closest we have is that fake miner.  If you think of it as mining a bogus, non-existent vapor coin chain then yes, it qualifies.

If a technological feat is possible, man will do it. Almost as if it's wired into the core of our being.  And an alt chain mining trojan feat is not just possible but borderline trivial.  Not having happened in the 4 or 5 alt chains so far is just pure luck.



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October 02, 2011, 08:57:15 PM
 #24

If a technological feat is possible, man will do it.  Almost as if it's wired into the core of our being.

touche Cheesy

I like your style.

And an alt chain mining trojan feat is not just possible but borderline trivial.  Not having happened in the 4 or 5 alt chains so far is just pure luck.

Nah, more like this entire funny hobby of making funny alt chains  is just a really small hobby which srz bzns hackers just overlook.

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October 02, 2011, 09:08:16 PM
 #25

Are you sure about that?  What's a network of a few thousand high end machines with great network connectivity, on 24x7, insensitive to CPU or GPU load worth?  Doubly so with some having the keys to a few hundred to a few thousand dollars of electronic currency?

I'd say quite a bit.  It's only a matter of time -- if a big enough % of the bitcoin community is willing to download and run windows exes for every alt currency that comes along all you need is a hijacked forum account of a regular to pull it off.

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October 02, 2011, 09:12:28 PM
 #26

Mayhaps, mayhaps.

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October 02, 2011, 09:21:48 PM
 #27

Some people only have one computer and that must suck.

Fortunately a few decades ago they invented virtual machines. Now anyone can have as many computers and OSs as he likes Smiley

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October 02, 2011, 11:10:27 PM
 #28

vmware is so hard to use Sad

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October 02, 2011, 11:45:08 PM
 #29

vmware is so hard to use Sad

No it's not it's the easiest product unless you are talking about VSphere.
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October 03, 2011, 06:56:37 AM
 #30

vmware is so hard to use Sad

Virtualbox is pretty easy and works great. Its also free.

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October 04, 2011, 08:20:53 AM
 #31

GPU virtualization is still pretty experimental. Most VMs virtualize some old crap GPU by default. To get hardware access to your actual GPU, in Virtualbox there is an option to do that and it works, sometimes, somewhat. TBH, I havent tried GPU mining in a VM yet, I have used it for CPU mining and then VMs are trivial. Anyone got GPU mining to work in a VM?

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October 04, 2011, 12:33:01 PM
 #32

GPU virtualization is still pretty experimental. Most VMs virtualize some old crap GPU by default. To get hardware access to your actual GPU, in Virtualbox there is an option to do that and it works, sometimes, somewhat. TBH, I havent tried GPU mining in a VM yet, I have used it for CPU mining and then VMs are trivial. Anyone got GPU mining to work in a VM?

Working on it in vSphere 5, I feel I am close to getting it to work.
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October 06, 2011, 03:24:21 AM
 #33

Guys, there is no point in GPU-mining in VMs!

Alternative chains with GPU-based miners are compatible with standard (trusted) miners that don't need to be virtualized. This means you only need to run the (untrusted) alternative chain app in a VM, and expose its RPC port to the network where the physical miners are running...
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October 07, 2011, 04:41:38 PM
 #34

Thanks Mr. Andresen, but I'm only running alternative clients in VMs (I'm basically selling all alt. coins for BTC asap  Cheesy)
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October 27, 2011, 05:17:04 PM
 #35

BitcoinEXpress has 100.000+ of BTC. Everybody should consider this when reading BCX's comments about alt-chains  Grin
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February 20, 2012, 01:28:01 AM
 #36

LOL linus - now that would be funny Smiley

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July 08, 2012, 06:44:27 AM
 #37

Were really supposed the build the entire thing from source, not use windows and run it in a VM just to use an alt-coin safely? Are we supposed to audit the code ourselves too?

I dont think many people are going to do that just to use an alt-chain, and I think many of the alt-chains are safe enough, ie... Litecoin and Namecoin... I wouldnt bother...

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July 17, 2012, 12:39:50 PM
 #38

I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

LOL. Paranoid. First of all that has nothing to do with 'fear of bitcoin/altcoin/jokecoin/scamcoin'. That's standard Inner Tube safety.
If you have to mention those issues, your audience isn't tall enough for this ride.

Quote
I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

That sounds like a procedure for both evaluating and IMPROVING. I still fail to see the need to mention of the 'fear factor'. Not calling you FUDmonkey, but this is kind of standard isn't it or should we require an internet driver's license?

Quote
If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

This is where we're playing games with psychology or at least it can seem so. There's a lot of ppl with internet war stories talking about scams without context (exception silly coin from the hunter of the RealSilly).

Quote
If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.

More boilerplate advice. It's good stuff for noobs, but come on are we still in 1990?

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July 17, 2012, 11:04:14 PM
 #39

Was there one except LTC that wasn't a pure scam?

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November 23, 2012, 01:39:11 AM
 #40

Was there one except LTC that wasn't a pure scam?

LTC was either scam or folly. Remember, undisclosed ability to mine with GPUs... No other additional features except the one surrounding the scam/folly.

As acknowledged by insane critics such as LukeJr, The only legitimate altcoin is PPCoin.




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November 23, 2012, 07:07:15 AM
 #41

Was there one except LTC that wasn't a pure scam?

LTC was either scam or folly. Remember, undisclosed ability to mine with GPUs... No other additional features except the one surrounding the scam/folly.

As acknowledged by insane critics such as LukeJr, The only legitimate altcoin is PPCoin.





Proof or STFU.  Cheesy

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November 23, 2012, 07:43:28 PM
 #42

Was there one except LTC that wasn't a pure scam?

LTC was either scam or folly. Remember, undisclosed ability to mine with GPUs... No other additional features except the one surrounding the scam/folly.

As acknowledged by insane critics such as LukeJr, The only legitimate altcoin is PPCoin.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.  - David Hume

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November 24, 2012, 08:08:56 AM
 #43


Proof or STFU.  Cheesy
Was there one except LTC that wasn't a pure scam?

LTC was either scam or folly. Remember, undisclosed ability to mine with GPUs... No other additional features except the one surrounding the scam/folly.

As acknowledged by insane critics such as LukeJr, The only legitimate altcoin is PPCoin.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.  - David Hume


In this case, I am opting for STFU. We will have to wait for the results of the experiments for more evidence.

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December 17, 2012, 06:21:49 AM
 #44

Why can't any number of alt chains and Bitcoin all get along? There are numerous fiat currencies in the world, from the Swiss Franc to the Singapore dollar. The way we handle them is by exchange rates (duh). Bitcoin, Litecoin and possibly hundreds or thousands of others can all live in the same world and be traded in the future. Why couldn't there be as many crypto-currencies as their are stocks traded on global exchanges? There can be, if you ask me. And as with stocks, people will have to examine the merits of each one individually and decide which ones are worth "investing" in. In fact, I think it's better this way. Newer and better types of currency can replace the old and an ultra-modern economy can flourish without the need for centralized fiat currencies.  Smiley

That being said, I'm actually speculating on exchange rates between alternate cryptos, Bitcoin and fiat currencies... I'm a FOREX trader, so I can't help myself. If I told you what I was doing you might think it a "high-stakes gamble", but I'm not risking what I can't afford to lose and the payoff could be huge. I do the same sort of thing with risky S&P 500 and VIX futures/options, so why not crypto currencies? If you know what you're doing, speculation pays... Cool

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December 17, 2012, 07:05:05 PM
 #45

Why can't any number of alt chains and Bitcoin all get along? There are numerous fiat currencies in the world, from the Swiss Franc to the Singapore dollar. The way we handle them is by exchange rates (duh). Bitcoin, Litecoin and possibly hundreds or thousands of others can all live in the same world and be traded in the future. Why couldn't there be as many crypto-currencies as their are stocks traded on global exchanges? There can be, if you ask me. And as with stocks, people will have to examine the merits of each one individually and decide which ones are worth "investing" in. In fact, I think it's better this way. Newer and better types of currency can replace the old and an ultra-modern economy can flourish without the need for centralized fiat currencies.  Smiley

That being said, I'm actually speculating on exchange rates between alternate cryptos, Bitcoin and fiat currencies... I'm a FOREX trader, so I can't help myself. If I told you what I was doing you might think it a "high-stakes gamble", but I'm not risking what I can't afford to lose and the payoff could be huge. I do the same sort of thing with risky S&P 500 and VIX futures/options, so why not crypto currencies? If you know what you're doing, speculation pays... Cool
The first simple problem needs to solve is Trust.
Fiat currencies backed by government of any country, which print(makes) them.
Bitcoin is not backed by anyone, except the developers, miners & this forum for some extent.
& most of the trusted members showed their true face, which was ugly.
Trust needs more time to evolve.

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December 29, 2012, 10:02:02 PM
 #46

the reason FIAt currencies kind of get along (ignoring the many wards between countries) is because they have their own clearly defined consumer base of users. separated by country borders but allowed to trade across those borders.

the problem with alternative crypto currencies is that we all belong to the same.. well, virtual country. all fighting for the same population base of 150k average users. there's no clear niche markets that separate the different currencies.

this is why i think bitcoin should remain in the non regulated, anonymous, illegal trade business predominantly, thus avoid any threat that it will ever become regulated.

and allow litecoin which has not got the same anonymity desires, to become a more regulated currency to go mainstream. basically make bitcoin the amsterdam currency for all its porn/drugs and fire arms. and litecoin the virtual equivelent to GBP/USD

bitcoin is fighting itself to go mainstream yet its main users dont want the mainstream regulations that come with it.. so why change its main purpose. allow other alt currencies like litecoin to do the main stream stuff.. and then traders can use the exchanges to dip in and out of the differing territories.

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December 30, 2012, 07:14:44 AM
 #47

the reason FIAt currencies kind of get along (ignoring the many wards between countries) is because they have their own clearly defined consumer base of users. separated by country borders but allowed to trade across those borders.

the problem with alternative crypto currencies is that we all belong to the same.. well, virtual country. all fighting for the same population base of 150k average users. there's no clear niche markets that separate the different currencies.

this is why i think bitcoin should remain in the non regulated, anonymous, illegal trade business predominantly, thus avoid any threat that it will ever become regulated.

and allow litecoin which has not got the same anonymity desires, to become a more regulated currency to go mainstream. basically make bitcoin the amsterdam currency for all its porn/drugs and fire arms. and litecoin the virtual equivelent to GBP/USD

bitcoin is fighting itself to go mainstream yet its main users dont want the mainstream regulations that come with it.. so why change its main purpose. allow other alt currencies like litecoin to do the main stream stuff.. and then traders can use the exchanges to dip in and out of the differing territories.

Major bitcoin investors/early adopters dont want the status quoto change, hence all the hating on alt chains.

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December 30, 2012, 09:48:03 AM
 #48

this is why i think bitcoin should remain in the non regulated, anonymous, illegal trade business predominantly, thus avoid any threat that it will ever become regulated.

and allow litecoin which has not got the same anonymity desires, to become a more regulated currency to go mainstream. basically make bitcoin the amsterdam currency for all its porn/drugs and fire arms. and litecoin the virtual equivelent to GBP/USD
why doesn't litecoin have the same anonymity desires? they "seem" almost identical

i can only expect that once the regulations kick in, they will affect ALL coins. currently AML seems to be the only regulation that really gets enforced. but more will follow

Major bitcoin investors/early adopters dont want the status quoto change, hence all the hating on alt chains.
from a technical view, these alt coins provide a great way to real-world test new technologies (in a way testnet cannot). successes can then be implemented back into btc. seems like a win-win

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February 23, 2013, 10:36:47 AM
 #49

Why can't any number of alt chains and Bitcoin all get along? There are numerous fiat currencies in the world, from the Swiss Franc to the Singapore dollar. The way we handle them is by exchange rates (duh). Bitcoin, Litecoin and possibly hundreds or thousands of others can all live in the same world and be traded in the future. Why couldn't there be as many crypto-currencies as their are stocks traded on global exchanges? There can be, if you ask me. And as with stocks, people will have to examine the merits of each one individually and decide which ones are worth "investing" in. In fact, I think it's better this way. Newer and better types of currency can replace the old and an ultra-modern economy can flourish without the need for centralized fiat currencies.  Smiley

That being said, I'm actually speculating on exchange rates between alternate cryptos, Bitcoin and fiat currencies... I'm a FOREX trader, so I can't help myself. If I told you what I was doing you might think it a "high-stakes gamble", but I'm not risking what I can't afford to lose and the payoff could be huge. I do the same sort of thing with risky S&P 500 and VIX futures/options, so why not crypto currencies? If you know what you're doing, speculation pays... Cool

Because we have one planet, so far.

The multitude of currencies is because of the multitude of countries that force them to issue their own national currency, but that has been changing with the evolution of free trade areas and further evolution in the creation of monetary unions, which further reduced the number of currencies in circulation: namely the Euro, which ended up replacing 17 currencies in Europe. Central and West Africa have Economic and Monetary Union, which comprises 14 countries in Africa using CFA francs. The North American Union, proposing a new currency the Amero for Canada, US and Mexico (not implemented yet), and soon the Sucre currency for the Alba, replacing 8 currencies.
It is an evolutionary trend, the better the interrelationships, more common markets, more economic unions and more monetary unions, implies less national currencies we'll have in the future. In short, this world is becoming globalized.

Bitcoin doesn't belong to any country nor region, it is global by default.
It is unnecessary to have many digital currencies when they don't have a clear differentiating purpose.
Let me remind you the purpose of money: a medium of exchange, a unit of account, a store of value.

If you are cheering the creation of alternative cryptocurrencies solely for speculation, then such currency is sterile from the get go.
That's when we'll have our first tulipmania and we will ALL suffer, even the BTC will take a hit damaging the reputation that has been building painstakingly.
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March 14, 2013, 01:55:02 AM
 #50

Thank you Gavin.

The only things I might add is that "use a different password" isn't limited to exchanges, but applies to forums, emails, and even pools Wink , and that some antivirus heuristics seem to hate anything that has mining code in it and isn't explicitly whitelisted.

Having different and strong password on each site can be achieved by only one method: using a master password like lastpass. And master password is a huge security risk. To access a low-security site you need to put at risk all of your data. If a keylogger gets your master password, all your bases immediately belong to the hacker. Yes, there is 2factor auth, but I bet 99% of master password users dont have it.
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March 19, 2013, 03:23:40 AM
 #51

Thank you Gavin.

The only things I might add is that "use a different password" isn't limited to exchanges, but applies to forums, emails, and even pools Wink , and that some antivirus heuristics seem to hate anything that has mining code in it and isn't explicitly whitelisted.

Having different and strong password on each site can be achieved by only one method: using a master password like lastpass. And master password is a huge security risk. To access a low-security site you need to put at risk all of your data. If a keylogger gets your master password, all your bases immediately belong to the hacker. Yes, there is 2factor auth, but I bet 99% of master password users dont have it.

OAuth +1
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April 07, 2013, 05:25:57 AM
 #52

Having two different passwords for each alt-coin or website isn't that hard. You could do all the generating on an offline computer (where you probably have your offline transaction signing bitcoin client, like Armory).

All new passwords for new websites, get to be typed by hand. 12 to 16 characters ought to be enough for a start, then when you get more serious about it, you can extend your password or passphrase length.

I consider my office desk and my home table secure enough that I can write down whatever password I needed on paper. Offline. Or, as Bruce Schneier says, stick it in your real life wallet.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_your.html

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April 11, 2013, 05:19:33 PM
 #53

vmware is so hard to use Sad

Virtualbox is pretty easy and works great. Its also free.

I use virtualbox

I try to be respectful and informed.
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April 16, 2013, 05:35:42 PM
 #54

I personally use LastPass but my password for LastPass is a 20 character random pass with symbols included so I highly doubt it will be getting cracked very easily.

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April 17, 2013, 01:35:06 AM
 #55

I personally use LastPass but my password for LastPass is a 20 character random pass with symbols included so I highly doubt it will be getting cracked very easily.
Unless someone finds where you wrote it down Smiley

Or ... http://xkcd.com/538/

... or you forget it coz it is 'random' ... if it is random, then your memory is clearly good enough to not bother using any storage for passwords Tongue

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April 17, 2013, 01:57:42 AM
 #56

I did have to keep it on a notepad for the first few days but after that I memorized it and it is only in my head.

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May 03, 2013, 03:08:47 PM
 #57

Great advice, thank you, I was looking at getting into some newer cryptocurrencies and wanted to make sure that I would stay safe and couldn't get Trojans or other viruses from it.
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May 05, 2013, 02:21:43 AM
 #58

Thanks for the heads up!
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May 06, 2013, 10:24:24 PM
 #59

Guys, there is no point in GPU-mining in VMs!

Alternative chains with GPU-based miners are compatible with standard (trusted) miners that don't need to be virtualized. This means you only need to run the (untrusted) alternative chain app in a VM, and expose its RPC port to the network where the physical miners are running...

Could you please expand on this bit more? (I'm pretty new to VirtualBox) I set up VirtualBox with Windows 7 in a host OS that's Windows 8. The windows 8 machine is my miner and I can't figure out how to get the config to point my solomine to my CHNcoin wallet on the Guest OS.  When I go to ipconfig on the VirtualBox it has an ipv6 address and an ipv4 address that is 10.x.x.x (there are numbers where the x's are). So in my conf file when I run my CHN coin wallet as server do I use the rpcallowip as the 10.x.x.x address and then set my cgminer to point to that as my url?  Will I have to configure anything else in VirtualBox to let the miner through to the ports?
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May 07, 2013, 02:33:15 AM
 #60

If anybody is reading this and also wants to solo mine with virtual box for safety I used this and it worked.

Many alt-coin/modded/patched clients are very interesting but less than fully trustworthy,
and VirtualBox has no good GPU support.

So, for solo mining the miner should run on the physical host machine and connect to the client
in the virtual machine, via "virtual box port forwarding".
Expert level manuals are easy to find, but is there a simple step-by-step howto for beginners?


Very short version would be like:

-Miner: connect to localhost 127.0.0.1 and to some unused port xxxx.

-VBox network settings (for this virtual machine): networking mode: NAT (default)
                                            port forwarding: host IP <empty>
                                                                    host port <the unused port xxxx>
                                                                    guest IP <empty>
                                                                    guest port <the actual rpc port>

-in config file for client in guest machine: rpcallowip=*

This should do it. Guest firewall (in its default state, tested on Linux mint and Win7) is mostly harmless.


The asterisk in rpcallowip is literal. In the conf file put that exactly with the asterisk.
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May 08, 2013, 05:06:33 PM
 #61

necromancers...
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May 09, 2013, 05:50:58 PM
 #62

Most of the new coins coming out daily are created by ignorant developers. Now that's scary.

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May 11, 2013, 12:42:27 PM
 #63

A lot of these coins are just pump and dump.

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May 11, 2013, 01:39:10 PM
 #64

A lot of these coins are just pump and dump.
Which ones aren't? Tongue

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May 15, 2013, 03:40:14 PM
 #65

Very good advise here, even though I don't believe on using alternative currencies to Bitcoin.


There are a number of virtual programs which can be installed for free, and they are also safe and pretty reliable.
Also very easy to setup, google on how to setup. It takes no longer than 5 minutes.

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May 25, 2013, 11:55:26 AM
 #66

I think FTC had a block chain split from a 51% attack around block 33,000. No slow block rate from the high diff helped the attacker.
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May 26, 2013, 04:12:36 PM
 #67

A lot of these coins are just pump and dump.
Which ones aren't? Tongue

What is your opinion on Bytecoin, released on April 1?


I try to be respectful and informed.
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May 26, 2013, 10:29:34 PM
 #68

A lot of these coins are just pump and dump.
Which ones aren't? Tongue

What is your opinion on Bytecoin, released on April 1?

"April 1" Smiley

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June 13, 2013, 01:31:53 AM
 #69

Thanks Gavin!

That is great advice and it includes the absolute basic measures that everyone should take. Since we are connecting right to someones server anything could happen. Well, not "anything". Im not going  to start mining and open an inter-dimensional portal.

This advice is especially prescient now that we see "the newest alt coin is here!" 20 times per day. (btw, is there a way to stop people from creating thousands of altcoins? I have been trying to just ridicule them but it is barely slowing them down)

Thanks again

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June 14, 2013, 10:09:44 AM
 #70

thank you

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June 15, 2013, 11:26:31 PM
 #71

I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:lots of fishy

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.


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June 26, 2013, 10:13:00 PM
 #72

look at Bytecoin a byte is bigger than a bit following that line of reasoning~hmm name dat remix?..thanks


EDIT : Lmao! looks like this is the BTE thread after reading haaa

HELP ON THE WAY!--->http://www.soldierx.com*_-/\-_"ASICMINER"_-\/-_USB_BLOCK_ERUPTERS_>>*___ 2_BTC___*6/30/2013>>>
_o-\(*)v(*)/-o===>_[]_-P.M.-/or\-E:mail-_[]_>> spacebloomer@yahoo.com ***_+_Blessed!_+_***
>>_"BTCecause It's There" Network_>>: 1Fxbp8KDEME3Rhfo3yp1DABnn2t7VoRAut :<<*Tips jar*
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July 05, 2013, 03:02:17 AM
 #73

thank you
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August 07, 2013, 03:28:11 AM
 #74

I think these are perfectly legitimate concerns actually but the way I found out whether Bitcoin wasn't a scam and the way I find out anything else isn't a scam is this:

. Is it open source? If it's open source then that means people will be able to look at the code and find anything suspicious or even help to improve it if the developer is unwilling, it's very difficult to plant something bad if people can investigate it with a microscope

. Are the stores that are supportive of it just subsidiaries of the person who made the currency? Or are they independent and have accepted it willingly? This is usually a good sign that it has some actual worth, because they must have been convinced by something about the coin to accept it right?

. Does the developer regularly post updates or comments, do they chat and argue with other developers or users? Usually another good sign that the currency is going places and not just a con, if they just post it and abandon it for ages then chances are they're just looking for someone to click on the links

. Does the developer have a programming background? Have they done anything aside from this currency they've made? If they have, chances are they'll have the understanding of the source code needed to update and change it if bugs and glitches come out, they'll also usually have more respect for other peoples computers if they already work for a legitimate company

If you are an Anarchist/Libertarian Cheesy :

. Does the currency have no ties to the current aristocracy, government or financial system? If so there's probably a better chance of it being legitimate than just a way to manipulate peoples wealth
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August 08, 2013, 02:16:56 PM
 #75

I think these are perfectly legitimate concerns actually but the way I found out whether Bitcoin wasn't a scam and the way I find out anything else isn't a scam is this:

. Is it open source? If it's open source then that means people will be able to look at the code and find anything suspicious or even help to improve it if the developer is unwilling, it's very difficult to plant something bad if people can investigate it with a microscope


Be careful here. As a coder, I can hide some pretty fancy run time code that calls a script from a server that can update with malicious intentions.

Or if I am really lazy, I can have an open source on git, but a private one that I compile from with the bad code.
You are not protected on most of these, the laziness of the stupid people copying/pasting the new alt-coins is the only thing that is protecting you.

If a group with the education/willfulness somewhat smarter then the average 15 year old coder decided to reek havoc on all of the folks that race to mine the alt-coin on launch; the damage wouldn't be measurable.

Thought experiment:
Pre-announce alt-coin
On release link to source on git. Publish a binary with hidden code.
Include code in binary to copy all wallet files from all altcoins traded on cryptsy.
On the server that the wallets are uploaded to, run a test to see if it is encrypted.
For unencrypted wallets send the coins to cryptsy/coins-e wallet and sell for btc/ltc.
Have code self-patch to remove the function call.
...
Wait a few months, rinse and repeat.


The above project can be done by anyone with coding experience in a matter of days.  You are not protected, please start being somewhat cautious.
 

HTH.
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August 12, 2013, 02:47:22 AM
 #76

Just out of interest was there any any coin/mining tool infected here in past?

I knew few ppl that lost coins from Gox, BTC-e and they were "careful", even gmail verification have not helped, but i bet many mined alt crap

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August 25, 2013, 01:20:32 PM
 #77

Just out of interest was there any any coin/mining tool infected here in past?

I knew few ppl that lost coins from Gox, BTC-e and they were "careful", even gmail verification have not helped, but i bet many mined alt crap

I've never heard of any real trojans or viruses in wallet releases yet. It seems walletstealers in coin.exes are a myth, propagated by false negatives from antivirus software.


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August 31, 2013, 11:24:21 AM
 #78

I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.



Multi-factor authentication for all please. Yubikey+Password, Cellphone+Password, Smartcard+Password, Biometric+Password.

Never trust a site which wants you to use a password alone. Never trust your keyboard or your operating system. Biometric hardware wallets will become increasingly important for security of crypto-finance in the future and I wish there were more robust hardware and API's for it.

I know Bitcoin is intending to support two-factor authentication but please consider supporting the latest biometric technology as well due to the ease of use factor.
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August 31, 2013, 11:30:18 AM
 #79

Good advice.

Using an alternate cryptocurrency client would be a great way to get many people to install a hidden virus that targets Bitcoin users.

If you have a significant amount of Bitcoins, I wouldn't run other clients on the same computer until the alternates have developed trust over a longer period of time... I'm probably on the paranoid side of things though.

These new cryptocurrencies are interesting, and it will be fascinating to see how it will all play out.  

Ultimately someone should probably release a product, some hardware such as a thumb drive with an OS which runs in as a virtual machine and sell it to people. Then they just plug it in and install the latest alt-coin for testing. The thumb drive should also include biometric authentication and generate a one time password.

It would be the perfect hardware wallet in my opinion. No remembering passwords. You wouldn't even necessarily have to worry about losing the hardware wallet because the actual wallet could be backed up to the cloud or internet and downloaded again as it would be authenticated by your biometric signature which will not change even if you were to lose the device. It would be a combination of a Yubikey, 16-32GB hardware encrypted solid state drive, and finger vein recognition biometric authentication. Push one button and it backs up all your coins to your email, or to the cloud. Put your finger into the slot, enter the 4 digit pin, and you can make a transaction.

The reason for the pin is because someone might try to steal your money while you're asleep. Something you know, something you have, something you are.
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November 16, 2013, 09:19:01 AM
 #80

Some people only have one computer and that must suck. Fortunately I have multiple so I can use some of my alt-miners to do this safely.

Virtual machines ftw
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November 16, 2013, 02:11:52 PM
 #81

It is not wrong to be conservative. The possibility is that people miss a lot of fun and chances of profit by adopting this attitude. Specifically, it is right not to install risky software on real personal computer.

[/quote]

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Quote

Code:
[center][url=https://www.lescoin.io]LESCOIN  //  Lescoin-the first crypto-currency secured by wood stock[/url]
[url=https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-o5okWW3V3tRlZUbWxhVGg4NjA/edit]Whitepaper[/url] ¦[url=https://www.facebook.com/DAO-Lescoin-270668693421364/] Facebook[/url] ¦ [url=https://twitter.com/DAO_Lescoin]Twitter[/url] ¦ [url=https://t.me/lescoin]Telegram[/url]
[url=https://www.lescoin.io/]-- - -- - ---- -----        DAO Lescoin  ? 18 September, 2017        ----- ---- - -- - --[/url][/center]
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November 22, 2013, 06:48:00 AM
 #82

I agree with this completely. I have a computer that I was given that I use for nothing but altcoin mining.

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December 04, 2013, 07:35:51 AM
 #83

in the last month alone i have seen two new altcoins posted with a trojan / keylogger
a well known coin by a well known coin spammer and coin cloner for hire also added one to his last wallet version..
so yeah they are out in force !

the guy mentioned earlier how easy it would be and he's right..

a lot of thee guy don't even make the coins.. and often they get premined as they are delivered

the more you dig the more you find.. there is no limit to the scummy greedy behavior in this scene

i today found yet another fake malware bundle uploaded to torrent sites..
some guy has been at it hard.. i have flagged about 6 uploads he has done (all Bitcoin related or Altcoin related) last few months

and miners are commonly flagged as malware by AV software and rightfully so because the code may be clean but its bundled with malware
and has been for years.. the two most popular things for malware coders these days is to infect you to jack your machine for mining or just steal wallets
or even to get Facebook likes.

so yeah i could go on and on forever citing examples but who cares ?

maybe rather than posting stupid little stickied warnings the admins here could expose the little pricks doing it..
after all they should be able to see they are being posted from the same ip's (many of these guys prob have a 100 accounts here)
all they do is lock and delete the topic.. and let the douches keep doing it

FUD first & ask questions later™
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December 07, 2013, 01:12:09 PM
 #84

as long as there is the source code, they are safe

THE FUTURE OF
REAL ESTATE
..

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December 14, 2013, 02:53:53 AM
 #85

Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
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December 22, 2013, 09:36:21 PM
 #86

in the last month alone i have seen two new altcoins posted with a trojan / keylogger
a well known coin by a well known coin spammer and coin cloner for hire also added one to his last wallet version..
so yeah they are out in force !

the guy mentioned earlier how easy it would be and he's right..

a lot of thee guy don't even make the coins.. and often they get premined as they are delivered

the more you dig the more you find.. there is no limit to the scummy greedy behavior in this scene

i today found yet another fake malware bundle uploaded to torrent sites..
some guy has been at it hard.. i have flagged about 6 uploads he has done (all Bitcoin related or Altcoin related) last few months

and miners are commonly flagged as malware by AV software and rightfully so because the code may be clean but its bundled with malware
and has been for years.. the two most popular things for malware coders these days is to infect you to jack your machine for mining or just steal wallets
or even to get Facebook likes.

so yeah i could go on and on forever citing examples but who cares ?

maybe rather than posting stupid little stickied warnings the admins here could expose the little pricks doing it..
after all they should be able to see they are being posted from the same ip's (many of these guys prob have a 100 accounts here)
all they do is lock and delete the topic.. and let the douches keep doing it

Wow I didn't realize things were that bad in the altcoin scene. Would be great to have a thread that exposes scammy behavior so people are aware of the known tricks.
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poolinat0r.com - OP


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December 23, 2013, 08:38:12 AM
 #87

Thank you for creating this topic. Its very helpfull for new members like me  Smiley
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December 25, 2013, 11:28:01 PM
 #88

in the last month alone i have seen two new altcoins posted with a trojan / keylogger
a well known coin by a well known coin spammer and coin cloner for hire also added one to his last wallet version..
so yeah they are out in force !

the guy mentioned earlier how easy it would be and he's right..

a lot of thee guy don't even make the coins.. and often they get premined as they are delivered

the more you dig the more you find.. there is no limit to the scummy greedy behavior in this scene

i today found yet another fake malware bundle uploaded to torrent sites..
some guy has been at it hard.. i have flagged about 6 uploads he has done (all Bitcoin related or Altcoin related) last few months

and miners are commonly flagged as malware by AV software and rightfully so because the code may be clean but its bundled with malware
and has been for years.. the two most popular things for malware coders these days is to infect you to jack your machine for mining or just steal wallets
or even to get Facebook likes.

so yeah i could go on and on forever citing examples but who cares ?

maybe rather than posting stupid little stickied warnings the admins here could expose the little pricks doing it..
after all they should be able to see they are being posted from the same ip's (many of these guys prob have a 100 accounts here)
all they do is lock and delete the topic.. and let the douches keep doing it


I wish you'd be more specific about which clients have malware or trojans on them. Like for example off this site which ones if any?

http://coinmarketcap.com/



 
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December 29, 2013, 04:15:25 PM
 #89


3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.


Does anyone has a few tips to do this? As most of the people here probably don't understand the source code well I guess.

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http://www.coinsmanager.com/


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January 01, 2014, 07:00:49 AM
 #90

Damn, I've been installing a lot of new wallets those past days, and now I feel silly... I've lost myself in the fever of new coins and giveaways, and my computer could be infected by a scam coin...
Will have to clean all that soon Sad Thanks for the tips !

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January 20, 2014, 10:11:45 PM
 #91

Is the zipped doge blockchain download link below OK, or has anyone heard anything dodgy about it? I am just a noob asking the experts.

http://doge.rstreefland.com/
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January 27, 2014, 01:12:22 PM
 #92

as long as there is the source code, they are safe

Doesn't matter when most people don't even check the source code.
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February 02, 2014, 03:05:08 PM
 #93

exactly !
and sometimes such as CENT, it was posted with no updated source code and a keylogger was added to it..
see this
https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/824864222d7d7997ce4b7f6dc2d289b9764185d2f8a0c9d8a0e3b89743aba86c/analysis/1391352958/
that is the last CENT wallet that dev Shakezulu posted at his own web site with no updated source code and he later removed all traces of it of course
and the guy has released TONS of other coins and is good buddies with Cryptsy staff etc
back room "scammer" buddies lol

i would just try and stay away until more skilled guys can vouch for it being clean or maybe try running the wallet in a Virtual machine ?
your taking a serious risk downloading and running a Wallet.exe that was just posted..
the risk is rather obvious but if you have numerous accounts and other wallets we have seen malware posted that steals coins from many wallets, so be careful.

although no one cares it would seem, i myself ask one thing first when a new coin comes along..
WHO MADE IT ?
If it's a user with a name that match's the coin.. i pass on it.
There is no real reason for cowards to hide who they are.
And i will not support these *handful of coin spammers that want to change their user names and
update the coin name and icon and re-upload a Brand new currencies every few minutes..

Doge, Cat, Moose, Rat, Pig, Elephant, Squirrel, Snake COOOOIIIINNNNN FTW

much yes ?

uhhh, much dumb.... yes

FUD first & ask questions later™
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February 08, 2014, 01:44:33 AM
 #94

This is a very good writeup!
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February 13, 2014, 09:49:07 PM
 #95

I think blockchain is good with people use it.
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February 17, 2014, 12:38:51 AM
 #96

I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.



Multi-factor authentication for all please. Yubikey+Password, Cellphone+Password, Smartcard+Password, Biometric+Password.

Never trust a site which wants you to use a password alone. Never trust your keyboard or your operating system. Biometric hardware wallets will become increasingly important for security of crypto-finance in the future and I wish there were more robust hardware and API's for it.

I know Bitcoin is intending to support two-factor authentication but please consider supporting the latest biometric technology as well due to the ease of use factor.


People will probably find a way to hack those as well ,no?
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February 19, 2014, 10:43:10 AM
 #97

Using altcoins will never be safe, cause it's almost impossible to analyse all the code, best effort would be to understand the risk and be ready for trouble.

Exchange,Coin, Pool Comparision and Ratings: http://anycrypto.com
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February 20, 2014, 12:56:46 PM
 #98

Using altcoins will never be safe, cause it's almost impossible to analyse all the code, best effort would be to understand the risk and be ready for trouble.

Bitcoin once was like that and now look at what it has become.

On a mission to make Bitcointalk.org Marketplace a safer place to Buy/Sell/Trade
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February 25, 2014, 08:16:51 AM
 #99

Is there some list of indicators that certain altcoin is scam and other is not? (Except Premining, and Instamining?)

Exchange,Coin, Pool Comparision and Ratings: http://anycrypto.com
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March 07, 2014, 08:16:13 AM
 #100

Is there some list of indicators that certain altcoin is scam and other is not? (Except Premining, and Instamining?)

You'll never know it's a scam or not, it all depends on the integrity of the developer. code also needs to be well analyzed for invulnerability
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March 29, 2014, 02:40:14 AM
 #101

first time to reply on a post written by hero member,  it's my honor

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April 02, 2014, 11:54:09 AM
 #102

Is there some list of indicators that certain altcoin is scam and other is not? (Except Premining, and Instamining?)

There are more shitcoins than scam coins nowadays. Someone finds an idea, fork a coin and call it revolutionary, 3rd gen, 4th gen.. Take the case of Auroracoin, spaincoin, siliconvalley coin, hongkong coin.
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April 13, 2014, 03:53:01 AM
 #103

It is not wrong to be conservative. The possibility is that people miss a lot of fun and chances of profit by adopting this attitude. Specifically, it is right not to install risky software on real personal computer.
Agree, if so, our computer is easy to be attacked, that all the things we are not protected by computer, there are risks of leakage and the attack. This feel alarmed might as well give up this coin, the author will certainly consider this, hope to be able to improve technically perfect his. Let the fans can rest assured.

Arbiz Platform██  ██  █
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April 13, 2014, 03:08:13 PM
 #104

Is there some list of indicators that certain altcoin is scam and other is not? (Except Premining, and Instamining?)
no ,but you can  make one  Smiley

..C..
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........Finally C is .........
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       ............            ............
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May 05, 2014, 10:49:01 AM
 #105

Is there some list of indicators that certain altcoin is scam and other is not? (Except Premining, and Instamining?)

Even Bitcoin is premined.

P.S.: Polemic intended
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May 11, 2014, 03:07:08 AM
 #106

It is the best thread I have readed in the forum. There is too much scams here. Thanks for your post.

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May 27, 2014, 05:56:34 PM
 #107

I don't know much about technicalities of blockchain safety, but want to say after seeing legions of new coins arising: "may the best coin(s) win!" , whenever that will be known - somewhere in the future Wink

FREEDOM
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June 04, 2014, 10:03:57 AM
 #108

Using Google Authenticator as a 2way authentication for exchangers will keep you out of trouble, and your coins will be safe. As for the wallets, they have to be kept on a clean PC wich is not used for mining, with a solid antivirus, used with caution when downloading anything new.
It`s an honour for me too to reply on a hero member`s thread!:)

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June 12, 2014, 12:31:06 PM
 #109

Always safety first people! You dont want to lose all your BTC's.
Google authenticator - Clean PC - antivirus - and make very difficult passwords you only save on a piece of paper.
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June 24, 2014, 02:41:17 AM
 #110

dedicate a computer for just use with crypto, don't use for general purpose browsing...  or posting to BTT..
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July 09, 2014, 01:45:40 AM
 #111

Good read. Security should always be a top priority with crypto currency.

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July 28, 2014, 03:16:43 PM
 #112

These are really good points from Gavin, thanks!

The problem altcoins and new block-chain still have place in the digital currency scene as they address issues that bitcoin don't or do (or at least try to do) certain things more efficiently. Like shorter confirmation time or smart contracts.
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August 03, 2014, 08:52:16 PM
 #113

I really appreciate this thread! Also, if you have mining equipment, don't use a wallet on the same machine. I basically don't have anything on my mining computers except a bare OS and the actual mining software.
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August 28, 2014, 08:07:24 AM
 #114

I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)



I would say you nailed this one bullseye with one shot. I think your real concern isn't our "safety" it's yours. Sooner or later one of these alt-chains are going to replace Bitcoin if Bitcoin doesn't do some seriously needed updating and improvements.

You know it, I know it and so does everyone else.

Sometimes the truth isn't all warm and fuzzy, sometimes it's just plain brutal.

+1

I think the updating and improvements of Bitcoin has referred to some commercial value like Bitpay which the bitcoin is commitment to keep secure and more valuable, indeed, the payment of Bitpay has become popular in North American such as Newegg in Canada.
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September 08, 2014, 10:33:48 PM
 #115

I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)



I would say you nailed this one bullseye with one shot. I think your real concern isn't our "safety" it's yours. Sooner or later one of these alt-chains are going to replace Bitcoin if Bitcoin doesn't do some seriously needed updating and improvements.

You know it, I know it and so does everyone else.

Sometimes the truth isn't all warm and fuzzy, sometimes it's just plain brutal.

+1

I think the updating and improvements of Bitcoin has referred to some commercial value like Bitpay which the bitcoin is commitment to keep secure and more valuable, indeed, the payment of Bitpay has become popular in North American such as Newegg in Canada.

is the Newegg rly that popular in Canada bro ?

~CfA~

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September 09, 2014, 01:02:45 PM
 #116

One would think that someone who even tries to code knows to rather not say such things to programmers, lol Smiley
true talk and straight forward   
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September 11, 2014, 04:54:37 AM
 #117

Thank you for making everyone aware about this alternate blockchain confirmation.This can bring a lot of advantage as we will be safe from using such processing methods.There are a lot of other payment processors which recently been turned into scam.I would b cautious to use this website in future.
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September 21, 2014, 06:13:09 PM
 #118

3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

Yes haha
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September 22, 2014, 07:28:59 AM
 #119

3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

Yes haha

Why so?
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September 25, 2014, 01:50:29 AM
 #120

what i really concern is that virus. about the safety we can use different passwords but the virus, we cannot avoid it cause some download document carry virus.
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September 28, 2014, 04:46:16 PM
 #121

Thanks Gavin Andresen Much appreciated.

Spend GCN at World of electronics Transfer files at www.gfile.us 10k free per transfer Smiley
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October 04, 2014, 01:28:08 AM
 #122

i'm always worried when a new feature is released for an altcoin and this feature doesn't pass the whole sanity check process
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October 27, 2014, 07:31:18 PM
 #123

most people forget that "fork" doesn't mean "permanently branched away from" - for example, if enough people decide that SolidCoin is better because of the more frequent retargets, that's a change that can be rolled into the official client at some point. Forking the block chain is permanent, forking the project to experiment with new features isn't

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November 11, 2014, 02:47:31 AM
 #124

It just feel like Gavin is a modest and cautious master who always brings a brief but in-depth suggestion to us. It deserves a try when you are interested in a new cryptocurrency and keep calm on it.
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November 11, 2014, 06:43:14 AM
 #125

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November 11, 2014, 07:55:00 AM
 #126

It just feel like Gavin is a modest and cautious master who always brings a brief but in-depth suggestion to us. It deserves a try when you are interested in a new cryptocurrency and keep calm on it.
+1 for Gavin

Никогда колени
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November 12, 2014, 11:08:19 AM
 #127

It just feel like Gavin is a modest and cautious master who always brings a brief but in-depth suggestion to us. It deserves a try when you are interested in a new cryptocurrency and keep calm on it.
+1 for Gavin
for sure!
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February 26, 2015, 05:30:03 PM
 #128

Why would anyone try alternative blockchains?

1. No, it's a scam 100%
2 - read 1
3. no, read 1.

Thank you for advice, but there is no worry if you "don't touch too much".


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The Gold Miner


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March 06, 2015, 10:20:39 AM
 #129

Fail to plan = plan to fail


-I'd rather be mining
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March 13, 2015, 02:11:46 PM
 #130

Good one,
But the only safe is VM with VMware or vagrant
I keep my coins safe,blockchain is only for fun I think.
I'm using it for small amount of coins

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March 24, 2015, 10:21:22 AM
 #131

In the next sic months many big investors will let darkcoin and start to use Navajo system to send their many.Darkcoin was the first one but it is not brilliant.

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June 25, 2015, 03:56:41 PM
 #132

Thanks for the information.really helps.
Today bitcoin has widely expanded that we cant believe each and everything on everyone.

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July 03, 2015, 10:44:11 AM
 #133

Future is looking very bright for btc

Maryjanecoin.org
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August 21, 2015, 07:16:50 PM
 #134

nice, I was looking for alternatives other than using
bitcoin wallet blockchain

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August 24, 2015, 04:24:02 PM
 #135

yes, Gavin, please be safe with your XT fork!  Grin

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September 07, 2015, 01:05:04 AM
 #136

oh the hypocrisy of Gavin being the OP  Embarrassed
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September 09, 2015, 09:37:30 AM
 #137

oh the hypocrisy of Gavin being the OP  Embarrassed

Well, quite ironic indeed Smiley.
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September 09, 2015, 07:37:55 PM
 #138

This might be off topic, but reading through these posts from 2011 has me asking the question: when the fuck did everyone on this board stop being able to write English correctly?
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September 11, 2015, 04:40:36 PM
 #139

No harm in taking every precaution with new software involving money.
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March 09, 2016, 09:15:22 PM
 #140

Quote
I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.

Very valuable material- Thank you Gavin

ALL escrow is signed!
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March 29, 2016, 06:06:30 PM
 #141

I understand alt-chains and the need for them but that 20% is scary, Gavin. But like Kano said, It is open source." Lets just hope Antpool doesnt get crazy.
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April 12, 2016, 08:10:25 AM
 #142

plz provide me a brief knowledge related to alt coins in a simple way...
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April 21, 2016, 03:44:47 PM
 #143

But why we must use virtual machine, because then we must use different OS from host OS ? If we use Windows, we must use Linux then.  Wink
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May 22, 2016, 03:19:39 PM
 #144

oh the hypocrisy of Gavin being the OP  Embarrassed

Well, quite ironic indeed Smiley.

timestamp is ominous 2

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June 03, 2016, 07:57:45 PM
 #145

I  agree with you . That's partly why I haven't messed with the alt chains. I even mentioned this on the announcement thread for lxcoin but it got drowned out with all the excitement about it. Angry Angry
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June 28, 2016, 07:28:21 AM
 #146

example ?
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July 23, 2016, 10:29:08 AM
 #147

Thank you Brother, Nice advice.

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August 06, 2016, 03:49:12 AM
 #148

Question  from a dummy here, by alternative block chain do you mean the block chains some alt coins use and do any alt coins use the same blockchain as bitcoin?
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August 12, 2016, 02:03:21 AM
 #149

He is talking about a hidden hard fork.  You can clone a coin and change nothing but the merkle and basically create a new coin with the same characteristics as the original, but the chain is new.  Conceivably the person could then control that chain and alter TX's to their liking.  It is possible with newer coins, but older ones would be harder to fool enough people.
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August 19, 2016, 01:07:12 PM
 #150

Have you heard about DECENT? It's a decentralized content distribution platform.
Join our Slack channel and discuss the network's abilities with our community!


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August 20, 2016, 04:31:48 AM
 #151

I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.




I am not very worried about their safety , I am more support to enhance their convenience, so that ordinary people more able to accept them .

Never give up, Never lose the opportunity to succe
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August 24, 2016, 09:41:19 PM
 #152

I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.



NICE TIPS

This's a must read for everyone!

1) Now in 2016, lots of alternative block-chains use usb thumb sticks with a bootable OS with the wallet pre-installed. You can then save private keys on the usb stick keeping them safe from other apps. These are a great way to stay safe and organized. With exchanges supporting all kinds of hard-forks, some of which include hard-forking away your private keys, you have to have easy access to your coins at anytime.

2) Learn to use a block explorer.


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October 16, 2016, 09:16:23 AM
 #153

on what kind of coins is this applicable
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November 06, 2016, 06:16:49 AM
 #154

Good ... (y)   

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November 12, 2016, 05:01:55 AM
 #155

I thought there is new blockchain bec it says " be safe" then saw the date and I realized this post were about those old days of blockchain. I guess, blockcain is fine now and being still a newbie, security measures are strong. Just dont forget to back up and download paper wallet just in case something went wrong. We have to be careful because its about money. Right?
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November 21, 2016, 12:41:42 AM
 #156

whether altcoin recommended for mine
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December 11, 2016, 01:38:40 AM
 #157

yeah me too. When I first knew about bitcoin I was curious how it work, so everyday I came to read some stuffs on how to earn money without being scammed.

Nice post. Thanks

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December 18, 2016, 10:26:06 PM
 #158

Wow great info for people to read. Im fairly new to using blockchains and this is great information. I agree with changing passphrases every site you use. I would like to add make sure you run antivirus softwares and firewalls too. Overall great info!! Peace Love and Crypto!!

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December 24, 2016, 06:49:16 AM
 #159

on what kind of coins is this applicable
blockchain to store or can say bitcoin bitcoin wallet


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December 24, 2016, 06:51:26 AM
 #160

bitcoin is d best
yes indeed bitcoin is the best coin in the digital world as it is today, traffic bitcoin which continue to climb, make hunting more excited bitcoin


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December 27, 2016, 09:28:01 PM
 #161

What alternative blockchains are you using it? I only use blockchain.info

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January 18, 2017, 01:05:21 PM
 #162

I thought there is new blockchain bec it says " be safe" then saw the date and I realized this post were about those old days of blockchain. I guess, blockcain is fine now and being still a newbie, security measures are strong. Just dont forget to back up and download paper wallet just in case something went wrong. We have to be careful because its about money. Right?

And I recently got hacked. And all because I lightly to safety. Now everywhere all levels of safety included. And put passwords complex and setup authorization 2fa and even confirmation by phone.
Only bitter experience teaches treated with seriousness to more security! Be carefully my friends!



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January 22, 2017, 07:50:12 PM
 #163

Bitbay are about to release a rolling peg

I say buy coins with proper tec behind them!

David Zimbeck is crypto's Bill Gates. He's created BitHalo, NightTrader, 1st true decentralised market, crypto's only double deposit smart contracts (trustless), cold staking and pay via email.
Bitbay is his coin and will explode once he has finished created another crypto 1st which is a rolling peg. All to be finished within 2 months.

 I'm expecting big gains once the rolling peg is implemented.
Everyone will jump into bitbay to hold onto their assists during dumps. It's going to be huge!

It's going to be a huge thing! All the investment companies that deal with Bitcoin will be buying bitbay for this reason! We are talking possible billions of dollars

If I correctly understood you, then Bitbay it crypto currency which shall appear soon? And at what exchange plan it to sell? And whether it is possible to learn more information on it somewhere? If everything is as you speak, then I too not against to get profit.



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January 30, 2017, 07:20:28 PM
 #164

if you have large amount of btc than you must generate address with multiple sign keys start with 3 instead of 1 than you only install bitcoin wallet in your machine and store btc their and don't use and install any thing in that machine this is best way to secure your btc.

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February 11, 2017, 08:09:55 PM
 #165

Yes actually the most secure is to install bitcoin wallet on your computer!
Just stayed Backup every day to keep watch if our computer is damaged
Nothing is safer than Bitcoin wallet in addition to personal computers
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February 12, 2017, 11:38:14 AM
 #166

Yes actually the most secure is to install bitcoin wallet on your computer!
Just stayed Backup every day to keep watch if our computer is damaged
Nothing is safer than Bitcoin wallet in addition to personal computers


I also believe that the most safe way to store them is the local budgets. But I still really like the idea of storing them on your phone. Also it turns out local purse, only always close



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March 09, 2017, 08:06:05 AM
 #167

No harm in taking every precaution with new software involving money.
Yeah, indeed we must use a system or piece of software that does indeed provide good security in money that we have. But not all new software provides the same security, so as to be able to get a proven software security then we should be able to do a test run in it.You never affected using some software that offers a convenience thing, because sometimes the software only give something useless. find the software you need, not you want!!


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April 01, 2017, 06:40:36 AM
 #168

yeah I too so, always use a different password on every transaction and I also use a different password on every account I





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EthSports
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April 17, 2017, 02:38:07 AM
 #169

Having two different passwords for each alt-coin or website isn't that hard. You could do all the generating on an offline computer (where you probably have your offline transaction signing bitcoin client, like Armory). All new passwords for new websites, get to be typed by hand. 12 to 16 characters ought to be enough for a start, then when you get more serious about it, you can extend your password or passphrase length. I consider my office desk and my home table secure enough that I can write down whatever password I needed on paper. Offline. Or, as Bruce Schneier says, stick it in your real life wallet.
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May 11, 2017, 01:26:44 AM
 #170

Using an alternative crypto key client would be a great way to get many people to install hidden viruses targeting Bitcoin users.

Some people have only one computer and it definitely sucks.

Fortunately a few decades ago they found a virtual machine. Now anyone can have as many computers and OS as they like
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May 11, 2017, 03:56:22 AM
 #171

I use separate passwords for each wallet i have so that if one password gets compromised, my other passwords are still safe. I also use a password generator so that my passwords will be harder to decrypt.
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May 11, 2017, 05:06:29 PM
 #172

Some people only have one computer and that must suck. Fortunately I have multiple so I can use some of my alt-miners to do this safely.
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May 21, 2017, 06:34:16 AM
 #173

Some people only have one computer and that must suck. Fortunately I have multiple so I can use some of my alt-miners to do this safely.
Good afternoon pack a little question from me who might be a good suggestion for me ..
Has many alt-miners do you have no trouble in running the system?
Or you ask someone to work for you?
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May 25, 2017, 09:12:22 AM
 #174

Nice posts what I see and good topic to be safe in altcoins. If you read the whitepaper and test the code what the altcoin has, than you can lear a lot about it. June first we are launching a new project Dcorp.it (if you want I would be happy to tell more about it) but we focust on transparanty in every possible way. That's one of the importants things I would look at when to invest in a new project. Myself I invested in Mobilego they raist more than 40 million. Good luck!
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May 25, 2017, 10:08:23 AM
 #175

I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.




Thank you Gavin for this piece of information. As the community is growing there will be less and less members that are computer literate and won't be able to do their own due diligence. I am one of them, I can't read code. Do you have a specific Alt-coin in mind ? Do you think that the top 10 network are safe ?

Also the early adopter excitement is what keep this going on. If only bitcoin was available, then new comers might refuse to pay tremendous amount for 100 SAT when they know some early adopter have thousands of bitcoins. And new comers give a shot to a "cheap network" ... just like you did few years ago.

Gavin if you read this it would awesome if you could reply

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You want to learn more about Bitcoin but there is too much information available, but you don't have enough time, but you don't know who to trust, but you don't know which website is trustworthy. Come to thecryptoconsultant.com to get you started safely with Bitcoin!
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May 25, 2017, 04:44:01 PM
 #176

I haven't seen anybody post about what would be my biggest worry if I were trying out alternative block chains. I realize this may be perceived as "Gavin is FUD'ding anything that isn't bitcoin!"  (FUD == Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)  But I think some of you might be forgetting some basic computer security fundamentals in the excitement to be early adopters.

When I first heard about bitcoin, my questions were:

1) Can it possibly work (do the ideas for how it works make sense)?
2) Is it a scam?
3) If it is not a scam, could it open my computer up to viruses/trojans if I run it?

I answered those questions by:

1) Reading and understanding Satoshi's whitepaper.  Then thinking about it for a day or two and reading it again.
2) Finding out everything I could about the project.  I read every forum thread here (there were probably under a hundred threads back then) and read Satoshi's initial postings on the crypto mailing list.
3) Downloaded and skimmed the source code to see if it looked vulnerable to buffer overflow or other remotely exploitable attacks.

If I were going to experiment with an alternative block-chain, I'd go through the same process again. But I'm an old conservative fuddy-duddy.

If you want to take a risk on a brand-new alternative block-chain, I'd strongly suggest that you:

1) Run the software in a virtual machine or on a machine that doesn't contain anything valuable.
2) Don't invest more money or time than you can afford to lose.
3) Use a different passphrase at every exchange site.



I think this old post of Gavin Anderson is somewhat misleading. Regarding current situation with bitcoin, it is definitely necessary and absolutely  possible to switch to a brand new chain without the risks Gavin is frightening us about them.

1- People can simply switch the chain using exactly the same code base that bitcoin uses now!

2- This switch can take place with some minor improvements in the code (not necessarily with small impacts) which can be verified by public and
    maintained easily in a parallel thread with the mainstream development process.

And what would be the catch?

1- We can fix the ASIC nightmare by injecting some 1 GB or so memory footprint to SHA256. Actually I have an Idea for this.

2- We can reconsider block time, block size, ... in accordance with the state of the art.

3- More importantly, we can get rid of miner corporates' and core devs dominance at the same time.

We may fail, not because of security issues (bitcoin code base that we eagerly use is secure more than enough) but because of lack of enthusiasm and commitment. No worries, I'm here for a while, waiting for people who are sensitive enough to become bored with the current 'Game of Thrones' play in the btc space and wise enough to stick with the code rather than trying to imitate Vitalik like a fake cartoon.
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May 26, 2017, 08:34:07 AM
 #177

I missed that is was a post from 2011  Roll Eyes . I mean Altcoins have changes a lot ... a lot. Gavin's point of view probably too.

You want to learn more about Bitcoin but there is too much information available, but you don't have enough time, but you don't know who to trust, but you don't know which website is trustworthy. Come to thecryptoconsultant.com to get you started safely with Bitcoin!
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June 02, 2017, 07:31:53 PM
 #178

I totally agree with Gavin's opinion.

Maybe I can add what warren buffet quotes is "Rule No.1: Never lose money Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1.


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June 03, 2017, 06:32:42 AM
 #179

Mr. Gavin, thank you very much for this information.  It's all true, search more and read more. In that way, we will understand and learn more before we get scammed.

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June 03, 2017, 06:15:07 PM
 #180

Just note that there does not even have to be a change in code, simply recompiling and relaunching would create a secondary chain.  People need to grasp the mechanics of the background process to understand everything or they will get washed under one day.

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June 05, 2017, 07:13:02 PM
 #181

I missed that is was a post from 2011  Roll Eyes . I mean Altcoins have changes a lot ... a lot. Gavin's point of view probably too.

Exactly this thread was started about 6 years ago and a lot have evolved from the cryptocurrency world and so I think we just need to pick out the relevant points that are valid for the present and discard the others but I won't underestimate the important insight he's given all of us.



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June 06, 2017, 08:30:58 AM
 #182

yeah I too so, always use a different password on every transaction and I also use a different password on every account I




So like that, I just found out if it should be a password. Thank you for the information Smiley

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June 07, 2017, 08:53:57 AM
 #183

yeah I too so, always use a different password on every transaction and I also use a different password on every account I




So like that, I just found out if it should be a password. Thank you for the information Smiley

Is it safe ?
If you have safe method of storing password than once a 3-6 month is enough to change it, if you have not safe method for storing password changing it everyday or every time you done transaction gives you more chances to make mistakes.

Some old wallet implementations had problem with generating random k for Bitcoin transaction and changing bitcoin account and key after each transaction was reasonable that days, but it was long time ago.

Changing password every time looks just like much work, if you will be tired you will make mistake.

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June 07, 2017, 01:01:52 PM
 #184

This is terrific information. Garving. i wanted to join the bitcoin train a year ago but i was skeptical and paranoid about malware and virus. This is has given the chance on knowing hw to let it work