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Author Topic: I'm not seeing miners leave in hordes...  (Read 10687 times)
RandyFolds
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September 20, 2011, 04:56:44 AM
 #81


I just don't see the benefit of spending electricity on something of dubious value. Scientists have access to all sorts of computers, including clusters of off-the-shelf PCs connected by ETHERNET, as well as actual supercomputers. They don't need my $20 in wasted electricity per month. Besides, I'm firmly convinced that cancer has been cured several times over. They just won't let us have the cure, since chemotherapy is so profitable. And let's not forget that the Georgia Guidestones call for a world population of only 500 million people -- curing a killer like cancer would be counter-productive to that goal.

Long story short -- I'm not a sucker. They don't need my computer, or my electricity.


Why remain ignorant.  If you don't want to fold then don't but why make up claims that are false.

Folding isn't dubious.  It has already resulted in numerous breakthroughs.

Building and running a supercomputer is expensive insanely expensive.  Folding has a combined computational power of 6404 TFLOP.

To put that into perspective the most powerful supercomputer in the world is ~8000 TFLOPs.  The 2nd largest is ~4700 TFLOPS.

No international medical research program in the world even makes the top 100 supercomputer list ( sub 80 TFLOPs).

Simply put without access to Folding @ Home the computational power available to protein researchers would be maybe 1% of what they have access to.  The amount of simulations completed this year w/ Folding program would have taken a century.   More likely without access to computational power that would lead to discovers in a researcher's lifetime the research would never even be undertaken.

The downside, once a major cure is found from one the results that thousands of people put their computer to work on there will be some big pharma outfit come in, patent the drug or process and then turn around and charge those same helping hands a 5000 percent markup for access to the cure.

Even if a cure is found, it doesn't mean that there isn't stuff left to discover. Besides, Folding@Home is about protein folding, not curing cancer.

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September 20, 2011, 05:16:54 AM
 #82


I just don't see the benefit of spending electricity on something of dubious value. Scientists have access to all sorts of computers, including clusters of off-the-shelf PCs connected by ETHERNET, as well as actual supercomputers. They don't need my $20 in wasted electricity per month. Besides, I'm firmly convinced that cancer has been cured several times over. They just won't let us have the cure, since chemotherapy is so profitable. And let's not forget that the Georgia Guidestones call for a world population of only 500 million people -- curing a killer like cancer would be counter-productive to that goal.

Long story short -- I'm not a sucker. They don't need my computer, or my electricity.


Why remain ignorant.  If you don't want to fold then don't but why make up claims that are false.

Folding isn't dubious.  It has already resulted in numerous breakthroughs.

Building and running a supercomputer is expensive insanely expensive.  Folding has a combined computational power of 6404 TFLOP.

To put that into perspective the most powerful supercomputer in the world is ~8000 TFLOPs.  The 2nd largest is ~4700 TFLOPS.

No international medical research program in the world even makes the top 100 supercomputer list ( sub 80 TFLOPs).

Simply put without access to Folding @ Home the computational power available to protein researchers would be maybe 1% of what they have access to.  The amount of simulations completed this year w/ Folding program would have taken a century.   More likely without access to computational power that would lead to discovers in a researcher's lifetime the research would never even be undertaken.

The downside, once a major cure is found from one the results that thousands of people put their computer to work on there will be some big pharma outfit come in, patent the drug or process and then turn around and charge those same helping hands a 5000 percent markup for access to the cure.

Even if a cure is found, it doesn't mean that there isn't stuff left to discover. Besides, Folding@Home is about protein folding, not curing cancer.

Knowing how certain proteins act could in fact lead to a cure or more directed treatments. As with all new treatments however if they cannot be made into a profit center you will never see them come to market. Case in point there are several totally natural treatments that have shown to be very positive in the treatment of cancer which you won't even find current trials on because no big pharma will back those trials because there is no potential patent they will be able to enforce.
RandyFolds
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September 20, 2011, 04:34:38 PM
 #83


I just don't see the benefit of spending electricity on something of dubious value. Scientists have access to all sorts of computers, including clusters of off-the-shelf PCs connected by ETHERNET, as well as actual supercomputers. They don't need my $20 in wasted electricity per month. Besides, I'm firmly convinced that cancer has been cured several times over. They just won't let us have the cure, since chemotherapy is so profitable. And let's not forget that the Georgia Guidestones call for a world population of only 500 million people -- curing a killer like cancer would be counter-productive to that goal.

Long story short -- I'm not a sucker. They don't need my computer, or my electricity.


Why remain ignorant.  If you don't want to fold then don't but why make up claims that are false.

Folding isn't dubious.  It has already resulted in numerous breakthroughs.

Building and running a supercomputer is expensive insanely expensive.  Folding has a combined computational power of 6404 TFLOP.

To put that into perspective the most powerful supercomputer in the world is ~8000 TFLOPs.  The 2nd largest is ~4700 TFLOPS.

No international medical research program in the world even makes the top 100 supercomputer list ( sub 80 TFLOPs).

Simply put without access to Folding @ Home the computational power available to protein researchers would be maybe 1% of what they have access to.  The amount of simulations completed this year w/ Folding program would have taken a century.   More likely without access to computational power that would lead to discovers in a researcher's lifetime the research would never even be undertaken.

The downside, once a major cure is found from one the results that thousands of people put their computer to work on there will be some big pharma outfit come in, patent the drug or process and then turn around and charge those same helping hands a 5000 percent markup for access to the cure.

Even if a cure is found, it doesn't mean that there isn't stuff left to discover. Besides, Folding@Home is about protein folding, not curing cancer.

Knowing how certain proteins act could in fact lead to a cure or more directed treatments. As with all new treatments however if they cannot be made into a profit center you will never see them come to market. Case in point there are several totally natural treatments that have shown to be very positive in the treatment of cancer which you won't even find current trials on because no big pharma will back those trials because there is no potential patent they will be able to enforce.

You have no idea how drug development works. I have spent the last 8 years throwing myself at a prostate cancer vaccine synthesized from a marine snail's blood. We won't hand it over to bayer to be quashed, and so we are all going broke floating it as far as we can. You won't find it on current trials, but it has been into trials on four occasions now. There is most definitely an enforceable patent. 'Big Pharma' wants it bad.

Once again...protein folding is about protein interaction. Yes, that information can help lead to a cure, but to suggest it IS the cure is just foolish. Fuckin' Biochemistry...how does it work?

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JBDive
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September 20, 2011, 08:06:32 PM
 #84


I just don't see the benefit of spending electricity on something of dubious value. Scientists have access to all sorts of computers, including clusters of off-the-shelf PCs connected by ETHERNET, as well as actual supercomputers. They don't need my $20 in wasted electricity per month. Besides, I'm firmly convinced that cancer has been cured several times over. They just won't let us have the cure, since chemotherapy is so profitable. And let's not forget that the Georgia Guidestones call for a world population of only 500 million people -- curing a killer like cancer would be counter-productive to that goal.

Long story short -- I'm not a sucker. They don't need my computer, or my electricity.


Why remain ignorant.  If you don't want to fold then don't but why make up claims that are false.

Folding isn't dubious.  It has already resulted in numerous breakthroughs.

Building and running a supercomputer is expensive insanely expensive.  Folding has a combined computational power of 6404 TFLOP.

To put that into perspective the most powerful supercomputer in the world is ~8000 TFLOPs.  The 2nd largest is ~4700 TFLOPS.

No international medical research program in the world even makes the top 100 supercomputer list ( sub 80 TFLOPs).

Simply put without access to Folding @ Home the computational power available to protein researchers would be maybe 1% of what they have access to.  The amount of simulations completed this year w/ Folding program would have taken a century.   More likely without access to computational power that would lead to discovers in a researcher's lifetime the research would never even be undertaken.

The downside, once a major cure is found from one the results that thousands of people put their computer to work on there will be some big pharma outfit come in, patent the drug or process and then turn around and charge those same helping hands a 5000 percent markup for access to the cure.

Even if a cure is found, it doesn't mean that there isn't stuff left to discover. Besides, Folding@Home is about protein folding, not curing cancer.

Knowing how certain proteins act could in fact lead to a cure or more directed treatments. As with all new treatments however if they cannot be made into a profit center you will never see them come to market. Case in point there are several totally natural treatments that have shown to be very positive in the treatment of cancer which you won't even find current trials on because no big pharma will back those trials because there is no potential patent they will be able to enforce.

You have no idea how drug development works. I have spent the last 8 years throwing myself at a prostate cancer vaccine synthesized from a marine snail's blood. We won't hand it over to bayer to be quashed, and so we are all going broke floating it as far as we can. You won't find it on current trials, but it has been into trials on four occasions now. There is most definitely an enforceable patent. 'Big Pharma' wants it bad.

Once again...protein folding is about protein interaction. Yes, that information can help lead to a cure, but to suggest it IS the cure is just foolish. Fuckin' Biochemistry...how does it work?

First off I don't really feel like being insulted by somebody who doesn't know one thing about me. Second off I have dug into multiple "cures" for certain types of cancer that have shown great promise in the lab and even results in limited trials but that research is dead in the water because of no funding by big pharma into more natural cures. I have spoke with the researchers themselves and asked about further trials and was point blank told that any further trials on a larger group would not happen by them because of the lack of funding, their words are below since this was just a few weeks back:

" there is no patent on it. This means that if some company spent millions on clinical trials, anyone else could come in and sell it cheaper because they had no patent costs to recoup.

A change in the law is needed so that if some company performs clinical trials, they should be able to obtain an exclusive right to sell. Would you go into business to lose money, no matter if you helped people?"


As to protein folding thank you for admitting I was correct.
RandyFolds
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September 20, 2011, 08:41:15 PM
 #85



Fella, I wasn't trying to insult you. I was just pointing out that curing cancer is just a small implication of discerning protein interactions. I am currently pouring way too much of my time and money into a business where I am losing it all and have very little prospect to recover it...yet I am still here, plucking limpets out of the ocean and purifying their blood, running my diagnostics, and praying that in the end, I don't just end up bankrupt and empty-handed.











But hey, I might cure cancer. What are you up to today?


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September 21, 2011, 12:09:33 AM
 #86

Most miners made a medium-term or long-term investment in hardware.  As with the housing market, you won't see big-time miners quit just because the price drops for a couple of weeks, or even months.  They're invested long-term and have absolutely no choice but to continue mining to pay off their hardware investment.

You will see the little guy with a card or two in his spare computer quit, or just mine out of curiosity for a couple of weeks and then stop.  I'm one of those guys who got bored after having mined a few coins.  I quit mining also because of how much pools rip you off - all of the associated third parties surrounding bitcoin give this currency a crap name.

-Foo OUT!
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September 21, 2011, 12:50:15 AM
 #87



You have no idea how drug development works. I have spent the last 8 years throwing myself at a prostate cancer vaccine synthesized from a marine snail's blood. We won't hand it over to bayer to be quashed, and so we are all going broke floating it as far as we can. You won't find it on current trials, but it has been into trials on four occasions now. There is most definitely an enforceable patent. 'Big Pharma' wants it bad.

Once again...protein folding is about protein interaction. Yes, that information can help lead to a cure, but to suggest it IS the cure is just foolish. Fuckin' Biochemistry...how does it work?



You are talking closet scale equipment. He's got the equivalent of a 20-lamp grow in 800 square feet, not sure of the shape, and 20ft ceilings.

I worked on a 16x1000w op in about 2000ft^2 and we kept temps below 80 with a 5-ton AC and 2 12" CanFans (good brand, but un-throttlable) and two 10" centrifugal fans in and out (with a fair amount of filtration resistance). We upped it to 20 lamps and it started running about 85, just over the capacity of the AC. The power bill was phenomenal, and 2/3rds of the room was on 12/12. Goddamn that place made some money. Puts bitcoin at $30 to shame. Then the sheriffs came and cut down all our children and ended up dismissing the charges after doing about a hundred grand in damage. Good ole' fuckin' amuuurica.

Thought these two posts were a little at odds with each other: 8 years going broke on prostrate cancer and something else that made money. 
RandyFolds
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September 21, 2011, 01:02:18 AM
 #88



You have no idea how drug development works. I have spent the last 8 years throwing myself at a prostate cancer vaccine synthesized from a marine snail's blood. We won't hand it over to bayer to be quashed, and so we are all going broke floating it as far as we can. You won't find it on current trials, but it has been into trials on four occasions now. There is most definitely an enforceable patent. 'Big Pharma' wants it bad.

Once again...protein folding is about protein interaction. Yes, that information can help lead to a cure, but to suggest it IS the cure is just foolish. Fuckin' Biochemistry...how does it work?



You are talking closet scale equipment. He's got the equivalent of a 20-lamp grow in 800 square feet, not sure of the shape, and 20ft ceilings.

I worked on a 16x1000w op in about 2000ft^2 and we kept temps below 80 with a 5-ton AC and 2 12" CanFans (good brand, but un-throttlable) and two 10" centrifugal fans in and out (with a fair amount of filtration resistance). We upped it to 20 lamps and it started running about 85, just over the capacity of the AC. The power bill was phenomenal, and 2/3rds of the room was on 12/12. Goddamn that place made some money. Puts bitcoin at $30 to shame. Then the sheriffs came and cut down all our children and ended up dismissing the charges after doing about a hundred grand in damage. Good ole' fuckin' amuuurica.

Thought these two posts were a little at odds with each other: 8 years going broke on prostrate cancer and something else that made money. 

Are they at odds? How so? Worked on, not owned, my good sir. A gigantic difference, indeed.

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September 21, 2011, 01:19:12 AM
 #89

ok, difference noted.
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September 21, 2011, 12:00:35 PM
 #90

Some miners leave in hordes to play WoW.


Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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September 21, 2011, 04:04:01 PM
 #91

If the BTC price stays this low for long enough, I'll be leaving for WoW as well. For the horde!
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September 22, 2011, 06:36:03 PM
 #92

Most miners made a medium-term or long-term investment in hardware.  As with the housing market, you won't see big-time miners quit just because the price drops for a couple of weeks, or even months.  They're invested long-term and have absolutely no choice but to continue mining to pay off their hardware investment.

You will see the little guy with a card or two in his spare computer quit, or just mine out of curiosity for a couple of weeks and then stop.  I'm one of those guys who got bored after having mined a few coins.  I quit mining also because of how much pools rip you off - all of the associated third parties surrounding bitcoin give this currency a crap name.

-Foo OUT!
Dunno about that. I paid off my hardware costs within a few weeks, factoring in liquidation value of the gfx cards alone. Assuming no liquidation value, my hardware was paid off in full (after electricity costs) within a few months. Then again, I started near the beginning of this year when things just started to really pick up and get ridiculous. Getting in to mining now would be a pretty ballsy (and probably pretty dumb) move when you could simply buy and hold BTC if you're simply interested in making a gamble. Best move now, I believe, would definitely be to sell for BTC. We're in a great time now where BTC's about to have "inflation" halved within a few months at a time where productive use of BTC (that is, for commercial and industrial use) is probably at an all-time high.

Don't mix your coins someone said isn't legal
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September 22, 2011, 09:24:23 PM
 #93

bitcoin mining is like buying the coin in small junks and paying for the coin via hardware cost and electricity bills. For some reason, most people have really hard time understanding this simple concept. Your coins are not free even when you are low life loser and a thief, stealing power from your mom so you can jerk off next  to your "rig".
At those prices and difficulty it has become pointless to mine probably in most of the EU. Lest hope the price of the btc soars or diff drops to 800K or less.

Unplug your rigs and save the planet Smiley

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 22, 2011, 09:43:38 PM
 #94

We're in a great time now where BTC's about to have "inflation" halved within a few months at a time where productive use of BTC (that is, for commercial and industrial use) is probably at an all-time high.

Mining incentive will halve to 25 BTC at the beginning of 2013, not in a few months. If it would halve in the beginning of 2012, I speculate we'd already see a lot less supply on the currency markets.

Commercial and industrial use being at an all time high? That is wild speculation. En contraire, I think "productive use", as you put it, is very low now compared to what we might see next year or 2013.

Your point about the best thing to do for a miner being to sell his rig for BTC is true in my mind.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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September 22, 2011, 11:35:52 PM
 #95

We're in a great time now where BTC's about to have "inflation" halved within a few months at a time where productive use of BTC (that is, for commercial and industrial use) is probably at an all-time high.

Mining incentive will halve to 25 BTC at the beginning of 2013, not in a few months. If it would halve in the beginning of 2012, I speculate we'd already see a lot less supply on the currency markets.

Commercial and industrial use being at an all time high? That is wild speculation. En contraire, I think "productive use", as you put it, is very low now compared to what we might see next year or 2013.

Your point about the best thing to do for a miner being to sell his rig for BTC is true in my mind.
It will halve by December 6, 2012 based on a block every ten minutes. Based on the mean speed of churning out blocks, it will halve by November 25, 2012. So not the beginning of 2013, but still there isn't too much reason to worry about the halving.
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September 23, 2011, 01:17:27 PM
 #96

I am not really worried because my calculations show that I will never get back the value of my investments in the rig Smiley, already put as sunken costs .  Of course unless the bitcoin jumps in value tremendously.
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September 23, 2011, 10:03:48 PM
 #97

I am not really worried because my calculations show that I will never get back the value of my investments in the rig Smiley, already put as sunken costs .  Of course unless the bitcoin jumps in value tremendously.

This will happen, mark my words Wink

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September 24, 2011, 12:33:04 PM
 #98

I am not really worried because my calculations show that I will never get back the value of my investments in the rig Smiley, already put as sunken costs .  Of course unless the bitcoin jumps in value tremendously.

This will happen, mark my words Wink

*marks them*
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